Unemployment Compensation Information for Claimants

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By Ralph Deeds

Unemployment Compensation--Tips for Claimants

The purpose of this document is to provide information which may be useful to individuals who have found themselves in the unfortunate situation of losing their jobs and who may be eligible for unemployment compensation. The following information is based on my experience serving on the Michigan Employment Security Board of Review (appeals) and for the past several years representing claimants in administrative law judge unemployment compensation eligibility appeal hearings. Unemployment compensation regulations throughout the U.S. are similar but vary in a number of important respects from state to state. This information is based solely on my experience in Michigan.


BACKGROUND ON STATE-FEDERAL UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION SYSTEM

Most people find themselves unemployed at some time in their life. Unemployment was not such a problem when the U.S. was an agrarian, small town society where most people had families nearby who could help out in a pinch and where people grew much of their own food. But as the country industrialized and people flocked from the farms to cities to work in factories like Henry Ford's Rouge plant which employed 100,000 at its peak, unemployment became a critical social problem. People were no longer independent farmers living on their own land and growing their own food, but instead they were far from their relatives and dependent on the success of their employer and the good will of their boss for economic security. The federal-state unemployment compensation system was established to help tide people over in periods of involuntary unemployment.

A lot of thought went into the system. It's funded by a tax on employer payrolls. The tax in most states ranges from around one percent of payroll to as high as seven or eight percent of payroll depending on the number of layoffs previously experienced by each employer. In Michigan the maximum tax rate is 10.3 % of wages up to $9,000/ year and the minimum is 0.06%, as of November 2008. This variable tax rate is called experience rating. It's designed to provide an incentive for employers to plan their business to avoid layoffs. The firms with the fewest layoffs are rewarded with having to pay the lowest unemployment compensation tax rate. And, conversely, employers whose employment fluctuates widely, such as those in cyclical industries or in seasonal industries like construction, pay the highest unemployment compensation taxes. Employers don't like to pay high taxes so the experience rating system also provides them an incentive for them to protest unemployment compensation claims filed by their employees.

Another reason underlying unemployment compensation is that it has a counter-cyclical economic effect. That is, when there is a recession and people lose their jobs involuntarily, money is pumped into the economy by unemployment compensation payments to laid off workers, helping to stabilize the national economy or that of a particular state or region.

Like Social Security, Unemployment Compensation was established during the Great Depression in the 1930s, and like Social Security, it has become accepted and, by and large, accomplishes its mission of providing income to assist unemployed workers and provide a boost to the economy during recessions.

COMMENT: If you become involuntarily unemployed you should not hesitate to apply for unemployment compensation. That's what it's for. You are entitled to collect benefits so long as your are eligible, provided you carefully follow the procedures required by the unemployment agency in your state.


DISPUTES OVER ELIGIBILITY FOR UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION ARE QUITE COMMON

However, from the point of view of unemployed workers and employers, the system is far from perfect and disputes over eligibility are common.

In general, employees who have worked long enough to establish eligibility and who are laid off by their employer are eligible for a maximum of 26 weeks of unemployment compensation at an amount less than their previous pay up to a maximum of around $400 per week (in Michigan).

Employees who quit, with certain exceptions, are not eligible.

Employees who are fired for serious misconduct are not eligible.


FOLLOWING THE PRESCRIBED PROCEDURES IS VERY IMPORTANT

Finally, to be eligible claimants must apply for benefits in accordance with procedures and within deadlines established by the state unemployment compensation agency, and they must certify every two weeks that they are available and seeking suitable (jobs they have previously performed) employment and that they did not receive disqualifying earnings during the period. Certification is generally accomplished by telephone. The rules for applying and certifying are generally very strictly enforced by state unemployment agencies. Failure to call in or report in person to certify as required will result in disqualification for two weeks or more of benefits unless there is a compelling reason for failure to do so. Failure to apply within the prescribed deadline after layoff also will result in loss of benefits for the weeks prior to filing absent a compelling reason for failure to do so.

Comment: Many otherwise eligible individuals are disqualified from receiving benefits for which they would otherwise be eligible due to their failure to read and understand and comply with the unemployment agency's rules. Read the rules carefully and make sure you comply with them to the letter. Keep a record of your job search activities such as companies contacted, interviews, etc., so that in the event you are required to show that you are seeking work you will be able to do so.


IF YOU QUIT YOUR JOB

As stated above, the general rule is that if you quit your job you will not be eligible for unemployment compensation. The rule in Michigan and most states is that a reasonable person will find another job before quitting the one he or she has. An exception to rule disqualifying people who quit occurs when there is "good cause for quitting attributable to the employer." What is or is not good cause is a gray area subject to differing interpretations by employment agency examiners and by the courts. In genera, good cause for quitting is something that would cause a reasonable person to quit even though he or she does not have another job. Examples of good reasons are being required to work in unsafe conditions, being asked to violate the law, discrimination, sexual harassment, repeated verbal abuse or physical abuse by a supervisor, bounced pay checks, a significant change in the terms and conditions of your job (e.g. a wage or benefit cut).

Generally speaking, the courts require that before quitting the employee must use the prescribed complaint procedure and give the employer a chance to correct the situation. In Michigan employees are not required to file an OSHA, or discrimination complaint with a state or federal agency before quitting, but they are required to raise the issue with their employer using prescribed procedures and give the employer an opportunity to address the issue before quitting in order to qualify for unemployment compensation. In disputes over good cause for quitting the burden of proof is on the employee to establish that he or she had good cause for quitting attributable to the employer. Generally, this is not easy to do. Most unemployment agency claims examiners and administrative law judges are hard to convince that a reasonable person would not secure another job before quitting, absent serious abuses.

COMMENT: Recently, I represented a claimant in an administrative law judge (referee) hearing who quit because his supervisor repeatedly referred to him as a "terrorist," apparently because he appeared to be of Arabic descent. The claimant asked his supervisor not to refer to him as a terrorist and complained twice with no result to his supervisor's boss. The judge found good cause attributable to the employer for the claimant to quit. Going into the hearing I was not confident that the claimant would be found eligible. We argued at the hearing that calling someone a terrorist, even in jest, had taken on much greater significance since 9/11. The judge agreed. On the other hand there are Michigan court decisions that have said that an employee doesn't have the right to expect a "perfect supervisor" and have excused some pretty sorry supervisory conduct. In most cases, the best advice is to find another job before quitting or don't count on being eligible for unemployment compensation.


IF YOU ARE FIRED

Dismissal for serious misconduct is another disqualifyer for unemployment compensation and another frequent gray area which is a common subject of disputes and appeals. What may seem to an employer as serious misconduct may not amount to misconduct under the unemployment compensation statute or court interpretations of if. In Michigan, the controlling court ruling defines disqualifying misconduct as "wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest." That's a pretty high bar for employers to meet in contested unemployment compensation cases. However, those words leave much room for interpretation and dispute. Generally speaking, misconduct will be found in event of a single serious offense (e.g. theft, drug or alcohol offenses, insubordination, assault or fighting) or repeated minor offenses such as habitual tardiness or excessive absenteeism or other repeated and intentional violations of company rules or policies. Nevertheless, much remains for dispute.

The following is the definition of misconduct adopted by the Michigan Supreme Court in the case of Carter v Employment Security Commission, 364 Mich 538, 541(1961):


"[Misconduct in an unemployment compensation case is] ... conduct evincing such wilful or wanton disregard of an employer's interests as is found in deliberate violations or disregard of standards of behavior which the employer has the right to expect of his employee, or in carelessness or negligence of such degree or recurrence as to manifest equal culpability, wrongful intent or evil design, or to show an intentional and substantial disregard of the employer's interests or of the employee's duties and obligations to his employer. On the other hand,mere inefficiency, unsatisfactory conduct, failure in good performance as the result of inability or incapacity, inadvertancys or ordinary negligence in isolated instances, or good-faith errors in judgment or discretion are not to be deemed 'misconduct' within the meaning of the statute."

Some employers abuse the system by firing employees for alleged misconduct when they need to reduce the work force rather than laying them off because they do not want the employees to collect unemployment compensation against their account and cause their tax rate to go up. In dismissals, the burden of proof is on the employer to establish misconduct.

COMMENT: Don't press your luck. Comply with the rules and policies of your employer and, if you are going to be late or absent, call your employer and let him know. Administrative law judges take a dim view of employees who are absent or late and don't bother to call in. On the other hand, they will find claimants eligible in cases of absence or tardiness due to illness, emergency situations requiring care for children and the like.

Some employers use automatic point systems to discipline for absence or tardiness which do not take into account the reasons for the absence or tardiness. Most judges do not consider automatic point systems valid for establishing misconduct under unemployment compensation statutes. Absence, per se, is not misconduct. Only absence without reasonable cause is misconduct--illness or child care needs, court appearances and the like are not absence without reasonable cause. Of course, the more tardynesses and absences there are, the more skeptical the judges are of the employee and the more likely they are to find misconduct. Medical records and other tangible evidence can be helpful in establishing good cause for absences in unemployment compensation hearings. In Michigan, a court decision has said that in cases where an employee has been absent or tardy many times, the burden shifts from the employer to the employee to establish that his absences should have been excused because of illness or other good reason.


COMMENT: I have represented claimants in many cases fired by their employers for alleged misconduct who have been found eligible for unemployment compensation by administrative law judges. Generally speaking, the employee must have been informed of the rules and the employer must prove the violation by first hand testimony. With few exceptions hearsay evidence is not admissible.

TEMPORARY EMPLOYMENT AGENCIES

The Michigan unemployment statute provides that anyone who is employed by a temporary help firm is obligated to notify the temporary help firm of the termination of an assignment with a client of the temporary help firm within 7 days of the end of the assignment, provided he was notified in writing of this obligation by the temporary help firm before the employee began performing services for the client.

Failure to notify the temporary help firm of the end of an assignment causes many claimants to be disqualified from receiving benefits. Many employees are required to sign several papers when they start an assignment or sign up with a temp agency. They receive a job with a client of the agency and work for months or even years and then are laid off. By then they have forgotten that they were notified of their obligation to notify their temporary agency that their assignment has ended with the result that they are disqualified from receiving benefits.

COMMENT: The requirement to notify temp agencies, in my opinion, is very unfair to claimants and should be stricken from the act. Notifying the temp agency should be the obligation of the client employer, not the employee. Or, at very least, the client employer should be obligated to notify the employee, in writing, at the time the assignment ends, of his or her obligation to call the temp agency within 7 days and inform the agency that their assignment has ended. Moreover, a phone call is sometimes not enough to avoid disqualification. I have seen cases where the temp agency failed to record a phone notification. And some unscrupulous temp firms who have been notified by phone deny in appeal hearings that they have been notified. If I were a temp employee whose assignment came to an end I would follow up my phone call with a notification by a fax or registered letter. The notification provision in the statute is badly in need of change.

EXTENDED UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS REQUIRE WEEKLY REPORTS OF TWO JOB SEARCHES

Claimants who become eligible for extended benefits (beyond 26 weeks, currently and, effective January 1, 2012 20 weeks in Michigan) should take note of the requirement under the Michigan statute that they must provide the Unemployment Insurance Agency with "tangible evidence" of at least two job searches for each week for which they are receiving benefits. The Agency is enforcing this requirement strictly and is terminating extended benefits for claimants who are non-compliant with the job search reporting requirement.


APPEALS PROCEDURES

All states provide for appeals of eligibility determinations by unemployment agencies. You should appeal any decisions which you believe are not in accordance with the law in your state. You don't have to hire a lawyer in order to appeal an agency determination or to appeal a re-determination to an administrative law judge hearing. Administrative law judge decisions may be appealed to the state appeals board without charge and without hiring an attorney. Michigan provides free representation by attorneys or lay representatives for claimants and employers in administrative law judge hearings. However, most states do not provide this service. It is to your advantage to be represented in administrative law judge hearings by someone who is familiar with unemployment compensation regulations and court decisions.

Unemployment agency claims examiners and other personnel involved in administering the statute are not infallible. Their decisions are reached without the benefit of having complete information from claimants and employers, and they deal quickly with large numbers of cases. Therefore, their error rate is significant. If you feel you have been found ineligible in error or unfairly, you should not hesitate to appeal. Administrative law judge decisions are much more likely to be correct than determinations by unemployment agency claims examiners. Nevertheless, the judges aren't infallible either, and if you disagree with the judge's decision you should appeal it to the state appeals board. In Michigan nearly all appeals board decisions are based on the facts found by the administrative law judge and on his written decision plus a transcript of the administrative law judge hearing. The cost to claimants or employers of an appeal is only the postage for the appeals letter which must be RECEIVED (not postmarked) by the appeals board by 30 days from the date of the judge's decision.

COMMENT: The appeals procedures for agency determinations and re-determinations and for appeals to administrative law judge and appeals board reviews carry STRICT time limits. If your appeals are not timely you will be out of luck in most cases.

IMPORTANT: If you are appealing an unemployment agency determination or administrative law judge eligibility decision, you must CONTINUE TO CERTIFY in accordance with agency procedures (calling Marvin in Michigan) that you are unemployed and seeking employment until your case is finally settled one way or the other. Even if you win your appeal you will not receive unemployment compensation for any week for which you failed to certify.

IMPORTANT: Getting to the administrative law judge hearing on time or preferably a bit early is critical. The judges' dockets are busy and the hearings start on time even if the claimant or the employer is not present. Moreover, being late does not make a good impression on the judge. Make sure in advance that you know how to get to the Hearings Office. Most judges will not accept your excuse that you were late because you got lost on the way to the hearing.

VERY IMPORTANT! Read the green book "Unemployment Benefits in Michigan" very carefully. The green book is provided to claimants. It explains almost everything you need to know about how to apply for and qualify for unemployment compensation benefits.

Part One describes "Benefit rights, Responsibilities and Terms Every Unemployed Worker Must Know."

The Forms Section of the green booklet contains tear-out forms for various aspects of the process of applying for unemployment compensation, appealing unemployment agency decisions and so forth.

Part Two explains how to phone MARVIN to certify/claim weeks of unemployment benefits. Failure to call MARVIN will result in a loss of benefits for the reporting period.

VERY IMPORTANT: Don't forget to register with Michigan Works!!

You must register for work before your first unemployment benefit payment can be made.

You register for work by posting your resume on the Michigan Talent ?Bank at a Michigan Works! Agency (MWA). You must do this at least three days before contacting the Unemployment Insurance Agency's automated telephone system, MARVIN, or using MARVIN Online, to collect your first unemployment payment. To locate the MWA nearest you, call 1-800-285-9675. You can also post yoru resume into the Talent Bank through the Internet by going online to www.michworks.org. If you register online, you still must report in person to an MWA to verify your registration is active in the system. See Form UIA 1222 "Notice to Register for Work" on page 23 of the green booklet (Unemployment Benefits in Michigan, A Handbook for Unemployed Workers). You must take this form with you when you go to the MWA. Failure to register for work can result in a delay or loss of your benefits.

If you are on a temporary layoff (less than 120 days from your last day worked) from a full-time job, you do not have to register for work to be eligible for benefits. When you filed your new or additional (reopened) claim, you were asked a question about returning to work and the date. If you answered that you have a return-to-work date with the same employer within 120 days from your last day of full-time work, you do not have to register for work.

If you get your job by going to a union hiring hall that assigns you to companies, you do not have to register for work unless the union hall has not reassigned you within 120 days from your last day worked.

NOTE: The Unemployment Insurance Agency is quite strict in its enforcement of the requirement to register with Michigan Works!

Appeals to Circuit Court and Higher Courts

State appeals board decisions in Michigan and most other states may be appealed to the circuit court nearest the employer or residence of the claimant and to appellate courts all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Practically speaking, few unemployment compensation cases are appealed beyond the state appeals board or circuit court.


Only the Agency can Determine Eligibility

Finally, and most important, only the unemployment agency can determine whether or not you are eligible and qualified for benefits, not your employer or your friends. Therefore, if you are in doubt, file a claim with the unemployment agency. Delay in filing for failure to file is likely to result in loss of rights and benefits. Moreover, simply talking with an agency representative does not protect your rights. You must file a claim and continue to certify for each week you are unemployed in order to protect your rights and benefits.


DISCLAIMER: Unemployment compensation statutes vary in significant respects from state to state. The above information and comments are based on my experience as a member of the Michigan Employment Security Board of Review (appeals board) and on my experience for the past four years representing claimants in administrative law judge (referee) hearings in Michigan. I am certified by the Michigan Unemployment Insurance Agency to represent claimants, but I am not a lawyer. My intention is to provide accurate and helpful information for claimants based on my experience in Michigan; however, I make no guarantee of the accuracy or completeness of the material on this website, and the content of this site is not specific legal advice for any individual.



Sixteen Ways to Avoid Losing Your Unemployment Appeal

SIXTEEN WAYS TO AVOID LOSING YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT APPEAL

Probably more unemployment compensation cases are lost than are won. "In most cases, you will not win unless the facts and the law are in your favor. It is possible, however, to bungle a potential winner." (William DeMartini, Chief Administrative Law Judge 1979-82, California UI Appeals Board)

The following list covers the most common mistakes parties make in appeal cases.

1. File your appeal on time. An appeal to the Board must be filed (in person at the Job Center or postmarked) within 15 calendar days of the mailing date of the decision. There are no provisions for extension of time and if you file late, you face a heavy burden in proving you were prevented from filing on time Also, it is strongly recommended that you state clearly the reasons for the appeal. 

2. Prepare your case early and on the proper issues(s) You should identify the issue involved in the appeal and begin preparing for the hearing as soon as you learn of the appeal -either when you decide to appeal or when you receive a copy of another party's appeal.

Be careful not to overlook multiple issues in a decision. The claimant's benefit entitlement may be combined with an overpayment, or combine voluntary leaving and availability. Also check the hearing notice, as the referee may signal a need to consider a different section of law at the hearing than the one used by the Job Center, such as voluntary leaving instead of discharge, or Section 3 instead of 402 (e).

Time is very important. Secure your documents and witnesses immediately. If you wait until you receive notice of the hearing to seek counsel, your advocate will have far less time to prepare.

3. Plan to get right to the point at the hearing. As you prepare your case, remember that a clear and concise presentation is generally better. Avoid drowning your main point in a cascade of background material. Concentrate on the legal issues which control eligibility. Be sure you know who has the burden of proof; it governs how much you need to present.

4. If you have a problem with the hearing date, request a new hearing date promptly. Unless you face a dire unanticipated emergency, you will not be granted a last-minute change in hearing date.

5. Make early requests to subpoena witnesses whose attendance you cannot control. Subpoenas are up to you to serve. A subpoena served on a witness the day, or even the day before the hearing may be unenforceable.

6. Don't subpoena witness(s) against you. This happens more than you might think. Be sure you know each witness's testimony before bringing them to the hearing. Do not count on an adverse witness turning friendly because he or she is subpoenaed or under oath at the hearing.

7. When in doubt, present testimony. First-hand testimony is always better than a written statement or document. Moreover, a valid hearsay objection to a document may cause the referee to discount the document completely.

8. Show up on time. Do not count on a referee waiting beyond the scheduled time for you to appear. If you have a last minute emergency or an unforeseen delay en route, contact the referee office immediately.

Follow the advice on the hearing notice to arrive early. You can review the Job Canter documents in advance and avoid facing a "surprise from the file" during the hearing.

9. Present the eyewitness. This is one of the most common mistakes. Offering a witness who has no firsthand knowledge of the event in question is a waste of time and could cost you the case.

10. Object to hearsay evidence of the other side. They have the right to object to any evidence of yours which is hearsay, so you should object to theirs.

11. Present the key document. Be prepared to leave it with the referee. Photocopies are acceptable but bring along the original in case the other side tries to challenge it. If you do not possess a key document, it can be subpoenaed in the same manner as a witness.

12. Summarize voluminous written material. Evidence is judged on quality, not quantity. Submitting a bewildering stack of papers can hurt you rather than help you. If you feel you must, then at least prepare a summary to help the referee and Board take proper note of the items. Be aware, however, that the other side has a right to challenge your summary and to examine the original material from which the summary was compiled.

13. In questioning your witness, avoid leading questions. A leading question is one which suggests the answer, often a "yes" or "no". These types of questions detract from the credibility of the witness. In eliciting the direct testimony of the your witness, ask short questions which allow the witness to relate a fact or describe an event in his or her own way. (You may ask leading questions when cross-examining a witness of the other party, however.)

14. Explain technical terms, occupational slang and strange customs of the trade. If it's not commonly understood outside of your business, trade or profession, explain it. Otherwise, you may confuse the referee, the Board and the courts (if it goes that far) and receive a disappointing decision.

15. Avoid excessive cross-examination. It is very rare for a party to make his or her case on cross-examination. More commonly, you can lose the case by unintentionally giving the witness the chance to repeat and elaborate upon all the adverse testimony just given. However, make sure any claimant statement, related to the issue being ruled on, and which is not considered factual, is refuted during the hearing.

16. Do not assume the referee knows every law enacted or every decision issued. You can reasonable assume the referee will know about a point of law in the unemployment field, but offering the referee copies of, or the citations to, unemployment court decisions related to your case would not hurt.

Statues and decisions outside of the unemployment field should be accurately cited, and a copy of the pertinent material provided if possible.

-- January 1996, Penn-Jersey Assn's "The Keystone"

Michigan Employers to Pay More Into Jobless Fund, Detroit Free Press 11-14-08

Unemployment Compensation Solvency Tax

40,000 Michigan employers will pay an extra $67.50 per employee in 2009 to pay off a $472.8 million shortfall in the unemployment benefits trust func, moneh the state borrowed from the federal  government to pay benefits to 650,000 people in 2008.

Don't deny unemployment insurance benefits to bought-out workers by Michael Harper and Joshua Riley

The article linked below will be of interest to workers who have accepted buy-outs. The authors point out that the law is not clear on whether workers who accept buy-outs are eligible for unemployment compensation benefits. The authors argue that while buyouts are often presented as "voluntary"' in effect, however, the workers to whom they are offered have limited volution. The offer in itself acts as a signal to the worker that a job is not secure. This signal is often received in a deteriorating economic climate. The resulting apprehension of job loss is coupled with the realization that a worker who refuses a buyout now may be jobless with no parting payment in the near future. Reat the entire excellent article here:

[Unfortunately the link is dead. The Detroit Free Press kills links to their articles after a brief period and charges an exorbitant fee for access to the material. Too bad!)



Governor Snyder's Recent Actions Undermine Unemployment Compensation When Michigan Needs it Most


Governor Snyder has recently taken actions that undermine Michigan’s unemployment compensation system. In June he signed a bill passed by the legislature which reduced the maximum duration of unemployment insurance benefits by 23%, from 26 weeks to 20 weeks. Twenty-six weeks has been the maximum benefit duration since the inception of the program. All other states continue to provide 26 weeks of benefits.

As if that weren’t enough, in July Governor Snyder signed an executive order abolishing the Board of Review (unemployment compensation appeals board) and moving the function to a new appeals body combining workers compensation and unemployment compensation appeals. Only two members of the current Board of Review were reappointed.

For many years the Board of Review has been composed, in accordance with the unemployment compensation statute, of five members--a chair person and four members appointed by the Governor for 4-year terms. Two of the members have been designated as “employer members” and two as “claimant members.” Experience representing employers was a requisite of appointment as an employer member and experience representing claimants was a requisite of being appointed a claimant member. These requirements were intended to assure fair consideration of the interests of claimants and employers in accordance with the purpose of the unemployment statute. This safeguard was dropped under Governor Snyder’s executive order which provides for a 9-member appeals body without a requirement of experience representing employers or claimants. In the current Republican administration there may be an employer thumb on the scales of justice, and perhaps toward claimants in a future Democratic administration. Thus, the governor’s executive order is unwise, short-sighted public policy, in my opinion.

Moreover, the Unemployment Insurance Agency recently announced that it will levy a 1 percent per month interest charge on benefit amounts determined to have been paid incorrectly and restitution ordered.

Protecting Wages in a Global Economy, NY Times Editorial 3-18-07

Published: March 18, 2007

Federal wage insurance is a pilot program for a small subset of workers, age 50 or older, who lose their jobs to trade competition. Under the program, a worker who takes a lower-paying replacement job can receive a government subsidy for two years, equal to 50 percent of the difference in earnings up to a total of $10,000, provided the new job pays less than $50,000 a year.

Congress is now examining whether wage insurance should be expanded to a national program and added to existing aid for the unemployed. There are some attractive aspects to the program. But it should not be the first priority in dealing with job loss. Given the nation's limited budget resources, it would be very difficult to incorporate wage insurance into the social safety net without cannibalizing other programs.

First, traditional unemployment insurance must be improved before wage insurance is expanded. A joint federal/state program, unemployment insurance is currently available to about 35 percent of workers and replaces, on average, about a third of their weekly earnings, usually for up to 26 weeks. Critics portray it as a license to loaf. But people who collect unemployment insurance generally find better-paying jobs than those who do not and are more likely to find jobs with health insurance. That is a strong argument in favor of expanding unemployment insurance, not curtailing or replacing it.

There is also no reason to believe that taxpayer dollars are better spent on wage insurance than on retraining for displaced workers. States and localities have had good results from retraining, which could be bolstered with federal support.

On the positive side, wage insurance could be a pragmatic response to the downward pressure on wages from globalization. Not everyone who loses a job in today's economy is able to find a comparable new one. Wage insurance would help keep displaced workers working and, possibly, help them to acquire new skills on the job. But there are still many unanswered questions about its efficacy.

So far, the issue has divided on predictable lines. House Republicans have introduced a bill that would let states use unemployment insurance funds to pay for wage insurance or other programs, like private employee accounts, that could be tapped in case of job loss. That would be good for free-market cheerleaders, but not for laid-off workers.

In contrast, a Democratic representative, Jim McDermott of Washington, has drafted two proposals. One, costing roughly $7.5 billion over five years, would expand unemployment insurance, to be paid for by extending an expiring federal unemployment tax on employers, equal to about $14 per worker per year. The other would allocate $3.5 billion a year to establish a national program of wage insurance, to be paid for by a new employer tax equal to about $40 per worker per year.

Congress should first proceed with improvements to unemployment compensation and then further explore the merits of direct job retraining and wage insurance. Ideally, the nation would be able to provide unemployment insurance, retraining and wage insurance. But lawmakers have to make tough choices. It's crucial to the economic well being of families that they choose well.

Helping the Unemployed NYTimes 5-5-08

Helping the Unemployed


Published: May 5, 2008


Americans don't have to wait for the statistics to know these 
are very hard times. For the fourth month in a row, the 
economy lost jobs in April. The economists said the 
contraction was not as bad as expected - 20,000 jobs 
were shed versus an anticipated loss of 75,000. Not as 
bad as expected is cold comfort. 
 
The latest employment report shows other deepening 
problems for American workers, including slower wage 
growth, cutbacks in hours, a sharp increase in the number 
of part-timers who would prefer full-time work and lengthening
spells of unemployment. 
 
The White House response to the pain is to wait and see if 
things get even worse before calling for help for the 
unemployed. On Friday President Bush said that his 
administration had anticipated the slump and would combat 
it with tax rebates that were passed last February as part of 
the economic stimulus package. 
There is no guarantee, however, that the rebates - which 
are just now being distributed - will spur the economy as 
hoped. Rather than spend the money, many indebted 
consumers are likely to use it to pay down debt, and some 
people, justifiably fearful of job loss, are likely to save it. 
Besides, there's no more time to wait and see. In April, the 
number of Americans who had been out of work for at least 
27 weeks (26 weeks is when unemployment benefits run out) 
rose to 1.35 million workers. In the past year, 2.74 million j
obless workers have exhausted their benefits. 
 
Job loss is clearly a hit to families' finances and, in the 
aggregate, to consumer spending and economic growth. Job 
loss coupled with the exhaustion of unemployment benefits 
leads not only to personal desperation, but will further 
damage consumer confidence, already sorely tested by the 
housing bust, the credit crunch and soaring prices for food 
and gasoline. 
What is needed - now - is for Congress to extend jobless 
benefits for people who exhaust their initial 26 weeks of 
payments. Research is unequivocal that bolstered jobless 
benefits are more effective stimulus than tax rebates. They 
also have the advantage of being targeted to people in need. 
The extension could be attached to the supplemental 
spending bill for the Iraq war, which may come before 
Congress as early as this week. Predictably, President Bush 
is balking, mainly because of his wrongheaded belief that 
tax cuts are the best solution to all problems. 
The White House has also asserted that with the overall 
unemployment rate hovering around 5 percent, joblessness 
is not yet bad enough to warrant an extension of 
unemployment benefits. But in prior recessions, benefits 
had already been extended when long-term unemployment 
reached the current level. And in recent recessions, the 
unemployment rate didn't peak until the recession was 
basically over. Waiting for the rate to rise before extending 
benefits is almost sure to result in offering too little help, too 
late - deepening the pain of the recession.
 
Congress erred by not extending unemployment benefits in 
last February's stimulus package. Lawmakers and Mr. Bush 
now have a second chance to fix that mistake. They must not 
squander it.

 

8-31-09 Detroit News Jobless Claims Overwhelm UIA

Jobless claims overwhelm state workers

Unemployment office's 800 workers ordered to log 140 overtime hours by year's end

Mark Hornbeck / Detroit News Lansing Bureau

Lansing -- While most state workers are about to take their last unpaid furlough day, Unemployment Insurance Agency employees are racking up overtime.

The 800 employees, including call center and problem resolution staff, recently received a memo saying they'll have to put in 140 more hours of overtime before the end of the year to keep up with the crush of applications from Michigan's legions of jobless. They'll have to work seven Saturdays or holidays and then another 80-plus hours of overtime during regular workdays.

The overtime will cost $3.4 million, about $4,300 per employee, a tab picked up by the federal government.

Advertisement

Michigan has an unprecedented 450,000 residents receiving unemployment compensation and "hundreds of thousands" waiting to get benefits, said Norm Isotalo, spokesman for the Unemployment Insurance Agency. The state's 15 percent jobless rate is the highest in the nation.

"We do need to get the work done," Isotalo said.

Call center phone line times have been expanded until 6 p.m., and offices are open longer, from 7 a.m. to 4 p.m., he said.

Staff members have been required to put in overtime for much of the year, Isotalo said, to cut down on waiting time.

Because of the flood of business, Unemployment Insurance Agency workers were not compelled to take the six furlough days required of more than 37,000 other state workers, whose last payless day will be Friday. It's not certain whether more furlough days will be required in the next fiscal year that begins Oct. 1 as a measure to help balance a budget that is $2.8 billion out of whack.

The unemployment office isn't the only help center trying to cope with increased demand.

The waiting lines are mounting for job training and tuition under the state's 2-year-old No Worker Left Behind program because there are more applicants than dollars.

While applications are being processed across most of the state, there are waiting lists in western Wayne and Monroe counties, said Andy Levin, deputy director of the Department of Energy, Labor and Economic Growth. Most of the program is financed with federal grant money, and the state applied to the U.S. Department of Labor for $58 million in late June to address the need, Levin said. Officials are waiting for an answer.

People will be put into training as money becomes available, he added.

One contractor in southeastern Michigan who is handling No Worker Left Behind benefit requests erroneously sent e-mails to applicants earlier this month saying there is no money for the program, Levin said. He added that the Southeast Michigan Community Alliance, which is running the program in Wayne and Monroe counties, neglected to set up a waiting list.

"We're not sure why that happened, but it has been taken care of," he said.

Under the program, laid-off workers can get up to $10,000 for two years of tuition at a community college, four-year university or other approved training program. About 88,000 people have enrolled, Gov. Jennifer Granholm has said.

mhornbeck@detnews.com (313) 222-2470

CHUCK MIDDLETON 5 years ago

A very complete and fair coverage of Unemployment in michigan. I can't think of anything to add. You might mention the length of time to be employed to get coverage.(14 weeks ????) As you may know some employers try to get employes to quit before they hit this point.

Looks like a TYPO right after the heading "Appeals Procedutes."

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Thanks for the encouraging comment and for catching the typo!

bob 5 years ago

Can i recieve unemployment if i was fired due to a point system ?

cris 5 years ago

If my employer tells(in writting) me That the issue on a hostile work environment has been resolved and gives me a manditory call back to work date and I return and find out that I feel the issue has not been resolved so i leave work am I eligible for unemployment.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Bob,  In Michigan the administrative law judges and the courts don't usually find misconduct solely on the basis of automatic attendance point systems which don't take into account the reasons for the absences or tardinesses for which points are racked up. Simply being absent or late is not misconduct under the Michigan statute--being absent or late WITHOUT REASONABLE CAUSE too many times is disqualifying misconduct. The judge will or should decide your eligibility based on how many times you were absent or late without a valid excuse such as illness, need to attend to child care and the like. If the employer is unable to establish that the reasons for your absence were not justifyable, the judge should find you eligible (in Michigan). However, you should note that I'm really not able to express an opinion on your case without reading the case file and hearing your side of the story.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Cris, your eligibility in Michigan would depend on the facts of the case based on your testimony and that of any employer witnesses at an administrative law judge hearing. You would have to show more than your "feeling" that the hostile work environment issue was not resolved. You would have to testify to specific things your supervisor or other employees said to you or did to you after you returned to work. I don't recall the used of the words "hostile work environment" in any case that I have encountered; however. continued harrassment, verbal or physical abuse should constitute "good cause attributable to the employer for quitting." Quit or voluntary leaving cases are among the most difficult for claimants because the burden of proof falls on the claimant to establish the existence of facts attributable to the employer which would cause a reasonable person to quit his or her job. In Michigan you are not required to file a civil rights complaint claiming "hostile work environment" or discrimination in order to qualify for unemployment compensation. But if you have filed a complaint with the civil rights commisstion, that could help support your claim for unemployment compensation. Again, I hesitate to express an opinion on your case without knowing all the facts.

Debbie Shaw 5 years ago

I have been recieving Unemployment benefits and suddenly I get a letter saying that my ex-employer said that I was dischared and when I filed I put that I was layed off. I was never fired. Now I have to provide pay stubs and proof that my claim is true. or I will have to pay back the money plus have my benefits taken away along with a penalty. why would the employer say tell a lie and what do I do.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Without seeing your file I can't offer definitive advice on your case. You are entitled to appeal the Unemployment Agency's redetermination on your eligibility to a hearing before an administrative law judge who will take your testimony and that of your employer and rule on your case. It's important that you appeal within the time limit. Read all the material furnished you by the Unemployment Agency very carefully and follow the instructions. And be on time for your hearing. The hearings are informal and you don't have to have a lawyer. However, a lawyer or representative who specializes in unemployment compensation law is helpful.

Again, my comments are based on my experience in Michigan. Unemployment compensation statutes and procedures differ somewhat from state to state. I am authorized only to represent claimants in Michigan, not other states.

Lynn 5 years ago

My husband was fired for a positive drug test which: 1. After 2 faulty containers, the third test came back positive. 2. He wanted to retest, at his own expense, at a nearby hospital, instead of the tribal clinic room and he was refused. 3. The entity does not give drug tests, although it states so in the manual. 4. The entity waited longer than their own policy states to terminate him and he had to resign in order to collect his vacation pay. 5. He has been employed without a break in service for over 8 years and has never, nor does he know anyone that was ever tested. 7. He has a very good work record with this entity and has never did anything to jeopordize his job or to give anyone reason to think he was under the influence of anything. He has appealed, does he need a lawyer? He has been waiting for over 3 months now and our funds are depleted. Any good advice? Thank you, Michiganders

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

It would definitely be to his advantage to discuss his case with a lawyer or advocate. He should have received a list of claimant advocates from the Unemployment Agency. He should call one or more of them and discuss his case. There is no charge for this advice nor for representation in an Administrative Law Judge hearing. The advocate is paid by the state of Michigan. Under Michigan law your husband was entitiled to a confirmatory test.  The Unemployment Compensation statute reads as follows:

421.29 (m) Was discharged for... (iii) Testing positive on a drug test, if the test was administered in a nondiscriminatory manner. It the worker disputes the result of the testing, a generally accepted confirmatory test shall be administered and shall also indicate a positive result for the presence of a controlled substance before a disqualification of the worker under this subdivision."

Comment: The Unemployment Agency and the judges tend to be tough on applicants who test positive for drugs.  However, filing an appeal doesn't cost anything and may be worth a try.

 You mentioned that "a third test came back positive." I'm not sure what this means. Depending on the facts, it could mean that the testing facility complied with the obligation to provide a confirmatory test. Failure by the lab or the employer to follow correct testing procedures can be grounds for reversal of the agency's disqualification determination. If no one else was ever tested by your husband's employer, depending on the facts, this could be an indication that the test was not "administered in a nondiscriminatory manner" as required by the statute.

Without knowing all of the facts of your husband's case, I'm not able to provide you with advice.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Further comment: Most lawyers don't know much about unemployment compensation law. It's best to find a lawyer or advocate that specializes in UC law. The lawyers and advocates on the list provided by the Unemployment Agency to claimants who timely appeal agency redeterminations can provide competent advice free of any charge to the claimant.

Lynn 5 years ago

Thank you for your quick response, it is very much appreciated. To give a better picture, what I meant for the third test was; the first collection cup did not register a temperture so the speciman collector remarked it was "warm enough, it should register" so then pulled another cup out, dumped that the same sample into another cup. It also did not work, so then after a few hours, had him give another sample which is the one that was sent out. My husband complained to the security director that he did not have trust in the way the test was administered and the fact that 3 sample cups were used and he would perfer to have a test at the lab in the local hospital. He was denied. The tribe does random testing on upper management employees only, which also includes governmental employees. For those employees that test positive, or employees that have been arrested for possesion of any drugs, the tribe offers a drug counseling program to keep their jobs. Once he was informed of the test results, which took 17 days, he again asked for a retest in the local hospital and was informed only the split speciman would be retested at a cost to him of $125, whereas the local hospital charges $50 with the extended test and denied him again.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

From what you've said, it looks to me as if the odds are against your husband winning if he has filed a timely appeal. However, it doesn't cost anything to file an appeal. (Appeals must be received by the Agency within 30 days of the redetermination and filed in accordance with Unemployment Agency procedures. Claimants must continue to certify in accordance with Agency procedures while their appeal is pending.)

Jon 5 years ago

Hello, I recently resigned my position with my company as my family was relocating. Because this left my employer without anyone to do my job they offered to re-hire me on a contract basis and allow me to work from home. I accepted as I did not have employment in our new location. I worked for the company while they brought a replacement up to speed. I received notification that my company wanted to terminate the contract (as it was stated in the contract). I filed for unemployment and have been receiveing checks. Today I received a letter that my employer is contesting the claim. I explained what I have typed here in my rebuttal and attached the letter of termination. Am I in the right here? I would not have had any rights when I resigned but upon their re-hire and termination of my employment wouldn't I be entitled to unemployment benefits?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

I think that in Michigan you would be eligible although it's hard to say for sure without reading the file and seeing what your employer is telling the Unemployment Agency. Although your employer terminated you, they are probably claiming you quit without cause attributable to the employer. This is a gray area. You should go to the administrative law judge hearing, with a representative who know unemployment compensation law, and tell the judge that you did not resign but were terminated by your employer. Sorry for the slow reply.

Jon 5 years ago

Ralph,thanks for the reply. I am in Michigan and as of now I don't know anything about the hearing. The state simply asked for a rebuttal to their claim. I sent the letter of termination I received and I am hoping that this is proof enough of my argument. While losing benefits is of concern what is even more concerning is that all over the documents I was sent it reiterates the penalties for fraud and makes statements that insinuate I am doing something fraudulantly. It kind of scares you away from using a system that is there to be used. Thanks again for the reply. Very useful information!

Jon 5 years ago

Ralph,thanks for the reply. I am in Michigan and as of now I don't know anything about the hearing. The state simply asked for a rebuttal to their claim. I sent the letter of termination I received and I am hoping that this is proof enough of my argument. While losing benefits is of concern what is even more concerning is that all over the documents I was sent it reiterates the penalties for fraud and makes statements that insinuate I am doing something fraudulantly. It kind of scares you away from using a system that is there to be used. Thanks again for the reply. Very useful information!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Good. You did the right thing. Be sure and continue to call Marvin in accordance with the Agency procedures. Shortly, you will receive a redetermination either affirming your eligibility or reversing the original determination. You have the right to appeal an unfavorable redetermination to an administrative law judge. The employer has the same right. If you or the employer appeals you will receive a list of advocates names and phone numbers. It will be to your advantage to have an advocate to help represent you at a the ALJ hearing. Keep me posted on what happens.

Kate 5 years ago

Ralph,

I have a hearing scheduled for next month. On my hearing paper it states that the ISSUES are the redetermination statement, SEC 29 9, and Voluntary Quit (new to me!) What is Sec 29, 9 all about. I have looked it up and can't understand the language. Can they bring up new stuff such as the voluntary quit? I was fired because I didn't tell a supervisor I was going to lunch on a particular day. It was a past practice and I had proof with letters. Then they allowed me to work for one week and a half before they fired me for that!!!! Nobody ever told me that whatever I did was wrong. I worked for this company for 20 months and always did the same procedure. I prooved that to unemployment. That was easy. Two times Unemployment found me not having willful or wanton disregard for the employer. I know this won't be an issue but how in the world can they say that it was a Voluntary quit and what the heck is Sec 29 9 all about.

Kate

Kate 5 years ago

Ralph,

How long is a hearing? It says on my paperwork that it starts at 9:00 a.m. Can I take paperwork with me such as letters from employees stating what happened on the day they said I had a terminable action? Can my father represent me?

Kate

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Kate, in Michigan, administrative law judges ordinarlily schedule one hearing per hour. Hearings usually last less than an hour depending on how complicated the case is, how many witnesses there are, etc. Yes, you may present at the hearing any paperwork relevant to your case.

Section 29.9 deals with cases where employers submit notice to the unemployment agency of possible disqualification due to misconduct beyond the time limit prescribed by the agency. It provides that information submitted late shall not "form the basis of a determinatin of ineligibility or disqualification for a claim period compensated before the receipt of of the notice by the commission." In other words, late information submitted by an employer may not be used retroactively to disqualify a claimant for a period before the information is received by the agency.

The Michigan statute provides that "Any individual claiming benefits in any proceeding under this act by the commission or a court may be represented by counsel or other duly authorized agent." You should inquire of the office of the administrative law judge whether or not you father would be considered a "duly authorized agent."

If you are not accompanied by an advocate, the judge is obligated to assure that you get a fair hearing.

If you are in Michigan the Unemployment Agency should have provided you with a list of advocates who are certified to represent claimants in administrative law judge hearings. The people on this list have received training on the unemployment statute and procedures and are certified to provide representation without charge to claimants (Advocates are paid by the Unemployment Agency.) In my opinion, it would be to your advantage to take advantage of this free service.

Kate 5 years ago

Ralph,

Thank you for providing the information. You have no idea how much I appreciate your informative information. I understand exactly what my paperwork is saying now. They are bringing up a new topic Voluntary Quit because it has never been brought up that is what 29 9 is stating. Why would they bring up a voluntary quit when it isn't even realistic?? Do you think it was to get a hearing?? I don' t know how to make sense of all this? Are they trying to scare me away or do you think it is just protcol for companies to drag it out to this step all the time? I will take advantage of calling the advocacy number and receiving assistance.

Kate from Michigan

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

29 (1) (a) covers voluntary leaving (quittint) without good cause attributable to the employer, such as unsafe working conditions, harrassment, etc.

29(1) (b) covers discharge for misconduct.

29(9) covers situations where the employer is late in submitting information to the Agency on the reason and circumstances of the termination.

Since the circumstances of a termination are often not clear or disputed, the judges usually add the issue of voluntary leaving to cases where the issue may appear to be misconduct, and they sometimes add the issue of misconduct to cases where the issue appears to be voluntary leaving. The do that so that both issues may be raised and discussed at the scheduled hearing. Otherwise, another hearing might have to be held to discuss an issue not listed on the "Notice of Hearing."

An example of a case where the issue is not clear is when an employer tells an employee they are about to be fired but suggests that it will allow the employee to resign. The the employer may claim that the termination was a voluntary leaving based on the written or oral resignation. Of course, there was nothing voluntary about the leaving and the judges treat these cases as misconduct cases, putting the burden on the employer to establish "wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest" rather than on the employee to establish "good cause for quitting attributable to the employer."

You should have received a list of advocates from the Agency. I suggest you call one of the individuals on the list to discuss your case. Best of luck!

Amanda 5 years ago

I was denied benefits and determined to be a voluntary quit due to personal reasons and the determination letter states that I must work and earn a certain amount of money before I can requalify. I did not have a personal reason that kept me from working this was a mistatement by my employer that I disputed in my exit interview. Nevertheless, they did not change the termination letter and now I was denied.How can overcome a voluntary quit allegation? The personal reasons they refer to is a supposed lack of babysitters. I have written up a statement and included statements from my babysitters who confirm that I did not have any babysitting problems. Other than that what can I do to try to win during my redetermination. Do I even have a chance since my term later falsely claims that?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

1. Appeal the Agency's determination with a written statement of your side of the story.

2. If you have already done that and if you have received a redetermination from the Unemployment Agency, appeal the redetermination and ask for a hearing before an administrative law judge.

3. Continue to certify in accordance with the rules that you are unemployed and available and seeking work.

Jon 5 years ago

Ralph,I commented above regarding my situation. I have been denied benefits on my redetermination. I am confused because on redetermination it states that I am being denied benefits for a claim of 11/28. I never made a claim for 11/28 as this was the time I voulantarily quit my job. I was then hired on an open-ended contract basis for about 2 months earning much more than the qualifying amount for a rework even though the redetermination states I did not earn enough to requalify. I am concerned with two things here. The dates don't match the claim I made and they don't even seem to be considering my re-hire and the termination of the contract. Are rules different for a contracted employee? Before I appeal this decision I want to make sure I am not missing anything so here is a time line of events:

11/24/06 - Quit job voulantarily as family was relocating11/28/06 - Before my employment ended I was offered a contracted position that allowed me to work at home and started the Monday after the end of my employment1/31/07 - Contracted employment was terminated. 2/2/07 - Filed claimIs there someone that can officially tell me if I have a case or not? Can you provide any additional information or make any suggestions?

Thanks,

Jon

Lynette 5 years ago

Hello,

I was recently fired from my job because I was using the internet and faxing resumes to other offices to find another job. I know this was not the brightest thing to do- but I was worried about being laid off and I didn't want to be unemployed.

I just received my letter stating I am disqualified from receiving unemployment benefits under MES ACT Sec 29 1B "Disregard for my employers interest". I know I can file an appeal and I am going to do that- but I wanted to get some advice first about what to do/say to help my case. Just very frustrated since it seems that so many receive unemployment that abuse the system and I am struggling and I cannot get approved.

Thank you,

Lynette

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

It's hard to offer advice without knowing more about the case. First question, was there a published rule prohibiting use of your employer's Internet and fax machinel for personal reasons? Had you been informed of the rule if there was one? If there was such a rule, what did it say? Was the rule enforced uniformly? Or was it common for people to use the Internet to communicate with their spouses or friends. (I recall a case at one of the auto companies where the supervisor who fired the claimant admitted at the hearing that he sometimes emailed his wife to let her know he was not coming straight home from work, etc. And the claimant testified that others commonly used email for personal communications.) You may have trouble winning your case if there is a published rule which is enforced uniformly by your employer. Otherwise you may succeed in getting the Agency's determination reversed. There have been quite a few cases going each way.

Misconduct is defined in the law as "wanton or wilful disregard of your employer's interest." I would argue that your employer wasn't harmed by your use of the email any more than if you had used the office telephone to inquire about other employment opportunities. Telephone use for local personal calls is permitted by most employers, so long as the employee doesn't spend a lot of time chatting. That reminds me of another question---How much time did you spend on the Internet and/faxing resumes. If you spent a significant amount of time, that would weaken your case. If you could show that you spent only a small amount of time, mostly on lunch hour and breaks and only sent a few faxes that would help your case.

Another question, why were you apprehensive about being laid off? Had other employees been laid off? Had there been any announcements or communications by your employer about workforce reductions. If there was a real threat of layoff, most employers are happy to allow their employees to use their facilities to look for employment elsewhere. So, it would help your case if you could come up with any evidence that a layoff was likely. If a layoff was imminent you were doing what a reasonable employee would do--start looking for another job.

Finally, had you been warned to stop using the Internet and/or fax machine. Or were you fired without a warning after your use of the facilities was discovered? I would argue that the appropriate thing for your employer to have done, upon discovering that you were using his facilities, would have been to instruct you to stop. And, only if you continued, would dismissal have been appropriate.

One final question--do you know whether the employer hired anyone to replace you? It would be worthwhile to try to find that out because some employers disguise layoffs of people they no longer need as firings for misconduct in order to avoid having them collect unemployment compensation against their account. If you were not replaced that fact could be used to create doubt about your employer's motive for discharging you. It could have been a layoff disguised as a dismissal for misconduct.

Good luck on your case! If you think of it let us know how it turns out.

Lynette 5 years ago

Thanks for responding to my post. Here is the answers to some questions you had posed. First, to answer about the published rule- yes it was in our handbook that internet and office equipment was not to be used personally. Everyone had to sign that they received the handbook. However, I know for a fact that EVERYONE there used the internet for personal reasons and the email system as well including the office manager- whom fired me. How do I prove that though? Secondly, I faxed a few resumes to other offices and I used the internet more often. I don't know if they can prove how often I used it or not- but honestly, I was actively seeking employment elsewhere so it was more than just on my lunch break. I cannot prove it myself one way or another either. I have no documentation of anything from my previous employer. Third, about being laid off. I had heard from employees there that the company had laid off several people shortly before hiring me and since the work was no longer coming as steadily as before, I easily put two & two together and wanted to make sure I had another job before I lost this one. My office manger had never told me about the lay offs- it was all said behind the scene. Fourth, my office manager did not warn me, write me up or proceed with any disiplinary action before she came to me one day and with the faxes she found me sending out & said "pack your belongings- you are done here". Finally, I am not aware of anyone being hired in my replace. I don't speak to anyone in that office any longer.

I don't know how I can appeal or prove anything to a judge/court if I have nothing in writing. It seems the burden of proof is in my hands and I'm not sure how to prove anything. I am in the process of filing a complaint with the State of MI DOL in regards to unpaid overtime wages & I have sent a certified letter to my previous employer to send me my personnel files, but I am afraid that they will not even comply with that and I won't have any documenation at all for either case.

Thanks again for listening to my issue. I take full responsibility for using the internet and fax- however, I just feel that the harshness of my termination should at least result in unemployment compensation, I guess not huh?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

I would guess that you have at least a 50-50 chance of getting the administrative law judge to reverse the agency's determination. It would help if you could get another person who worked in the office at the same time you did to testify at the hearing that internet use was common by many people in the office and was tolerated by your employer. And your representative at the hearing should question any employer witnesses on this point--i.e. ask them if it is not true that many people used the Internt. That will force them to admit this or perjure themselves. Then the employer witness should be asked whether anyone had ever been dismissed or even disciplined for using the Internet at the office. Then they should be pressed on whether they can show that you wasted a significant amount of time when you had work to do. Using the Internet during lunch hour or break time or after work should not be considered misconduct, in my opinion. Finally, any employer witness should be asked under cross examination whether someone was hired to replace you after you were dismissed. If the employer witness says yes, he should be asked the name of that person and whether he or she is still employed there.

Another thought, did the employee handbook define a disciplinary policy spelling out steps of progressive discipline, e.g., counselling written warning, etc. before discharge. And did the rule prohibiting use of the Internet specify what the penalty would be for violations? If not it would be reasonable to expect the company to issue a verbal or written warning in the first instance and only resort to dismissal if there was another violation.

Your case is not hopeless. And it doesn't cost anything to appeal to an administrative law judge. Some of the judges are more lenient and others more strict. You might get lucky. Also, it would be helpful to sign up with one of the claimant advocates. If you appeal you will be sent a list. Most of them are pretty good. And there is no charge for their advice and representation at an appeal hearing. They are paid by the Unemployment Agency. (In Michigan and several other states.)

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Jon, Sorry, I just noticed your question. I'm not sure what you mean by a "contracted employee." The rules are slightly different for employees working through temp agencies. If your assignment through a temp agency ends you are required to notify your temp agency promptly that your assignment ended and let them know you are available for another assignment.

Lynette 5 years ago

Again, thank you sooo much for all your advice! I am definitely going to pursue this case and I appreciate you listening to my issues and offering such helpful pointers. God Bless!! :)

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Lynette, this may be of interest--http://hubpages.com/hub/E-Mail_Trail_Big_Boss_is_w

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Lynette, Here's a case citation that may be helpful: Fleet Engineers, Inc. v. Smith Muskegon Circuit Court, Docket No. 95-32894-AE (December 21, 1995)

In this case the circuit court ruled "When the employer by its own conduct over a substantial period of time revealed it had no interest in preventing the acts which caused the claimant's discharge, those acts cannot form the basis of a finding of misconduct. The act for which the claimant was discharged "was a common occurence, was known by supervisors to occur, and was considered so insignificant to plant safety that it was ignored by plant supervision."

In other words misconduct cannot be found for conduct that has been CONDONED in the past by the employer. The concept is called "condonation." For misconduct to be found for purposes of unemployment compensation for a dismissal for previously condoned actions the employer must provide clear notice that the conduct will no longer be tolerated. And the policy must be applied in a non-discriminatory manner, i.e,, not selectively.

Mark J. Hermansen 5 years ago

My employer sold to another company. The two owners new and old told us in a company meeting everyone’s job would be safe for one year.Within a month they changed my work days and posted my job with less benefits and more responsibilities.I was told by the general manager if I did not accept this job change I could leave with unemployment. Now I was just given a judgement that I left voluntarily and I owe what unemployment I did receive.If the general manager told me there would be no severance pay but the company would consider the job changed I could file for unemployment, do I have a case?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Mark, The burden is on you to show that you had good cause attributable to the employer for resigning. Establishing this is not easy. Unfortunately, the employer does not have the final say on eligibility for unemployment compensation. The addition of responsibilities would not be considered good cause. Whether reductions in benefits might qualify, depending on the extent of the reductions. For example, cancellation of health care benefits and/or pension benefits would, in my opinion, would qualify as good cause. If memory serves, wage or salary reductions of 15 percent or more would constitute good cause. Your case sounds like a tough one to me. However, it doesn't cost anything to appeal. If your employer doesn't show up at the hearing you might get the redetermination reversed. Good luck!

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Correction: Whether reductions in benefits might qualify as good cause DEPENDS on the extent of the reductions.

dane 5 years ago

Hello,

ralph i was in a rather bad situtation i have a redetermination on my unemployment benefits it states sec 29(1) b also 29(1)(a) when i was qualifying for umemployment they ask for the seperation reason of course. i stated that i was fired because that is what i was told by a fellow employer how it happened was me and my friend that worked together at this job rode to work together the day of my seperataion my friend told the supervisor he quit. i had now way home so i left with him telling my employer i had to go with him he acted like he didnt even here me. I called one of my friends from work they said i was fired. never went back and know they are saying volutary leaving and i dont know what to do to fight my case. i was also wondering if they do find me disqualified will they just cut me off or make me pay it back?

Thanxs for you time, Dane

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

It's hard for me to offer an opinion on your case without seeing the case file. From what you've said it, you appear me to have a tough case. Nevertheless, you have a right, within 30 days, to request a hearing before an administrative law judge. You should continue to certify by calling MARVIN while your case is on appeal. Once a hearing is scheduled you will be sent a list of advocates which the Agency pays to represent claimants. Call one of the advocates on the list and discuss your case with him. I'm afraid the judge may say that you did not act as a reasonable person when you relied on another employee's statement that you had been fired without checking with your employer.

Charles  5 years ago

I recently recieved the decision by the law judge on my appeal which he modified the claims examiners findings of gross misconduct. He modified it to simple misconduct and disqualified me for 8 weeks otherwise payable. It has been 15 days since the letter was dated and mailed to all the parties. I have received anything from the claims department, I continued to file during the entire process. Do I have any other action to take to find out why I haven't received anything, yet?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

Michigan doesn't distinguish between "misconduct" and "gross misconduct." My only suggestion is to call your employment agency or go to an unemployment agency office and speak to a representative. In the meantime, keep certifying. Eventually the agency will comply with the judge's decision and pay you whatever you have coming. Of course your employer has a right to appeal the judge's ruling. However, you should be entitled to receive benefits while tha appeal is pending.

linfull 5 years ago

I have been with my current company for 3 years. I just read an article in the local paper and found out the owner is moving our company to another town. This will be approximately another 30 miles per day for me to drive. With gas over $3.00/gallon does this qualify as a hardship?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

In my opinion, that's in a gray area. There is no specific number of miles constituting too far to commute.  Whether you qualify for unemployment compensation would depend on whether the administrative law judge considered your action "good cause attributable to your employer" for a reasonable person to quit, considering all factors, e.g., the traffic and how long the commute takes in hours as well as miles, any personal health condition, the cost of gasoline, the availability and cost of public transportation, the length and hours of your shift and the like. Your rate of pay might also be considered relevant because while it might be reasonable for someone making the minimum wage to quit because of a 60-mile per day commute, it might not be considered reasonable for someone making a $100,000 salary to quit for the same reason. It might be considered reasonable for someone earning the minimum or a low wage to quit due to a long commute because to cost would eat up a significant portion of his earnings. I think the IRS allows 35 cents per mile or thereabouts for travel by personal vehicle which would amount to $21 per day for a 60 mile commute, a sizeable amount for someone earning a low wage, but less significant for someone earning a high wage.

The safest course of action would be to find another job before quitting the one you have because you may or may not qualify for unemployment compensation.

will 5 years ago

I have a hearing coming up on 5-24-07 I was terminated from my job but the employer is claiming disregard for the employer interest. I think they are going to argue insubordination or theft which are both not true. Let me tell you a little about it maybe some one can help. I came to work just after the holidays and I found a letter to my replacement welcoming him to the company which was left on the copy machine. I then asked my office manager who this person was and asked if he would be taking my job. I did not tell her I had found this letter she told me not to pay any attention to office rumors. I then knew I was in trouble so I told a couple of the office people I was sick and going home. My regional then called me at home and told me that I had walked off the job and that I should bring my keys in asap I told her as soon as I get a letter of termination that I would return the keys but I would be at work the next morning and countinue to work untill I had got the letter. She told me if I did return that she would call the police and have me removed from the property. So I showed up at work and she called the police and they asked me to leave which I did and then returned the keys the same day. I got the police report it is all in it what I can't see how they can win any advice.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 years ago

If you are in Michigan I advise you to call one or more of the claimant advocates from the list that you should have received. The advocates are paid by the State of Michigan to represent unemployment compensation claimants in appeal hearings before administrative law judges. It's to your advantage to be represented by an advocate. If you don't have an advocate, the judge is responsible for you to receive a fair hearing.

Without reading your case file it's hard for me to offer advice other than to tell the truth to the judge when you testify. The employer will be asked to testify first since the burden is on the employer to prove misconduct. In Michigan misconduct is defined as "wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest." From what you've said it appears to me that there was a misunderstanding between you and the office manager and that your action that they found objectionable (not returning your keys and reporting for work) occurred after you had already been fired by the company. If I were cross-examining the employer witness I would ask what they were alleging you had done (before the incident involving the keys) that  caused them to decide to fire you.

nthomas74 5 years ago

I was terminated from an employment agency for misconduct. They claimed that I used the internet too much at the company I worked at. When I first started at the company I was assigned to, they said they didn't care about internet usage very much. During down time, I did read news, but I also used the company website that was work related. Then two months later, I became very sick. It was during this time that I was given a friendly warning, saying that I was doing a great job, and that I should cut back on the internet, which I did. I never used it again after this warning. Plus, I missed four days of work, which the employment agency was not happy about. I even spent a day in the hospital with a very high fever. When I came back to work, I was still very weak but did my job. I was told that I would have more responsibilities. But in the meantime, they hired a new girl to do my job. Then at the end of the week, my employment agency told me I was terminated for misuse of the internet.

I filed for unemployment benefits, which the employment agency contested. I had a telephone interview with an UI representative and explained everything that happened. He called again a few days later to retrieve more information. Later I was found eligible to receive benefits for the UI department stated that my actions were not wilfull or deliberate. I received benefits for a month and now the agency is appealing. My telephone hearing is next week. I have my medical records ready, but my question is do I have a chance at winning this? Any advice is helpful.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Unemployment Compensation statutes and regulations vary somewhat from state to state. My knowledge is based on my experience in Michigan where misconduct has been defined by the courts as "wanton or wilfull disregard of the employer's interest." The burden of estabilishing misconduct is on the employer. This requires proof of a quite sericous single offense such as drinking on the job, refusal to follow proper instructions from a supervisor, fighting, theft and the like OR a series of minor offenses such as absenteeism, tardiness and possibly as in your case, unauthorized use of the Internet involation of a company rule AND failure to respond to warnings to stop.

Using the Internet in the workplace is quite common in my experience. And as I pointed out above, the real issue is how much time is the employee wasting on the Internet? Use of the Internet during lunch period, break time or when there is no work to be done should not be considered misconduct in my opinion. However, UC decisions have upheld the employer's right to establish a rule prohibiting use of its facilities to access the Internet.

Another legal principle is that company rules must be enforced evenhandedly for all employees. It might be helpful if you could produce evidence that other employees use the Internet your workplace without being dismissed or disciplined.

It's hard to predict what your chances are without seeing the case record and knowing the law in your state. In Michigan, based on what you said, I think your chances of winning would be better than fifty percent.

Good luck in your hearing.

nthomas74 4 years ago

Thanks, Ralph!

i just contacted an attorney who has a 97% winning rate in employee's benefits. She told me I had a 50/50 chance of winning, but it looks really good for me. She also informed me that most of the time, agencies would try to falsify records and signatures. And since i was fired by the agency and not by the company i worked at, it looks very good. She told me not to worry. i feel so much better now.

Thanks again. I will keep you posted on any new developments.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Let us know how it turns out. I agree with your attorney's comment about temp agencies, especially the smaller ones. They will do almost anything to avoid having anyone collect unemployment compensation against their account. Nursing homes and car dealers are slso notorious for their sleazball tactics in unemployment compensation issues.

Phillip Persenaire 4 years ago

I am 72 years old and draw SS however it is not enough to live on so I continue to work. The company I am working with is downsising & I am sure I will be left go. At 72 can I draw unemployment?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Yes. There is no age limit for unemployment compensation. You must be available and seeking work in your line of work or profession. Also, you must report in every other week in accordance with unemployment agency procedures. And you should read all the material provided to you and meticulously follow the instructions. Most unemployment agencies are strict about meeting all deadlines and following all their rules.

Felicia M 4 years ago

Mr. Deeds, the information and insight regarding unemployment benefits has given me a greater understanding of how the law works. Thank you for that.

I do have a question, though: I am in the process of appealing an administrative law judge's decision regarding my eligibility for unemployment benefits. In the summer of 2006, I worked through a temp agency for a two month assignment in IL. Once the I was told by the employer that the assignment was to end in two weeks, I promptly notified the temp agency of my anticipated last day. I contacted the temp agency again on my last day with the employer. I also informed the temp agency that although I had to move back to MI (where I am from originally) because I couldn't live in Chicago without income, that I am actively seeking work in IL, and had no problem with moving back to IL for employment in HR. The temp agency told me they had no jobs available, so I had no choice but to move back to MI. In March 2007, I filed an unemployment claim with IL, which the temp agency protested. The administrative law judge ruled in the temp agency's favor, stating that since the last time I spoke with the agency was at the end of my assignment, and no time during 2007, that it gave the impression that I was unavailable for work (even though I presented into evidence during the telephone hearing my record of work search.) Yes, I did not use the temp agency as a job search resource, but I was actively applying for work in both IL and MI and keeping my eye open for opportunities.

Mr. Deeds, I understand that laws differ from state to state. I wanted to get your insight as to how to proceed with my appeal. I feel I should not be penalized because I didn't keep in weekly contact with the temp agency. And besides I feel I did my part in notifying the agency of my work availability after the assignment completed.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

Felicia

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

To be perfectly honest, I have never come across a case like yours, and I am not familiar with the law in Illinois or even in Michigan. Otherwise, the best advice I can give is to set forth the facts of your case as clearly and completely as you can in your appeal. Depending on how much money is at stake you might want to consult an attorney who is familiar with the Illinois unemployment compensation statute and court decisions.

There is a Michigan Supreme Court decision that might be helpful in your case. It is Bingham v American Screw Products Co, 398 Mich 546 (1976).

Supreme Court Holding: 1. Claimant who established credit weeks in Michigan can requalify for benefits by being able and availab;e in Kentucky. 2. since claimant resided n Kentucky his previous Michigan employer's offer of work was not suitable as it was too distant from his residence in Kentucky.

Facts: Claimant left a Michigan job because he could not find adequate housing at a price he could afford. He was disqualified for voluntary leaving. He returned home to Knetucky, and registered for work with the appropriate employment office there. Thereafter he diligently sought and made himself available for suitable work, but turned down a job offer from his former Michigan employer due to the distance from his Kentucky residence.

Decision:  (1) Claimant requalified for benefits after serving the period of disqualification under the Act, and (2) was not disqualified for refusing his former employer's job offer because the offer was not an offer of "suitable work" due to the fact the job was too distant from his residence.

Rationale:  1. When a claimant moves to a locality other than where he earned credit weeks, his being able and available should be determined by whether he was genuinely attached to the labor market in his new locality.

2. In determining whether the Michigan employer's offer of work was sjuitable the Court found claimant's residence was in Kentucky as this is where he actually lived. The Court of Appeals erred in holding the Michigan employment offer was suitable, when it determined claimant's residence as a matter of law was both where he resides and where he earned credit weeks. To hold otherswise would restrict an unemployed person's right of freedom of movement to seek a job where it is best for him.

*****

In pursuing your appeal in Illinois you might cite the above Michigan Supreme Court decision and its reasoning. Illinois would of course not be bound by a Michigan decision, but they might take the reasoning into account when rendering a decision. Or it might be that the law or Court decisions in Illinois are similar to the above Michigan decision. I don't have the time or ready access to the unemployment compensation law or court decisions in Illinois. That's about the best I can do for you.

One of the purposes of Unemployment Compensation is to facilitate the working of the labor market, i.e., to assist and encourage people who are laid off to actively seek employment. It seems to me that your actions and the Michigan Supreme Court decision are consistent with this objective.

Note: I am not familiar with unemployment compensation law in Illinois. Moreover, I have never handled a case like yours in Michigan.

Felicia M 4 years ago

Thank you for the advice! The following is the wording from the Referee's Decision:

"CONCLUSION: Section 500C of "The Unemployment Insurance Act" provides, in part, that an unemployed individual shall be eligible to receive benefits with respect to any week only if the Director find that he is able to work, and is available for work; provided that during the period in question he was actively seeking work and he has certified such on a form provided by the Department listing the places at which he has sought work.

Futhermore, where a claimant last worked for a temporary help agency, a failure, without good cause, to contact that agency each week raises a presumption of unavailability. Here, since the claimant was seeking work back in the Chicago, Illinois area, there was no good cause reason for her not to be contacting the tempory help agency. That would have been one of her better job sources. Therefore, the Referee finds that the claimant was not available for work within the meaning of the Act."

I was at a total loss when this decision was rendered because it was not a delibrate decision of mine not to contact the agency. I was in search of full time work, and since I told the agency of my availability at the end of the assignment (plus once more in mid Oct 2006), that I was doing the right thing.

If the decision stands, I will have to repay the state of IL $794, which I do not have because of my continued unemployment.

Is there a place where I can search for cases involving claimants drawing unemployment from temporary employment agencies?

Once again, thank you!

Felicia

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I'm sorry, but I don't know of anything that would be helpful. The statute in Illinois is stricter with regard to temp agencies than it is in Michigan. It must have been written by lobbyists from the temp agencies. Requiring you to contact the temp agency every week or be presumed to be unavailable is quite unreasonable in my opinion. The monkey should be on the temp agency's back to contact you about available assignments rather than vice versa. And once a week is excessive. You only have to certify your availability to the unemployment agency every other week. In Michigan temp agency employees whose assignments end are only obligated to report this fact to their temp agency. There is no requirement that they contact them again. The agency is expected to notify the employee of any suitable openings. You are the victim of a fishhook inserted in the unemployment statute at the request of temp agencies so that they will be able to disqualify their employees from collecting unemployment compensation against their accounts. This is but one example of many reasons why unemployed workers who should be getting unemployment compensation aren't getting it.

I don't know what Illinois does to collect payments ruled improper. In Michigan, my understanding is that they don't try to take your house or car if you don't pay. But they will grab any future state income tax refund that you may have coming. And they will take a portion of any future unemployment compensation payments for which you may eligible. Also, in Michigan repayment may be excused if evidence of hardship is provided. You may want to inquire of the Unemployment Agency in Illinois about their collections policy and whether they have provisions for excusing repayment in hardship cases.

Felicia M 4 years ago

I KNEW I should have run away with the circus when I had the chance! LOL

I agree with you completely...but then again, of course I would...my opinion is biased. :)

Thank you for your insight!

Felicia

Gary W. 4 years ago

I understand that I am in a "right to work" state where either party can terminate employment without reason. On a conference call with other people, I was given a choice to resign and promise not to sue the company, or be fired if I did not sign that agreement. The company said they would not protest unemployment benefits. I resigned with a simple letter instead. Do you think this is "good cause" to qualifty for unemployment? Thanks, Gary W.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

As I have pointed out my experience is in Michigan, and I'm not familiar with the laws in other states although they are similar in most respects. When you file for unemployment compensation you will be asked whether you were laid off, quit or were dismissed for misconduct.  And your former employer will be informed of your application for benefits and queried about the circumstances of your termination. The fact that your employer promised not to protest your unemployment compensation does not automatically mean that you will be ruled eligible for benefits. In Michigan your eligibility would depend on the reason why your employer gave you the choice of resigning or being fired. That is did the reason you were going to be fired constitute "misconduct" under the statute? That is, did you willfully disregard the interest of your employer? The burden is on the employer to establish misconduct. If your employer does not protest your benefits or supply the reasons for firing you, then you should be found eligible for benefits.

In Michigan I would advise someone in your circumstances to tell the Unemployment Agency that he or she was, in fact, fired without good cause but given the choice of signing a letter of resignation. Thus, the termination was not a "voluntary leaving" which would disqualify him or her from receiving benefits. It was a de facto dismissal. To establish misconduct the employer must show that the employee committed a single serious violation of a company rule of which he had been informed or that he repeatedly violated less serious rules, e.g. repeated absences or tardinesses without reasonable cause.

Anne 4 years ago

Question.

I was leaving my job for other employment, I gave two weeks notice. My employer let me go because he did not see the point in me continuing to work for him if I was planning to move on. Days before I was to start my new job, it fell through the new employer claiming one of my previous employers gave me a poor review. I received a copy of the background check and it said nothing to this effect. I am unemployed and having difficulty finding other employment.

So now I am trying to get unemployment. I have been disqualified due to MES Act 29(1)(A) and MES Act Sec 29(5). I have appeled only to receive the same determination. My next step is to have a hearing. I don't know what to do. Do I proceed with a hearing? Do I even stand a chance. I guess I thought because my employer let me go during my notice period that I qualified.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I would proceed with a hearing although Sec 29(5) provides that in order not to be disqualified for quitting the new  employer must offer permanent employment and you must "perform services" for the new employer.

However, in Miller (Visiting Nurse Association), 1978 BR 54236 (B76-17052) the Board of Review ruled that a discharge in anticipation of voluntary leaving is a non-disqualifying separation.

FACTS: The claimant was employed as a secretary. "On May 11, 1976, the claimant notified her employer that she intended to quit on July 10, 1976. On June 23, 1976, the employer discharged the claimant because of the claimant's projected leaving."

DECISION: "It is held that the claimant's discharge on June 23, 1976 is non disqualifying under Section 29 of the Act."

RATIONALE: "Appeal Board precedent on the issue of a discharge in anticipation of a quit is at odds. One view (followed by the Referee in this matter) is that the discharge is disqualifying under Section 29(1)(a). Eq, In re Farmer (Michagan Kitchen Distributors), B72 2870 41782. The other view is that such a discharge is a non-disqualifying separation. Eq, In re Howarth (Falvey Autos, Inc.), B65 3611 34164; In re Terry (Paul's Steak House), B64 5185 33210. See also Carter's Hamburgers, Inc. v. Employment Security Commission, Case No. 316, 234 (Wayne County Cir Ct 1961) and Hubert v Appeal Board, Case No 323, 171 (Wayne County Cir Ct 1962)

"In our opinion, the latter view is correct. Under section 29(1)(a), a 'leaving' must be 'voluntary' to be disqualifying. When an employee is discharged for giving notice of an intent to leave his work at a future date, hsi leaving is involuntary. Absent proof to the contrary, the employee cannot be deemed to have chosen unemployment. Rather, his unemployment is the result of his employer's judgment about the efficiency of the firm."

My recommendation: Appeal your redetermination to a hearing before an administrative law judge. Get an advocate. Call the advocate's attention to the above cases. And if the judge rules against you, appeal his decision to the Boarde of Review in Lansing. You have nothing to lose. Appeals to an administrative law judge or to the Board of Review cost you no more than the postage on your appeal letter.

Important: Don't miss your appeal deadlines and continue to call MARVIN in accordance with Agency procedures until your case is resolved. Good luck!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Anne: I forgot to mention that once you appeal, the Unemployment Agency will provide you with a list of advocates who are paid by the Agency to represent claimants. The people on the Agency list are familiar with unemployment compensation regulations and court decisions. There is no cost to you for representation at an administrative law judge hearing.

Gary W. 4 years ago

(cont)

If I understand, I was defacto dismissed, and they likely have to establish misconduct or good cause.<> When I file as "terminated without good cause", will the unemployment office want to know the details up front that I had filed an internal complaint, it could not be resolved, and I had asked for an early layoff that the company refused, -then they asked me to resign or be fired? Or, will that come later if I am denied, and there is a hearing? Thank you

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Gary: It sounds to me that your case was not a voluntary leaving but rather a firing without misconduct. The unemployment agency (Michigan) will send you a form asking several questions about the circumstances of your dismissal. You should answer the questions truthfully, without writing long, detailed answer, e.g., "I was told I would be fired and offered the opportunity to resign instead. I chose to resign. This was not a voluntary resignation. I was not accused of misconduct." They will send a similar questionnaire to your former employer. Based on your answer and that of your employer, the Agency will make a determination on your eligibility for benefits. Both parties will have the opportunity to appeal this determination. If either party objects to the determination, a redetermination will be made which either party may appeal to an Administrative Law Judge (Referee) hearing at which time testimony will be taken and a written decision issued. Good luck!

Jason 4 years ago

Ralph -

I put in my 2 weeks resignation with my previous employer. They terminated my employment the day after submitting my resignation.

Today in the mail I received two letters of determination, one telling me that I was not qualified for benefits due to the fact that I resigned. The other states that I am qualified for benefits due to the fact that I was terminated before my resignation date.

Is there any way to tell based on the determinations I received which one is correct?

Jason 4 years ago

(continued)

Here is the specific information I received:

Determination Letter #1:

"You quit your job with (employer) effective 5/23/07 because you were dissatisfied with your pay. You were given more responsibilites along with a promotion. After two months you felt you should have been compensated for these new responsibilities. There is no documentation showing the employer was given a reasonable opportunity to rectify the problem.

It is found that you voluntarily quit your job without good cause attributable to the employer. You are disqualified for benefits under MES Act, Sec. 29 (1)(A).

You are disqualified for week ending 5/26/2007 until complettion of a ($) earnings rework requirement which has not been satisfied"

Determination letter #2:

"You were terminated from (employer) on 5/9/07 when you gave notice of your intention to resign on 5/23/07. Misconduct in connection with your work has not been established.

It is found that you were not fired for a deliberate disregard of your employers interest. You are not disqualified for benefits under MES Act, Sec. 29 (1)(B)"

The "Date notice was mailed or personally served" are identical save for the last 6 digit number at the far bottom right of the letters.

Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

In my opinion, the second determination is correct. (See my response to Anne, above.) Keep calling Marvin. You should begin to receive benefit checks or continue to receive them. Keep us posted on what happens.

walt 4 years ago

Ralph Fired for refusing random drug test.Worked for a drug re-hab in michigan.Who can administer drug test? Graduate of Narconon re-hab to administer test. I REFUSED Asked to be tested by nurse on staff.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I don't know the answer to your question off the top of my head, and I'm out of town on vacation for two weeks without access to materials to research the law and rules on drug testing. Sorry.

William Bailey 4 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I am , er was, a computer repair technician for a small (2-3 person) company in FL. I was terminated a few weeks ago for doing work after hours and on the weekends. Is this "misconduct" of a nature that would disqualify me from unemployment benefits? My ex-boss is of the opinion that he needs me to "learn a life lesson" and removing a car, cellphone and paycheck are apparently not punishment enough. There were no issues with my work performance or quality and his only offense occurred on my time. Since He intends to fight the claim I was wondering how cases like this usually go?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

In my experience, it's hard to predict the outcome of cases like yours which are in the "gray area," especially without hearing both sides of the story. In Michigan, based on what you said, I think you would have a good chance of winning your case before an administrative law judge. It's surely worth a try. The result might depend on whether you violated a published rule of which the employer had made you aware. Also, your chances would be better if you had not been warned not to work after hours. I would think you would be entitled to at least one warning. The fact that your work performance was good is in your favor, but the judges tend to focus on the alleged misconduct--how serious it was and whether the claimant violated a published rule of which he had been made aware. If you had been told clearly not to work after hours and you did it anyway your chances probably aren't good. Also, what work you were doing would probably be relevant. If you were working on something personal to benefit yourself and not the employer that would not help your case. If you were working on work which was benefiting your employer that would be in your favor. In Michigan the standard for determining misconduct is "wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest." And the burden is on the employer to establish that the alleged misconduct occurred and that it harmed the employer's interest.

milf-hunter profile image

milf-hunter 4 years ago

Ralph, where did you get this information? I guess what I am trying to say is, Is this your own wording or taken from the web?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

It's my own work. I represent claimants in unemployment compensation appeals hearings in Michigan. I served five years on the State of Michigan Unemployment Compensation Board of Review which rules on appeals by claimants and employers of administrative law judge decisions.

Jenny Garvey 4 years ago

Dear Ralph,

I recently quit my job at a clothing store in Michigan. I had worked there for two years. I quit because I had been threatened several times to be fired and months would go by, and it was as if nothing ever happend. I was a nervous wreck. The environment also got to the point where it was so hostile, that I would come home and cry every night.

It all began in April, when I chose to interview for a flight attendant position. I took a personal day to attend the interview in Chicago. I simply approved the day off with my store manager; did not tell her why. My district manager came, and somebody must have known I was going and told her. Several associates approached me telling me they were contacted and asked if they were interested in interviewing for my position, on my day off. I kept to myself and was desperately seeking other employment.

One day I was called, and told my store manager and I were to have a meeting with the district manager who was on the phone. She told me I was not fulfilling the requirements of my position; and asked me why. I told her that another manager left large amounts of her work unfinished and I helped to finish the work, while my work suffered. She then asked if I felt I was the right fit for this position. I told her I thought I was. She asked me to resign, and I said absolutely not. She then said she would have to "do this the hard way". I then heard her tell my store manager to begin writing me up, and document everything she could. I went to talk to the manager who left the work, and tried to resolve the situation. She stated that this wasnt her problem and she wasnt doing anything wrong. I was then contacted by phone, again, by the district manager, who began screaming at me. She told me to accept responsibility for what I had done, and that I needed to act like a grown up. She then said what I did was called retaliation, and to punch out and go home. I left, and called in sick the following day. I was so anxious and nervous that I had horrible diarhea. I was seen at the grocery store shopping for medicine by a manager. When I returned to work, I had three write ups. One stating I had verbally assualted the manager I tried to resolve things with, two stating I had thrown a tape dispenser (I absolutely did not) and number three stating I was seen in public when claiming sickness; and I should stay home when sick. I finished out my shift, but called and quit. I told them I was just too uncomfotable to continue working under those conditions. Could I claim unemployment? I have filed and I will be getting sent a questionaire as to why I quit. Any helpful tips?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

In my opinion, you deserve to be eligible for unemployment compensation, but your chances of winning your case before an administrative law judge are no better than 50-50. The burden is on you to convince the judge that you had good cause for quitting attributable to your employer. That is not easy. The standard is whether your job situation was bad enougth that a reasonable person would resign under the circumstances. The assumption is that unless the situation is pretty bad (unsafe job, sexual harrassment, asked to do something illegal, pay checks bounce, etc.) that a reasonable person will find another job before he or she quits the one they have. When you file for benefits the best you can do is to describe briefly the mistreatment by your employer and its effect on your health that caused you to quit. And if the Agency determines that you are eligible you will receive unemployment compensation until and unless your employer appeals. If your employer objects, the Agency will make a redetermination which you and your employer have the rigth to appeal to an administrative law judge.

Bottom line, you have nothing to lose by filing for unemployment compensation and, if necessary, appealing to an administrative law judge hearing which doesn't cost anything. And you might get lucky and win. Also, your employer might not show up at the hearning which would improve your chances.

Jenny Garvey 4 years ago

Thank you so much for your advice. You'll never know how much I appreciate it.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Good luck!

jacksonBusiness profile image

jacksonBusiness 4 years ago

Very enlightening as I have been there before

Keep Hubbin

Jackio<a href="http://hubpages.com/_3vo9q7smqf2vp/hub/are-you-sec >THE THEORY OF BEING SECOND BREED</a>

David 4 years ago

Ralph,

I worked as a mechanic for a company in Michigan for 4 years. I was promoted to a foreman position with the promise of $1.25 more per hour if I did a satisfactory job in 6 weeks. 6 weeks went by, then 8, and when I asked about my raise, my supervisor just kept giving me the run around. It was finally after a year and 1/2, that I broached the subject again....and was told I'd get my raise in 2 weeks. Well, I inquired about my raise again and was told I must not really want the position and was demoted to just a mechanic again. I had in the meantime gotten a part time job for a autobody repair shop. My supervisor was aware of the part time job and never said anything about it. Another

David 4 years ago

Sorry got cut off....Anyway another employee went to my supervisor and said I was working for a competitor. I was called into the office and was told I had to quit my part time job or I was terminated. I had signed an employee handbook that said working for a competitor was grounds for termination but I had the part time job before I was required to sign the handbook.

I filed for unemployment and was awarded it because my determination letter said I had the 2nd job before I was made aware of the policy and intentional misconduct was not found.

I received 6 weeks worth of unemployment and then received a re-determination letter saying that I was not eligible for the claim and that I had to pay back almost $2,000. My employer contested my claim saying that I refused to quit my 2nd job and that I said I was done and walked out, which is not true. He said I was terminated....But the redetermination said that I voluntarily quit without good cause.

The letter also stated that "claimant is disqualified for week ending 6-16-07 until completion of a $3,732.00 earnings rework requirement which has not been satisfied. What does that mean?? It also says claimant must pay to the agency in cash or deduction from benefits, restitution in the amount of $1,866 under section 62(A).

I just wrote an appeal letter requesting a hearing before an Admin. Law Judge stating that I was fired and did not voluntarily quit. What do you think are my chances and is there anything else I should do? The guy I had the part time job with now hired me full time as of Aug 20th, but the last time I called into MARVIN, was also Aug 20th to claim the previous 2 weeks and I never received my check. Is that because my claim was redetermined?

Thank you so much for your time. Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated. I certainly cannot afford to pay all that money and I don't believe I should have to.

Thanks again.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

1. It's hard to give solid advice without reading the case file, but it sounds to me like you are entitiled to unemployment compensation and that you have a good chance of winning your case before an administrative law judge.

2. Get an advocate to represent you at the hearing and give him or her all the facts. Don't wait til the last minute to sign up an advocate because it takes time to get the case record and prepare for the hearing.

3. Plan to get to the hearing early. Allow extra time for traffic jams, road repairs, etc. The hearnings usually start on time regardless of whether one party or the other is late.

4. I'm not sure why you didn't get your last check. It was probably because of the unfavorable redetermination.

5. Earnings re-work requirement--if you have been disqualified from receiving UC you must be re-employed and earn a certain amount before you become eligible again for unemployment compensation. If you win your case before the administrative law judge, I don't think the earnings re-work requirement would apply.

6. One argument in your favor is that your employer or supervisor was aware of your other part-time job and said nothing about it, thus, in effect, condoning your other job. Also, your advocate could question any employer witnesses to demonstrate that your second job caused harm to your primary employer's business, asking them whether or not they have any evidence that you induced or tried to induce any potential customer to have their work done at the shop where you were working part time. (If they can show that you will probably lose your case. You may lose anyway based on your violation of a company rule of which you had been informed.)

Good luck at your hearing!

Jenny Garvey 4 years ago

Ralph,

Thanks for all of your help, I was found eligible to recieve unemployment!

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Good for you!

David 4 years ago

Thanks for responding. Your time is greatly appreciated....Hopefully it will all work out. Have a great Sunday.

Steve 4 years ago

My first question is what standard of proof does the MI UIA use?

I have discrimination complaint against my former employer who lost his objection, but the MDCR is trying to tell me that they won't give any defference to the UIA's decision because the UIA is using a different standard. Without going into detail, I just think (for reasons I haven't disclosed) that either this attorney is predjudiced or dosn't know aht she is talking about.

I was also wonder about a strange decision I got a couple of years ago about two weeks severence from the Board. I was amicably terminated from my employment at a CPA firm and was asked to sign a waiver in order two receive two weeks severence. The contract had no reference to the word severence nor was there an allocation to specific time period and the amount I agreed to was the net amount of two weeks pay, though the check stub indicated the gross amount when I received it. The Attorney/CPA principle owner drew up the waiver contract and signed on behalf of the CPA firm. Without having read the contract, which constituted fraud or gross negligence, the managing partner testified in the hearing before the ALJ that the intent was to give me two weeks severence. I appealed to the Board arguing that the waiver contract was proof of the intent of the firm, to which it responded that the Board was not bound by the terms of the contract. I had also argued along the way that because of the language of the contract, or the lack of any indication that the payment was related to my employment, that I was receiving a mere contract payment.

Could it be that because the Board felt I was exploiting a technicality, and that any benefitsd denied goes into the General Fund of this fiscally strapped state?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I don't believe the courts apply a single standard of proof in unemployment compensation cases. For example, in resignation cases, the agency and courts appy a "reasonable person" standard. That is, are the job conditions bad enough to cause a reasonable person to resign withou finding another another job before resigning. In these cases, the conditions have to be pretty bad--unsafe, illegal, immoral or a significant change in employment conditions.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

And in Waite v Chrysler Corp, the Wayne Circuit Court ruled that a disqualification must be supported at least by a "convincing preponderance of evidence."

Steve 4 years ago

You may have been on the Board when my case was decided. Would you like to comment on the Board's obsurd decision?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I may have been on the board when your case was decided, but I don't recall being on the panel that decided your case. The names of the members who voted on your case would be on the copy of the decision you received. The Board of Review is not infallible. Moreover, the Board was stacked with a conservative chairman, Kathy Markman, spouse of conservative Michigan Supreme Court Justice Markman and several conservative members. I dissented on quite a few cases, and quite a few of my dissents became Circuit Court reversals of majority Board decisions. My impression is that the Board of Review under Granholm has applied the law more fairly to claimants. I couldn't comment on your case without reading the full decision and case file.

karl 4 years ago

Ralph,

I took a educational buyout package from one of the big three. Then began going to school full time and taking care of the kids. My employer offered to rehire me as a temporary employee working at a lower wage with no benifits. I agreed to work under these conditions as long as they didn't demand over 40 hrs. a week and I could perform a specific job. After 6 months they had a change of operations and my position wasn't availiable any longer. They offered me another job , a different job, on a different shift, working weekends, and a mandatory 60 hrs. a week. They said either sign up for the new job today or we would'nt be able to use me anymore. The Unemploymrnt agency said although I am disqualified under sec. 29 (1)(a) voulantary quit. Any Ideas?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I would request an Administrative Law Judge hearing and argue that you had good cause for resigning attributable to your employer, namely a significant change in your conditions of employment with which you were not able to meet. The case could go either way. Also, the employer may not show up at the hearing.

Chris 4 years ago

Mr. Deeds:

I was let go from my job - at the time of my dismissal, I was told that they were terminating me. At the time, I was promised & a week later, received severance pay. I filed for unemployment & received it. Then I received a "Notice of Restitution Due". It said that I had been let go for misconduct. It said I was doing personal business on work time, had been given a verbal warning about personal business & continued to make personal business calls on business hours. I protested the determination.

In my protest, I stated that I received severance pay, which I believe contradicts a termination for misconduct. I stated that I had not received any verbal warnings, nor did I recall ANY conversations regarding personal phone calls. I stated that the company did not have any published rule prohibiting personal phone calls. That I did make some personal phone calls, but did so, for the most part, on my time (luch/break periods), which varied day to day as I worked as a manager in a retail operation. (Other employees at the same location also received/made personal phone calls - not necessarily on their own time.) I also stated that my position has not been replaced & believe this shows it was due to lack of work -- which is why I believe I was really let go.

I received an answer to my protest saying I still have the restitution owing. I know I can appeal to the Administrative Law Judge, which I plan to do. What do you think? Any suggestions?

I am currently requesting a copy of my personnel file to see what they have put in it. If they do not have any documentation in the file, does this strengthen my argument?

Thanks for your time.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

It's hard to make an informed comment on any case without reading the case file. However, based on what you told me, without seeing the employer's side of the case I believe that you should be eligible for unemployment compensation. The fact that you were paid severance pay is an indication to me that you were terminated for reasons other than misconduct under the unemployment statute, but does not amount to definitive proof in and of itself of this.

In most workplaces employess are allowed to receive and make personal phone calls so long as they are not excessive. In presenting your case, the following questions may be relevant

1. Was there a formal, written rule of which you were made aware prohibiting making or receiving personal telephone calls at work?

2. If so, what did the rule say?

3. If there was such a rule, was it applied consistently in actual practice? Can the employer show evidence of other employees who were dismissed for making personal calls? Can you show that others made personal calls without being disciplined. A lack of consistency in enforcing a rule would undermine its charges of misconduct.

4. Can the employer show that the calls that you made resulted in significant delays in your work which resulted in harm to the company? That is, at the time you made the calls was their actually work waiting to be done? If so, did harm result from the brief delays from the calls? Can you show or testify that many or most of the calls were made during break or lunch time or lulls in your work assignments.

5. Does the employer have records or evidence that it had warned you about telephone calls at work?

6. Does the employer have records of the dates and times and length of your allegedly excessive personal calls? How many calls does your employer claim that you made?

6. Was the issue of misconduct or excessive telephone calls mentioned at all at the time of your termination? If not it's claim of misconduct to the unemployment agency is belated and suspect.

7. Your success in the administrative law judge hearing will depend on the answers to these questions.

In my opinion, the fact that you were paid severance pay is not definitive one way or the other. Your employer is likely to claim that your eligibility for separation pay is a separate issue from the issue of your misconduct under the unemployment statute. It would seem to be an indication that your alleged misconduct was not deemed to be so serious as to disqualify you from severance pay. This raises the question of if it was not serious enough to disqualify you from severance pay why is it so serious as to constitute misconduct under the unemployment statute.

Chris 4 years ago

Mr. Deeds:

Thank you for your response. I will be requesting an appeal before the administrative judge. Besides requesting a copy of my personnel file in accordance with the Bullard-Plawicki Act, what else should I request? If they don't have anything about the phone calls included in my personnel file, does that make my case stronger? How long do they have to send me the information?

In answer to your questions:

1. No

2. N/A

3. Based on my knowledge, no one has been let go. Others did make personal phone calls - it would be my testimony.

4. I believe most of my calls were made from my cell phone. There were no delays in work that harmed the company. I can't specifically show anything, but can testify to it.

5. I don't believe they have any records of warning. I never was warned or signed anything. If there is anything in my file, I believe it is made up, possibly after the fact.

6. I don't believe they have any proof - I never saw anything. Wouldn't they have to put that in my personnel file?

7. There was absolutely NO mention of the phone calls at all at my termination.

In addition to all the above, I believe the employer also violated federal law-HIPPA. They never sent me a COBRA notice & they do have over 20 employees. They also delayed the start of my insurance that I was entitled to receive as a full-time employee ( I was supposed to get it 4/1 & they didn't start it until 6/1 - which happens to be their open enrollment period). They never gave me my dental insurance as all other full-time employees received. When questioned, they kept telling me that it wasn't that good of coverage & that they were going to be changing insurance - even though all other full-time employees received it! I was having the same amount deducted from my paycheck as the other employees, but not receiving all benefits I was entitled to. One of the things that was agreed upon at my hire was that they would pay for my coverage thru my spouse's insurance until I was eligible to add to theirs, so we were never without insurance & they did cover that until they added us to the medical insurance 6/1, but never added to the dental. Does any of this additional stuff help? Does it help to show that the employer was not above board with this & go toward credibility of the misconduct claim? Or is this a separate issue for me to deal with?

Thanks again for your time!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

The judge would probably just consider those side issues. The issue on which the case will be decided is whether or not you committed misconduct--i.e., in Michigan, that you "wantonly or willfully disregarded the interest of your employer." The burden will be on the employer to prove misconduct. It sounds to me as if that will be hard for them to do. If you are in Michigan, I suggest you get a advocate to help you present your case at the hearing. Also, you have the right to see the unemployment case file at the administrative law judge's office. Reading through the case file will help you and your advocate prepare for the hearing.

Also, make sure you know where the hearing office is located and don't be late for the hearing. They usually start promptly at the time indicated on the Notice of Hearing.

Good luck!

Ann 4 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I was wondering if you receive/answer messages through your contact part of your page.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I haven't had any requests, but I would be happy to consider your request.

Amy 4 years ago

I was working at a motel in Indiana when my daughter was in a very serious car accident. She is 7 years old and witnessed a man die and her best friend in a coma for 3 weeks. She was with the next door neighbor and it happend 120 miles from home. When I got word of the accident I called someone to come in and I left as soon as I could. I spent the next couple days with my duaghter as she was having some serve emotional problems. She seen a threapist for weeks afterwards. I was told my the AGM to take a couple days and not worrry about it. Then the GM called and raised hell with me. I told her I needed to be with my child and she said you need to come to work or quit. I said I wont be in.

3 weeks later I found another job and worked for 2 months and was let go. Unemployment found I was unjustifed fired from the second job. Then I got a letter saying I was disqualified because I quit without good cause. Do you think I have a shot of winning an appeal becasue I was with my injuied child. I am a single mom living with my mother and father. He is disabilied the the lack of income has caused great pains. I have not been able to find another job but an looking very hard.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

It's hard to express an opinion on your chances of winning without an opportunity to read the case file. But based on what you have said I think you should be ruled eligible for unemployment compensation. However, in my opinion, you case would be stronger if you had formally applied for a family leave of absence. In substance that was what you did when you informed your employer that you needed to be off to care for your daughter. I would argue that you did not quit your job, but you were, in effect, denied a leave by your employer and fired because you did not returned to work.

Note: My knowledge of unemployment compensation law is based on my experience in Michigan. UC law is similar in other states but not identical.

Good luck in your appeal. If you think of it, let us know how it turns out.

Ann 4 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I recently lost my job, and tried to collect unemployment, but I was denied because of intentional disregard of my employer's interest...It said in the letter that was I was fired for excessive tardiness. At the store that I worked at, they have a very strict attendance policy...for instance, if you were to be late, no matter for what reason, you would get verbal/written warnings (write-ups)...So some of my warnings that I had received were unfair.

I read in some of your previous answers to questions, that the state takes into consideration your case, if the company you worked for has an attendance point system.

I am going to appeal my determination, and I was wondering what advice you had to give. I am completely on my own, and very lost when it comes to dealing with government issues.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Whether the judge rules in your favor will depend on how many times you were late, taking into account any reasons you have for some or all of the tardinesses. There is no fixed rule on how many tardinesses constitute misconduct. In general, the judges don't have much patience for unemployment compensatin claimants who are habitually tardy. However, tardiness when there is a good reason for being late does not constitute misconduct. The employer should not automatically count a tardiness without giving the employee a chance to explain why he or she was late. If, for example, you had a flat tire on the way to work or a car accident or a bus breakdown or your baby sitter was late, you shouldn't be penalized for being late. However, the more times you are late for whatever reason the more likely the judge is likely to rule that your tardiness constituted misconduct. Normally, the burden in misconduct cases falls on the employer. However, there is a court decision that says that the burden shifts to the employee in cases where there have been frequent absences or tardinesses. Another factor is the period of time over which the tardinesses occurred. The judge should not consider anything a year or more old. The more recent the tardinesses are the bigger the hill you'll have to climb with the judge.

Finally, whether or not someone was hired to replace you could be relevant. If you were not replaced that raises the issue of the employer's motive for dismissing you. Some unscrupulous employers whose business declines and who want to reduce their workforce fire an employee instead of laying one off but call it misconduct when, in reality it's a layoff. They do this in an effort to avoid having unemployment compensation benefits charged against their account.

Good luck!

Amy 4 years ago

I live and filed in Michigan. Another question if I may. When UIA makes a determination I assume one person makes it based on the information supplied. But when an appeal for re-determination is made will the same person make it or someone else?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I don't know for sure. I have a hearing tomorrow, and if I remember, I'll ask the judge. I suspect it could be the same person or another person. It should be set up so that a different person looks at the case for redetermination, but I don't know for a fact that that's the way it works.

Ann 4 years ago

Thank you for your insight.

I was also wondering, ever since I worked there, I never recieved a take home employee handbook. So I never knew what the attendance policy was. When I first started, I was told I had a bunch of paperwork to sign, and that was about it. I do recall signing an employee handbook, but I was never given the opportunity to take it home. But when I asked the store manager about it, she always ignored my question.

Also is there any relevance, that the same strict attendance policy was not enforced with everyone in the store?

Thanks again for your help

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

It's worth mentioning that you never received a copy of the attendance policy. Also it is relevant that the same policy was not evenly applied to everyone. Nevertheless, it, depending on how frequently you were late or absent, it may be hard for you to convince the judge. They are tough on people who are not punctual, and they are not very accepting of excuses for lateness. Best of luck.

kewadinbob 4 years ago

I'm desperate for help in determining if I should be eligible for unemployment in Michigan. I worked for an employer for more than 5 years. I resigned as of August 30, 2007 for a new job. That new job did not work-out and I resigned (after 3 work days), returning to my previous 5-year job on September 13, 2007. I was never taken off payroll at my 5-year job, I never missed a pay period, nor did I lose seniority, insurance, sick or vacation time. The 3-day job never put me on payroll and, instead, just wrote me a small check as a "miscellaneous expense".The 5-year employer then fired me on October 18, 2007. Unemployment first determined that I was eligible for benefits from my 5-year job. That 5-year employer then brought the 3-day job to unemployment's attention. Now, because of the 3-day job, unemployment says I'm not eligible for any benefits from anyone. It's hard for me to believe that I worked for the original 5-year employer 2,030 out of 2,040 days over a 5.5 year period - and am not eligible for any unemployment benefits.Does this sound correct? Any comments or advise are sincerely appreciated.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I'm not able to express a solid opinion on your eligibility without reading the case file. Here are the applicable provisions of the Unemployment Statute:

"Section 29(1) An individual is disqualified from benefits if he or she:

(a) Left work voluntarily without good cause attributable to the employer...However, if the individual has an established benefit year in effect and during that benefit year leaves unsuitable work within 60 days after the beginning of that work, the leaving does not disqualify the individual....

"Section 29(5) [An indivudual is disqualified] If an individual leaves work to accept permanent full-time work with another employer and performs services for that employer..." [ Comment: this apparently is what the Agency is relying on to disqualify you.]

"Section 29(6) "In determining whether work is suitable for an individual, the commission shall consider the degree of risk involved to the individual's health, safety, and morals, the individual's physical fitness and prior training, the individual's length of unemployment and prospects of securing local work in the individual's customary occupation,and the distance fo the available work fromthe individual's residence. Additionally, the commission shall consider the indivusual's experience and prior earnings, but an unemployed individual who refuses an offer of work determined to be suitable under this section shall be denied benefits if the pay rate for that work is at least 70% of the gross pay rate he or she received immediately before becoming unemployed."

Your case is unusual in that you only worked 3 days for the other employer after resigning. Whether you are eligible might depend on why you left the second employer, i.e., whether you could demonstrate that the work there was "unsuitable" and as well on why your original employer terminated you.  

If I were you I would appeal the determination or redetermination and request a hearing before an administrative law judge. It seems to me that a case could be made that your eligibility for benefits is consistent with the purpose of the act and that you deserve the benefit of the doubt, especially if your termination was a layoff because the employer's business declined and you were no longer needed. Good luck.

Jer 4 years ago

If I am a seasonal worker and they laid me off, am I eligible to receive unemployment insurance?

Ralph Deeds 4 years ago

You are not eligible if your employer notified you that he is a seasonal employer, eccept that you may be eligible if you are laid off during the "normal seasonal work period" posted by your employer. Exceptions: construction workers are eligible ro unemployment compensation; workers who have been assured of employment following the seasonal shutdown but who are not re-employed may be eligible for unemployment compensation as if they were not in seasonal employment

(MICHIGAN)

bluto699 4 years ago

i am asking for advice i missed a court hearing and my unemployment was reversed, ive appealed 5 times now and have been denied a court hearing i have evidence that prooves my employer is lying but because i missed the court appointment they will not look at it, i did not intentionally miss this appointment it was a mistake and understand what you said about being on time now they will take no excuses. does this mean i have to hire a lawyer now i dont have 7.000.00 dollars to pay back and did nothing wrong except miss acourt appointment.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I don't have a solution to your problem. You would have to have a pretty strong excuse for missing the hearing.

bluto699 4 years ago

i know now they will not give me a hearing what i am asking is do i have to hire a lawyer now to appeal with the circuit court

bluto699 4 years ago

i just wanted to add to that i am in warren mi and from what it sounds like you did with unemployment and now do i would think you would have some kind of advice on what to do when you have to appeal to the circuit court which is what their telling me but i dont no what to do, i dont get it are you not allowed to give an opinion?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I'm certified by the Unemployment Agency to represent claimants in Administrative Law Judge hearings but not in appeals to circuit court. I am not a lawyer, You don't have to have a lawyer to appeal your case to the circuit court. You can represent yourself. I believe the court which would handle your appeal is the Macomb County Circuit Court which is located in Mt. Clemens. The clerk there can give you information on the procedures. Not many UC cases are appealed to circuit courts and not many of those who appeal are successful. If you can find a lawyer who is familiar with UC law and who doesn't charge an arm and a leg, it would improve your chances of prevailing in your appeal. It's hard for me to express an opinion on your case without reading the case file. Based on what you said about missing the hearning your chances don't look good to me.

bluto699 4 years ago

Thanks i now know i am screwed, this is not right to give a person one chance and thats it.

Thanks for the info

blackpearlstudio 4 years ago

hi i put in for an appeal with unemployment. I resigned from a city job after five years because I felt I was going to be fired. They said I was going to be suspended if I couldn't do the mandatory overtime. I am with lawenforcement (hospital police). I told them I could not do the consistent overtime because i have to pick up my son from childcare. Chilcare is from 8 to 6. I was doing over time 16 hours at least twice a week. I dont have any one to watch my child those many hours. I went to the union with my problem and they told me this is law enforcment and you have to do overtime! Before I resigned from the job I went out on disability for two months I was so stressed out from the overtime and wondering what to do. I knew if i went back to the job they were going to fire me because i couldnt do the overtime so I handed in my papers and resigned. I told them the reason and that i wanted to work but couldn't do the overtime. When I first started the job i signed papers saying i can do overtime but now i have a baby and also back then i never did that much overtime! Do you think the judge we will be in favor. I can work just not that many hours

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Your case could go either way. The general rule is if you quit you don't get unemployment compensation unless there was good cause to caue attributable to the employer which would cause a reasonable person to quit under the circumstances. I would argue that your employer's efforts to force you to work overtime conflicted with your obligation to care for your baby and constituted good cause for you to quit. Moreover, if you can prove that the employer was "going to fire you," that would strengthen your case allowing you to argue that you quit in lieu of being discharged.

Sead 4 years ago

I had a job with ups as a seasonal worker, for 1 month they told me that its a seasonal job and i would be fired at the end of december, they have said that if you do good they will hire you permanently, i have gotten 2 reccomendation letters, i was just wondering if i do quilify for unemployment benefits? Tahnks

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

The law covering seasonal workers is complicated. In brief, if the employer informs the worker that his work is seasonal AND when the employer lays the worker off provides him reasonable assurance that he will be re-employed in the next season, the worker is NOT eligible for unemployment compensation. However, if the employer does NOT re-hire the worker in the following season, the worker, if he meets all other requirements, may be eligible for retroactive benefits for each week that the unemployed worker previously filed for benefits.

So, in my opinion, it would be in your interest to go ahead and apply for benefits and continue to certify during the seasonal layoff, and if you are not re-hired next season you should be eligible for benefits. You have nothing to lose by filing for benefits.

jls 4 years ago

I worked for Ford Motor Co in Louisville, Ky and felt pressured to take a buyout that was offered. I was under the impression that I would be layed off if I didn't take it because I had less than 10 years in and jobs had to be cut. I was denied unemployment due to a voluntary separation and not due to lack of work. I had received information in the mail stating that I may qualify for TAA/TRA benefits due to the nature of my separation. After applying for those benefits, I was denied that too because I had not exhausted my unemployment benefits. I have been fighting and appealing the decision that was made by UI. At this stage I am in the middle of appealing to the Kentucky Unemloyment Insurance Commision. I do feel my separation was due to lack of work. Since I left the company a shift has been cut out and down weeks have followed. It was a very stressful time period near the end of my employment. If I didn't take the buyout I was in fear of being layed off and unable to make ends meet. I would just like some insight on my case. Are there other cases out there like mine who have been granted their unemployment?

Thank you for your time.

js

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Off the top of my head I don't have an answer for you. I'll try research it later today and get back with you. My impression is that you deserve UC but will have a hard time winning your case. However, I'm not familiar with the UC statute and court cases in Kentucky.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I wasn't able to find any court cases like yours. I don't think you'll be eligible because your departure will be considered a voluntary leaving from your job at Ford. However, it doesn't cost anything to appeal the Agency's ruling. There are lots of people in the same boat with you, and I assume there will be other appeals and court decisions. If you do appeal continue to certify by calling Marvin as long as your appeal is open.

Florida 4 years ago

Ralph, I was recently terminated for inappropriate Internet use. I have a side business, where I sale lingerie, massage oils, etc. I have used the company Internet a few times to check on orders. The website is not explicit or X Rated or anything like that. Prior to my termination, I was giving a promotion, when I was told I had got the new position, I was asked not to tell anyone until The supervisor had a chance to get the budget approved. That same day I received 2 packages, I was asked to take a call from HR. I was asked about my business, and was asked to get my packages, when I did, 2 supervisors opened the packeges, and told the HR person what was in them. 1 contained a binder. the other was air freshner. HR then said, it was aginst policy to have packages delv. I explained I was not aware, and that everyone includding the supervisors had packages delv. She said she would investigate and get back with me. ( Let me also mention, I am an African-American) A few days later, I was terminated for inappropriate internet use.  The lady from HR was hispanic,their were 2 other hispanic ladies that were close to the lady in HR that were after me for that position. I have never missed a day from work, I exceeded all of the goals and exspectations that the company exspected of me. I have never been written up or given a warning for anything. My unemployment was denied, I was force to give up my Apartment. I am living off of my savings, I just want to know if this sounds like a act of discremenation, should I appeal the unemployment descion. I was denied for unauthorized internet use, but my discharge papers say, inappropriate internet use. Please help, If their is a lawyer out there that can help me, please contact me. (for other readers, please be advised, the mentioning of the Ethnical background or race, was not used to offend anyone)

thanks   

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

It's hard to offer an opinion about your case without seeing the case file. Here are some questions that have a bearing on your case: 1. Was there a written policy against using the Internet from the office?

2. What did it say?

3. Were you given a copy or otherwise informed of the policy?

4. Was there actually a policy against receiving packages or mail at the office?

5. Was the policy in writing?

6. If so, what did it say? 7. Did you receive a copy of the policy or were you otherwise informed of the policy?

8. Was the policy regarding using the Internet uniformly applied to everyone in the office?

9. Or, to your knowledge did others occasionaly use the company email to communicate with spouses or friends or others?

[I recall a case involving an auto company where a long service employee was fired for emailing his girl friend. And at the hearing his supervisor admitted he also used the email to communicate with his spouse. The claimant had never been warned or informed of the policy. He was found eligible for benefits.]

10. Had you used the company email previously and been warned not to do so?

11. Can you testify honestly that you did not use the email often or at any time neglect your job with your employer? Did you primarily use the email during breaks, lunch or lulls in your work?

12. Can the employer produce a a record of how frequently you used the company email for your business or personal reasons? If they can produce at the hearing a long list if personal or business emails, it will hurt your case.

You know the answers to he above questions and they will help evaluate your chances of being found eligible for benefits. It doesn't cost anything to apply and appeal to an administrative law judge.

Jill 4 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I was working part time at a motel while I attended college full time. When I was hired, my employer knew I was attending college. I started in March as a third shift employee. I told my employer that I would have a new schedule for school in the fall.

I was in my last semester and one of the classes that I needed to take was only offered in the morning monday through thursday. I called the other midnight employee and asked her if it would be alright if I worked thursday through saturday night and she would work during the week, she agreed. I then called my employer and made sure if it was alright with them, they said that was fine.

When school started I noticed that my name was on the schedule for work during the week. I called my employer and she said that she forgot and to switch with the other midnight girl. During the first few weeks of school they had hired a new employer and I was informed that she was a floater. She ended up with my shifts and I was told it was just until she gets the hang of things. At this time the other midnight girl was on a one week vacation, so I thought the new employee was to cover that shift. Just in case, I called my employeer and asked if I would be getting my hours back and she said yes.

I was still getting scheduled during the week and the new girl was getting my weekends. I called againg to see if there was a problem and she said no and that she is just busy and forgot again and to switch.

Needles to say I called my employer to ask for a day off and she informed me that it was too hard to schedule me so they were not going to put me on the schedule for awhile. She also told me that I was not fired and maybe I can work during Christmas break. When I filed for Unemployment benefits it was denied because I was fired for misconduct.

I do have a hearing in March, I was wondering if I have a pretty good case of receiving my benefits?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

It's hard to express an opinion on your eligibility without reading the file and seeing what the employer told the agency. Nothing in what you have said above appears to me to be misconduct. However, they may also have listed other possible disqualifers on the Notice of Hearing such as not available for full time work. There are some Michigan cases that say that to be "available" under the unemployment statute means that employees must be able and willing to accept full time work on any shift. However, you have nothing to lose by going to the hearing and putting in your case. If the hearing is in Michigan, the state will pay for a qualified attorney or advocate to assist you in presenting your case at the Administrative Law Judge hearing.

[Sorry I was slow in replying. I was out of town for three days.]

Jill 4 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

Thank you for responding. When I was hired they knew I was in school and I expressed to them that I wanted only three days a week. They said that was fine becuase they were only looking for someone to work three days a week. Also, only one person works full time and that is the day shift. I was told that I can work anything out with the other midnight employee, they did not care as long as it was covered.

I did request for an advocate to represent me. I received a list of advocates, I called everyone of them and not one person can help me. I have to represent myself.

One more question I would like to ask. I missed my scheduled time to call Marvin. I saw on the UIA website that if I miss a call there were make up days or open calling on Thursday and Friday's. If I miss my scheduled time to call Marvin and call on a make up day, will I be disqualified if I do not have a good enough reason?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

No. The make-up day is to allow claimants another chance to certify if they have failed for any reason to do so on their designated day.

I'm surprised that you have been unable to find an advocate unless your hearing is in a remote part of the state. Many advocates are reluctant to travel very far because of the high price of gasoline and because the Unemployment Agency recently cut the advocate's pay for a hearing and consultation by one-third.

If you can't get an advocate going to your appeal hearing may still be worthwhile. The administrative law judge has the duty of assuring that unrepresented claimants and/or employers get a fair hearing. In other words, the judge will, in effect, act as your representative. Be sure and get to the hearing on time!

Bridget 4 years ago

Hi Ralph,

Finding your site was the best thing that has happened regarding my very difficult unemployment experience beginning last May. Actually, beginning Sept 2006.

I left my job voluntarily, for reasons of ongoing and worsening harasment from a new supervisor with whom a few times I had to go over his head. (he was retaliating)

Unemployment first found in my favor, but $3100.00 later they found in my employers favor. Employer said that I left as they were trying to work things out, which was totally a fabrication. UI wants me to pay the money back.

I appealed to the ALJ and chose an advocate. Once he got the case number, I may have talked to him about 15 minutes in total about my case. I didn't know how to work with him or the process, I left it up to him to take the lead.

I lost my case with the ALJ.

I then appealed to the BOR. (Michigan) I submitted my appeal 8 days before the deadline date.

That was last October. Since then, there have been long periods of silence, until finally they're claiming that they did not receive my appeal until a week after the due date. I have asked for a rehearing, and though I did not send the original appeal certified mail (Grrrrr) I do have proof of date of postage paid. I sent them supporting documentation that I mailed it in a timely manner. Today I just received their denial to hear my case. Because of lack of jurisdiction.

I'm not sure what to do now. My husband and I are both unemployed. We are only making ends meet by cashing in some investments from my x employer. To think about going back in front of the ALJ, is completely overwhelming to me, as I barely could say anything in my own defense, and my avocate didn't seem to care at all.

This whole experience has be devastating, beginning with losing my job. I still don't think anyone has even heard me as to why I left. When they sent the statement of determinations, I'm left wondering where they got their information. It seems that even though I wrote my side of the story, no one is reading it. I did not leave my job because of few simple reasons, it was very complicated. I can't sum it up in 50 words or less.

I can't pay that money back! Will they take our investment money? Will they take the money from the government checks that we all are getting, that is meant to help the economy?

This is extremely upsetting. It seems like no matter what I do, there is a loop hole to disregard it.

I would really appreciate your insight Ralph.

Many Thanks,

Bridget

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I'm sorry to hear that you had such an unfortunate experience with your unemployment compensation. The unemployment statute is like a maze that claimants have to find their way through in a limited amount of time. In my experience, the Unemployment Agency's determinations and redeterminations are frequently incorrect and often as not reversed by administrative law judge decisions. The people who make the determinations should be required to sign their name to their work. It might make them more careful. Some of them seem not even to believe in the unemployment compensation system. The ALJs are usually much better although sometimes their decisions are reversed by the Board of Review. However, the Board of Review sticks pretty close to the rule that appeals must be RECIEVED within 30 days of the date of the ALJ's decision. Someone at the Board should have checked the postmark on your appeal letter because there is precedent for the Board to take jurisdiction of appeals that have been delayed for significant periods in the mail. You could appeal the Board's ruling to the Circuit Court nearest you. You can find out about the procedure from the clerk of the court. A lawyer is not required but having one would be helpful. However, you would probably have to pay him or her more than you are able.

My understanding of the Agency's restitution collection procedures is that they don't turn you over to a collection agency or try to take your house or car. They are agreeable to negotiating stretched out payment plans. If you are unable to do this they will take any money that they figure you owe out of any state income tax refunds that are due to you and/or 20% of any future unemployment compensation payments for which you may be eligible. Also, the unemployment insurance statute provides that "the commission may waive recovery of an improperly paid benefit if the payment was not the fault of the individual and if repayment would be contrary to equity and good conscience."

Drayton v Showcase, No. 64272 (Mich App April 6, 1983). covers waivers of restitution by the Agency.

FACTS: The claimant was determined eligible for unemployment benefits and received $268. On November 7, 1978, "The MESC determined that claimant was in fact, ineligible for such benefits and ordered her to repay the $268."

By virtue of the 1980 amendment in Section 62a effective January 1, 1981, the MESC was give discretion to waive restitution.

DECISION: The MESC must exercise "its discretion on the restitution issue."

RATIONALE: "The Michigan Employment Security Act is remedial. I'ts primary purpose is to relieve the stress of economic insecurity. Godsol v Unemployment Compensation Commisstion v Wayne State University. Where an amendment is designed to correct an existing law, it is generally remedial and will be given retroactive effect, Lahti v Fosterling 357 Mich 578.

"Because the amendment is to be construed retroactively, the MESC had the discretion to waive restitution. However, it has not exercised its discretion.

"We are remanding this case to the MESC to exercise its discretion and to reevaluate its decision in the light of the amendment and this opinion. The MESC must consider [claimant's] indigence in this case in exercising its discretion."

Disclaimer: I am a lay advocate, not a lawyer. I have not read your case file. Therefore I am not able to accept responsibility for the above information although I believe it to be correct.

If you appeal the Board's ruling to a Circuit Court you could cite Bertels v Ironwood Products Co., No. 74-133 AE, Gogebic Circuit Court (January 25, 1978). In that case the Circuit Court held that where an appeal is late because the United States Postal Service took nine days to deliver a letter of appeal between two cities in Michigan, and there is other evidence of poor mail service between the two points, the postal delay constitutes and administrative clerical error.

FACTS: The claimant mailed a letter of appeal in Bessemer, Michigan, on October 23, 1973. The deadline for appealing was October 26, 1973. The letter was delivered to the Appeal Board in Detroit on November 1, 1973. The appeal was rejected as untimely. A subsequent request for reopening was denied by the Referee. The claimant's copy of the order of denial was apparently lost in the mail. The Appeal board affirmed the denial.

DECISION: The claimant has good cause for late appeal.

RATIONALE: "While I assume that the provisions of Regulation 270 relating to administrative clerical errors relates to the M.E.S.C., the fact that the United States Postal Service took nine days to deliver a letter from Bessemer, Michigan, to Detroit, Michigan, containing the Claim of Appeal of the Plaintiff here, it certainly could constitute a clerical error of some kind insofar as the Postal Service is concerned."

"It would appear at least, that mail communication between Bessemer, Michigan, and Detroit, Michigan, leave much to be desired. As stated in the brief of the Defendant, M.E.S.C., the term good cause as used in the Act presents a mixed question of law and fact. This court does not believe that one administrative agency of our State Government can hold the failure of an administrative agency of the Federal government to promptly deliver mail does not constitute good cause for reopening..."

Alternatively you might be able to cite the above case in another request for reopening of your case or for the Board to take jurisdiction. I'm an advocate and we don't handle anything beyond the ALJ hearings. And I'm rusty on the appeals procedures beyond the ALJs.

I'm disappointed to hear that your advocate apparently didn't devote sufficient time to your case. I would not hesitate to let the Agency know about his or her lack of preparation if that is the case. However, resignations are not easy cases to win because the case law presumes that a reasonable person will find another job before quitting the one he has unless there is a very good reason for quitting attributable to the employer, AFTER, the employer has been notified of the complaint and given the opportunity to address it.

Bridget 4 years ago

Dear Ralph,

Your speedy and extensive reply has given me hope that there just might be competent, caring people with integrity in leadership positions in our State. I only wish I had chosen you to be my advocate when I needed one!

I have printed your reply and will take some time to study it. I really appreciate your help Ralph.

Its so unfair. They can say this without proving it with the postmark. I mailed my appeal 5 days before the due date. I can't help it if the mail delivery had problems.

In all honestly, had a strong feeling that the delay was an admin error in lansing where I sent it. Because the lady (maryanne) who I spoke with last November even said "there's been an error somewhere with the transcription. But Don't worry, they will get to it." I said " I'm very concerned that they won't look at my case." She said "Oh....you're being foolish." She brushed me off saying I'll hear from them in four more weeks. (At that point, it had already being three weeks since I mailed it.) She was extremely degrading.

For the record, the last thing I wanted to do was to leave my job that I had every intention and hope of retire from. I was very rooted in the company. I was ultimately worn down and provoked to either leave or go "postal". I DID try to resolve the issue at least five times within the year prior to leaving. In other words I was crying for help for a year and no one would step in and help me with that supervisor.

I'm sure that any resonable person would have resigned. In fact, several others before me did just that.

Thank you very much for taking the time to help me with this! It really does help.

Bridget

Denise 4 years ago

My husband a union sheet metal worker who is now laid off. He is now recieving unemployment. He is thinking of going back to college to pursue another career becaues he keeps getting laid off more and more becuase of the economy. If he goes back to college part time while he is laid off will he still be eligible for unemployment? One of the questions MARVIN ask if is you are attending school. We can't afford to lose any of his compensation so we just would like to know.

Thanks for any help you can give. Denise

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

In Michigan the answer to your question is "It depends."

Here are three cases on the issue:

In Duell v St Joseph Hospital the ruling was in favor of the claimant. The Board of Review held that "A full-time college student's credible testimony of willingness to change courses or quit school, to accept full-time employment, is competen t proof of the claimant's eligibility.

FACTS: The claimant resigned his position at a Grand Rapids hospital because he was living, and attendint full-time college courses in East lansing. He testified he would change his class schedule or drop out of school in order to accept permanent full-time work.

Rationale: "The referee, in his reasons for decision, indicated that he tended to believe the claimant's testimony with respect to dropping his classes if he had been offered full-time work."

The Board of Review: "The majority of the Board of Review believes that the case entitled Michael S. Breshgold v Michigan Employment Security Commission, Civil Action No. 77-708893-AE (Wayne County Circuit Court 1978) is controlling. The holding in the Breshgold case states that because a claiman is a full-time student does not categorically mean that the student has necessarily placed limitations on his availability so as to remove him from the labor market. Under that case, the testimony of the claimant, to the effect that he would adjust his hours or quit school to accept full-time employment, would be sufficient, if credible."

Breshgold v MESC, No. 77-708893AE "In order to be eligible for unemployemnt benefits, an individual must be unemployed and make reasonable efforts to find work. An individual need not be idle and is not required to look for work daily for 8 hours a day.

FACTS: Claimant was enrolled as a full time student, taking daytime college courses (17 credits). He asserted he was available for full time work and would rearrange his class schedule or quit school if he found full-time employment. He testified that he had worked full-time and attended school full-time in the past. The referee found, and the Board of Review majority agreed, that claimant was primarily a student and was not genuinely attached to the labor market because he only searched for employment when this did not interfere with his schooling.

DECISION: rEMAND FOR HEARING ON CLAIMANT'S JOB SEEKING EFFORTS.

RATIONALE: Where a claimant asserts he is actively seeking work, it is incumbent on the trier of fact to explore those job seeking efforts. Availability cannot be determined solely by the fact that a claimant is pursuing educational goals while unemployed. Attachment to the labor market is largely a function of the individual's efforts to obtain employment.

Schontala v Engine Power Components, Ottawa Circuit Court, No. 86-8221-AE October 1987

Circuit Court holding: Where claimant asserted he was available for full time work but showed by his actions that, in fact, he was not, he did not meeth the availability requirement for eligibility.

FACTS: After working full time for the employer for over a year, claimant requested reduction to part-time status but shortly thereafter was laid off due to lack of work for part-time employees. Claimant was attending school and placed numerous applications for part-time work. He applied for benefits while still in school when he could not find any part-time work. Claimant asserted that he would accept full-toime employemtn but Referee did not find his testimony credible.

DECISION: Claimant is ineligible for benefits.

RATIONAL: Determination fo genui9ne attachment to the labor market is made by means of a subjective test which looks at the actions of the individual. In this case, claimant quit his full time employment, requested part-time status, enrolled in school nearly full-time, and subsequently applied for part-time work.

Your husband has a bit of a leg up because he was laid off and was found eligible for unemployment compensation. He did not request part-time work or quit his job to go back to school. Enrollment in school, per se is not disqualifying. He should not hesitate to enroll in school part-time and continue to certify to Marvin that he is available and seeking employment. If his availability for work is questioned by an employer appeal because he is in school, his position should be that he is continuing to look for full-time employment while he is in school and that he would be willing to adjust his school schedule if need be in order to accept a job. He should also keep track of his efforts to seek employment so that he would be able, if need be, to testify credibly that he is available for work.

Phil 4 years ago

Mr. Deeds: You provide a wealth of helpful information for folks in Michigan. I was wondering if you know of a similar resource for Indiana. I have a friend who was just denied her benefits in her first appeal. She has 18 days to submit an appeal to this decisioin. She is interested in knowing if there are advocates for this purpose in Indiana, as there are in Michigan? The advocacy support system was very helpful in my winning a lengthy appeal back in 2001-2002 in Michigan. A Google search has not revealed any similar support system in Indiana. Any information you can provide wopuld be greatly appreciated and extremely helpful.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Sorry, I do not. Unemployment compensation laws and court cases are similar from state to state but not identical. Michigan court cases do not apply in Indiana. However, the court precedents there may be similar. I doubt that Indiana has an advocates program. Michigan is one of the few states that has such a program, and there are rumors that Michigan is going to terminate our program due to budget constraints. Our compensation was recently cut by one-third. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

I would encourage your friend to appeal for an administrative law judge hearing. In Michigan the Unemployment Agency's determinations are frequently reversed by Administrative Law Judges (referees). In Michigan the ALJs are obligated to assist unrepresented claimants to get a fair hearing. That's probably true in Indiana.

Phil 4 years ago

Thank you for your prompt reply. I will keep looking.

Denise 4 years ago

I wrote you about a week and a half ago about my husband going to college when while he is laid off. He has gone back to college and when he called in for his unemployment he had to call the 800 number to talk to them about it. They said they would have to investigate whether he can still work fuill time while he goes to college. He told them he is only going part time and most of that will be online. The classes he has to take on campus can be taken in the evenings or at night. He told them all this and she said it would take a minimum seven to 10 days to investigate and then they would make a determination. We just wondered what that means. They never asked him what school he attended. He is a union worker so he is called back to work from the union hall. He told them he would give them the number so they could verify with the hall his normal working hours but they didn't want to info. So we wondered how do they investigate it and how long will it take. And once they make the determination how long will we have to wait for the check we should have received last week. We do live in Michigan. I forgot to mention that before.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

I don't know how long the investigation will take. Usually, their investigations consist of checking with the employer whose account is being charged to see if they have any objections. The people who make the Agency's determinations and re-determinations make a plenty of mistakes. If the determination goes against your husband I would recommend that he appeal, requesting a hearing before an administrative law judge. Their decisions are usually much better than Unemployment Agency determinations. Your husband's case is not a slam dunk, but in my opinion, the law is on his side. He will have to convince the judge that he is available and looking for work in line with his experience and ability and that he will adjust his part-time course load if necessary to accept a job offer. Good luck. [If you think of it, keep us posted on how your husband's case turns out. We all learn from experience. I would be interested and perhaps others as well who access this web page.]

Denise 4 years ago

Hi, I am just updating you about the situation with my husband's unemployment. He did end up being able to continue receiving his unemployment. He called after the initial 10 days were up and they said it was resolved but somehow got lost in the system and they would send out the check the next day they apoligized for the delay. So everything did work out. Thanks for the information.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Glad to hear that. Thanks for the update.

Lee 4 years ago

Dear Ralph,

I have a question as to whether I would receive unemployment compensation. I recently have been terminated from my job due to "Destruction of company property". A touch screen diagnostic computer that is used everyday by 8 different people, including myself, accidently broke when I attempted to use it. When I turned the unit on I found it was not responding and I noticed the screen was slightly discolored. When I pressed on the touch screen it cracked. My employer wanted me to pay for half the cost of the unit because he felt I broke it. I did not agree to pay for it so my employment was terminated.

It says in my emploee handbook "Employees causing damage to the company's property and equipment may be subject to disciplinary action up to and including immediate termination. This includes loss or damage due to carlessness, negligence, improper use, or unsafe practices. Monetary reimbursement to the company may also be required if applicable."

Do you think I am eligable for unemployment even though my employer gave me the option to pay for half the cost and I did not take it? Also, do you think my claim wil be denied for misconduct even though I feel the unit accidently broke?

I appreciate your time answering my question.Thanks,Lee

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Yes. I think you should be eligible. To disqualify you the company would have to show that you intentionally damaged the screen. The standard of misconduct is wilful or wanton disregard of the employer's interest. Tell the unemployment agency exactly what happened, emphasizing that 1. The damage may have been caused by one of the other people who use the computer and 2. You caused the crack accidentally, not intentionally, while trying to get the computer to work. If the agency's determination and/or re-determination go against you, appeal to an administrative law judge hearing. I've seen cases where truck drivers had accidents causing thousands of dollars of damage and were found eligible for UC. If you think of it let us know how your case turns out.

Elliot 4 years ago

I was offered a voluntary severence package with the company I worked for for over 10 years.I asked the question before I took their offer If I do not take this package,is there a chance you would have future layoffs with no severence package offered? They said yes,so I took the package.I feel I did not quit,but was sort of pressured into making the decision to take the severence package.At the end of my severence I should be able to get unemployment benefits.The company even said I could apply when I was considering.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Eligibility is determined by the UC agency, not the employer. It would be helpful to your case, however, if the company did not protest your eligibility for benefits. You will have to convince the agency that 1) the company approached you with the offer and 2) gave you the impression that you would be laid off if you didn't accept the offer. After you apply for benefits, your employer will receive a request for information about the circumstances and terms of your separation. There are a lot of people in Michigan in your circumstances who may be applying for benefits, and there will likely be appeals in some of these cases. I have not seen any recent court decisions yet. However, in 1990 in Coleman v. MESC, the court of appeals ruled that where a claimant who is given a choice among reasonable alternatives decides to accept a "buyout" he is subject to disqualification." In this case a GM employee at a warehouse that was being closed was offered three alternatives: 1) accept a transfer to another GM location 50 miles away; 2) a layoff of one year with benefits; 3) a buy-out of $50,000. The claimant chose the buyout. He was disqualified from eligibility for UC for "voluntary leaving." My impression is that your chances of being declared eligible are less than 50-50, but you have nothing to lose by applying for benefits.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Elliott, here is an excellent article from today's Detroit Free Press by Michael Harper and Joshua Riley on the effect of buyouts on eligibility for unemployment compensation benefits. I agree with the authors' conclusions that the law is unclear and that workers who accept buyouts should be eligible for benefits. Read the article here:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080425/OPINION02/804250339/1068/OPINION

Joan 4 years ago

Hello Ralph! My husband's employer wants to cut his pay 20% because he's having a slow period. It's a small company and his employer has over-hired. No one else in the co. is affected. My husband is his General Manager and highest paid. He's been there six years. The employer will do anything possible to avoid paying unemployment taxes and virtually refuses to fire people. We feel his is cutting his pay to make him quit, thus effectively keeping my husband from filing for unemployment benefits. Are individuals typically successful in filing in this type of situation?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

Yes. There are several court decisions ruling that a significant pay cut is "good cause for resignation attributable to the employer." In "Wasolaskus (Tom's Grandville Station, 1978 BR55248" the Board of Review ruled that "A 17 percent reduction in wages is good cause for voluntarily leaving part-time work."

RATIONALE: jack Desser, d/b/a/ Jack Desser Biscuit Company v Appeal Board, Wayne County Circuit , No. 324-748 (July 5, 1962) held that a 'substantial reduction' in wages can constitute 'good cause' for quitting one's employment. The 'substantial' reduction in Desser consisted of a 20 percent reduction in claimant's gross commissions. The curtailment of hours imposed by employer upon claimant in this case would have reduced his income by approximately 17 percent if he had continued his employment. The reduction in wages was 'substantial.'

"The part-time nature of claimant's employment does not, per se alter the substantiality of the reduction in claimant's wages."

Mike 4 years ago

An employee was terminated because it was found he violated company policies, including falsification of time sheets, saying he was at work when he was really observed at a bar and at home, etc... We appealed the admin judge's determination and provided proof of above, yet the admin judge ruled in his favor again on the redetermination. I know we can appeal, but just what does it take to prove gross misconduct? Do you think presenting our findings to a judge in erson will have any bearing on the outcome?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

You may well get a better decision in an administrative law judge hearing. It's not at all uncommon for Unemployment Agency redeterminations to be reversed in administrative law judge hearings. The agency employees who make the determinations and reteterminations are not judges. Their workload is big, the information on which they base their decsions is often incomplete and conflicting with the result that they make a lot of mistakes.

You have nothing to lose by requesting a hearing before an Administrative Law Judge. However, the burden is on you to prove with more than hearsay evidence that the misconduct occurred. This means that you will have to provide in person testimony at the hearing establishing the facts on which your decision to discharge the employee were based. Intentionally falsifying timesheets are, in my opinion, misconduct under the unemployment compensation statute. But the burden of proof is on the employer.

Jeremy 4 years ago

Hi, I left an 8 year job in construction to take another job. After 5 months the new employer told me my position was no longer financially possible. I started my own business now in construction 4 weeks ago, but ut will be sometime before I actually make an income from this business. I have been receiving UC and was told I am eligible so long as I don't have an income, even though I own my own business. Is this true? If so, when I do my first job do I tell MARVIN I am working?

Thanks

Jeremy

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

The court cases go both ways on these kinds of cases depending on the facts. In order to continue your eligibility for UC you must continue to be attached to the labor market, that is seeking work and willing to accept work in your profession.

In Bolles v. Employment Security Commission the Michigan Supreme Court held..."the test properly to be employed is that of genuine attachment to the labor market."

Facts: Claimants were laid off by employer. Each had been trained in watch repair work and each had at one time or another engaged in this occupation. Consequently, they pooled their resources, rented a building, remodeled and redecorated, and opened it for business under the name of Muskegon Jewleers. They advertised and they did what work they could get. It wasn't much. Each averaged about a dollar a day over the period in question. During the period of 7 weeks of operation claimants reported a total gain each of around $60...During this time both claimants were actively seeking work in industry; both aplied, unsuccessfully, for jobs referred to them by the Employment Security Commission, and both drew their unemployment compensation.

Rationale: ....all courts would undoubtedly agree that the Act was not intended to place a premium on idleness, to stifle initiative, or to penaliize a laid-off worker's attempt to make his time economically productive. The claimants, subsequent to their layoff continued seeking work. Each was ready, willing and able and anxious to continue work in industry. They were genuinely attached to the labor market, neither casually nor as a matter of transition. Their meager efforts to augment their unemployment checks did not break their attachment to the labor market.

In High Scope Educational Research Foundation v Easton the Washtenaw Circuit Court held

Where an unemployed person becomes the proprietor of an antique shop, but remains able and available and continues to seek work, the claimant is still attached to the labor market.

Facts: The claimant was laid off from full time employment. While still unemployed, he invested $3500 and opened an antique shop. The claimant continued to look for work at numerous places, made arrangements for someone to fill in for him if necessary, and was willing to give up the shop if he found suitable employment.

Decision: The claimant was genuinely attached to the labor market.

Koehler v General Motors, Oakland Circuit Court held

where a claimant worked full-time for a self-owned business he was not unemployed within the meaning of Section 48 of the MES ACt. Moreover, when a claimant is preoccupied with developing his own business, putting in hours equivalent to full-time work, he is not available within the meaining of Section 28(1)c.

FACTS: Claimant was a part-owner of an irrigation company. While collecting unemployment benefits, the claimant worked for his company in excess of 40 hours per week and received distributions from profits. During this period claimant sought other work but his efforts were infrequent and indifferent. Claimant did not receive a paycheck from this company but did pay personal expenses out of the business's account.

DECISION: The claimant was not unemployed within the meaning of the Act. Claimant was properly subject to the penalties for fraud.

RATIONALE: Where the claimant is not ready, willing able and anxious to resume work in industry, his efforts should be considered startup as opposed to self-help. With respect to availability, the claimant's indifferent job search efforts established he was not truly attached to the labor market and therefore not available within the meaining of the Act. In light of his representations to the Agency that he was not employed and his failure to disclose his connection to or responsibilities with his business, the assessment of penalties and sanctions was correct.

theo12 4 years ago

Hey Ralph,

I need your help. Im a college student thats been with popular retail hardware company for almost 2 years wiht a great work record. I transfered stores back to my home town for the summer. Today I just got accused of stealing money because i am a cashier currently but i know i have never stole a single penny. They even showed me the tape they had of me but there was no proof and i am inncent but regardless the money is gone somehow and for some reason beyond me they told me not to come back. I have no idea what to do. I need money desperately and If i cant find another job do i have a responsible claim for unemployment? the way i see it is 'Fired without out reasonable cause'? What do to you think.? I need to know.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

You have nothing to lose by filing for unemployment compensation. The company will have to prove their charge against you. You will probably have to through a determination, a redetermination and an appeal to and administrative law judge hearing because the Unemployment Agency will probably go a long with your employer's accusation.

scottfree 4 years ago

well ralph.... i have a question. what happens when a person gets caught receiving earnings and also claiming unemployment benifits at the same time? what are the steps involved after receiving the predetermination notification. not contesting the earnings nor the benefits. the facts that they have are correct with the records that a person has. any help is greatly appreciated.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

You won't go to jail, but there are fairly sever penalties in Michigan and most states for intentional fraud in applying for UC benefits.

scottfree 4 years ago

in most cases do they require you to repay 4x the amount? or in all cases? yikes!!!! no question they are correct in their findings.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

The Michigan statute provides for the following penalties for "knowing false statements":

If the amount obtained as a result of the knowing false statement is less than $500, the commission may recover the amount obtained and may also recover damages equal to 2 times that amount.

$500 or more--recover the amount obtained and damages equal to 4 times that amount.

$1,000 to $25,000--If the amount obtained or withheld from payment as a result of theknowing false statement or representation or the knowing and willful failure to disclose a material fact is $1,000 or more but less than $25,000, then one of the following:

--Imprisonment for not more than one year

--Performance of community service of not more than 1 year but not to exceed 2080 hours.

--A combination of community service and imprisonment that does not exceed one year

I don't have any experience with these kinds of cases. My impression is that jail sentences are uncommon, but that the Unemployment Agency does take steps to recover the overpayments and quadruple damages. If you don't have the money to make full restitution, I believe they allow installment payments. Also, they arrange to deduct amounts you owe from any Michigan income tax refunds which may be due you in the future and a portion of any future unemployment compensation payments for which you may be eligible.

Trevor 4 years ago

I was fired from my job,due to me not taking the employers verbal abuse and threats and standing up for myself.I filed for unemployment like i was suppose to,however my employer claimed i quit,which isnt true,i even called numerous times over a 2 week period to see if i could come back to work,my employer never returned my phone calls or messages.

I filed a protest of determination and faxed it over to unemployment,i called after about 2 weeks and they said they received it and i'd hear something within the next 4 weeks,well today the 4 weeks was up and i heard nothing so i called back unemployment and they stated they never received my fax for the protest,4 weeks earlier i was told they did,my question is what do i do now,besides re-faxing it,because of their mistake(i have the reciept or copy showing i faxed it) am i going to have to wait an additonal 4 weeks again to hear anything back from them,im behind in bills now as it is because of this long dragged out process with unemployement and my former employer lying.

Is there anything i can do to speed up the process or hear something back as soon as possible?? I cant afford to not recieve my unemployement or wait another 4 weeks to hear something. Thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

You may want to call the Unemployment Agency and explain the situation to the representative again, and then follow up with another fax and a registered letter with a copy of your fax and and receipt, addressed, by name to the person with whom you talked. Keep a good record of all telephone and written contacts with the agency. If that doesn't work you may find it helpful to contact your state representative and/or senator in the legislature. If you can get either of them to contact the Employment Agency it might speed up your case.

Carol 4 years ago

Hi,

I was fired in Oct 2007 because I was hurt on the job and the agency refused to reasonably accomadate me for a permenate work related physical disability. I was able to recieve unemployment benifits. Then a MSPB judge ordered the agency to return me back to duty, give me back pay, and give me reasonable accoms. The agency then offered me a position that was no where the same as I had in the past. It was a 12:00 - 8:00 pm shift I had been working 8:00-$4:30pm, it was a posted position at a higher level of pay than I had recieved in the past and the new hires recieve the higher pay, but I was getting payed less than the new employess and I have 10 years of service. I also had filed an EEO because of discrimmination of a known phys. disability. The EEO was accepted into the formal stage in Oct 2007 just before they fired me. So the only way that I would be allowed to return back to work was on the night shift, work for less money but do the same job, and drop the EEO complaint. The agency also payed back the unemployment benefits from my back pay befor they payed me anything. So now unemployment says that I have to pay back all of the taxes because the agecy says it's the employees responseability. So know I have gotten fired again for not taking the agency's offer and I tried to reapply for unemployment and not sure yet if it's been approved. But I also had the taxes taken out of each check and the agency took out all taxes from my retro pay. So am I still responable to pay the taxes a 3rd time?? And because I refused to drop the EEO complaint will I be able to collect unemployment??

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 years ago

You've asked several questions that are beyond my knowledge and experience. With regard to your last question about collecting unemployment compensation-- wether or not you are eligible will depend on all the facts of your case. I don't believe "not taking the agency's offer" would constitute disqualifying misconduct under the unemployment compensation statute. It doesn't cost anything to apply. Sorry I'm not able to provide you with better answers to your questions. Good luck.

LotsofFaith 3 years ago

I worked for a company for almost 3 years and then was suddenly let go for "falsification of company records". Basically that means that on my intial application with the company (3 years ago) I did not list I was terminated from a previous employer (which i was). I live and work in the state of michigan. Will the unemployment department deem me as ineligble for unemployment becuase of this?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Material falsification on an employment application is considered disqualifying misconduct. However, after a reasonable period of satisfactory employment some judges may not rule that you are ineligible for unemployment compensation based on an omission on your employment application. Sometimes employers who need to cut costs fire people and call it misconduct rather than a layoff. If I were representing you at a hearing I would ask the employer witness 1. Why it took so long for them to discover the omission from your application and 2. Whether or someone was hired to replace you after you were fired or whether your duties were reassigned to someone else already working for the company. If someone was not hired to replace you that would be an indication that the employer's action was in reality a layoff cloaked in the guise of misconduct. I think your case could go either way. Probably the odds are that you will be ruled ineligible. However, it doesn't cost anything but your time to file an appeal and go before an administrative law judge.

MamaBug 3 years ago

My husband was employed at a company that contracted him out to a third party as part of their salesforce. The third party decided to 'let go' him and a number of other contractors. In a meeting with his manager, he was given the option to resign and accept two weeks pay (and, incidently, to be the agent responsible for returning samples, literature, and the company car) or be fired. At that meeting, he gave no commitment either way. Later, when he finally was able to talk with HR he found out that the manager had already stated that he had submitted a verbal resignation and that this is what they would tell unemployment when contacted.

My husband has filed and has consistently stated in the 'reasons for' sections that the reason for his resignation was 'resigned after being told company and third party I was contracted to no longer needed my services'. His actual resignation letter also states that these are the circumstances of termination. Under these circumstances - essentially a forced resignation - is it typical to be denied benefits? We are in Washington State and have never had difficulty before with benefits as a result of termination, I'm just worried that the label 'resigned' forced upon him is going to mess things up.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I am in Michigan, and I am not familiar with the law in Washington. However, most states are similar. In Michigan I would advise your husband to appeal the UC agancy's determination to an administrative law judge hearing. Employers here sometimes use the same old "resignation trick" in an effort to disqualify people from unemployment compensation. He obviously didn't resign and should be disqualified from benefits only for the two weeks' separation pay, or possibly only for the week in which he received the check. Your husband should appeal the decision in my opinion. At any rate he would be eligible in Michigan. Good luck.

Joe R 3 years ago

I held an appointed supervisory position with a municipality for 11 years. When a new administration was elected, I was first renamed as a "temp" assignment with all benefits and salary to remain the same, and on Jan. 4, 2008 I was released.

I filed and was rejected on the grounds of Sec 42 which excludes "appointed" advisory positions. However, I was a full time supervisor, not in any "policy" capacity. I filed my redetermination request over ten weeks ago, and have heard nothing officially about my status or right to appeal. When I call to inquire I'm told that my case is before a "special" hearing board that investigates. I'm told I can do nothing until they "meet". I've talked to supervisors, and legal advocates who cannot understand the delay. All requirements have been met concerning call ins and paperwork deadlines, but still no response. Is a lawyer my only recourse? (btw, I inadvertently sent a copy of this to your email address, sorry for the error.)

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

In my opinion, you should be eligible. I don't have any suggestion for speeding up the process other than, possibly, contacting your state representative and/or senator and ask them to light a fire under the Unemployment Agency.

Needing help 3 years ago

I am in the mortgage business in Michigan. Unfortunatly my company closed my branch. I was approved for unemployment. After 12 weeks, I accepted a customer service position an hour and 20 minutes from my home. I tried very hard to make this work, I had worked there for almost 3 months. Unfortunatly, I could not afford to buy gas to go to work. I was spending $164.00 a week in gas. I have reapplied, stating that I had quit my job, due to distance was greater from my home. It has been over 3 weeks, and money is none. Unemployment keeps telling me to wait 6 weeks. Has anyone been approved for a situation like this?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Yes, in my opinion, with gasoline prices as high as they are, you had good reason to quit your job. The law on this is not entirely clear on how far or how long the commute has to be to justify quitting. I don't have time right now, but I'll do a little research and follow up on this comment. The Unemployment Agency is swamped with cases, so the delay doesn't surprise me. If you aren't ruled eligible for benefits, I suggest you ask for a redetermination and, if necessary an appeal to an administrative law judge hearing. Good luck.

Needing Help 3 years ago

Thank you! Any suggestions is very much appreciated.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Needing Help: I was only able to find three cases somewhat similar to yours.

1. Laya v Cebar Construction, 101 Mich App 26 (1980)

The court of appeals held that "voluntary" (leaving) must connote a decision based upon a choice between alternatives which ordinary men would find reasonable.

FACTS: The claimant lived in Warren, Michigan with his family. In 1976 he was laid off and could not find work in his local area. Through his union he learned of work in Cincinnati, Ohio. He accepted the job, lived in Ohio during the week and drove home (272 miles) on weekends. The distance created difficulties within the family and trouble in making the drive. He quit after 25 days.

Decision: Claimant is not disqualified for benefits.

RATIONALE: Where the claimant was not faced between alternatives that ordinary persons would consider reasonable, his choice was "no choice at all," and his leaving was involuntary and non-disqualifying.

2. Gilliam v Chrysler Corp. 72 Mich App 538 (1976)Court of appeals holding: In determining the suitability of offered work, the loss of recall rights to local work must be considered. Further, a job is not automatically suitable because the distance is less than 45 miles.

FACTS: The claimants lived in Monroe and Newport and worked in Trenton. One commuted 15 miles each way and the other drove 21 miles. Both were laid off and subsequently notified of work at other plants. The Monroe resident lived 44 miles from the Hamtramck plant at which he was offered work. The New port resident was called by a Detroit plant, 42 miles from his home. Both claimants refused the offered work, citing the distance. If the claimants had accepted the offered work they would have lost their recall rights at the Trenton facility.

DECISION: The claimants are not qualified for refusal of work.

RATIONALE: "In determining whether distance makes a job offer unsuitable the commission, referee and appeal board should consider where relevant, the age and health of the individual employee, the hours during which travel will be required, the time involved in traveling, traffic conditions and availability nd reliability of a means of transportation, as well as any other facts which may relate to the distance factor and its bearing upon the suitability of the employment."

"Offered employment which is otherwise suitable may be unsuitable if it jeopardizes good prospects for recall to local work in an individual's customary occupation."

3. Korhonen v Brown and Winckler, No. 23110, Ingham Circuit Court

Circuit Court Holding: Where an individual leaves nearby work and moves 75 miles away for personal reasons, the separation is disqualifying but a refusal to return to the former employment is not disqualifying.

FACTS: The claimant worked as a legal secretary. She was disqualified for voluntarily leaving a Lansing position in order to move from Lansing to Northville. The claimant requalified, but refused an offer of recall to the Lansing job, because the distance from her home was 75 miles.

DECISION: The claimant is not disqualified for refusal of work.

RATIONALE: "The appellants assert that she had a job here in Lansing which was open, available to her which she could come to and earn a wage. "That, therefore, she was not seeking work pursuant to the statute because she did nto accept the employment with them.

"The Court finds, contrary to the assertion of the appellants, however, that she need not be available for work in Lansing because of the distance which exists between Northville and Lansing."

"The Commission correctly found, the referee correctly found, and the Board of Review correctly found that the work offered to the claimant by the appellant was unsuitable because of the distance involved which she would hav to travel to in order to enjoy that work."

[The reasoning in the above cases could be applied to your case depending on the facts: distance and time of commute, cost of gasoline, etc. Basically, your eligibility will be based on whether your decision to quit was what a reasonable person would do under the circumstances. If you are determined not to be eligible I suggest you request a redetermination and, if necessary appeal to an administrative law judge hearing. Be sure to appeal within the time limit. The time limits are enforced very strictly. Good luck!]

la donna 3 years ago

hi mr. deeds at my last job we had what was called a performance bank wich held 1oo points every time your written up for company infractions points are deducted from your bank when your banktotals 0 or goes in the negative you are terminated this happend to me. my employer claims i QUIT before a disiplanary conference was held and unemployment has denied me twice but i did have aconference and was told i was terminated at that conference in front of union representation and at that conference was told i could resign in lieu of termination and that way would still recive vacation pay i had accrued i was also told by my employer and by my union rep it would not affect me getting unemployment i have a copy of the write up where it states i had a conference and who was present but it does not state that i was fired just that i was assesed 10 points leaeving me with -9points no where does it say i was fired i did sign a letter of volantary resignation do i have a case?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I recommend you request an administrative law judge hearing. It sounds to me like you were fired and tricked into signing a resignation letter in an effort to keep you from drawing unemployment compensation. Your case will depend on how serious the incidents(s) for which you were disciplined are.

LaDonna 3 years ago

Thank you very much

AndyBaker profile image

AndyBaker 3 years ago

Very useful information - thanks.

Big Sky Jeff 3 years ago

Mr Deeds,

Would greatly appreciate your imput on my case. Was terminated from my job on May 1st of this year. My former employeer sstaed"it just wasn't working out" Well i knew that wasn't the real reason....the reason was because of a traffic accident I was involved in using a company vehicle on April 18 of this year. I filed for UC(Florida) and received a letter stating what my weekly benefit would be. On the 27th of May I received a later denying my benefits because of misconduct. I have since appealed that decision and my referee hearing via telephone is July 1st. I was cited for the accident but there was really know way I could avoid the accident...believe me I tried. I certainly had no intention of getting in that accident and up until that time had a flawless driving record(37yrs of no tickects) I have studied the statute and Florida case laws regarding matters such as this and I feel I have a pretty good case. I have no prior history of damaging company property and to my knowledge have never been reprimanded or written up for any violations. Would appreciate your insight on this matter. Thanks.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

In Michigan you would almost certainly ruled eligible for Unemployment Compensation. I'll look up a couple of cases and give you the reasoning. The burden on the employer is to show (intentional) "wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest." In the case of motor vehicle accidents, this would require proof (a ticket or testimony) that the accident resulted from a violation of the law or serious negligence of some sort. Also, prior instances of accidents or violations would be taken into account.

A Michigan Unemployment Agency bullitin says the following:

"What court cases have said: Unemployment compensation cases say that to be misconduct, the actions by the worker must be harmful to the interests of the employer, and must be done intentionally or in disregard of the employer's interests. Actions that are grossly negligent may be enough to disqualify a worker from unemployment benefits. A worker who commits many infractions may be disqualified, even if none of the infractions, alone, would be misconduct resulting in disqualification. However, the final incident in a series, for which the worker is fired, must itself show qan intentional disregard of the employer's interests.

However, if the actions by the worker show merely the worker's inability to do the job correctly, or show an isolated case of bad judgment or negligence, then the worker will not be disqualified. (This does not necessarily mean the employer did not have a good reason for firing the worker.) Acts committed by the worker that have no connection with the work will not result in disqualification if the employer fires the worker for them.....If either the employer or the unemployed worker appeals the case to an Administrative Law Judge, then the employer must prove that the worker engaged in misconduct and that the misconduct occurred in connection with the work. Except in the most serious offenses, the employer must also prove that the worker was aware of the employer's work rules and that the actions of the worker were harmful to the employer...."

NOTE: The above applies in Michigan. The law may differ somewhat in Florida.

ted 3 years ago

how long after i get laid off do i have to collect? is it to late if i was laid off in oct 2006? thks for your help

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

There is no provision for payment of benefits for periods prior to the filing of a timely and valid application in accordance with your unemployment agency's procedures.

Tee 3 years ago

My recent protest of a determination was also denied due to the fact my former employer states i quit when he actually fired me, another thing is unemployment says my protest wasn't received by the agency in the 30 day time frame.

I know that is wrong because i filed it right away and even waited the 48 hours and called back to make sure they received my Fax,the person i spoke to from unemployment said it WAS received and to wait 3-4 weeks to hear something back, after 4 weeks was up i called again and was told nothing was ever received and that my protest has been denied as well due to not getting my protest in to the agency in the alotted 30 day time frame.

I even once again faxed over documents and receipts showing that i faxed my protest within the time frame,so why should i be denied benefits because of a mistake on the unemployment agencys end? They made the mistake and refuse to take responsiblity for that and instead continue to deny me me benefits....what can i do next?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

You could try filing an appeal for an Administrative Law Judge hearing or writing to your representative in the legislature. And perhaps you could go in person to an Unemployment Agency office and talk face to face with a real live human and show him or her the documents showing that you faxed the appeal on time. The Unemployment Agency has lots of cases and some fall through the cracks.

nicky63 3 years ago

Please tell me what my chances are for unemployment. I was fired for supposedly

calling another employee a lesbian

. What I said was "Does she even like boys" They are saying I was fired for misconduct

. I was never written up or gave warning.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The burden for establishing misconduct is on the employer. If I were the judge I would rule in your favor. However, there is a fairly large misconduct gray area. And we are in an era where remarks about race, sexual orientation are not tolerated. It would have been more reasonable, in my opinion, for the employer to investigate the situation and warn you to avoid remarks about sexual orientation in the future. If the individual about whom your remark was addressed heard you or became aware of it and was offended, your employer could have asked you to apologise. Dismissal strikes me as quite severe in the case you described. If I were you I would appeal your case to an Administrative Law Judge hearing. I think your chances of winning are better than 50-50. An appeal doesn't cost anything. Be sure and get your appeal in within the time limit and show up at the hearing on time. Good luck.

James 3 years ago

Ralph, I filed for unemployment in Michigan due to lack of work, got over a months worth of benefits. When I filed I answered that I was in school part time and would NOT quit school if work conflicted. I had no return to work date but have returned to work and was assured it was just due to the american axle strike. They have asked for ALL the money back. I wrote for a redeterimination and was denied, I am writing again to request a hearing before an Administrative Law Judge. I am wondering what you think my chances of winning are? And any advice you could give me to help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Well, it's hard to make a prediction without reading the file. However, the basic principle is that in order to qualify for benefits you must be available and seeking work. Being in school doesn't automatically disqualify you. There are several cases where students were allowed to continue receiving benefits if they indicated they were willing to adjust their class schedule so as to allow them to work while going to school. The law does not require you to quit school in order to be eligible for benefits. Once you have filed a timely appeal you will receive a notice of hearing and a list of advocates who can assist you in presenting your case to the administrative law judge. Having an advocate or lawyer would be to your advantage. You are free to call as many of the people on the list as you wish. You should not wait until the last minute before selecting an advocate. You need to give him or her time to sign on to your case and get a copy of your case file, read it and discuss your case with you. Also, find out where the hearing office is located and make sure you get their on time, preferably a half hour ahead of time in case there is a need to tie up any loose ends with your representative. The state pays a small fee ($100) to the advocate for advising you on your case and appearing with you at the hearing.

If you were in school part time when you were laid off and you returned to your part time job when you were recalled I think you should be eligible for benefits. However, your case is not a slam dunk. The judge may rule that you were not available and seeking work during your layoff and therefore ineligible. Yours is a borderline case so far as I can tell without reading the case file. Good luck!

OttMitt 3 years ago

I was employed for six years with a company that just eliminated my position. It was basically an executive position and I was a model employee. I DID receive unemployment benefits for the past six weeks.

My employer told me personally that she felt bad for ending my employment and she was going to include two weeks vacation pay on my last regular paycheck. My last paycheck included the extra two weeks pay that was described as vacation pay. I had earned three weeks vacation at my anniversary date two months before my release. The vacation was a benefit listed in my original employment agreement that I signed six years ago. The agreement did not state whether the vacation could be taken as a cash payment or had to be taken as days off. I had requested my vacation time every year for six years and was denied all requested time for the entire six years of my employment even though it was in my agreement. The employer had sometimes paid other employees (that did not even hve a written agreement) cash instead of taking vacation.

I just received a letter from UEA questioning my eligibility and asking me to answer several questions. The questions ask about two seperate payments. The owner has told them that I was also given a seperate severance pay check...I received no such check.

The owner feels that the two weeks vacation pay should be considered income after my termination and I should be disqualified for benefits for the first two weeks. The owner also lied about a severance check being given to me.

My question is: Does vacation pay that was earned as a benefit for working the previous year count as regular pay for the next two weeks after my job ended when it was a benefit and not regular pay? How would a severance check effect someone's benefits...I never rec'd one, but I am now curious.

Thank you!

Whe

OttMitt 3 years ago

I was employed for six years with a company that just eliminated my position. It was basically an executive position and I was a model employee. I DID receive unemployment benefits for the past six weeks.

My employer told me personally that she felt bad for ending my employment and she was going to include two weeks vacation pay on my last regular paycheck. My last paycheck included the extra two weeks pay that was described as vacation pay. I had earned three weeks vacation at my anniversary date two months before my release. The vacation was a benefit listed in my original employment agreement that I signed six years ago. The agreement did not state whether the vacation could be taken as a cash payment or had to be taken as days off. I had requested my vacation time every year for six years and was denied all requested time for the entire six years of my employment even though it was in my agreement. The employer had sometimes paid other employees (that did not even hve a written agreement) cash instead of taking vacation.

I just received a letter from UEA questioning my eligibility and asking me to answer several questions. The questions ask about two seperate payments. The owner has told them that I was also given a seperate severance pay check...I received no such check.

The owner feels that the two weeks vacation pay should be considered income after my termination and I should be disqualified for benefits for the first two weeks. The owner also lied about a severance check being given to me.

My question is: Does vacation pay that was earned as a benefit for working the previous year count as regular pay for the next two weeks after my job ended when it was a benefit and not regular pay? How would a severance check effect someone's benefits...I never rec'd one, but I am now curious.

Thank you!

Whe

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Regulations for severance pay and vacation pay in Michigan provide that laid off employees are disqualified for the week in which the pay is received unless the employer in the severance letter or agreement specifically allocates the pay over several weeks. The way this is handled may well vary from state to state. My experience is in Michigan only.

Jennifer 3 years ago

I won my case and now my previous employer has offered me a job! The problem is the pay is less and the hours are less. Do I accept the job? What do I say to MARVIN?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Well, it depends on how much less the pay and hours are for the job to be deemed suitable. Your employer may be trying to disqualify you from benefits. If you refuse the job he will probably inform the agency that you declined an offer of employment. You are required to accept offers of "suitable" employment. "Suitable" has been interpreted to mean work in your occupation which you have done before for comparable or similar earnings. One court case ruled that a 17% reduction in earnings was "substantial" and good cause attributable to the employer for quitting. I'm not of any magic number for determining whether a job offer is suitable. The courts would compare your pay rate and hours before you were laid off with the current offer and determine whether it was reasonable for you to decline because it was "unsuitable," that is the pay rate, hours and earnings would be sufficiently lower that it would not be reasonable to expect you to accept the offer. The unemployment agency may have internal yardsticks for determining whether a job offer is suitable, but they haven't published them to my knowledge.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Error: I'm not [aware] of any magic number.

Jennifer 3 years ago

Some one told me that there was a sliding scale to figure it out. What they are offering me is 50% less than what I was making with that company 5 months ago. I just dont know what my next step is. They sent me a letter saying that they had a job opening. I am supposed to respond. I am also supposed to call MARVIN on Tuesday. What do I tell MARVIN when he askes me if I have refused any job offer? I dont want to lie but its hard to reason with an automated phone service!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

If it was clear from the letter that you would be making 50% less than before you should be okay if you decline the offer. I'm sorry but I don't recall the wording of MARVIN's question about refusal of a job offer. You should answer the question accurately. It could lead to a redetermination against you, in which case you should protest on the basis that the job was not suitable because the pay was 50% less. If that doesn't work you should appeal to an administrative law judge hearing.

Please let us know how this turns out. I and I'm sure others would be interested. Sorry I'm not able to give you a definitive answer. Good luck!

MamaBug 3 years ago

I wrote awhile back about my husband being forced to resign. It has finally found it's way through to someone's desk and they are making a decision, however his company is now flat out lying to unemployment about the circumstances. They are claiming he up and resigned because he believed he was about to be fired for poor performance. Unfortunately, gave signs that she might be buying it. He is trying to get some supporting evidence from the boss, from others who were let go at the same time, and possibly even from the company that he was contracted with in the first place - hopefully before the company realizes what he is doing and starts trying to get people to shut up. Just wanted to give you an update, looks like we would qualify if the company in question wasn't acting unethically. I wish my husband had listened to me when I told him that they weren't being 'nice' to him by giving him 2 weeks severence.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Well, the outcome may depend on whose testimony at the hearing the judge finds more credible. Tricking someone into resigning in order to receive severance pay should not disqualify anyone from unemployment benefits.

MamaBug 3 years ago

Should and what is don't always line up in this life.

Right now it is still on the unemployment case worker's desk for initial judgement. We just know that they are contesting his version of events and claiming that his resignation was completely voluntary. Luckily, he does have an email from his boss which states 'I gave you the choice between resignation and termination and you chose resignation' which seems to undermine their claim that there was no immediate threat of firing. My husband is also going to try and get confirmation from the company he was contracted with that they were the one's to discontinue his services. Since there should be no liability to them for telling a contractor not to work there anymore we hope they will provide it.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

In Michigan severance pay disqualifies for UC benefits only for the week or weeks in which the check or checks are paid. I heard on NPR this afternoon that a laid off worker in Florida was disqualified from benefits due to severance pay. But they didn't provide the facts of the case. If your husband was forced to sign a resignation letter in order to get severance pay, that's not a bona fide resignation. Again, it's impossible to judge a case without reading the case file and even then it's uncertain until you hear the testimony and evidence presented at the ALJ hearing.

MamaBug 3 years ago

We know it isn't a bona fide resignation, but now we are in the position of having to prove it. The problem is the head of HR is actively lying to unemployment about the terms. She is claiming he resigned of his own volition with only the "possibility" of being fired had he not increased sales in his territory. This is not what happened. His manager gave him two options, walk out of the meeting terminated and receive no benefits or send in a resignation letter and get two more weeks pay plus the possibility of health care into the following month.

Essentially, it is boiling down to a 'he said, she said' argument with only my husband's resignation letter and a brief email from his former manager as the only documented evidence. I'm still cautiously hopeful that the investigator will make the initial judgement in my husband's favor so that the company is forced to appeal and not us. I don't know how good a poker face the investigators have - so far this one seems to be buying a lot of what the HR manager is selling. We are trying to hook up with the local Unemployment Law Project for guidance (and possibly representation) if it does end up going to court.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I would appeal the case all the way.

joe 3 years ago

In Michigan are you legally required to attend an unemployment appeal hearing if the employer appeals your determination/re-determination?

I collected benefits for a few months, then got another job. Now I got a letter saying I have to attend a hearing. I do not care about the unemployment anymore and I know if I win this appeal the employer will just appeal again. I just want to put this all behind me.

Whats the worst that could happen if I leagally don't have to attend besides paying a few thousand dollars back if they win their appeal?

What if the judge determines that I have been fired for misconduct by the employers testimony, will I have to pay any penalties?

I appreciate you taking your time to answer my questions. Thank you.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

If you don't appear at the hearning the judge's decision will be based solely on the employer's un-rebutted testimony which means that the re-determination will likely be reversed, and you will be required to re-pay the benefits you have received. There are no penalties for not attending the hearing. The hearings are fairly informal. They usually last a half hour or so. They are tape recorded and appeals are decided on a transcript of the taped hearing record.

Peanut 3 years ago

I have read through your comments. They have helped many people. If you could please assist with one concern I have.

I was recently released from my nursing position due to the loss of a contract. I am receiving a short severance and have had my unemployment adjusted appropriately. (not my question) My concern is the question on Marvin that is directed towards returning to school. Oddly enough the question includes if the individual is gaining a pension or has started school. Relevance of the two escapes me... However.. I digress... I am now returning to school. As much as it would appear by the title RN there are not jobs out there for me. I have not worked in a hospital or with direct patient care since I first graduated. Most job listings require quite a backing of experience. I have since learned it is not my preference to provide direct care. Please dont take that comment to meant I do not care dearly for my patients. I have evolved my career down the administrative path and presently have my BSN. I would like to advance my career with education while I am on this forced hiatus. However, I am not quite certain how the reply to this question on Marvin will play out. Can you please enlighten me. Thank you for any assistance you can provide.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Sorry for the delay in this reply. I have been out of town for 10 days and wasn't able to keep up with my email. Returning to school full time could affect your eligibility unless you continue to seek full time employment and are able and willing to suspend your classes or adjust your school hours to accomodate a job. Being in school doesn't automatically disqualify you from benefits. It depends on the individual circumstances. The intent of the law is to provide benefits for individuals who lose their jobs through no fault of their own and who continue to seek employment. Severance pay disqualifies otherwise eligible individuals during the week or weeks in which the severance pay is received.

NOTE: Answers to questions are based on my knowledge of the law in Michigan and are correct to the best of my knowledge but not guaranteed.

Julie-Ann Amos profile image

Julie-Ann Amos Level 1 Commenter 3 years ago

Nice hub, have linked one of mine to it as the topic is relevant

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Thanks!

alley 3 years ago

I was unemployed due to my plant closing. I worker there for 30 years.I have been looking for a job and have went for a few orentations. I was told I could start at a new store that was opening in my town the next day after orentation. But the job was only part time and was $7.75 an hour and I had been making 12.52 when my plant closed.I di not take the job because of the pay and I had never did retail work before and would have to purchased new clothes to work there for just 20 hours a week. I had orentation for another job and expected to start there the next week. I have not heard from the other job which would have paid $9.00 I am wondering when I call in to certify if this will cause problems with my unemployment. Will I have to say I turned down work?Will I be denied my unemployment?

alley 3 years ago

I was unemployed due to my plant closing. I worker there for 30 years.I have been looking for a job and have went for a few orentations. I was told I could start at a new store that was opening in my town the next day after orentation. But the job was only part time and was $7.75 an hour and I had been making 12.52 when my plant closed.I di not take the job because of the pay and I had never did retail work before and would have to purchased new clothes to work there for just 20 hours a week. I had orentation for another job and expected to start there the next week. I have not heard from the other job which would have paid $9.00 I am wondering when I call in to certify if this will cause problems with my unemployment. Will I have to say I turned down work?Will I be denied my unemployment?

LD 3 years ago

I filed for unemployment back in June due to our company (a charter school) changing management companies and everyone in the company was let go. When I filed, I stated I was fired as there was no accurate box to check. The truth of the matter is the school board quit the employer without cause and fired them. I clearly stated what took place, but was denied benefits. Since I had nothing more to add to my claim, I did not protest. I didn't think it would do any good to restate what I already stated.

Later I discovered that others from my school received benefits so I inquired. I protested late, and asked for a redetermination. I have been denied due to not having good cause for protesting late.

Do I have any hope if I go to a hearing? If so, what reasonings do I need to provide.

When speaking with representatives from the unemployment agency, they stated that there is no reason why my benefits should have been denied, and that the person who originally looked at my case must have overlooked my statements. A second time I talked to them regarding my request for redetermination, they stated that whomever looked at the redetermination request only addressed the issue of back pay and didn't even see the request for redetermination. This made it twice that unemployment workers stated that someone within their agency didn't do an accurate job. Is there anything that can be done about this type of negligence. People are not educated in unemployment law and these workers seem to take advantage of it. Perhaps they are trained to do so in order not to spend so much???

Thank you.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Alley, I don't believe your not accepting a part-time job at a much lower rate than your previous job will disqualify you from unemployment compensation.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

LD, the judges tend to enforce the deadlines for appeals fairly strictly. However, appealing doesn't cost anything, and you might win based on the argument that your failure to protest resulted from incorrect, innacurate information given you by the unemployment agency. An appeal is worth a try. Some of the judges are more sympathethic to claimants than others.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

LD, one factor possibly in your favor--sounds like your former employer is not likely to show up at the hearing. Neither is someone from the agency. Judges are more likely in close cases to rule for claimants if the employer isn't objecting and if the employer doesn't send a representative to the hearing. Also, the judge should consider the fact that other employees in your exact situation received benefits.

Lanie M. 3 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I was a co-op/intern student at a corporation for 5 months. When my term ended, I was let go and I had also graduated from college. I wasn't sure if co-ops/intern were eligible to file and I couldn't find any unemployment laws in Michigan prohibiting it. After 2 month of not being able to find a job, I decided to file for unemployment to see if my application would be accepted.

Since I was a Co-op there, my term ended. On the unemployment application, I stated that I was fired because there wasn't an option that fit the reason why I left.

Yesterday, I called to inquired about my case, and the man I spoke to over the phone stated that my employer put down "temporary assignment" on the Monetary Determination/Fact Finding as my reasoning to leaving. He also changed my reason to leaving as "laid off." He said there should be no reason why I had to wait that long (for a review) since I technically didn't "quit" and my employer even stated that.

I had concerns about that, so I called back today.The gentleman I spoke to today stated that He said he saw nothing wrong with my application/case because the employer stated what I wrote above. I didn't understand how "temporay Assignment" would elate to "laid off"

Most states allow co-ops/interns to recieve unemployment benefits. I couldn't find anything on MI. I am concern be cause I don't want to recieve any benfits I'm not entitled to. I was so concern I even asked the representative "If there are any laws in Michigan that says co-ops/interns are ineligible for unemployment?" and he said, "No, not that I'm aware of."but I'm still concern.

Here are a few questions I'm hoping you may be able to assist me with.

Are interns/co-ops eligible for unemployment?

If a employer were to protest a claim, how long do they have to protest? Is there a due date when the employer can no longer protest?

If I used the benefits because I was eligible and the employer protests, would I have to pay the benefits back?

Should I be concern at the fact that the representative changed my reason for leaving to "Laid-off"?

If this helps, I applied for unemployment at the end of July. (July 26 or 27 or 28)

I spent so long waiting because when you "quit" it takes a month for a Determination. I still haven't recieve Determination.

I applied and I'm eligible for unemployment benefits. (The representative told me I should be recieving the benfits this week). I've been call MARVIN for the past month. I'm just so afraid that there is some mistake, and I would have to pay every penny back. I've been reading up on unemployment and see that this is often the case. I have made it clear on my unemployment application that my job title was "Engineering Co-op."

Thank you for your help.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

1. Keep calling Marvin.

2. Your benefits should not be affected prior to the date of an employer protest including a short statement of the reasons for termination.

3. Be patient--the unemployment agency is flooded with applications, appeals, protests, etc.

4. If your employer protests and you receive a redetermination that you are not eligible for benefits promptly request a hearing before an administrative law judge. I see no reason why you should not be eligible for benefits.

Pat 3 years ago

I lost my job due to my actions that landed me in jail. I have filed for unemployment and have been waiting 8 weeks now. What I did had nothing to do with work. I was in a fight outside of work, on my day off. I called my employer from jail and asked if they would do work release and they said no. Am I screwed or is there a chance for me to still obtain benefits?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

It doesn't cost any thing to appeal. During an appeal it's important to continue to certify in accordance with procedures (in Michigan calling Marvin).

Section 29 (1) (f) of the Michigan statute reads as follows:

421.29 Disqualification from Benefits

Sec. 29(1) An individual is disqualified from benefits if he or she:

(f) Lost his or her job due to absence from work resulting from a violation of law for which the individual was convicted and sentenced to jail or prison. This subdivision does not apply if conviction of an individual results in a sentence to county jail under conditions of work release or day parole as provided in 1962 PA 60, MCL 801.251 to 801.258, or if the conviction was for a traffic violartion that resulted in an absence of less than 10 consecutive days from the individual's place of employment.

I was unable to find a case which would tell me for sure whether the above exception applies in your case. I believe it does, but I'm not sure. An appeal would be worth a try in my opinion. The above exception to disqualification could be interpreted, in my opinion, to mean that because your sentence allowed work release you were not guilty of disqualifying misconduct.

[If you do appeal please let us know the result.]

avatarlagi profile image

avatarlagi 3 years ago

I think compensation for unemployment is labour intensive jobs

Ryder560 3 years ago

i lost my job August 19,2007 because i was 1 minute late for work because of my child care provider didnt show up on time for my 22 month old son. I filed unemployment that same day and still have not received a check yet. I keep calling MARVIN on my schedule day. I finally called unemployment again and they said my Employer never responded so now they will review it and make there own decision. I'm just wondering how long this will take and will i even receive my unemployment? Thanks so any info.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The Unemployment Agency should have issued a determination shortly after you applied for UC. Sounds to me as if you should long ago have been receiving benefits. Sometimes it's better to write a letter than relying on commitments over the phone. Don't give up. Being late occasionally due to a child care issue should not disqualify you from benefits.

Ryder560 3 years ago

Right after i filed they sent me a determination saying if approved i would be getting $362.00 a week in benefits. When i called today they said my claim is in review because my employer never responded after several attempts of letters they have sent them. So someone in the unemployment department is reviewing it to decide if i get it or not because i was fired. I already filled out the inquirey they sent me asking why and how i got fired. How long will it take them to review it,ive been job hunting for 6 weeks now with no luck. I work for this company for 6 years too. Thanks for any info

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I suggest that you keep pestering them. It might help to contact your representative in the Michigan Legislature. The agency should have awarded you benefits long ago. However, they are flooded with applications due to the high unemployment in Michigan. You should not have to wait for benefits just because your former employer hasn't responded. The agency should pay benefits or rule you ineligible based on the information you gave them on your application and subsequently. If you told them you were only late a minute or two due to a child care issue that should be enough to qualify you for benefits.

Ryder560 3 years ago

Just wanted to drop you a quick line and tell you my unemployment came through today (FINALLY) !!! They backed paid me the 6 weeks :) Thanks for all your info.......and pestering them did help.....finally!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

That's great news. Thanks for the report. I hope you find a good job before your benefits are exhausted!

Tracy 3 years ago

My hearing is tomorrow and I just wanted to say......I WISH I WOULD HAVE FOUND THIS THREAD EARLIER!!! I am so nevous.

I am in FL. and this is a telephonic hearing, my first appeal.....I just wanted to thank you for this site and these answers, I read a lot of them. So, even for those of us who don't send questions, This is still a big help. I learned a lot, just wished it calmed my nerves. :-/

~ Tracy

sad92002 3 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I was fired and accused of profanity in the work place...COMPLETELY FALSE.. and was DENIED UNEMPLOYEMENT BENEFITS under MES ACT, SEC 29(1)(b) which I have read. I am planning on appealing this week. My situtation is: I wasn't given verbal or wriiten notices, I never recieved a employee handbook of office policies, it is her word against mine because we were behind closed doors, just the office manager and my self, and other employees have documented proof of her lies in the past....they will support me. BUT HOW DO I PROVE MY INNOCENTS on the charge? I am 61 yrs. old, own a home and live in Oakland County, Michigan need I say more? I will be added on to the long lists of foreclosures soon. I was fired 8-7-08 and time is running out.

Any advice? Thank you in advance!

Sally

Brenda 3 years ago

Ralph please help!

I was fired 7 weeks ago from my job of three years. The day I was pulled into the conference room my manager told me that due to several tardies, absences, and my recent requests for time off(3 unsignificant dates in the span of two months due to a moving process) that they needed someone more reliable and I wasn't working out.

Now they never specified which dates they were talking about. I was never shown the days I was supposedly tardy or absent. Now I do recall a few times I was tardy but I called in before I was to show up to work and told them the reasoning(I was stuck in a car wash the day after halloween due to eggs and other legitimate situations), they never once said this was being written up, or that this was going to cause issues for me.

Several fellow employees have been fired from this company in the span of a year, more like 8. I've noticed with several of the ex employees, there were people hired in and trained right before someone was fired.

I think this happened in my case as well. A part time came in, was trained, promoted to full time to learn my position. Another part timer was hired, and then I was fired. I went in a week later to collect my check and there she was in my desk doing my work.

This company has thrown me around that office and I never once denied any of their schedule changes. there was a misscomunication in the scheduling and I did come in to work late one day, but we actually had a discussion about that privately and she agreed that there was a lot of confusion in all of the changes.

I live and work in Michigan and I know its tough for these types of unemployment but I need some reassurance that I have a chance.

Might I add that they never gave us any type of break or lunch?! Can I add that and get something from it, or is that just playing dirty?

Also, Ive been shown an employee handbook once, when I was first hired in as a part time. I was never given a copy of the handbook to take home but I did have to sign something.

I could also get witnesses or written statements from past employees regarding their behavior and how random the punishment/discharges have been if that could help?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The burden of proof is on your employer to establish misconduct. From what you said it doesn't sound to me as if you were guilty of misconduct which has been defined by the courts as "wanton or willful disregard of your employer's interest."

Requesting time off in advance certainly is not misconduct. Neither is being late for work once in a while. That's normal for most employees. Moreover you apparently received no warnings, write-ups or reprimands before you were fired. Normally there are several preliminary steps prior to dismissal except for serious misconduct such as use of drugs, alcohol, theft, insubordination and the like.

It will be to your advantage to get an advocate to assist you at the administrative law judge hearing. Get to the hearing early enough to discuss and clear up any last minute items with your advocate or lawyer.

Written statements don't help much at appeal hearings. Witnesses with first hand knowledge of the issues in the case can be helpful. Discuss this with your advocate. He or she will want to know exactly what testimony your witness is prepared to give. It might be helpful for you to point out that you were frequently asked to work through or during your lunch period, especially if you weren't paid for the time worked. Good luck!

Lisa 3 years ago

I had resigned from my employer due to mistreatment by certain managers. These managers were writing inaccurate information within my performance reviews. During employment, I told the head manger what the other managers were doing. That they were basing my work performance on "hear say". Once I told the head manager this, he disciplined the managers. The managers received written warnings. After that, the mangers retaliated against me by harassing me. Some harassment included following me, questioning me about my work performance as well as constantly observing me. They continued this for 4 months. I finally resigned. I filed for unemployment. The employer appealed the decision. The day of the hearing, the employer did not show. Therefore the judge dismissed their appeal. Then the employer filed for "reinstatement" and it was granted. The 2nd hearing is coming up this month. If the judge rules in the employer's favor at the 2nd hearing will I have to pay back all benefits even though the judge had ruled in my favor the first time because of the employer's "no-show"? Thank you for any advice you may offer.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Yes, you will be requested to repay the benefits you received if the administrative law judge rules in favor of the employer. The state will grab any future state income tax refunds that are due you, and they will take a portion of any future unemployment compensation benefits for which you may become eligible. The state will not take your house or car or 401k plan.

As indicated in the text above, the law presumes that a reasonable person will find another job before quitting the one they have. Therefore, the burden will be on you to convince the judge that you had "good cause attributable to the employer" for quitting. The "good cause" bar is pretty high. However, there is a fairly big gray area in which it is within the judge's discretion to rule in your favor or in favor of the employer. It will be to your advantage to find an advocate to assist you in preparing for the hearing and to represent you at the hearing. Quit cases are difficult for claimants to win. Perhaps you should consider subpoenaing the "head manager" to testify on his action as a result of your complaint to him on the harrassment. I would not subpoena him, however, unless he says, in advance, that he is willing to testify that he disciplined your supervisors for harrasing you. Also, you might be able to contest the propriety of the decision to allow the employer a second chance at a hearing. That would depend on why they failed to appear at the original hearing. Best of luck!

ps, If it's not too much trouble, let us know how the hearing turns out.

Sean 3 years ago

Ralph, I stumbled across this post and was very impressed, being that you are familiar with how all this works I was hoping to get a little help from you, I hope you don't mind. Summary is that I was fired for attendance issues from a company that uses a point system, due to a lack of child care in my son's first year. I received a determination disqualifying me under Mes Act, Sec. 29(1)(B).

Now, the really confusing part for me is that I have been making my calls to MARVIN for 2 months and have NOT received any benefit payments, yet the letter I just received says: "YOU ARE DISQUALIFIED FOR WEEK ENDING XX/XX/2008 UNTIL COMPLETION OF A $X,XXX.XX EARNINGS REWORK REQUIREMENT WHICH HAS NOT BEEN SATISFIED." Should I be concerned that they are trying (or may try) to collect benefit payments from me? -and- I have contemplated protesting this, but I only have a month to contend with it before I ship for boot camp (Military). I don't want to start something I can't finish... Any details you might want, simply let me know. I am extremely grateful for any insight you can provide! Thanks, -Sean

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Well, first of all, automatic attendance point systems are not valid for establishing misconduct because they don't take into account the reasons for absence or tardiness. Absensce, per se, is not misconduct. Repeated absence and/or tardiness without reasonable cause is misconduct. The employer has the burden of establishing misconduct. That is difficult or impossible to do solely based on an attendance point system that racks up points without regard to the reason for the absences or tardinesses. I assume that you initially were determined eligible and received benefits and then based on information furnished to the Agency by your employer you were determined to be ineligible. If you had filed a timely appeal for a hearing before an administrative law judge you would have had a good chance of getting the Agency's determination or redetermination reversed. Since you have not appealed the ruling the Agency is likely to request that you repay the benefits you received. Practically speaking my understanding is that they don't pursue repayment requests in a ruthless manner, but they will grab any future state income tax refunds for which you may be eligible in order to satisfy your obligation to repay the benefits. They also will reduce any future unemployment compensation benefits for which you may be eligible. [It's hard for me to offer solid advice without reading the information in your file.]

If you think of it let us know of any additional developments. Best of luck in the military. I hope your don't get sent to Afghanistan! (or Iraq)

tammy 3 years ago

Ralph, I recently filed for unemployment due to lack of work and the initial determination was approved. However, the employer filed a appeal and my benefits were then reversed for which I filed an appeal and had my telephone hearing today. The employer did not show up for the hearing today and I wondered if that makes my chances better for getting the redetermination turned back into my favor?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Yes, it does, especially if the issue doesn't involve resignation. In resignation cases the burden of proof is on you, not the employer. When the employer doesn't show up the judge rules based on the claimant's testimony. However, it the employer didn't show up because of some credible emergency, the judge could honor his request for another hearing. That doesn't happen very often.

tammy 3 years ago

Thanks Ralph, I hope your right because I'm having a tough time finding a new job but I keep trying. I was let go for lack of work, so I was told but when my employer appealed orginally he said he let me go for attendance. I was never documentented for attendance problems and the judge today stated he had nothing more than a statement from my employer about certain dates. The judge just asked me about specific dates and why I missed and whether I was ever given a written or verbal waring of which I wasn't. I told the judge what was said to me on my last day which was there wasn't enough work in the office for him to keep me and I could give him a letter of resignation for which then he would give me a good reference. Of course I didn't provide him with the letter of resignation because I knew that would mean I quit. Anyway, my former employer didn't show up for the telephone hearing today and the judge said he would render a decision as quickly as possible. Thanks again for your input.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Sounds like a winner to me! You were smart not to fall for the "Just sign this letter of resignation and I'll give you a good reference" trick which many employers use in an attempt to disqualify you from receiving unemployment compensation. They are given bad advice from shyster lawyers. Some even tell employees that they won't receive any pay for unused vacation or other pay due unless they sign a resignation. Others offer the choice of resigning or being fired even though the truth is that the termination is a layoff. Cheesey employers will do almost anything to avoid having laid off employees draw benefits against their account.

Tammy 3 years ago

I don't know so much about smart as lucky, it wasn't till after the fact when I got home that I realized I was glad I didn't give him a letter of resignation because of unemployment reasons. The funny thing is he even called be later in the week to touch back with me to see if I was sending him a letter or not. I didn't take the call I let him go to voice mail. Thanks again for your input. I hope your right and I win....I need to make a house payment!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The unemployment compensation tax is experience rated, i.e., based on the frequency and duration of claims against each employer's account. Last I heard the top tax rate charged employers who have laid off a lot of employees is more than 13 percent. The lowest rate charged employers experiencing few or no layoffs resulting in charges against their account is under one percent. Thus, there is a powerful incentive for unscrupulous employers to avoid charges against their account by disguising what are really layoffs as resignations or dismissals for misconduct. The admnistrative law judges are aware of this and try to prevent employers from unfairly disqualifying employes whom they terminate. Usually it's the small employers that are inclined to do this, not the auto companies or other major employers. Car dealers and nursing homes are among the worst offenders as well as some small temp agencies.

Tammy 3 years ago

Funny you say that because this was a small company. Insurance agency to be exact with 3 employees. My guess is his tax rate is low. Guess I will know in about a week whether things go my way.

Abbie 3 years ago

How do Michigan Laws approve in favor of the employee thats quits a job for a good reason. I guess what is a good reason to quit a job and be entitiled for unemployment

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Michigan law presumes that a reasonable person will not quit his job until he finds another job UNLESS he has a very good reason for quitting such as unsafe working conditions, being asked to do something illegal, being sexually harrassed by a supervisor, being discriminated against due to race, religion, age or sex, having a substantial reduction in pay, or cancellation of important benefits such as health insurance, repeated bounced or late paychecks, violations of the wage and hour law. Moreover, the employee who quit must be able to show that he attempted to correct the issue by filing a grievance or using established complaint procedures and giving the employer an opportunity to correct the problem.

In cases involving resignations the burden is on the claimant to prove that he had good cause attributable to the employer for quitting. These cases are among the most difficult for claimants to win.

brian 3 years ago

i recently filed a claim for a job that i was fired from. i had to write in and answer a few questions of my employment for determination. today i recieved a notice of determination. it states " You were discharged from (name of company) on 8-5-08. Available information does not establish that your seperation was for misconduct."

in the next paragraph it says "it is found that you were not fired for a deliberate disregaurd of your employers interest. You are not disqualified for benefits under mes act, sec. 29 (1) (B) "

this is really not clear to me and i have no idea if this mean i am going to start recieving checks or if i am not qualified for recieving unemployment check.

Does this mean i have been approved and will start recieving unemployment checks and if so how long will it take to get my first check? Thank You. Brian

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Yes. The determination means that you will start to receive benefits. However, you employer has a right to request a "redetermination" and furnish information on why you were fired. The burden of proof for establishing misconduct is on the employer. If the redetermination goes against you, your benefits will stop. Then you have a right to request a hearing before an administrative law judge. Meanwhile it's essential to continue to call MARVIN until your case is settled. The judges are pretty good at getting the facts out in their hearings and arriving at a fair decision. Misconduct is defined under court decisions as "wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest." This is a pretty high bar for the employers to get over. Pointing to a couple of unexcused absences isn't enough.

Ron 3 years ago

I just received two determination letters and am confused.

For the past 15 years Iworked part time for a volunteer ambulance service. This is a State Licensed position and it requires extensive amounts of time for continuing education. My State medical license expired on 8/8/08 and I had log ago made the decision not to renew it. That and the fact that I am 56 years old solidified my decision. I good part of the timeworking on an ambulance is spend lifiting heavy people onto stretchers and into the ambulance.

So at 56, my age was the other contributing factor, (Iwas concernedabout injuring myself. That "Determination Letter" states

"You voluntarily retired from ***** Ambulance Service. Your leaving was voluntary and not the fault of the employer"

You voluntarily retired from your job without good cause attributable to your employer.

It goes on to state that I am disqualified from benefits under MES Sec. 29(1) (A)

Here is where it gets confusing

It further states "You are disqualified for the Week ending 08/09/2008 until completion of a $4,344.00 Earnings rework requirement which has not been satisfied.

(4,344.00) is the yearly total of my pay from the Ambulance service for 2008.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The second Determination is from my full time employer where I was terminated for no good cause and without prior notification.

That Determination states "You were terminated from +++++ on 9/4/2008. The available information does not establish that your seperation was for misconduct.

It is found that you were not fired for a deliberate disregard of your employers interest. You are not disqualified for benefits under MES Act 29 (1)(B)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Does this mean I will be getting benefits from my full time employer and not from the ambulance service?

Thansk in advance for your help

Ron

Ron 3 years ago

I just received two determination letters and am confused.

For the past 15 years Iworked part time for a volunteer ambulance service. This is a State Licensed position and it requires extensive amounts of time for continuing education. My State medical license expired on 8/8/08 and I had log ago made the decision not to renew it. That and the fact that I am 56 years old solidified my decision. I good part of the timeworking on an ambulance is spend lifiting heavy people onto stretchers and into the ambulance.

So at 56, my age was the other contributing factor, (Iwas concernedabout injuring myself. That "Determination Letter" states

"You voluntarily retired from ***** Ambulance Service. Your leaving was voluntary and not the fault of the employer"

You voluntarily retired from your job without good cause attributable to your employer.

It goes on to state that I am disqualified from benefits under MES Sec. 29(1) (A)

Here is where it gets confusing

It further states "You are disqualified for the Week ending 08/09/2008 until completion of a $4,344.00 Earnings rework requirement which has not been satisfied.

(4,344.00) is the yearly total of my pay from the Ambulance service for 2008.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The second Determination is from my full time employer where I was terminated for no good cause and without prior notification.

That Determination states "You were terminated from +++++ on 9/4/2008. The available information does not establish that your seperation was for misconduct.

It is found that you were not fired for a deliberate disregard of your employers interest. You are not disqualified for benefits under MES Act 29 (1)(B)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Does this mean I will be getting benefits from my full time employer and not from the ambulance service?

Thansk in advance for your help

Ron

KT 3 years ago

Ralph, I could really use your expertise.

I was employed in the mortgage industry for the last 15 years. I have lost 2 jobs in the last 18 months due to lack of work. I searched for a stable job for almost 7 months and finally found a job, part time as a cashier in a hospital. I took this job knowing there would be room for advancement, full time available after 12 months and kick a#$ benefits. I have worked there now 2 1/2 months.

My former employer called me this week and offered me my job back. He offered me full time, 80% of what I was making with full benefits. I turned it down. I have MANY reasons for not accepting. First is his health benefits are $700 a month, I am only paying at the hospital $130 a month. He has no vision or dental, hospital gives me both. Hospital I also get life insurance, pension, plus many other benefits. The distance is only 20 miles round trip, other job is 40 miles round trip. And here is the most important reason I turned him down. I spoke with the other 4 individuals that were still there when I was laid off and only one is left. The other three people had their hours and pay reduced and were forced to leave for more stable employment with other companies. EVERY ONE of them told me NOT to go back. My former employer is close to bankruptcy and had to move offices because he couldn't make his rent payment. He called me back NOT because the company is doing better (he's actually doing worse), but because everyone else is gone and he is desperate. They said it's only a matter of time before the company folds.

So I still receive limited unemployment (it's reduced due to my part time income), but without it I will be in serious trouble financially. When I let MARVIN know next week that I failed to accept a job, is there a good chance due to all the facts of my case that I will still be eligible to collect the little bit I've been collecting? I know I am supose to accept it because it's more than 70% of what I was making when I got laid off and I am obviously already trained in that field, but it is a SINKING SHIP! I offered my boss to help out a few times a week (I work midnights at the hospital), but he wasn't interested in having me there part time. I would LOVE to go back, full time, but considering the stability of my old job in comparison to my new part time job, it wouldn't make sense. I'd be back on unemployment in the next 6 months.

What is your advice? I am sure I will be immediately cut off, and wondering what will happen. It almost makes you want to lie to MARVIN, but I would never do that in fear it will bite me later on.

Thanks for reading!!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Ron, It sounds like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. I don't know the answer to your question. I suspect the effect is that you were not disqualified for misconduct but you were were disqualified for resigning without good cause attributable to your employer. You could call the agency and try to get an answer or explanation or just wait and see if you get benefits. Also you have the right to appeal within 30 days and request a hearing before an administrative law judge. In the meantime hou must continue to call MARVIN and certify that you are unemployed, etc.

KT, Your benefits will probably be terminated as a result of your declining a job offer by the employer from which you were laid off and collecting benefits. If so, you should request a re-determination stating the reasons why you did not accept the offer. If the re-determination goes against you, you have the right to appeal to an administrative law judge. I would rate your chances of being found eligible for benefits no better than 50-50. In the meantime you should continue to certify to MARVIN until your case has been resolved.

KT 3 years ago

WOW! I really appreciate you getting back to me so quickly.

I was afraid that was the response I was going to get from you. Isn't it a shame I have to worry about losing my little bit of benefits that puts food on the table or gas in the tank because I thought I made a well informed decision that will probably keep me off unemployment in the future rather than a quick money now, but wind up on unemployment again in the near future decision?

Oh well. I will just call to certify next week and keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks again!!

Ron 3 years ago

Thanks for your quick reply.

Jim F 3 years ago

Ralph - My job was eliminated and I received a severance for 6 months, which was paid out every 2 weeks. I filed a UE claim after my severance expired. My former employer challenged my claim stating (incorrectly) that I received severance during the benefit week I filed for. In my reply, I informed the Unemployment agent over the phone that my severance ran out 3 weeks before I filed my initial claim. At this point, everything is status quo and my benefits will not be affected, but can an employer make a case for my ineligibility going forward because they gave me 6 months of severance pay?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

No. I don't believe he can. He can try, but I don't think he'll succeed.

Jim F 3 years ago

I didn't think so. There is nothing in my severance agreement regarding unemployment claims, just the standard waiver of legal claims (i.e. age discrimination and other lawsuits). Thanks for your quick response.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Note: I will be out of town and unavailable to respond to comments or questions October 29--November 4.

Vicki 3 years ago

I voluntarily left my job after 10 years of employment. The reason I did this was to be with my husband, whose business relocated to another part of the state. This would make the commute about 180 miles one-way. From November 2006 until June 2008, I lived with my mother-in-law to be able to continue to work and visited with my husband on weekends. However, this created difficulties between us and I left my job. My last day of employment was June 30, 2008. I filed for unemployment on September 8th, 2008. I was denied benefits on October 25, 2008 due to MES Act 29(1)(A). I plan to appeal the decision, but if there is anything that you could advise, I would appreciate it. Thank you and have a great day!

Victoria 3 years ago

I filed a claim in March 08 and recieved a letter stating I needed to mail in my birth certificate, SSN and Marrage certificates to verify my surname. I have never been married before. And I couldn't find my birth certificate so I had to order a new one. There was a problem with that and I finally got in in July 08. So I re-opened my case and never got a letter stating I needed to mail in those papers to verify my surname so I thought it must have been a clerical error in the first place. Anyways I have been recieving my benefits since 08/08. I just recieved a letter stating that they are cancelling my benefits because I never sent in those papers. I am filing an appeal, but I was wondering if I will be able to appeal it and get my benefits reestablished or if I was really in the wrong and won't be able to get my benefits anymore. PLEASE HELP!! Thank you.

Victoria 3 years ago

I wrote the comment above. I just thought of another thing. Should I send in copies of my social security card and birth certificate with the appeal letter? Since that is what they were asking for back in March 08. They were also asking for marriage licenses and any surnames I have. Which I do not have either. I've never been married or have gone under any different last names. I have though been known as "Tori", my full name is Victoria, but I don't think that would make a difference. Anyways, should I mail in copies of my SSN and birth certificate with my appeal letter? Do you think that I have a good chance of getting my benefits back? I am a single mother of two kids and can not go without employment.

THANKS!

Dennis 3 years ago

Ralph,

Thank you for this service.

My wife works for an airline as a flight attendant and recently the company offered something they call a SLIP leave. The leave was intended to reduce flight attendant workforce without the need for involuntary layoffs. The leaves were voluntary, you bid on them and were awarded them based on seniority.

At the time the leaves were offered, the company published a letter explaining that unemployment benefits would be paid depending on the state in which you were unemployed. They explained that while they do not make the decisions on eligibility, they would not protest a claim by employees on SLIP leave for unemployment benefits. They went on to say that if asked about the nature of the leaves that they were "leaves in lieu of layoff of a junior employee."

Initially, my wife was approved for unemployment benefits and we received payments for the first 2 months. We just received a letter stating that we are now denied benefits due to not being umemployed, but on a voluntary leave of absence. We were asked to repay the amount that we had collected.

My wife called the unemployment office to inquire about the denial and was subsequently grilled about the nature of the leave and was told in no uncertain terms that she was ineligible due to the leave being voluntary.

This same type of leave was offered in 2001 by the same company and those employees were able to collect benefits. I think there is a section in Michigan unemployment law about voluntary leaves when there is a lack of work, which definitely applies to this situation since the goal was to reduce the active workforce...excess flight attendants.

What is the likelihood that we will be denied benefits through an appeal process?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Victoria, you are the first person I'm aware of who has been asked for a birth or marriage certificate. I would go ahead and send the Unemployment Agency copies of what they are asking for. Apparently they have a question about your identity. I am in Michigan and have experience only with Michigan procedures, not other states. Procedures are similar from state to state but not identical.

Dennis, I have not been able to find a provision in the Michigan statute or a court decision on the issue in your wife's case. My impression is that auto industry employees who are laid off under "reverse seniority" agreements (i.e., the lowest seniority employees are laid off first)are eligible for unemployment compensation benefits. It seems to me that your wife would have a good appeal argument that her SLIP leave was in effect or comparable to a layoff because if nobody had applied, somebody would have been laid off. If I were her I would appeal the re-determination because they are frequently incorrect and reversed by administrative law judges. It doesn't cost anything to appeal. It might be helpful if she could provide the judge with a statement from her employer to the effect that the procedure was adopted for the sole purpose of reducing work schedules. Finding her eligible for benefits would be consistent with the purpose of the Act. I can't predict which way the decision will go, but IMHO an appeal is worth a try.

Victoria 3 years ago

I am in Michigan also. I sent in my appeals letter and copies of my birth certificate, social security card and drivers license. Hopefully it will be enough for them. It sounds to me like maybe someone is using my identity and got married but I got my credit reports and nothing like that has happened at least it doesn't show it on there. I am thinking it will be enough for them. I think maybe the issue may be because my employer had me down in their system as Tori Martin, instead of my full name Victoria Martin. But that wouldn't explain why they needed a marriage certificate when I've never been married.

Do you think I should worry?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Well, I'm not an expert on identity theft. But I would keep my eyes open and perhaps get replacement credit cards with different numbers.

Victoria 3 years ago

I'm sorry. I meant do you think I'll have trouble getting my unemployment back up and running?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Well, I'm not sure. If you keep pestering the Agency you should be able to get the mixup straightened out. And if you get an adverse determination request a redetermination and if necessary a hearing before an Administrative Law Judge. Also, be sure to comply with all the time limits. The Agency is very strict about that. It's not uncommon for the judges to reverse the agency's decisions.

Miss Conduct, allegedly 3 years ago

due to my amount of pay and the fact that I was 2 months away from full company benefeits, I found myslef being fired over the phone. Now when my unemployment was denied due to some kind of misconduct. I stated in my redetermination letter that no such action happened as a matter of fact I never had any written warnings or anything of that nature. I asked to see, and for my former employer to prove why they denied my unemployment. With no paperwork or anything to back up their false claim, I am assuming I will be found in favor, and reinstated. How long can I expect this to take?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

It's hard to say how long it will take. Unemployment agencies all over the country are very busy. After a redetermination, the next step is an appeal to an Administrative Law Judge hearing. At that hearing the burden on the employer to prove misconduct. The judges usually take only a few days to mail you their decision, and the Unemployment Agency is usually pretty quick, if the judge rules in your favor, to mail you a check for your benefits. It's important for you to continue to certify every two weeks in accordance with Unemployment Agency procedures until your case is resolved. Good luck.

Miss Conduct 3 years ago

Thanks! I faxed in my appeal friday and now am waiting on the Judge. Is the hearing a physical court where I have to go? I am 4 hours north of grand Rapids. Where is the nearest court of appeals here the judge is located? Much Thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Hearing offices are located in Detroit, Flint, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Lansing, Livonia, Saginaw, Traverse City and Troy. Here's a link which has their addresses and phone numbers:

http://www.mhascarchives.com/ucp/law_office_locati

Usually the hearings are assigned to the office nearest your residence or nearest the employer where you worked.

You can request a telephone hearing if you are unable to travel to the location where the hearing is scheduled. Good luck!

Kevin 3 years ago

Hi Ralph,

I like to ask for your advice. I was fired for tardiness in August and was denied unemployment. The determination wrote "You were fired for repeated lateness after being warned in writing. You knew your job was in jeopardy. You state you needed to visit your father whose hospitalized while on way to work. You felt this was more important. There is no evidence to show you made employer aware of situation. to perhaps work this out. in order to protect your job. This will be part of hearing."

In my defense, the written warning was in January. I never received any type of writtern or verbal warning during the few months prior to my termination. I felt that I should not be held at fault for tardiness caused by circumstances beyond my control, as my father was very sick in the hospital and I do have medical records. Although it may have been in the best interest of my employer to fire me, I believe my actions do not rise to the level of misconduct. Ralph, can you give me any advice on this? My hearing will be next week.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I agree that you should be eligible for Unemployment Compensation. Whether or not the judge will agree is hard to say. It will be helpful to bring information concerning your father's illness. Be prepared for the judge asking you why you were not able to visity your father after you completed your work day. The result may depend on how many times you were late and how late you were. It's also relevant whether your supervisor said anything to you on the occasions when you were late. If he didn't you would have an argument that your employer condoned your tardinesses, that is led you to believe that it was okay for you to be late when you had to visit your father in the hospital. It will be to your advantage to have an advocate represent you. And be sure and get to the hearing on time (preferably early) because being late for the hearing definitely would hurt your case. Good luck.

Kevin 3 years ago

Thanks Ralph for the response! I will post the results after the hearing

Jim  3 years ago

I was offered a Voluntary Separation Package for Salaried workers by Ford and accepted it in 2007. Since then, I have tried very hard for other engineering jobs but have had no luck. I can not move out of Michigan as I lose about 1/3rd value of my home. Question is - Can I be eligible to claim unemployment benefits? Also will there be any tax savings/relief for us when we file our 2007 taxes? What do we show and how do we survive? Any thoughts suggestions? I see no light at the end of the tunnel...it is very dar and I can not breathe either............

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Your eligibility for benefits may depend on the terms of your separation package. You may be able to convince the Unemployment Agency that your leaving was not truly voluntary. It doesn't cost anything to apply for benefits. It could be worth a try. I am not a tax expert and can offer no advice on your taxes.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The Detroit Free Press reported November 14, 2008 that 40,000 Michigan employers will pay an extra $67.50 per employee in 2009 to help pay off a $472.8 million shortfall in the unemployment benefits trust fund. That's money the state had to borrow from the federal government in order to pay benefits to an estimated 650,000 people this year.

The added solvency tax will affect businesses whose laid-off employees have collected more in benefits than the employers paid into the state unemployment fund. It's the first time the surcharge has been imposed since the recession of the early 1980s.

In addition, most employers will pay $21 more per employee to pay off the state's debt to the federal unemployment system.

Michigan's seasonally adjusted unemployment rate in September was 8.7%, second only to Rhode Island.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200

Kevin 3 years ago

Hi Ralph,

Just like to follow up on my previous post. I was terminated for tardiness because I had to visit my dad in the hospital. I just had the hearing. My manager did not come but she sent her assistant manager to come, (someone I've never met before), and they had their lawyer. Towards the end. their lawyer requested that the person from the labor office I spoke with to be present, or something to that extent. The judge declined his request saying that he has enough information to make a decision. We were running out of time and their lawyer said he was not done asking me questions so the judge had to adjourn the hearing to a future date. Usually, how long does it take because I dont want to sit home waiting for another 2 months? Any thoughts? Thanks!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Probably a couple of weeks or a month at most.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Don't forget to keep calling MARVIN to certify every two weeks on your scheduled day.

miss conduct 3 years ago

i filed my redetermiation letter 2 weeks ago and have not heard anything. Kevin had his hearing in a week? Is this normal or is my former employer stalling? Whats the usual expected time to wait for a redetermination hearing?

Thanks Ralph!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

No more than a month. However, as you know the unemployment agancy in Michigan is quite busy these days. Don't forget that you must continue to certify by calling MARVIN until your claim and appeal is finally settled and thereafter if you are found eligible for benefits.

P  3 years ago

Unfortunately I moved to this state with hopes of pursuing a better life for me and my child. But since moving here I have seen an economic downfall of severity. Like many others here in this state I was fired from my job due to my job title changing in which I had no experience. Filed my unemployment claim like everyone else, gots pieces of paper in the mail did the protocole like I was suppose. Waited a month still heard nothing, finally got through the Marvin help line after a week of continous calling to get a woman that was not very helpful. All she could tell me was that they had 5-7 weeks to work on this claim due to the fact that I was fired. I said yes but there was no serious misconduct on my part. So I gritted my teeth and waited 3 more weeks to finally getting through only after 4 days of calling to get a woman that said oh your claim hasn't been worked on I will have to forward this to my supervisor and I stated ok will this be taken care of today. "No ma'am we are back logged so its going to be an additional 7-10 days before you get an answer. So I'm still searching for work but very limited here in this state since as most of you know. Moved to this state with high hopes - resorted to having to get my truck repo'd and living not sure where as of yet with myself and daughter since we know no one in this state. Aye Michigan a wonderful state to live in........... I hope no one else has to deal with the severity of michigan unemployment overlooking there claim as well. Bless you all.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

You have my sympathy. But I don't have a good answer for your problem other than keep calling them, and maybe they'll take some action. IMPORTANT--Keep calling MARVIN until your claim and any appeals are finally settled. Good luck.

Victoria - In Michigan 3 years ago

My benefit year is ending in March and I've been reading up on the extentions that were passed, but I'm still ot sure if I'll be able to get the extentions or not. I have not been back to work and have never gotten an extention or applied for one yet. If my benefit year ends in March and my regular benefits end in Jan. will I be able to get the full 13 week extention or just until March when my benefit year expires? I live in Michigan.

Thank you, I am so confused.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

A 13-week extension was signed by President Bush yesterday. I have no further information on it. I'm sure the state Unemployment Agency will soon make an announcement. You may receive something in the mail. It's likely there will be information in the newspapers. In the meantime you should keep or resume calling MARVIN if Agency procedures provide for or require this. I have no previous experience with procedures for UC extensions. Sorry. I will post whatever information is available when I get it.

Marnie 3 years ago

Hi--

My husband resigned from his job (verbally) and gave his employer 2 weeks notice. He has another job lined up to start in 2 weeks. With a week left his company decided that his services were no longer needed and they decided to lay him off. Is he eligible to receive unemployment for the week inbetween? He has 2 personal days he can use but nothing else for the 3 days,

Thanks

Marnie

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I'm pretty sure he is but I'm not positive. Won't hurt to apply. (Im on vacation out-of-town and don't have access to my copy of the statute and court decisions.)

Alex 3 years ago

Hi Ralph,

Just a quick question. Is it common for judges to subpoena evidence such as records or documents in unemployment hearings? Thanks!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Not in my experience. The judges get a copy of the case file which includes the original application for benefits submitted by the claimant and material submitted by the employer as well as any other material submitted in response by the claimant. I've never handled a fraud case which might be one type of case when the Unemployment Agency might subpoena evidence about earnings which were not reported to the Agency. It's not uncommon for judges to issue subpoenas of witnesses upon request of claimants or employers, however. The judges normally issue subpoenas only upon request of one party or the other, in my experience.

brian 3 years ago

hi i have been recieving benefit payments for 6 weeks now i recieved a monetary redetermination in the mail everything is the exact same on this form from the ones i have recieved before. Except for the referance code of 12 and a code 25 which states that the benefits have been redetermined for the benefit year. I am really not sure what this means i did call marvin on my scheduled time and they said that i would recieve my payment on wednesday novermber 26th but i never recieved the payment. Does this mean that my payments have been cut off and I am going to have to go in front of a judge for a hearing? im just very confused because marvin said i would recieve my payment and the weekly benefit amount is still the same on my redetermination.

Thank You, Brian

CJ 3 years ago

Hello

I am receiving unemployment benefits, I live in Indiana, I recently took a retail job 3 weeks ago and am only getting around 25 hours a week. There are starting to cut my hours, so now it will be less than that. I have gotten my unemloyment benefits while I am working, but they are reduced of course. I want to quit this job and keep looking, because I receive a lot more money from the unemployment. If I quit this job, will I lose my benefits? Thank You.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Brian, sorry I can't help you with that one. I don't have access to the definitions of the Agency's reference codes. You should continue to receive benefits unless the written redetermination says that you are not eligible. You'll have to check with the Agency or wait and see. Be sure to keep calling Marvin.

CJ, in Michigan and I suspect also in Indiana, the rule is that if you quit your job without good cause attributable to your employer you are disqualified from receiving benefits. If they reduced your hours significantly that might be good cause for quitting and not affect your eligibility. You should check with the Indiana Unemployment Agency before you quit in order to avoid risking the loss of your benefits. Sorry I'm not able to give you a more definite answer.

Lynn 3 years ago

Hello Ralph,

I filed for Unemloyment in July, 2008 due to lack of work and have been receiving benefits since. In Novermber 2008 I received a request for information from UA stating that my employer said I voluntary quit, I answered the questions and faxed them back. In the meantime I still received benefits through November, 2008

However December 1, 2008 I receive a determination from Unemployment that I am disqualified for benefits under 29(1) (A) and restitution is due.

It also states I am Not Disqualifed under Section 62 (b) of the MES Act.

Can you help explain to me what this means. I plan to protest.

Please advise.

Thank You

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Section 62 (b) of the Michigan statute provides for stiffer penalties for people who collect benefits as a result of making INTENTIONALLY false statements on their application or in information furnished to the unemployment agency.

Section 29 (1) (a) provides that persons who voluntarily leave their jobs without good cause attributable to their employer are disqualified. Apparently your employer told the Agency that you quit without good cause. Someone who quits is not eligible for benefits UNLESS they (1) had a serious problem (for example, pay checks bouncing, forced to work in unsafe conditions, instructed to do something illegal or dishonest, siginificant reduction in pay or benefits, discrimination or harrassment) and (2) they followed the complaint or grievance procedure and gave the employer an opportunity to correct the problem. The burden in the court hearing is on the employee to establish that he or she resigned for good cause attributable to the employer and that the matter was called to the employer's attention.These protests are not easy to win, in my experience.

If your position is that you did not resign or leave voluntarily, the judge will base his decision on your testimony and that of your employer, whichever he finds more credible.

And be sure to CONTINUE TO CALL MARVIN until your appeal is resolved!

If you think of it, let us know how your case turns out. Good luck!

valerie 3 years ago

My husband was fired from his job, when he filed for unemployment, the company disputed and said that he refused an offer they made to him. he got denied for unemployement benefits for refusing suitable work, we had the appeal last week and are waiting on the decision. The judge wanted to hear nothing about him being fired, or quittin, she only wanted to hear about job refusal, my husbands point was how do you defend yourself against that when you were never offered a job. There were 2 and my husband when they fired him, at the hearing one said she offereed him a postion making the same amont of money, then the owner, said it was a 20, 000 difference, one said he quit right then, the other said she didnt know what happend, she left it up to the owner and him, they were all 3 in the same meeting, and my husband pointed out that, he pleaded with them for his job, then they went on to say he had poor job performance, and that the positon they offered him was not available, he was a district, and they were trying to say they were going to put him in a unit, (demotion), he stated that the unit they said they were offering was not availble cause he had a manager in it, and they said she was being promoted, he did not know that, so i guess they were trying to say they were swapping their positions, anway, What will the judge be going by their indesprencies. Its kinda of a he said she said, so who has the burden of proof, and should my husband have said to defend himself.

valerie 3 years ago

it should have read, he tried to prove the position they offered was not available. the judge didnt ask alot about the difference in the jobs neither, how will she figure out if the job was really offered, as they had no written proof, just their word, We figure he will be denied again, since it was 2 against one, we even sent in notarized statments from the other managers stating that the one that fired him told them she had fired him and the reasons, but the judge didnt want to hear it cause it was wheather he was fired/quit, and she was there for job refusal. what does the company need to have to prove that he refused a job, he had worked there for 7 years, and had always been dedicated, he even left our wedding reception to go into work, and to be fired, for no reason and then for the company to lie has really upset us

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Valerie, please let us know how the judge's decsion turns out and what her reasoning was. Seems to me she should have taken testimony and allowed cross examination on your husband's position that he was told he was fired for poor performance because, if that was the employer's claim that he refused an opening wouldn't make sense. Also, offering him a significant demotion might well constitute good cause for leaving attributable to the employer. If one of the parties requests consideratin of an issue not on the Notice of Hearing, the judge can allow it, provided the other party agrees. If not, the hearing should be adjourned to allow the other party to prepare its case on that issue. Further as you noted, there was a significant discrepancy between the two employer witnesses. That should cast doubt in the judge's mind on the credibility of their testimony. Was your husband represented by an advocate or attorney at the hearing?

valerie 3 years ago

no we didnt get someone to represent us, we thouht we had enough proof going into the hearing to prove that he was terminated, but once hearin started, and she didnt want to hear that, we realized it was not good. i will be sure to let you know the decision, and i assume we can appeal it again? What would be considered good cause for refusing a job to the judge, since that is what she gathered facts on, and who had the burden of proof, she started with the company first, do they have to proove that the job existed, after searching the net for days, i have found that this is a weird case, and have not found any other case like it. My opinion would be that he would be entitiled, he lost his job, he did try to keep his job for months prior, the woman that fired him was promoted at the beginnng of the year, so once she had power over him, which she hated him, she startd making his job horrible, which we had to file with the eeoc, so my husband went to the owner asked to be transfered in august to another district, but was told nothing was available, and the owner said the 3 of them should have a meeting to get it out, now granted the owner and the one that hates my husband are like best friends, so he even watched himself to not say anything bad about her. so moreless, 6 weeks later, she decides to get rid of him, on the statment she first sent in to unemployment she put on it, that when he quit, he stated twice that he did not want to work for her, during the hearing he made it a point to ask her if he had ever said that to her, and she said so and so said, and he said did i ever tell you that, and she said no, she had told unemployment the new job offered was the same amount of money on the intial letter, on the phone she said it was 5000 different, then the owner said it was a 20,000 difference. But we dont know what or how he was to defend him self to prove that they didnt offer him the job, and fired him without giving the facts about being fired.

i really think the person who first gathered facts on the case, did a bad job, cause they went by everything the company had said even after my husband tried to explain to them what had happened. Their determination was "refused offer of suitable work for personal reasons." Which is crazy cause he knew she was trying to get rid of him, and did everything he could to try and keep his job. But i guess the woman, was nice enough to wait until a week later, after we closed on our new house, to get rid of him. She knew we was purchasing it, and had all of a sudden became interested in it.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Yes, you have the right to appeal the judge's decision to the MES Board of Review in Lansing, Michignan. Your appeal must get to the B.O.R. within 30 days of the date of the judge's decision. (A postmark within 30 days isn't good enough. The Board of Review must RECEIVE the appeal within 30 days of the judge's decision. The Board usually doesn't reverse the judges' decisison but it doesn't cost anything other than the postage on your appeal letter, so it might be worth a try if the decision goes against your husband.

One point worth noting: For claimants and employers who are not represented in administrative law judge hearings, the judge has an obligation to act in lieu of the unrepresented party to assure that he or she gets a fair hearing. If you husband believes the judge did not assure him a fair hearing it might be worth pointing out in your letter of appeal why he believes that. (This could be, for example, the judge didn't allow testimony or evidence which could have helped your case, or the judge allowed hearsay testimony on behalf of the employer, etc.)Good luck!

Miss Conduct 3 years ago

UPDATE:

It will be another 4-7 weeks until the judge can get to my paperwork. I asked when and where the hearing would be held and the person on the other end said it would be a paper hearing..meaning the judge looks at all the paper work and everything sent to him/her and would make the decision.

My question is this..everyone here says they went in front of a judge for a hearing and I am being told that I dont have to. Is something wrong here or am I just too early in my redetermination case and havent gotten that far along in my appeal yet? It is my first appeal for redetermination.

Thanks Ralph.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Miss Conduct,

You didn't say what state you are from. In Michigan all administrative law judge hearings are in person hearings or telephone hearings. These hearings are tape recorded. If either party appeals, the transcripts are typed up and sent to each party and to the Board of Review in Lansing. The Board of Review rarely holds hearings. Except in unusual cases it bases its decisions on appeals on the written record of the case, the Administrative Law Judge's decision and on the transcript of the hearing.

If you have requested a re-determination of an initial determination by the unemployment agency there will be no hearing. You will receive a re-determination based on the information you sent them and on any additional information sent to them by your employer. Once you receive a re-determination you have 30 days to appeal, requesting a hearing before an administrative law judge. It's very important to get that appeal in WITHIN 30 days. A post mark isn't good enough. The Agency must RECEIVE your appeal within 30 days. Also, keep calling MARVIN in Michigan or certifying in accordance with the Agency's procedures in your state. Otherwise, even if you win your case you won't get benefits for weeeks for which you don't certify. Good luck.

jonathan 3 years ago

how long does it take to receive a decision after you have had your appeal hearing, the referee, said she would have her decision by the end of the day, that was over a week ago, is it a good sign, since it is taking longer.

krllyy 3 years ago

OMG, i have been on unemployment since march, and am now on the extension, i just received yesterday, a letter for appeal, the hearing is for tomorrow, on "appeal filed timely", how can the company i used to be employed with, try to appeal it 8 mths later, and why would i have to attend this hearing, what could i possibly have to say about wheather or not they filed thier appeal timely...

thanks for any information, as i am not sure as what i am walking into..

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Jonathan, normally the decisions are out in two or three days or at most a week. Give it a few more days and if you don't receive it call the judge's secretary. Perhaps it got lost in the mail.

Krllyy, its hard for me to give you an answer without seeing the file and the Notice of Hearing which states the issues that will be decided by the judge after the hearing. It does strike me as a bit late for the employer to be appealing--it's possible that the employer timely protested the original determination awarding you unemployment compensation and lost on the re-determination and filed a timely appeal of the re-determination requesting a hearing before an administrative law judge. It sounds as if there is a question whether the employer filed his appeal on time. If he was late, the issue will be whether or not he had good cause for a late appeal.

Make sure you get to the hearing on time! If you don't have an advocate the judge is supposed to act as your advocate and make sure you get a fair hearing.

Krllyy 3 years ago

thanks, yeah the did protest the intial determation, and i won, and they never did appeal it, i filed in march, started receiving in may. I am already on my extension of ui, so dont understand why they would try to appeal now. The responded to the intial determination. and lost. so since the hearing is on wheather the appeal was filed timely. why do i need to be a participant. I feel the company should have filed somethin over 6 mths ago, it they wantd to appeal it, the actual one attending the hearing is the insurance company for the company i worked for, they stated they did not receive the paperwork until recently, how does the insurance company have anyting to do with my claim, i guess their rates must be high or somthing.

thanks for the advice

kimm 3 years ago

Hi

I am trying to get an answer to an unemployment question and was hoping you could help. I was hospitalized because I had three kidney stones, one of which obstructed my left kidney. I used up PTO time for the three days I was in the hospital and on the fourth day, I had surgery and only 4.5 hours of vacation time remaining. Because I was short 3.5 PTO hours, I was terminated for violation of company policy, which was no unpaid time off. I submitted letters from my doctor, discharge papers from the hospital, and returned to work the day after my surgery because I was told that if I tried to utilize my short term disability, which kicked in the 8th day of sickness, I would be terminated for abandonment of my job, which was missing three days of unpaid time off. I worked for 4 days and on the 4th day, my employer fired me for taking unpaid time off (the 3.5 hours I was short of PTO time on my surgery day). I filed for unemployment, which was denied because it was determined that I was terminated for excessive absenteeism which is a violation of company policy and it was found that I was fired for a deliberate disregard of my employers interests. I have since protested that determination, citing that absences without reasonable cause is misconduct and that illness or child care needs, court appearances and the like are not absence without reasonable cause. My question is, how long can unemployment take to process my redetermination request. It took them 7 weeks to determine I was not eligible for benefits and I am really struggling to make ends meet. I have continued to certify and I have submitted documentation of my illness to them with the protest. I have been calling the unemployment agency toll free number for two days and cannot get through to them because they are experiencing high call volume.

Thank you for any information you can give me.

Valerie 3 years ago

UPDATE and still need advice, ok as the blogs from earlier had the hearin on the issue of work refusal, receive a letter today stating all the info that was discussed at the hearing and then this

In the unemployment insurance program letter number 984, addressed the issue of what constitutes "New Work" Theh dept held, in part, that if a workers present employer tells the worker that he will lose his job if he refuses to accept a transfer to other duties or a change in duties, terms, conditions, of his employment, which are not authorized by the existing employment contract then the worker as been discharged and offered "New Work" If a worker faced with such a choice, becomes unemployed by refusing the offer of "new work" his entitlement to benefits must first be based on the THRESHOLD dishcarge issue:and then on the SUBSEQUENT work refusal issue.

Wherefore, there can not be a work refusal without first being a severance in employment, this case is to be remove from the Appeals Branch docket. The ui determination dated oct. 9 is to be voided and held naught. This case is remanded to the local office to investigate the claimants job separation from the captioned employer.

ok, so we have to start over?? Is this for real, so now who is investigating, what and how are they investigating it, now what do we have to proove. Its getting to the point where i am thinking we are going to need a lawyer, but how would a lawyer, make things any quicker, or even get this resolved. Any info you have would be very beneficial. Does this mean that we have to start at the bottom of the totem pole, and wait for someone to work the case again, and will they contact us for more information, or use what they got. I am finding all of this so ridicoulous. What i am taking from this letter, is that he got denied, because someone did not do their job, and then the judge isnt allowed to make a decision, that she has to send it back to the,. we are so confused, and broke at that, This has been going on since Sept, and to get this saying the judge did not even make a decision is dramatizing.

Valerie 3 years ago

UPDATE and still need advice, ok as the blogs from earlier had the hearin on the issue of work refusal, receive a letter today stating all the info that was discussed at the hearing and then this

In the unemployment insurance program letter number 984, addressed the issue of what constitutes "New Work" Theh dept held, in part, that if a workers present employer tells the worker that he will lose his job if he refuses to accept a transfer to other duties or a change in duties, terms, conditions, of his employment, which are not authorized by the existing employment contract then the worker as been discharged and offered "New Work" If a worker faced with such a choice, becomes unemployed by refusing the offer of "new work" his entitlement to benefits must first be based on the THRESHOLD dishcarge issue:and then on the SUBSEQUENT work refusal issue.

Wherefore, there can not be a work refusal without first being a severance in employment, this case is to be remove from the Appeals Branch docket. The ui determination dated oct. 9 is to be voided and held naught. This case is remanded to the local office to investigate the claimants job separation from the captioned employer.

ok, so we have to start over?? Is this for real, so now who is investigating, what and how are they investigating it, now what do we have to proove. Its getting to the point where i am thinking we are going to need a lawyer, but how would a lawyer, make things any quicker, or even get this resolved. Any info you have would be very beneficial. Does this mean that we have to start at the bottom of the totem pole, and wait for someone to work the case again, and will they contact us for more information, or use what they got. I am finding all of this so ridicoulous. What i am taking from this letter, is that he got denied, because someone did not do their job, and then the judge isnt allowed to make a decision, that she has to send it back to the,. we are so confused, and broke at that, This has been going on since Sept, and to get this saying the judge did not even make a decision is dramatizing.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

 

Kimm, As you know there are a lot of unemployed people in Michigan and around the country. The Unemployment Agency is quite busy. From what you said it sure doesn't sound to me like your absence was misconduct.  I'm not sure how long the redeterminations are taking so I don't have an answer for your question. Don't give up and keep calling Marvin until your case is finally resolved. Good luck!

Valerie, it sounds like your case is starting over at square one. I am not familiar with unemployment letter number 984 and I can't help you much on that one.  In Michigan, significant (a bit of a gray area in case law) changes in an employee's job or compensation can be considered good cause for resigning attributable to the employer. I believe there is a case where the court ruled that a 15 % cut in wages was good cause. Cancellation of health care insurance or the pension plan might also be good cause. Other changes in job title, shift, or duties would not be considered good cause for resigning or refusal of an offer. Let us know the outcome. So, the bottom line may likely be the nature of the changes offered to you. If they were radically different you may be okay. Otherwise you may be held not eligible. Let us know the outcome. Good luck.

 

 

 

Jamie 3 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I was let go from a tv station in Michigan that happened to have a union. The wrong union (UAW instead of something that would be geared toward tv), but I was fired for "surfing the internet." I have several problems with this. One, my boss just didn't like me anyway and I believe he has been searching for quite sometime to find a reason to fire me. When I was fired I had worked there 2 months shy of 2 years. To be honest I did use the internet. For my job and for personal use. Everyone does. Everyone in the building does, it's a known thing through out. Every once in a while a manager might say something like, "try to stay off the internet." But no one really took that seriously. They still do not. I see updates on myspace from several friends still working there, that say they are at work or working, etc. I also believe I was fired under the intention to cut costs. When I was working there, there would be two workers in my dept. with two jobs to do. One job required your entire 8 hour shift, the other was normally done within 2 to 4 hours. Leaving extra time with no extra work. Managment started to catch onto this. I know for a fact that they have not replaced my position. They didn't hire another full time operator but they use the couple of part timers to switch on and off a couple days to make up for my absence. I have spoken with several workers there and they laugh when I tell them my official reasoning for being fired. I can prove that others still use the internet for personal time while at work, even after they are told not to. I am currently trying to protest my determination but I'm having a hard time with it. Can you be of any help? Are there any "loop holes" that my story fits into? Also, I just found a job the other day but I would still like to collect my unemployment for those two months...as I am severly in debt now. Is this possible?

Also...just to let you know it took me about 5 to 6 weeks to get a determination in the first place. So it is a bit slow.

It said that I was fired under the MES ACT, SEC. 29(1)(B)...what does that say exactly?

Jamie

Jamie 3 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I was let go from a tv station in Michigan that happened to have a union. The wrong union (UAW instead of something that would be geared toward tv), but I was fired for "surfing the internet." I have several problems with this. One, my boss just didn't like me anyway and I believe he has been searching for quite sometime to find a reason to fire me. When I was fired I had worked there 2 months shy of 2 years. To be honest I did use the internet. For my job and for personal use. Everyone does. Everyone in the building does, it's a known thing through out. Every once in a while a manager might say something like, "try to stay off the internet." But no one really took that seriously. They still do not. I see updates on myspace from several friends still working there, that say they are at work or working, etc. I also believe I was fired under the intention to cut costs. When I was working there, there would be two workers in my dept. with two jobs to do. One job required your entire 8 hour shift, the other was normally done within 2 to 4 hours. Leaving extra time with no extra work. Managment started to catch onto this. I know for a fact that they have not replaced my position. They didn't hire another full time operator but they use the couple of part timers to switch on and off a couple days to make up for my absence. I have spoken with several workers there and they laugh when I tell them my official reasoning for being fired. I can prove that others still use the internet for personal time while at work, even after they are told not to. I am currently trying to protest my determination but I'm having a hard time with it. Can you be of any help? Are there any "loop holes" that my story fits into? Also, I just found a job the other day but I would still like to collect my unemployment for those two months...as I am severly in debt now. Is this possible?

Also...just to let you know it took me about 5 to 6 weeks to get a determination in the first place. So it is a bit slow.

It said that I was fired under the MES ACT, SEC. 29(1)(B)...what does that say exactly?

Jamie

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The easy part first:

Sec 29(1) An individual is disqualified from receiving benefits if he or she:

(b)Was suspended or discharged for misconduct connected with the individual's work or intoxication while at work.

Questions: Did you receive an employee handbook stating a rule against surfing the Internet? Was such a rule otherwise clearly communicated to employees?

Was the rule applied uniformly to all employees, or selectively?

From what you said the rule was not enforced. If not, this means that the employer "condoned" the use of the Internet by employees. This is probably your strongest argument.

Had you been specifically warned on previous occasions not to use the Internet? If so, that won't help. If not, it's a point in your favor.

Had you received any previous formal warnings, reprimands or disciplinary action for other issues? If not, that's in your favor.

As you observed, the fact that your position was not filled after you were dismissed is an indication that the your employer's real motive was to reduce costs and had nothing to do with Internet use.

Another important factor is whether you neglected your job in order to use the Internet. If you used the Internet during lunch or other breaks and when you were caught up on your work, that's in your favor. The employer should be required to prove that you wasted time on the Internet and neglected your job which would be misconduct. Occasionally using the Internet as did many other employees when there was a lull in your work would not, in my opinion, be misconduct. However the judge could go either way on this case. Some are stricter than others. They simply say "You violated a published reasonable company rule and that is misconduct." End of case. The case should turn on the issue of whether your use of the Internet was frequent enough that you were wasting time when you had work to do and therefore neglecting your job, not whether you violated a rule that was commonly violated by lots of other people as it is in nearly every office in the country.

It will be to your advantage to get an advocate to assist you in preparing for the hearing and represent you at the hearing.

Be sure to continue to call MARVIN until your appeal is finally resolved.

[A couple of years ago I helped win a case against one of the auto companies who fired an employee for sending a couple of personal emails from the office. He said and I knew from several friends at the company that lots of people at the company used their office computers to send personal emails, much the same as personal phone calls at the office. The claimant told me that his boss often communicated with his wife by email. We asked him at the hearing if that was true, and he admitted it was. The claimant won his case.]

Good luck!

valerie 3 years ago

another update, and becoming very disappointed in the unemplyment system.

we recevied another determination, no one had even contacted my husband for information, but this determination is another denial.

benefits are not payable whan a worker is discharged for misconduct connected with the work. the clamaint was discharged for unsatisfactory work performance.

The claimant was aware of his job responsibilites, but repeatedly failed to perform the work satisfactorily. the employer had warned the claimant. therefore, the discharge was for miscondut in connection with the work.

with that being said, okay so the company sends in that he quit, then during the appeal they stated that when my husband requested the meeting to be transferred, because he was being harassed, but the company said that they made it an opportunity to tel him about his job performance. not true, he has worked for this company for 7 years, and all of a sudden he does not know how to do his job? this is crazy, how does it go from being a quit, to know being fired for not doing his job. so i guess we have to appeal again. i just wanted to know, is there anyone higher up than all these unemployment people, that we can contact regarding this case, we have been given the run around, and no one is investigating any thing. the company dont even have write ups or nothing, so where are they coming up with this decision. its to the point, of why even bother with it, we have already lost everything we had, had to move in with our parents with our 5 kids, it just really disappoints me that our system is this messed up.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Valerie, I suggest you appeal and request a hearing before an administrative law judge and get an advocate to represent you. Advocates are provided without charge by the Unemployment Agency. Your husband has 30

days from the date of the determination to get his appeal in to the Unemployment Agency (A postmark isn't good enough. They Must RECEIVE IT). It doesn't cost anything to appeal. You have nothing to lose and plenty to gain if you win your appeal. The Agency is busy and makes mistakes which are often reversed by the administrative law judges.

valerie 3 years ago

thanks, what is the difference, between the referee and the administrative law judge, is that where you actually go into a court house, or is it done over the phone also. Another question, now since this determination is for work performance, what will the employer have to provide, there are not write ups and stuff, so will it all be based on hearsay again. lol or will it be different this time, and they actually have to prove something, we have all the p&ls, that show his numbers, and his job description, theres not that we know of that the compnay can use for poor job performance. I just dont understand, who decides what laws need to be applied. From all this, is almost like they are working for the company. If the company has the burden of proof, what exactly does that mean. I used to be a paralegal, and that is why all of this is blowing me away. I dont understand, how when we have all kinds of stuff like witnesses, written statemnets to prove his side, yet no one wants to hear it, and all of the decisions are being based of "just what the company says"

if we get an advocate what exactly do they do, do they know the laws about this stuff, and does it look better, do they move things along faster. I would assume, we would have to go over everything with them, and how do they know how to answer the questions correctly for the judge.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Referee=administrative law judge. In Michigan there are 15 or so hearing offices where administrative law judges hold hearings on UC appeals. The hearings usually last around a half-hour to an hour depending on the number of witnesses and how complicated the case is. The hearings are usually in person, but telephone hearings can be arranged if you live far from the hearing office. You can be represented by an attorney or an advocate if you wish. If you are not represented it is the duty of the referee or judge to make sure you get a fair hearing.

Hearsay testimony is not admissible. Records kept in the ordinary course of business are admissible--for example timeclock records, attendance records and the like. In misconduct cases the burden of proof is on the employer.

Advocates are tested and certified by the Unemployment Agency. The process is as follows: The agency sends you a list of advocates. You call as many of them as you like. If they aren't too busy when you call they will discuss your case with you over the phone. You then select an advocate and give him your case number and other information. He gets a copy of your case file from the Unemployment Agency and reads it. He then discusses the case again with you and prepares you for the hearing. The advocate does not "answer questions correctly for the judge." He asks the claimant questions designed to present his side of the case in a concise and orderly way. The claimant answers the questions put to him by his advocate and by the judge. And the advocate has the opportunity to cross-examine the employer witness(es). The judge sends the claimant and the employer his written decision, usually within a week.

If you think of it, let us know how your husband's case turns out. Good luck.

Tony 3 years ago

Hi Ralph, I had been on unemployment for the past several months then 2 weeks ago finally got a job. The problem is that during my first week of employment I become very ill and had to miss 2 days. The company had a policy of of during first 4 weeks of employment you could only miss 1 day any more and you would be terminated. My question is I reopened my claim and I was wondering if it would be approved? Does missing work due to illness disqualify you?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

In my opinion, you should be eligible for unemployment compensation. Absence due to illness is not misconduct under the UC statute. You should contact the agency and re-activate your applicaton for benefits or re-apply. I'm not sure exactly what the procedure is. Good luck. If you think of it let us know the result.

Tony 3 years ago

Thanks Ralph I will let you know the outcome. Happy Holidays!

Jelly Bean 3 years ago

Would eligibility be questioned in MI for vacation time spent out of state, even though the vacation was planned/paid for prior to collecting benefits, but occurred during a time of collection?

Jelly Bean 3 years ago

I am uncertain as to how to handle the above question in regard to unemployment. Do I claim the weeks I am gone?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The answer might depend on how long you are out of state. If the agency finds out that you are out of state for an extended period it might question your availability for work. If I were you I would continue to call MARVIN and certify that you continue to be unemployed and seeking work. I looked but was unable to find a court decision on the circumstance you described. In my opinion, taking a vacation does not mean that you are no longer attached to the labor market.

Lgali profile image

Lgali 3 years ago

nice hub

Scott 3 years ago

Hi Ralph, I live in Michigan and will be laid off after next week. I've already signed up for classes for the upcoming winter semester starting in January, but will this disqualify me from receiving unemployment insurance? Should I drop the classes to be on the safe side? Thanks in advance.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The classes could affect your eligibility. I would not drop the classes. You can still be attached to the labor market and seeking work while you are in school, especially if you aren't taking a heavy schedule. If the issue comes up you can tell the agency that you are willing to drop out of your classes if you are offered a job or you will work durning hours when you aren't in class. Plenty of people have done it.

Scott 3 years ago

Thank you so much for the quick reply. This issue has been making me nervous since I found out about the layoff, but I feel much more positive about it now. Thanks again.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

If you think of it let us know how your situation works out.

Sandy 3 years ago

I left a position with a temporary employment agency due to a maternity leave. When I was ready to return to work (the specific date confirmed by a letter from my physician), the position was no longer available. No other positions were available.

I was notified by the UIA that my employer indicated that I voluntarily quit. There is a redetermination pending.

I sent in my response and letter from my doctor. What are my chances that I will lose my UI claim?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

You should be found to be eligible beginning with the date you were able to return to work from your maternity leave. One question--what did you tell the temp agency when you started your maternity leave? What did they tell you?

Sandy 3 years ago

Thanks Ralph. I appreciate the quick feedback.

I told the temp agency that I would be available to work after 6 weeks - however, I was not ready for 8 weeks (if that matters). The plan was to try to place me back on my previous assignment, or find something else. Nothing was available. That is when I filed for UI.

I did obtain a letter from the agency verifying that I took maternity leave and contacted them when I was available for work, but no work was available.

This temp agency outsources their payroll needs, and it was this outside firm that indicated I had "voluntarily quit". I have not been able to reach the individual who indicated that I quit. However, the temp agency admitted an error was made and is supporting my claim 100%.

My concern is that I took a maternity leave from a temp agency. They are not obligated to hold a job for me - such as would be the case if I was a direct employee. So, technically, I'm thinking that a maternity leave would be considered "quitting" in this situation.

Hopefully not. Again, thanks so much!!!! I'm so glad I found you.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

You are entitled, by law, to take a maternity leave under the Family and Medical Leave Act. Doing so should not be considered "quitting" or a voluntary leaving under the UC statute. I wonder why the payroll firm responded to the Unemployment Agency's request for information about your claim?? Is it possible that you are actually an employee of the company that does your temp agency's payroll? Apparently, the company that does the payroll also is paying the unemployment insurance tax. These kinds of outfits tend to do anything and everything they can to prevent anyone from collecting unemployment compensation against their account. If you think of it, please let us know how your case turns out. Good luck!

Linda 3 years ago

I was employed by a temp services. My 1st assignment was a temp to perm position, however the company decided to close the office after 8 months and send the jobs out of state. I applied for unemployment and started recieving benefits. After 6 weeks I got another temp to perm position. I got fired after 29 days. I was not aware that I had to re-certify. I now know all the locations where this information is located. I have decided to appeal the decision because I live paycheck to paycheck and really need the money. The letter states good cause was not established. What is good cause? What is the legal way around this?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

It sounds to me that the good cause refers to your failure to re-certify. The Agency is quite strict about enforcing all of its rules. It won't cost you anything to pursue your case. However, the bar for establishing good cause for failure to certify is pretty high--hospitalization, death in the family, serious illness or the like. The unemployment compensation statute and regulations are full of little fishhooks or traps for unwary applicants. Sorry I don't have a more encouraging answer for you. Some of the judges are more sympathethic to claimants than others. You might get lucky.

mark 3 years ago

i have an appeal hearing coming soon, and the issue, is discharge for misconduct, unsatisfactory work performance. dont they have the burden of proof, and will they have to prove i had bad work performance, or is it based on just what they say.

and what is the best way of going about proving otherwise.

mark 3 years ago

i have an appeal hearing coming soon, and the issue, is discharge for misconduct, unsatisfactory work performance. dont they have the burden of proof, and will they have to prove i had bad work performance, or is it based on just what they say.

and what is the best way of going about proving otherwise.

mark 3 years ago

i dont feel that i performed badly, my numbers were the highest in the compnay, and i never missed work, i figured i would send in my numbers to the judge, will that help, but what will the company need to send in to prove i perforemed unsatisfactoily. i had only had 1 write up in 7 years, and it was nothing related to my performance, it was for things beyond my control that the people beneath me did, but i guess i was to control thier actions before they did them so i got wrote up. if i send in paper evidence will it be looked at, if the compnay sends none, and after reading some of these posts, it seems as if judges make their decision, on hearsay. so should i waste my tme, in sending anything in, or should i spend my time on coming up with questions to prove my case.

Dustin 3 years ago

Mr. Deeds:My wife recently accepted a new position in California. I gave my Michigan employer more than 2 weeks notice, asked if there was a possibility of staying on in the new location (which was not possible), but eventually quit my position to move with my family. After a few months without a new position I applied for unemployment and was recently denied.I have read your descriptions of MES Act Sec 29(1)(A) previously posted - does moving for family reasons automatically disqualify me from getting unemployment benefits? Assuming I move forward with my appeal, can I appeal a decision without appearing (I have no cost effective way to get from California to Michigan for a hearing)?Thanks for this site - I've gained more information in the last 15 minutes than I have from the hours of wading through the UIA.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Mark, Yes, the burden of proof is on the company by non-hearsay testimony (actual eye witnesses) and records kept in the course of business (time clock records, attendance records, production records, records of recent previous disciplinary write-ups and the like). You or your advocate or representative will have the opportunity to cross-examine the employer witness(es) and, if appropriate object to any hearsay testimony the employer attempts to offer. If the employer brings more than one witnesses, the additional witnesses should be sequestered (instructed to leave the room and wait until called to testify). After the employer witnesses have testified and been cross-examined you will have the opportunity to testify. Your testimony will take the form of questions from the judge and/or your advocate and your answers. In addition you have the right to submit relevant written material as claimant exhibits in support of your case.

It will be to your advantage to obtain an advocate to assist you in preparing for the hearing and in the hearing.

An hour is allowed for the hearings which are tape recorded in case either party appeals the judge's decision. If there is an appeal the tape recording is transcribed and a copy given to each party. The appeals are decided by the Board of Review based on the written transcript of the hearing and any exhibits.

Misconduct under Michigan law is defined as wanton and wilful disregard of the employer's interest. The alleged must be significant (serious) and intentional, not a single instance of carelessness or taking a few minutes too long for lunch. Don't forget to keep calling MARVIN.

Good luck at your hearing! Let us know how your hearing turns out.

Dustin, thanks for your kind comment. I looked through my summary of unemployment compensation cases and was not able to find one that fits your circumstances. Therefore, I'm not able to answer your question. However, it doesn't cost anything to appeal to an administrative law judge hearing, and you don't have to appear in person. You are entitled to a telephone hearing if you send a request for one in advance to the judge named in the Notice of Hearing. In the meantime you should continue to call MARVIN to certify every week until your case is finally resolved. You will not be eligible for benefits for any weeks for which you do not certify in accordance with Unemployment Agency procedures, even if you win your appeal. I'll do a little more looking around for an answer to your questin tomorrow, and I'll post anything that I find. Good luck!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Dustin, I'm sorry, but I wasn't able to find anything helpful to your case. I may be missing something but I don't think so. Just in case you may as well appeal. It doesn't cost you anything. Good luck!

Lisa 3 years ago

I was fired a little over a month ago...I was told it was because I had to many overrings and voids, but I never recieved a letter from Homeoffice warning me that I had to many voids and never recieved a verbal warning from my boss. While sitting in this meeting I was told that by the guy from HQ loss prevention department that somthing recently came to their attention about me, (mind you that I was told this meeting was about showing us how to read p & l statements and we had our own private meetings times) Well the guy from HQ had said that to me and I knew right away what he was getting at, I have had my wages garnished due to judgements that were placed on me, more than one garnishment. I admitted that to him right away, I had told my boss about it when the payments where first being garnished, about 5 weeks before I was fired. While sitting in the meeting I began to realize that this meeting wasn't about P & Ls and that he was trying to accuse me of something. I kept telling him that I was confused and he just kept using words like, have you knowingly missed used the POS (overrings and voids) for personal gain, I had replied no, then he asked other questions about overrings and manager discount. I told him I never used manager discount for any thing else other then for management discount. He asked about my personal life, what was going on, about my husband and I had admitted that I had personal issues, ( I knew again that my boss had said something because I have confided in her about it). In the end he said that I had 108 dollars in overrings that are unjustified. I told him I thought that was wrong. I knew that my boss had asked me to void a 66-70 order out because she had forgot to do it when she was their and I did, so I thought that was the unjustified overring I did and it didn't amount to 108 dollars. Well, I was fired and asked to pay them 108, but they never used theft, steal or stole anything. I felt that they were trying to get rid of me due to my judgements/garnishments. I know that met with another manager right after me, because he/she came while I was in my meeting. Well, I applied for unemployment in MI and said I was fired for other and I had two employer to claim from (18months) I just recieved a re-determination (what is a redetermation?) The amount is still the same, however the time frame is different just one year now (instead of the 18) and the amount of money is only 10,000 (for my earnings for the time frame)...then the same day recieved a letter stating they need me to explain the follow.... (then it read that the employer stated I was fired for theft.) they wanted to me state the date I was fired and why and did I steal the items if not what did i take etc...I'm confused, what do I do? What does this mean? Before I filed I called my boss and asked what to put down for unemployment and she said she didn't know. If I was denied for the one employer will I be accepted for unemployment from the other? Is this why I recieved a redetermination showing only income I made from that employer who didnt reject my claim?

Help....

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

If you appeal your redetermination (that just means a second decision or determination that you are uneligible) your former employer will have to come to a hearing before a judge and prove that you are ineligible due to misconduct. You or your representative will have the opportunity to cross-examine any employer witnesses, and then you will have the opportunity to testify in response to questions from the judge and/or your representative. The judge's decision will be determined on the evidence presented by your employer and by you and whether he believes your testimony or that of your employer. Without reading the entire record I'm unable to comment on your likelihood of winning an appeal.

Eric 3 years ago

I worked in Auto Sales for the last 2 years I walked into work today to a meeting they said we were going to part ways today and had me sign a termination paper that stated "At Will" the manager stated that it will help me get unemployment till I find another job. Is that true? I hope.

Jim 3 years ago

Ralph,

I'm in Michigan and was fired from a radio station due to lack of work. I was one of a few that were let go. They all filed 'lack of work' and received benefits right away...I filed 'fired' because I was...but not for disciplinary or other reasons...and I have been waiting for benefits since before Thanksgiving...it is now January 5th! I have kept up my MARVIN calls as scheduled...returned my question form promptly and have been waiting and waiting...for my employer to respond which probably won't happen...how long do they have to respond? Based on your previous advice to others, I am confident I will receive benefits but when?...I have read where you wrote to be patient due to the busy unemployment claims especially here in Michigan...and I saw where you mentioned to call or write UI...but they won't even take calls...it is a 'we are experiencing high call volumes' recording all day long. It has been over 6 weeks and believe me Christmas was awful...am I doing everything i can?...is there more to do?...where can I call that someone will answer? should I just calm down and wait?...Thanks, Jim

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Eric, You should be eligible for UC. The document indicates that you were an "at will" employee not covered by an employment contract. You were laid off and should get UC. Be sure and pay close attention to all the rules and procedures. The Unemployment Agency is very strict about deadlines, calling every two weeks on the appointed day of the week, etc.

Jim, I don't have any good remedies to suggest. From what you said you should be eligible for benefits. The agency is very busy right now and that's why they are slow in making a determination of eligibility on your case. When you told them you were "fired" that may have raised a question in their mind about your eligibility due to possible misconduct. It would have been better if you had used the term "laid off due to lack of work." You might try to see if you could get some help from Michigan Works http://www.michiganworks.org/page.cfm/98/ There you can actually speak face to face with actual humans. There is an office in Troy as well as other locations around the state. Good luck!

Mary 3 years ago

What does a re determination mean? Also, If I was denied unemployment from one employer, can I be approved for unemployment from the other employer. Both of which I had worked for durning the last 18 months. (Based in MI)

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

A determination simply means a decision or ruling by the Unemployment Agency on your eligibility for benefits. First you get a determination. If you tell the Agency you don't agree with the determination the will review your case and any additional information you and/or the employer send them and make a "redetermination," that is a second ruling on your eligibility. If you disagree with the re-determination you have a right to appeal within 30 days and request a hearing before an administrative law judge. There may be circumstances where you might be eligible for benefits as a result of your work at a second employer. That's a bit of a long shot, however. I'm not able to evaluate your situation based on the information you supplied.

Jackie 3 years ago

I been working with my job since 2006, at the end of the month I will recieve seperation papers due to the fact that I am pregnant and the company does not offer maternity leave. will I beable to appy for unemployment?

Mary 3 years ago

My redetermination doesn't give me a answer of weather or not I will be getting benifits, just states that Instead of be eliable from July 2007 til Nov 2008, I am eleiable from July 2007 to June 2008..this makes no sense...plus the amount of money I made change as well, from 35,000 to 10,000. I call marvin and still there is no date of when I will recieve the money.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Mary, I can't tell what happened to your claim. Keep calling Marvin until your claim and any appeals are settled. If you disagree with your redetermination I suggest you file an appeal requesting a hearing before an administrative law judge. They are pretty good about correcting determination errors by the Unemployment Agency.

Jackie, you should be entitled to a leave of absence under the Family and Medical Leave Act. Aside from that, the Michigan Supreme Court in WArren v Caro Community Hosp, 457 Mich 361 (1998) ruled as follows:

When a claimant is willing to continue working but is advised by a doctor not to work because of a temporary or sthort-term self-limited medical condition properly documented by the treating physician, the claimant did not voluntarily leave work by following the doctor's advice. If an employer refuses to allow the employee to return as soon as medically possible, the employee is entitled to unemployment compensation.

FACTS: As she neared the end of her pregnancy, claimant submitted a request for a medical leave. The request was denied under the collective bargaining agreement. It was the employer's policy to refuse leaves to employees who had not been employed a year. Shortly thereafter, the claimant gave birth and consequently failed to report to work. When released by her physician, she sought to return to work at the hospital, but was refused. She did not seek unemployment benefits for the period that she was medically unable to work. Rather, she only sought to return to work following her pregnancy.

DECISION: The claimant is not disqualified for voluntary leaving.

RATIONALE: "We continue to hold that whether a person is entitled to unemployment benefits is a two-part inquiry. Under the first prong, we must determine whether plaintiff voluntarily left her position. If we find that she left her position involuntarily, the enquiry ends and she is entitled to unemployment compensation...However, if the court finds that plaintiff left her position voluntarily, we must advance to prong two to determine whether her leaving was 'without good cause attributable to the employer.'" The claimant was advised by her doctor not to work beyond a certain date. Fault should not be ascribed to the claimant simply because a medical condition rendered her temporarily unable to work. Because she received medical advice not to work, she did not voluntarily leave, and thus is entitled to unemployment benefits for the period she was medically able to work, but her employer refused to allow her to return.

You can judge for yourself whether your circumstances fit the above Supreme Court decision. Good luck!

Jean 3 years ago

I hope you can give me some good advice. I was offered a new position earning $46,000 a year. However, after the initial training I was only earning 50% of what I was promised. I susbsquently had to leave that position and return home. I filed for unemployment. However, I'm not quite sure if that qualifies under a "good cause" for leaving my job. I received a notice with a request for information relative to possible ineligibility or disqualification. What's your opinion?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

It's hard to say based on what you've told me. The answer might depend on what your contract or employment agreement said, in writing, how long you worked at the job, the circumstances of your leaving from your previous job and perhaps other factors. From what you said, it sounds to me as if you had good cause attributable to the employer for resigning. However, the burden of proof will be on you to establish good cause attributable to your employer. In my experience, voluntary leaving cases are the hardest to win. It helps if the employer doesn't protest or object to the Agency when it is notified of your application for unemployment.

dukemom 3 years ago

Mr. Deeds, I could really use your help! I am staying with my sister since I could not afford to live on my own anymore, and also enrolled in college classes. The only problem is she lives in Ohio. My first question is can you be disqualified for attending classes out of state? My other question is that I was summonned for jury duty. If I give them a letter from school stating that I am in class out of state, can I be disqualified from receiving unemployment that way? My permanent address remains in Michigan.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

dukemom, I doubt very seriously that the court that summoned you for jury duty would send information that you furnish to the Unemployment Agency. As far as your college classes are concerned, I don't think it matters whether they are in Michigan or Ohio so long as you can honestly certify that you are unemployed, available and seeking work. Cases like yours are judged on the facts of each case. As long as you are able, if you can find a job, work the job in along with your class schedule or drop your classes in order to accept an offer of a suitable job you should be okay. The Unemployment Agency should be encouraging people who are unemployed to study and improve their education and job skills.

Paul 3 years ago

I would appreciate your help. I have two questions. First- I filed over the phone for unemployment, and gave them a back to work date of Jan. 5th- which is what I was told by management when I got laid off before Christmas. Before I went into work on the 5th, they called and said don't come in until the 6th. On the 6th they said don't come back until Feb. 4th. My question is this- because I originally told them I have a back to work date, do I now have to refile or do anything different because my layoff was extended? Or, do I just continue calling Marvin and my original back to work date really doesn't matter.

My next question is, I got laid off on Mon. Dec. 13th. I called probably 50 times that week to file for unemployment, but could never get through- the message was try calling back when we are less busy. I tried the internet also, but it kept freezing up when I went to the next page. The following Monday I finally got through and was able to file. I was told at that time I was inelligible for the previous week because I didn't file in time. My question is- do I stand a chance of winning the dispute (which I plan on sending in)? My argument is that I followed the methods of filing from the State of Michigan website- by phone or by internet- and even tried many many times, but was unable to, due to circumstances I had no control of. (Side Point- Had I known that I had to file within that first week, I probably would of tried to call 500 times, but I didn't know).

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I don't know the answer to your first question. I'm not sure what the correct procedure is. You can protect your rights by continuing to call Marvin and certifying that you are still unemployed. If they don't find you eligible, request a redetermination and appeal to an administrative law judge hearing if necessary.

On the second one I think you should be found eligible. The problem was not of your making. An appeal is worth a try. Good luck.

unemployed woman 3 years ago

Well, it happened to me too, for the first time. The business where I worked for many years, closed. I filed for unemployment benefits and was approved. But when I filed for the first week, I was very sick, laying with awful flu and in the question “were you eligible for a work for this week" I put "no", I told the truth, as I was SO sick, I couldn't pick up my head. So I was denied benefits for this week. They say it’s the law. It’s very unfair, as I was not claiming welfare; I was claiming my own money, paid for me by my boss for many years to help me in situation like this. Even with my boss I had certain amount of paid sick days.

They say I may appeal. Can you advise how to do it so they’ll pay me for this week? Can I win at all? It’s about $250, but this money is crucial for me with all the bills coming.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

According to the law you were not available for employment during the week. You can request a re-determination by following the instructions on the notice from the Unemployment Agency, but I doubt that they will change their mind. You have 30 days to appeal from the date of the determination. And the agency must RECEIVE the request for re-determination within 30 days. A postmark within 30 days is not good enough. It will be hard for you to retract what you told them about being ill during your first week of unemployment. About the best you can do is to tell them that you were at home, not in the hospital, not under the care of a physician and that although you were feeling under the weather you would have dragged yourself into work if you had received an offer. You might get lucky and get a sympathetic person doing the redetermination. You are supposed to get the benefit of the doubt under the unemployment compensation statute. Best of luck. Even if you don't get a favorable redetermination that doesn't mean that a week will be deducted from your eligibility for 26 weeks plus 33 weeks of federally funded E.U.C.-- extended unemployment compensation (in Michigan)-- if you still have not found a job. The week you missed will be added on to the end of your eligibility for benefits.

unemployed woman 3 years ago

Mr. Deed, thank you for your encouragement and information. I have another question about my perspective. In our small town there’s little possibility for me to find the same type of job with the same payment. If I find a part-time or lower paid job, will I be getting any unemployment money to make up the total? And what total might it be, like to fill up to my former wage or to unemployment benefit total?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Section 27(a) (6) (c) (2) provides

"(2) Each individual shall have his or her weekly benefit rate reduced with respect to each week in which the individual earns or receives remuneration at the rate of 50 cents for each whole $1.00 of remuneration earned or received during that week."

Holli 3 years ago

I wanted to know if you had any incite on this situation...my husband applied for unemployment back on 12/7/08. We have been filing the bi-weekly claims as required, he has been determined financially eligible, but we have not yet gotten the final determination. We contacted the unemployment office in PA which is where we live and they said they are waiting for his employer to get back to them I guess with the paperwork. How long are we expected to wait for this? Is there a standard time limit in which the employer has to reply? Please offer any advice as it is SO VERY HARD to get through to the office, the phone is always busy.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I don't have any experience with unemployment compensation issues in Pennsylvania. However, I think you should be getting a determination soon based on the Unemployment Agency's analysis of the information your husband and his former employer furnished to the agency. They probably give the employer 15 or 30 days to respond. If the employer doesn't file an objection your husband should receive a benefits check soon. Because of the bad economic situation unemployment agencies all over the country are having trouble keeping up with the flood of new applications. The Christmas-New Years' holiday may also have been a source of part of the delay as well. Best of luck.

Mary  3 years ago

Ralph,

Hello! I was laid off from my job back in April 2008 and I am still collecting from unemployment.I applied for the extension in December and I received it. My extension runs out in 4 weeks and I have been looking for work every day and unfortunately, jobs in Michigan have been scarce. It has been very difficult finding a job with my credentials. I have applied for numerous jobs and I have not been successful. If I don't find a job before the 4 weeks I wont have any money to pay my bills so, is it possible to get another extension? or can I apply for an emergency extension?...Please help

Thank You

Holli 3 years ago

I hope you are on the right track...Thank you for the advice. It is greatly appreciated!

Skipper 3 years ago

I have been recently layed off after 3 yrs and will be getting unemployment. I also will be retiring in March but have to get unemployment before my retirment kicks in, My question is can I collect unemployment and social security benefits at the same time. Can you enlighten me of any facts on this subject.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Receipt of Social Security benefits does not affect unemployment compensation.

You may not collect unemployment benefits charged against the account of an employer while you are receiving a pension from that employer.

While you are receiving a pension from an employer other than the employer whose account is being charged for your unemployment benefits you may collect unemployment benefits.

Of course whatever the circumstance you must certify for each week that you receive unemployment benefits that you are unemployed and available and seeking employment.

Skipper 3 years ago

Hello Ralph,

I appreciate your timely response, Your forum is invaluable to important questions individuals have on these subjects. Noone but "you" has been able to answer my question, not even the Social Security offices. You are an asset to your endever.

Thank you

Skipper.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Thanks for the kind comment. I wish you well in these tough times.

I may have given you a slightly wrong or incomplete answer on the effect of pension benefits.

Here's what the Michigan Unemployment Insurance Agency says in it's "green book" for claimants:

Retirement/Pension Benefits

To receive unemployment benefits, workers who retire must be able to work, be available for work, and be looking for permanent full-time work. Workers who voluntarily retire may be disqualified. (See Item 1 Under "Disqualifications."

If your employer paid the entire cost of your retirement benefit, the full monthly amount of the retirement benefit will be prorated to a weekly amount and deducted from your weekly benefit amount. If you contributed something, but less than one-half of the cost of your retirement benefit, one-half of the prorated weekly retirement will be deducted from your weekly benefit amount. If you contributed one-half or more to the cost of your retirement benefit, no deduction will be made from your weekly unemployment benefit amount. Social Security benefits have no effect on your UI benefits.

DISQUALIFICATIONS

1. You may be disqualified if you quit your job without good cause atributable to your employer or if you voluntarily retire.

Skipper 3 years ago

The employer that layed me off offers no retirement pension, I am scheduled for Social Security only. Is vacation pay from my last employer that layed me off considered earnings that i would have to claim on my UIA on the MARVIN system the first time that i call which is scheduled on the 21st of this month. I have already recieved my confirmation of UIA benefits.

Thank you

Skipper

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Vacation pay paid in a lump sum at the time of layoff or subsequent to layoff in a lump sum payment must be reported as remuneration for the week in which it is received unless the employer has elected to "allocate" the vacation payment over a designated period of weeks AND has notified the laid off employee in writing of its intention of allocating the accrued vacation payment over a period of weeks in which case the payment is considered remuneration for each of the weeks to which it is allocated. For example, if you have 3 unused weeks of accrued vacation pay entitlement and the employer pays it to you in one lump sum check, you are obligated to report the payment as earnings only for the week in which you received it. However, if the employer notifies you that it is allocating the vacation payment over three weeks, the agency will consider it remuneration in each of the three weeks.

Miss Conduct 3 years ago

I am going to my third redetermination hearing now in front of a judge. What should I expect? What should I bring to plead my case? I have letters from former supervisors and pay stubs to show bonuses, etc..

Is this in person and in a court room, who will be allowed to be there?

Thanks Ralph.

Miss Conduct 3 years ago

I am going to my third redetermination hearing now in front of a judge. What should I expect? What should I bring to plead my case? I have letters from former supervisors and pay stubs to show bonuses, etc..

Is this in person and in a court room, who will be allowed to be there?

Thanks Ralph.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

In Michigan the judges allow 1 hour per case. Usually the hearings last less than an hour. The witnesses testify under oath and the hearings are tape recorded in case there is an appeal. If the issue is alleged misconduct the burden is on the employer to offer first-hand testimony (not hearsay) proving the alleged misconduct. You or your representative and/or the judge may cross-examine the employer witnesses. Then you will have the opportunity to testify in your own behalf, either in response to questions from your representative or from the judge who has the duty of insuring that claimants who are not represented by attorneys or advocates get a fair hearing. Good luck.

Skipper 3 years ago

Thank you for your previous answer, On the spot as usual...

If i might bend your ear one more time, I will be calling MARVIN tomorrow morning for my fist time and reporting my vacation pay. It stated in the Green Book that I have to call UIA regarding the vacation pay after reporting it on MARVIN, I'm curious as to why that is necessary.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I assume that it's necessary to call UIA regarding vacation pay because the rules regarding receipt of vacation pay are somehwat complex and may depend in part on whether you received your entire vacation pay entitlement in a single check or you are receiving it a week at a time or whether your employer has elected to "allocate" your vacation pay week by week for the number of weeks to which you are entitled. Got that? :-)

Skipper 3 years ago

I receieved my vacation pay in one lump sum by check, I'm assuming what your saying is that they need to clarify which method you are recieving the vacation pay as to how many weeks it will effect my UIA benefits.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

That means you will not be eligible for unemployment compensation during that week, provided your employer did not "allocate" the amount over the number of weeks for which you received vacation pay.

Jawad UK  3 years ago

Thanks Ralph on delivering such a informative resource.

Jawad UK  3 years ago

Thanks Ralph on delivering such an informative resource.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

You're welcome.

Tommy T 3 years ago

Ralph,

I was recently terminated for allegedly stealing company property. My employer claimed I stole something and had me arrested for felony theft. After bonding out of jail I sought legal counsel and went through the legal motions. At my preliminary hearing that charged was dropped. I was not convicted of any felony or any theft. I was deemed uneligible on the grounds that "there is sufficient documentation to establish theft." This seemed odd as I was not convicted nor did I steal anything. Is there any way I can obtain that documentation from UIA? I am planning to appeal and would like to know what "documentation" is being used against me so that I may effectively protest?

Also, after my hearing I applied with and was hired by a competitor of my former employer. They (my new employer) knew the situation and what actually happened(i didn't steal anything) and put me to work. I was ready to move on and get back to business. When my former employer found out where I was working and began calling other companies in the industry, both locally and all over the country, as far away from Michigan as Texas and Florida, to give them my name, my new employer and what he claims happened involving this alleged theft. Long story short, it created so many problems for my new employer and potential a loss of business, that they had to let me go. Is this something I can handle at my appeal or should I go to civil courts with it? I t just seems unjust that he can fire me, get me fired from another job, and be able to deny compensation.

I know it's a mess.......but I appreciate anything you think might help.

Thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I'm not sure what you mean by handle--your eligibility for unemployment benefits as a result of your termination by your second employer or filing suit for civil damages against your first employer.

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that you might have a basis for suing your former employer depending on who you could get to testify and any other evidence you could come up with to prove that he was spreading malicious, innacurate comments about you.

So far as your eligibility for benefits is concerned, from what you said it appears to me that it will be hard for your second employer to meet his burden of proving misconduct on your part. Misconduct has been defined in Michigan courts as "wanton or willful disregard of the interest of the employer." This is a high burden for employers to get over. Of course the unemployment compensation hearing will deal only with your elibibility for unemployment compensation, not with the issue of whether your employer had good cause for firing you. Michigan is an "at will" state where, in the absence of an individual employment contract or union contracrt, employers are not required to have good cause for firing an employee, except for discrimination.

Tommy T 3 years ago

Thanks for the tip....Is there anyway I can obtain the "sufficient documentation" used to "establish theft" by the UIA prior to an appeal hearing???

Thanks Again

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

You can go to the appeals office where your hearing is scheduled and ask to review the case file. Or if you have an advocate or attorney they can get a copy of the case file from the Unemployment Insurance Agency if there is sufficient time before the hearing.

Sue L. 3 years ago

I have been receiving unemployment after being terminated. I have just been notified that my unemployment has been extended for an additional 13 weeks. I am considering creating an LLC to do freelance consulting. As of yet I have no clients. Will forming this company disqualify me from the additional 13 weeks?

i

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Not until you start making enough money to disqualify you or to reduce the amount of your benefit SO LONG AS YOU ARE STILL AVAILABLE AND SEEKING SUITABLE EMPLOYMENT. You need to be able to tell the agency if anyone asks that you would accept a suitable job if you were offered one. Beware of your former employer protesting your benefits if they become aware that you are trying to start a business. The case law is on your side. The act is not intended to discourage people who are drawing benfits from trying to start a business.

KN 3 years ago

Hi Ralph,

i was terminated for failing a drug test...i know. as expected i was found ineligible. i'm considering appealing this on the basis of, after the test results, i talked with my employer and placed on probation. i was supposed to begin treatment in a rehabilitation program and give a clean test prior to returning to full-time field work(we worked on the road, out of town). a couple of weeks later, and before completion of my treatment, i was told i was going back on the road and my rehab would have to wait. at the jobsite, field tests were administered and low and behold, it was still dirty.

can i appeal

KN 3 years ago

(sorry i got cut-off)

can i appeal on the grounds that proper dot procedures were not followed in my termination? and that if i showed any disregard for the employers interests, they were no less than his own disregard by sending me back out knowing that i had a problem? or should i just save some taxpayers money amnd time and chalk it up as a loss??

Thanks,

KN

Sandy 3 years ago

Hi Ralph -

I responded to a redetermination notice about 6 weeks ago. My employer reported to the UIA that I quit my job voluntarily, when I actually took a maternity leave. This notice asked for a response from me.

I sent a fairly detailed response back, with a doctor's note AND a note from my employer indicating I did take maternity leave and when I returned the position was not available (the company outsources their payroll dept and it was this company that indicated I quit). I sent you a note on this when I got the notice (in a panic).

So I mailed my response over 5 weeks ago but have heard nothing. I cannot get through on the toll free line. Is no news good news in a situation like this? I've also received 3 unemployment checks since I responded. Seems crazy that they would continue to send checks to ask for them back later.

Anyway, I'm still a little nervous waiting for some type of response. What are your thoughts on what is going on.

Thanks so much!!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

There are several "problem resolution offices" around the state where you can talk face-to-face with a UIA representative. It might be worthwhile for you to visit the nearest office. They should be able to check and tell you the status of your case. Here's a link to their web page:

http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--78925--,

KN 3 years ago

I guess better luck next time..?

KAD 3 years ago

Hi Ralph,

I quit a job in MI to take a job in Chicago, IL. I was then laid off from my job in Chicago after 3 months due to workforce reduction. I was told by the IL Unemployment Office that I was not eligible to file in IL and that I would need to file in MI. I did file in MI at the begining of Dec. I have set up the online account, the direct deposit account, posted my resume with Michigan Works and have been calling MARVIN at my scheduled times. I still have not heard whether or not I am approved from unemployment benefits. Can you shed any light on the likeliness I will be approved or how long cases like this take for a determination? Any information would be helpful, as I'm having a very hard time getting through to anyone in the offices.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I'm not sure off the top of my head what the correcct answere to your question is. I'll try to do some research and get back to you. You may want to call the help line on the Michigan UIA website. In the meantime KEEP CALLING MARVIN until your case and any appeals are resolved!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Kn, your only chance as far as I know would be that the lab that performed your test didn't follow the prescribed protocol. However, it doesn't cost you anything to appeal for an ALJ hearing. You might get lucky.

Dennis 3 years ago

Hi Ralph,

I posted here about three months ago in regards to a SLIP leave my wife had taken and was subsequently denied unemployment. We filed for the redetermination about 3 months ago and we have heard nothing back. We have called the UIA several times during this time. The last two times we called we got the "I'm walking this in to my manager right now" schtick. Do they have a legal time limit within which they need to respond back? This has moved beyond unreasonable in my mind and if we need to bump this up the legal ladder we will do that.

Also, we are coming up on the 26 week time limit. Will they consider us for an extension even if we are currently considered eligible?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

You should have received a redetermination long ago. You may want to go in person to the nearest "Problem Resolution Office" and speak in person to a UIA representative. Keep an accurate record of each contact, including the name of the representative with whome you spoke, you have with the Agency by phone or by mail. Contacts by letter are better than by phone because the letters become a part of the record of your case. In situations like yours I would document your case by registered return receipt mail. Also, to preserve your eligibility claim you must continue to call MARVIN to certify for each week for which you are claiming benefits. The 26 week limit has been extended in Michigan to, as I recall, 39 weeks. However, if your wife has continued to call MARVIN, if determined to be eligible, she should get a check for those weeks.

Brettq 3 years ago

I was a 1099 paid contractor for most of the year. But i also was paid on a W-2 also for part of the year, will i be denied because of the 1099

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

You are obligated to report all earnings (1099 and W2) to MARVIN week by week. The Unemployment Agency will determine your eligibility or partial eligibility for each week based on the amounts of earnings you report to in accordance with Agency procedures. The calculations are based on your earnings each week, not the 1099 and W2 amounts for the entire year.

blessed 3 years ago

Hello Ralph,

My husband was employed with his former employer for almost 9 years, he relocated from Alabama to Ohio march of 2005, we married on Jan. 14, 2006, and our son and I moved to Ohio on Jan 16, 2006. And I became employed with the same company on Jan 31, 2006, and about 9 months later my husband was offered a promotion as operations manager. My husband worked hard to receive the promotion even after he received the promotion he stayed committed. He worked long days and nights, he also received many awards and saved the company contract with the client and also received vendor of the quarter at the call center numerous times. and did not receive the raise that he was promised but my husband continued to work and loved his job and the people there because this is all he has known for the last 9 years, and on June 9, 2008 my husband was terminated. And the reason that he was given for dismissal, was that he left work early on 2 occasions, one was 30 minutes and 1 hour early, on may 9th and 13th. This was a shock to us. My husband explained to his boss that on these days he did not take a lunch and also his boss checked his card swipes at the entrance. So then my he applied for unemployment and he was denied, and we were in a financial bind he was the bread winner and I was trying to maintain my job and work overtime, we have a son and bills, we could not avoid to pay rent and other expenses with just my income, my husband applied for jobs and was not successful, then we received a notice from the landlord, and so we had to relocate, we did not have family in Ohio, and no were to go, no money, so I had to resign from my job, and we moved back to Alabama, applied for unemployment and I have been denied, I have appealed it twice, still denied, I have my over the phone hearing on next week and I just wanted to know if you think that my resignation is good cause, DO I have a case?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Note: I have no experience in Ohio. In Michigan, I doubt that you would be found to be eligible. Absent compelling reasons attributable to your employer, employees who resign are not eligible for benefits. From what you said your husband was eligible for benefits. His actions did not amount to disqualifying misconduct, in my opinion. If not, his termination was actually a layoff disguised as a termination. I wonder if he was replaced by someone after he was terminated. And I wonder if there was not some other reason behind his termination.

I'm sorry I'm unable to provide you with a more encouraging opinion.

Matt 3 years ago

I live in Michigan and I am confused by the requalify by reworking. For instance, if you are found ineligible to receive benefits because you quit a job without good reason, then you can requalify by finding a new job, work there, and make atleast 12 times the WBA. So if you had a WBA of $362 and times that by 12 times you would get $4344. Is the rule saying that if you work somewhere and make that much money that you can now quit that job since you are now eligible again? Also is that $4344 before or after taxes. Thanks for your help!

One more quick question about the fact finding questionaire that they give out in Michigan. What exactly are those forms for? Does the person that reviews those forms actually read the information/answers that the unemployed person wrote down. Thanks again

Matt

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

When you quit a job without "good cause attributable to your employer" you are not eligible for benefits. Good cause can be unsafe working conditions, being instructed to do something illegal or dishonest, bounced paychecks or other serious problem which you have complained about but has not been corrected.

Yes, the Unemployment Insurance Agency claims examiners read the information you furnish on the questionnaires. They use the information you furnish to determine your eligibility. Also, they notify your employer of your application and send the employer a similar questionnaire. Your eligibility is based on the information you furnish and the information your employer furnishes. You and your employer have the right to contest an agency determination or redetermination by requesting a hearing before an administrative law judge.

Miss Conduct 3 years ago

After the hearing with the Admin Judge, is there another appeal if I should lose or is that it? Is there an appeal available for the employer when I win (as my advocate is highly suggesting)?

I just dont want to win and have the bulk of the back pay come to my bank and then have to repay it if I lose an appeal from my former employer.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Either you or your former employer, whoever loses before the administrative law judge, has the right to appeal to the Board of Review in Lansing (which must RECEIVE the appeal within 30 days). Beyond that a case may be appealed to the Circuit Court and Michigan Supreme Court and to the federal courts. As a practical matter, few cases are appealed beyond the Board of Review. And, in my experience, the Board of Review more often than not affirms the ALJ decisions. Good luck!

Rick 3 years ago

Thanks for all the help you have given us. I live in Michigan and voluntarily quit my job in order to take a full time and permanent position with another company. I worked there about 4 months and was laid off. I applied for the benefits and they sent me a fact finding questionaire to ask a few questions such as "did you quit your job to accept another full time job" and "was the job expected to be permanent" etc. I filled it out and sent it in. I was told in about 6-8 weeks they would make a decision. I have not head anything yet but I contacted the employer who laid me off and they said they have not received any info or questionaire to fill out from the unemployment agecny. Would the agency just go off of my answers and not compare them to the compnay that laid me off? I was trutful on the questionaire because I bascially met all the requirements pointed out in the Michigan unemployment handbook, so I have nothing to hide. Thanks for any advice you may have.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Rick,

It sounds to me like you are eligible. As you might imagine the UIA is very busy these days. It might be a good idea to go in person to one of the agency's "Problem Resolution Offices" and talk face-to-face with a representative. In the meantime continue to call MARVIN in accordance with agency procedures. Good luck!

Here's a list of the PROs: (There's a link to the PRO website above.)

Detroit (Temporary) - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-500, Detroit, MI 48202

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

Grand Rapids - 3391A Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

Livonia - 33523 W. 8 Mile Rd., Livonia, MI 48152  

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

 

Rick 3 years ago

If I go into one of the offices, could they determine if I am eligible right there on the spot? I would bring in all the info that I have along with the fact finding questionaire of course. They told me to try and call sometime next week and they would have a manager take care of it. If I can just go into the office, I would much rather do that. Thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I doubt that the rep would be able to give you a determination on the spot. He or she should be able to check on your case and perhaps jar it loose and even give you an opinion on your eligibility. It might be a good idea to keep a careful written record of all your contacts with the Unemployment Insurance Agency, noting date, time, who you spoke to, what they told you etc. My impression from talking to others that phone calls don't always achieve the desired results.

Rachel 3 years ago

I was reading through this information to hopefully get some more insight on my situation. Hopefully you may be able to point my in the right direction. I was recently let go from a bank job that I worked at for about 2 and a half years Oct 8th, I filed that same day I was let go. I went through all the questions about previous employment and I had to fill in all the information. While I was working at the bank I was also working a small part time job as a Massage Therapist a couple hours a week. This job was only appointment based and I was working both at the same time. I decided to leave that place and my last day was Oct. 2nd. I quit the Massage job (employee) for another Massage job (independent contracted position) that I thought I was going to get more clients at and it was closer to the bank I was working at. While working at the place I left, I had only grossed a total of $130 for the whole time I was there. I had just gotten out of school and was able to get into that place to get started. I wanted to go to the other place since it was closer to the bank and I was under the impression I would be able to get more clients working there. I filed all this information for the unemployment from getting let go at the bank and I got the Determination back saying I was qualified benefits from the bank but I was disqualified for the benefits due to leaving the Massage job. I sent in a protest on the decision and they are still denying me because of that job and they are saying I didn't meet the "leaving to accept" requirements. Now I dont know what to do. I dont understand how that job had anything to do with getting let go from the bank when I quit before I was even let go from the bank. If you could give me any advise I would greatly appreciate it as I dont know what to do at this point.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Unusual case. I'm not sure of the answer. Seems to me tht the agency's application of the 29(5 leaving to accept provision is not consistent with the purpose of the act as stated in 421.2, Sec. 2 "Declaration of policy. The legislature...declares that the public policy of the state is as follows: Economic insecurity due to unemployment is a serious menace to the health, morals, and welfare of the people of this state. Involuntary unemployment is a subject of general interest and concern which requires action by the legislature to prevent its spread and to lighten its burden which so often falls with crushing force upon the unemployed worker and his family, to the detriment of the welfare of the people..."

In Godsol v. M.U.C.C., 302 Mich 652 (1942) the court ruled as follows: "The purpose of the unemployment compensation act is to releive the distress of economic insecurity due to unemployment. It was enacted in the interest of pub lic welfare to provide for assistance to the unemployed, and AS SUCH IS ENTITLED TO A LIBERAL INTERPRETATION."

In my opinion, the agency's interpretation in your case was anything but liberal and not consistent with the purpose of the unemployment statute.

It doesn't cost anything to appeal to an ALJ hearing. You have nothing to lose.

Rick 3 years ago

I wanted to inform you how backed up the UIA really is. I was asked if I was in good standing with the company that had laid me off after I originally quit my job to work for them full time. I told the UIA rep that I was and they told me to go and have the company put down a few statements on company letterhead such as "Was the job expected to be permanent" and "was the job full time." They want me to write my name, ss #, and a few other minor details and have me fax it in to them. I already filled out my fact finding form and sent that in about 8 weeks ago. I can't believe that they never mailed anything to my former company. I guess they could have mailed something out today and I would have to wait another month or so to find anything out so I give them credit for letting me go directly to the company and deal with it that way.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

That's worse than I suspected. Thanks for getting back. Your comment may help others.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The Economic Recovery and Investment Act passed yesterday provides the following:

If you exhaust regular unemployment benefits by the end of the year, you'll qualify for a 33-week extension. Current rules required exhaustion by March 31.

Added $25 a week to unemployment benefits.

For nine months, the federal government will pay 65% of health insurance premium for unemployed people falling under the COBRA program, which allows some workers to keep the coverage offered by their previous employers.

13.6% increase in Food Stamp benefits:'

Source: Detroit Free Press Feb. 14, 2009

Matt 3 years ago

So, in Michigan that means the potential for 26 weeks (regular benefits) and 33 week extention for a total of 59 possible weeks of unemployment. That should hopefully help some people out who would have otherwise missed the extention deadline.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Yep. One problem is that the Michigan unemployment compensation statute and agency procedures are full of "tricks and traps" for the unwary which result in a significant number of people who should be eligible being declared ineligible.

Thomas 3 years ago

I originally qualified for 26 weeks of unemployment at $362 per week here in Michigan. I have about 17 weeks left and I wondered what are the qualifications that have to be met in order to receive the extention of 33 extra weeks? Also how does the extention process work? I understand that something will come in the mail prior to the ending of normal benefits and one would have to reapply for the extention. I guess I am just wondering what they could possibly look at to see if one is eligible for the extention. Thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I don't know what the procedure is. I assume everyone is eligible for the extension. The Unemployment Agency is very busy. You could try calling them or visiting one of their Problem Resolution Offices. Or just keep certifiying by contacting MARVIN and wait til you get something in the mail. (As you may have gathered, I don't work for the Unemployment Agency. I'm an independent appeals advocate.)

Thomas 3 years ago

I completely understand. From what I gathered, it seems like everone is eligilble as long as you follow the same procedures that regular unemployment requires. (Look for work, don't turn down work, etc.)

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I think that's correct. But I haven't actually seen the rules or procedures yet. I'll try the UIA website linked above and see if there's anything on it yet. Here's a link to the latest info on the official UIA website.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/uia/Extended_Ben

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Here's what the U.S. Department of Labor website says:

http://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/unemploy/exten

Al 3 years ago

Mr. Deeds, I was laid off due to a plant closing in Sept. '07. The plant closing fell under NAFTA as our customer moved the job to Canada. I am currently going to school under TRA/TAA. The company told the employees that they had talked with UIA and that the vacation/severance pay we got will not be considered as earned wages and not to claim this money. The company gave everyone a memo concerning this and in it cited the UIA Manual of Precedents, Benefit Interpretation No. 20-641 (7-15-02) and UC Manual, Part V, Wage Record Handbook, 6576 (6) WR. In a nutshell this states that any renumeration that is a direct result of a plant closing.....will not be considered as earned wages for the purpose of calculating unemployment compensation, regardless of when the payments are made. The company specifically instructed us not to claim any of this money.

I have received a letter from UIA asking me to repay the money I received from them for the week in which I received this vacation/severance check. The UIA said the money is considered renumeration under Section 48 of the MES Act. I went to the PRO office and filed an appeal and now I'm scheduled for a hearing.

So, the question is, am I lost in a bureaucratic maze of conflicting rules or do I stand a chance of winning?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Here's a link to the UIA bulleting on severance pay

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/uia_SeverancePay

Here's a paragraph from the Agency's General Rules

R 421.302 Vacation pay.

Rule 302. When an employer is entitled to designate, pursuant to section 48 of the Michigan employment security act, vacation pay to a period of

layoff, forced vacation, or other separation, the employer shall either deliver to the affected employee and to the employee's bargaining

representative, if any, on or before the employee's last day of work, written notice of such designation stating that such designation may

render the employee ineligible for unemployment benefits during the designated period or shall post such notice conspicuously in easily

accessible places frequented by employees and deliver a copy thereof to the employee's bargaining representative, if any. However, as to an

individual laid off prior to the time of designation, posting of the notice shall not substitute for the requirement of delivery of the notice to such individual by mail.

I don't have a copy of the UIA Manual of Precedents. I'll see if I can find it On-line.

The general rule on severance pay is that it is disqualifying during the week it is received or for weeks to which it is "allocated" by the employer in accordance with UIA procedures.

I can't say for sure what your chances are before the ALJ. You have nothing to lose by appealing. Good luck. If I find any other information, I'll post it here.

Mike S 3 years ago

This past September I left my job as an Auto sales Consultant in Michigan to travel to Arizona to donate a Liver to an old friend. I had gotten the time off approved with my employer. Ten days after surgery my employer called mt wife and was demanding payment for my health insurance premiums. As I was still in the hospital recovering from some complications it was an unpleasant call for my wife to field at the time. She called back and told the owner that she thought they didn't care about their employees very much and didn't think much of them herself.

Ten days later I received an e-mail from ownership stating they felt I should find a new employer. I was still recovering from this surgery and wasn't able to answer this in a timelt matter.

After three months I was awarded U.I.A. benfits, but the employer appealed and I was cut off-Owing $3000 in benefits received. I appealed and lost the hearing. The judge had the answer to the complaint post marked less than an hour after my hearing and it was in my mailbox the net morning.

What is the best way for myself to appeal this verdict?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The material in the website above and the material (Green Booklet) which you should have received from the UIA explains the appeal procedures. You have 30 days from the date on the judge's decision to appeal to the Board of Review in Lansing. The address and how to appeal is on the bottom of the judge's decision. The Board of Review must RECEIVE your appeal withing 30 days of the date the decision was mailed. All you have to do is write a letter stating that you disagree with the judge's decision and that you request that the Board of Review review the judge's decision. The Board of Review will render a decision based on the transcript of the hearing before the judge. I would have to read the judge's decision and the case file in order to predict the outcome. Sounds to me like you had good cause for not being able to make timely responses to your employer or to the agency. The Board of Review usually doesn't reverse the decisions of the administrative law judges, but sometimes they do.

Mike S 3 years ago

Thank you for your comment. How could I get the decision to you-I'd love to discuss this more with you.

Al 3 years ago

Thank you for your help.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I'll call you if you provide me your phone number by emailing me through Hubpages or by posting it in a comment box.

Mike S 3 years ago

Was the "I will call you" comment for myself Mr Deeds?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Yes.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

FEDS EXTEND UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITSStat-Fed Program Pays Up to 13 Additional WeeksSome unemployed workers in Michigan may be eligible for up to 13 additional weeks of unemployment benefits after they have exhausted their state unemployment insurance benefits and their two existing federal extensions."Michigan is now eligible to pay extended benefits through the federal-state Extended Benefits program," said Stephen Geskey, director of Michigan's Unemployment Insurance Agency (UIA). 

"Citizens who establisheda claim for state unemployment benefits on or after February 3, 2008, may qualify for the new Extended Benefits program once they exhaust their federal Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC).

"To qualify for Extended Benefits (EB), Geskey said that eligible workers must:·    

Be unemployed or underemployed·    

Have an unemployment benefit year that ends on or after January 31,2009.  A benefit year is a 52-week period starting from the week in which aworker applies for state unemployment benefits;·    

Have exhausted all of their state and federal unemployment benefitsand federal extensions (EUC) and cannot establish a new claim; and·    

Perform a work search and list the employers contacted each week.  Asevidence of their work search, workers will have to supply the names of employers they have contacted over the prior two weeks, as well as the name

of the individual they contacted at each business, their method of contact,type of work they sought, and the results of their contact.

The EB program pays unemployed workers what they received in state unemployment benefits up to an additional 13 weeks.  The weekly benefit amount is the same as what the individual received in state benefits.

The EB program starts when a state's insured unemployment rate (IUR) climbsabove 5.0 percent and is 20 percent higher than in the previous two years.Michigan's IUR surpassed 5.0 percent for the week of January 10 and was 42 percent higher than the average for the same period for the last two years.The week ending January 31 was the first week for which EB was payable.Once EB triggers on, it remains in effect for at least 13 weeks.

UIA mailed letters to approximately 250 unemployed workers in the state that it identified as being potentially eligible for EB at this time. Going forward, unemployed workers will automatically receive notices to file for EB when they are about to exhaust their final EUC benefit payments.  The notice will tell them how to apply for EB.Extended Benefit costs are shared 50/50 by the federal government and the state for most employers.  The state's share comes from the UI trust fundand is then charged on a prorated basis back to the employer(s).

Governmental employers are charged 100 percent for EB.In Michigan, the state unemployment insurance program provides up to 26 weeks of benefits, the first federal Emergency Unemployment Compensation(EUC) program provides up to 20 weeks of benefits, the second part of EUC grants up to 13 additional weeks and EB will now provide up to 13 more weeks of benefits to qualified unemployed workers.

Courtesy of state representative Gilda Jacobs's "Capitol Report"

Susan F 3 years ago

I was laid off om 1-31-09 because the company I worked for closed. I applied for unemployment and received a monetary determination of 362.00 per week. I interviewed for another positon two weeks later and accepted it , even though it was for 58% less than what I had previously been making. I was told at the interview everyone was hired for 30 days as a temp. and then it would be decided who would be asked to remain on permanently after the 30 day period was up. During the temp weeks I will be working fulltime hours with overtime, earning as much as I would have been paid in unemployment. Should I continue to certify with Marvin during this "temp" period of time? I realize I will not receive unemployment payments during that time even if I do certify. I don't know that I will be able to get to a phone to call Marvin, because I will be too busy working. If I don't call Marvin what happens? If at the end of 30 days, I am not kept on as permanent, what do I do? If I call Marvin all along, do I report that I am working fulltime (when it is considered a temp position to start)? I assume I'd be OK, as I would just report no earnings after 30 days again. If I quit calling Marvin, then do I have to recertify if I find out I will not be kept on as permanent? I am new to all of this. I have worked my entire life and have never been through this before. Thank You for any help!

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I confess. I'm not fure of the answer to your question. But to be on the safe side I would continue to call MARVIN to certify. In any event, you should be able to file again and become eligible if you are not hired at the end of your 30-day period.

valerie 3 years ago

hello, my husband had his hearing yesterday, and during it , the judge told the employer that it sounded like he was discharged for a personality conflict. And the employer said most definitely. With that being said, is that a reason to be denied UI. It was stated that my husband had tried to transfer to get away frm the person he had a conflict with but was denied, and shes the one that actually terminated, In 8 years he only had 1 write up which was in july, and he was fired in october. The judge had asked what did he do currently and what was the final straw that made you decide to discharge him, and they could not come up with anything. Does this sound like a slam dunk case, or could they come back with something, about the personality confict, and deny him, or the one write up from 3 months prior hurt him. They also had said that he had performed his job satisfactorily.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Sounds like a winner! (for your husband)

Susan F 3 years ago

Thank you for your quick answer. I have been in limbo over this matter for days. But just to confim: Shall I answer yes, when Marvin asks if I'm working fulltime. Or shall I answer no, because it really isn't a full time job. It is merely a temporary position at this point. I almost wished I wouldn't have taken it all now because it's become so confusing and it's for a much lower wage ( which was explained at the time I applied). I've only worked 3 days so far. If I quit, I assume I would lose all my benefits. If for some reason I cannot get to a phone to continue to certify, because of the demanding hours of this job, could I just reopen an existing claim at a later date? I really appreciate your help, because so many of us going through this for the first time in their lives, just don't know what to do. The hotline number is constantly busy and one cannot get through to a live person to get help. I just want to be clear on everything. Thanks again!

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

You should call MARVIN and answer "yes" to the first question which is "Are you back to work full time." Then enter your 6 digit back-to-work date. And on question #7 report your earnings.

Jennifer Dalton 3 years ago

I am having the same dilema with a temporary position I just started. I have found temporary work for 6 weeks with fulltime hours. After 6 weeks I will be let go due to lack of work when the position ends. All the while I am working should I continue to call Marvin and report my earnings? Or once I tell Marvin I am back to work fulltime (even though temporarily) will I no longer receive benefits at all? Or should I just quit calling Marvin and after I am laid-off from the temp position, just reopen a claim at that point? What is the difference between reopening a claim and activating a new claim? Perhaps what I would be doing is opening a new claim? There may be a slim chance this job could turn into permanent partime work at best. I am very confused and can't get through to the hotline number. You are so informed and helpful with these matters. Any thorough information is greatly appreciated.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I'm not positive of the answers to your questions. You may want to contact the agency here'

http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--79590--,

In my opinion you can't go wrong by continuing to call MARVIN and report your earnings. If your earnings are low you may be eligible for a partial benefit. I am not sure exactly what the procedures on this are and I don't have time right now to research the issue. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

caseyjones 3 years ago

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We met with an Administrative Law Judge with the unemployment office concerning our appeal of a family owned business law which limits our, my wife and me, unemployment benefits to seven weeks. Our appeal was an attempt to show proof we had contributed to the unemployment fund for almost twenty-seven years and had never drawn once on that fund. Under duress our bank requested we sell our business and close the doors on November, 2008. The bank forgave much of our loans and we sold at a huge loss and left with zero profit. The company that purchased our business agreed to hire us and after one week of employment they let both of us go. At ages of 61 and 62 we are unable to find even a part time job. Our benefits will end in two weeks under the limitations set forth by the UIA and our appeal was denied. I clearly understand why the law was adopted as family members could abuse the system under normal day to day business. This case is clearly different and something appears unjust. The Law Judge today recommended we contact you for your assistance as he agreed with us. Could you please comment?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Wow! I'm surprised that the judge would send you to me if he couldn't help you. I would be curious which judge said that. You have the right to appeal to the Board of Review in Lansing, if you get the appeal to them within 30 days. (A postmark won't do it.) It doesn't cost anything to appeal. However, I wouldn't count on getting the judge's decision reversed. His ruling sounds correct to me off the top of my head without researching the issue or reading your file. I could discuss the case with you if you sent me a phone number via HubPages. You have my sympathy, but no good ideas occur to me.

Jack T 3 years ago

What happens when one is unsure of the exact amount of earnings that will be received in a given week when calling Marvin? I generally know I work close to 30 partime hrs at 9.15 per hr. and can come close, but perhaps not exact, because I don't see the actual pay check until 1 week later. Marvin asks for dollars and cents amounts for specific weeks. THere is always one week I'm not sure of until I see the actual check. Is it oK to come relatively close on the amount? I have called that toll free number for days and cannot get through. The system is ridiculous. The red tape and problems of getting through to get an answer is unbelievable. Someone has to do something to help us get answers. You're one of the few who care. Thanks for any help.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

You could try going to one of the Problem Resolution Centers and talk to a human being, face-to-face. I can't imagine that being off a bit on an estimate of your earnings would cause a big problem. However, my understanding is that the Unemployment Insurance Agency has computer access to your earnings. So, your estimates had better be pretty close. I've never gone through this process so I'm not absolutely sure what the right answer is. As you probably know the agency is very busy these days.

Lenore W 3 years ago

My Michigan application for unemployment benefits is a royal mess and I am unsure how to proceed. Even trying to give you a short synopsis is a challenge, but I'll try.

I quit my job for what I believe is good reason. They cut my full time hours to part time then demanded the same level of performance. At the same time I quit, I received an application for extended benefits from my last employer. I filled out the form listing my most recent employer and last date worked of 7-25-08. 7-31-08 I filed by telephone for benefits from the most recent employer, and told the representative about the EUC form. I began receiving extended benefits, and made numerous calls to the help line to be certain the correct information was being processed. From late October 2008 until late January, 2009, the UIA phone lines were so jammed it was impossible to get through on any line, except MARVIN. I am 100 miles from the nearest Problem Resolution Office.

I never received a Determination on my 7-31-08 application. In early November I received two different but similar "Fact Finding Forms" that I filled out and returned. Both forms had different information regarding benefit year and claim filing dates, none of which were correct, or even close.

A few days later I received two different monetary Determinations if otherwise qualified regarding my last employer, each with different dates, none of which were correct.

In late January, 2009 I received two separate "Notice of (Re)Determination" forms and two forms for Notice of Restitution Due. The 13 weeks of payments I received that ended in October, 2008 were apportioned in different amounts by the UIA between my last employer and the extended benefits from my previous employer. None of the forms had any of the correct dates and they differed from each other.

One of the (Re)Determination form said I was disqualified for benefits from my last employer based on a statement made by the employer. I never received a Determination on my 7/31/08 application. or a Protest or Notice of Appeal filed by my last employer, or an opportunity to challenge the employers statement.

A Determintion and a Redetermination have different appeal processes. But what is a (Re)Determination when there has been no Determination? I have been working on filing a "Protest" and request for Redetermination, but maybe I should be working on an Appeal of Redetermination.

The Michigan Employment Security Act provides for determinations to be made promptly. The Act does not define the word "prompt," but I don't think it means 6 months! It also requires certain filings to be made by the employer within specific time periods. None of those things occurred here. The Agency is also supposed to make available to the public a copy of the Act, and copies of its Rules of administration. Neither is on the website. The Act I can find online in public laws, but nowhere can I find a publication of the Rules. There is a booklet "Employment Benefits in Michigan," but it does not include UIA Rules.

Sorry this is so long.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

You might try going to a Problem Resolution Office and talking face-to-face with a UIA representative. Here's a link to this service. You might be able to get a copy of the UIA rules there or get to look at a copy. Michigan Works might also be helpful. http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--78925--, The next step after you receive a re-determination is to ask for a hearing before an Administrative Law Judge. Be sure to file your appeals within the time limits and in accordance with agency procedures. Also, I recommend that you make a record of all contacts with the agency including the date, time, the name of the individual with whom you spoke and what you were told. The agency has huge backlogs and is taking longer than usual to process the applications and making more mistakes than usual.

http://www-michiganworks.com/claim-michigan-unempl

Theresa 3 years ago

Hi Ralph -

Do you know how back-to-back claims work? I was on UI in MI when I was hired into a short term contract position. The position lasted 4 months, over 2 quarters. The salary meets the requirements for a UI claim. However, once the position was complete, and nothing else was made available to me, I applied for UI again. They reactivated my old claim. I had 21 weeks of benefits remaining.

This claim is about to run out. Now there is the 20 extention. However, would I be entitled to file a new claim? I've read the pamphlet sent to me but it is not clear. I don't know if I should file for an extention or file a new claim.

Would you know? Thanks so much.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The information on this link should answer your question

https://cwam.unemployment.state.mi.us/euc/WebConte

Information on extension of unemployment benefits http://www.michigan.gov/documents/uia/Extended_Ben On November 21, 2008, the President signed into law another extension of unemployment benefits. It provides that unemployed workers already on the original extension, Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC), or who have exhausted EUC, may receive: Up to another 7 weeks of federally-funded EUC benefits, for a total of 20 weeks maximum (increased from a total of 13 weeks maximum). Up to an additional 13 weeks of federally-funded EUC benefits in states such as Michigan with unemployment rates above 6%. For those currently receiving regular state unemployment benefits: Up to 20 weeks of federally-funded EUC benefits after regular benefits are exhausted. Then up to an additional13 weeks of federally-funded EUC benefits, when they exhaust those benefits and cannot establish a new regular state claim. The Unemployment Insurance Agency (UIA) will notify by mail all unemployed workers who have already exhausted their extensions or are about to exhaust their extensions, with instructions on what they need to do. These workers can expect letters by the week of December 12, 2008. Moving forward, the Agency will automatically notify unemployed workers by mail how to apply for the extension as they exhaust their regular benefits. Extended Benefits Q & A

Jack N. 3 years ago

I can thankfully say I'm fortunate enough that I have not had to experience the unemployment world. However if I should ever it's nice to know there is such a system out there for all of us who encounter hard times.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Yes. It's a lifesaver for a lot of people. And it helps promote recovery from economic recessions. Thanks for your comment.

Miss Conduct 3 years ago

After the 3rd appeal the Judge finally saw things like I did and reversed the previous decision, my old compnay didnt prove I was let go becuase of bad intentions. They have 30 days to appeal.

How long till I get my back pay? and does the new unemployment figure (395/week)affect all my back pay or just whats happened the last month.

Ralph-Thank You for your kindness to us out in Michigan dealing with this hardship, your website and knowledge is unsurpassed and highly recommended.

Thank you so much, from me and my family and probably the credit card companies, they can get paid finally.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

It usually doesn't take very long. The judge sends his decision to the UIA and they send out the checks. Of course they are very busy right now and everything is taking longer. My guess is that you should get a check within a couple of weeks. Remember to keep certifying by calling MARVIN. Thanks for getting back on your case and for your compliment. Good luck!

Eric 3 years ago

Ralph, I recently took a "Voluntary" buyout from Chrysler. While I understand it was my decision to accept the buyout offer, it was clearly stated by Chrysler management that if not enough employees accepted the buyout, a layoff would result. They also issued a WARN act letter to all employees about possible layoffs. In addition the company petitioned the federal govt for Trade Adjustment Assistance citing "lack of work" and was approved. I now qualify for this TAA eligibility.

The state of michigan denied my unemployment claim citing that I voluntarily quit my job without good cause citing that continuing work was available.

How can in one program(TAA) they site lack of work to obtain benefits for employees and threaten employees with layoffs unless they take the buyouts, and now say that work is available?

Also, the state of michigan also stated we cannot be eligible for benefits until 6/12/2010? How would they come up with this date? The buyout information never stated a period of time that we would not receive unemployment?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Your case is in a gray area. If I were you I would appeal the Agency's decision to an Administrative Law Judge hearing. Get an advocate and take all your documentation of the conditions of your buyout to the hearing. Your argument that people laid off from the facility were ruled eligible for TAA strikes me as a good one. It may be a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Here's the phone number of a good advocate in SE Michigan--Steve at 586-212-4769.

joy 3 years ago

what burden of proof does an employer have to provide for a misconduct or dishonesty contest. do they have to have some sort of physical documents to support their claim suchas writeups, is it illegal for the judge to render a decision if it is all based off of hearsay.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

As you observed, the burden of proof is on the employer in cases involving allegations of misconduct. The type of proof required varies depending on the employer's claim. At a minimum the employer is expected to provide direct, first-hand, non-hearsay testimony about the alleged misconduct. The employer witness(s) is subject to cross-examination by the claimant's representative and to objections against any hearsay testimony. After the employer's presentation, the claimant has to opportunity to testify and present evidence and testimony from witness(s). The judge will base his decision on whether he finds the employer or the claimant's testimony more credible and on whether the alleged incident was serious enough to amount to misconduct. If he believes the employer's testimony/evidence that dishonesty occurred the claimant will be found ineligible.

Miss Conduct 3 years ago

Am I eligible for back payment of my UI benefeits? I have started to receive thru marvin that my first week of UI was in the mail today for 380, is the back pay going to be mailed out the same time or is there some special procedure to getting that in my hands?

Thanks Ralph!

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

It's hard for me to say without reading the judge's decision. I think you should receive one check for whatever else the agency owes you according to the judge's decision. You won't be eligible for any weeks for which you didn't certify by calling MARVIN.

Victoria - In Michigan 3 years ago

Will getting married affect my unemployment claim? Also I moved about 10 minutes away from where I previously lived. Will moving affect my claim?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Getting married will not affect your claim. You should inform the UIA of your change of address. I believe there is a form for doing that in the "green book."

Victoria - In Michigan 3 years ago

Thank you Ralph! With this whole unemployment thing being such a pain the neck and with the helplines being swamped it's so nice that you would take time to answer these questions for everyone! Thank you!

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

From today's NY Times--"Jobless Angry at Possibility of No Benefits."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/us/27govs.html?_

rcross21 3 years ago

I currently am employed in Detroit but will be moving up north in 30 days. I need to "quit" my job to move but I have a newborn that I must take care of till I can place her in daycare. Can I collect unemployment from the State of MI b/c of "child care needs"? Do I need to tell my HR department these details so they don't deny my claim?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The agency is quite likely to rule that you are not eligible for benefits even if your employer does not protest your claim. The basic rule is if you quit without good cause attributable to your employer you don't qualify for benefits, even for extenuating personal reasons such as yours. In Leeseberg v Smith-Jamieson Nursing, Inc. the couirt ruled that a claimant who was denied a leave of absence request to care at home for her injured husband was denied benefits for voluntary leaving. The court reasoned "Plaintiff chose to face termination because she wanted to care for her injured husband. While plaintiff's choice was prompted by compelling personal reasons, a good personal reason does not equate with good cause under the statute."

Sorry I'm unable to provide a favorable answer!

rcross21 3 years ago

I appreciate your speedy reply! I'll at least give it a shot, can't hurt to try! :)

Richard in MICH 3 years ago

I hope that you can help me with this question. I worked for a company for over 10 years and was fired in OCT 08. I applied for unemployment and received benefits until February 09 when i went to certify there was no amount or date for check given. I called and was told that i was disqualified during a redetermination and that i should have recieved a letter in dec of 08. I never received this letter! i moved to south Carolina in mid December and sent in the change of address form. I assume that whatever letter they sent got lost somewhere in this process or it took them awhile to process it. They are sending me another letter but im concerned that i will still not be able to appeal this since it was in December and it is now march 3rd! Do i still have an opportunity to appeal? I was terminated for what they called misconduct. Another employee that was fired at the same time admitted stealing and paid restitution to them and passed his redetermination! I never stole anything! i was fired for stupid reasons because i left the safe cracked while making change for the drawers from our petty cash which EVERYONE DOES! its a time delay safe. This whole thing is completely unfair! Thanks for any advice you can give.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Yes, you can appeal, requesting a hearing before an administrative law judge. (You can arrange for a telephone hearing.) In your appeal of the redetermination you should explain that you did not receive the the redetermination letter in December 2008. In cases of alleged misconduct the burden of proof is on the employer. The judge will weigh the employer's direct first-hand testimony against your testimony on the reasons for your dismissal. Good luck.

Richard in MICH 3 years ago

Thanks you Ralph for your advice! As others have stated you are providing and invaluable service here and can"t thank you enough for what you are doing! I do have one last question, when i file the appeal can i use the advocate program that Michigan offers since the claim is from Michigan and I have moved to south Carolina? Thanks again!

raye 3 years ago

i have been drawing benefits for 8 mths, i just had a hearing today, i guess the company appealed, but it was over wheather i was fired for misconduct or quit with good cause. I was never told i was fired, nor did i quit, i went on maternity leave, and when i returned the compnay i worked for did not have a spot for me to work, there schedule was full. so i would go in several times a weeka and call asking if they had any call offs ect. i was told no and that when something was avialable they would call me. back when i filed for ui i had my mangaer write me a letter saying that i had been coming in requesting work, and that he did not have the hours. i kept calling him for about 4 mths, where i finally kinda gave up, after being told over and over no hours yet. had hearing today, i submitted the letter. would this be considered being fired, or quitting, and i was originally approved for qutting for good cause they stated i was continuting my employment on an as needed basis. I am now worried, that i am going to be denied, and have to pay back what i have colledcted. the hearing was via phone, and was very informal, the judge accidentally hung up on me mid way, and i had to call to get back on the call, when i chimed in, i heard the employer talking to the judge, and then when it was announced i was on he shut up. he told her during the hearing i was an excellant worker, but they have had work available. he was the owner of the compnay. and asked me if i had called and he asked several peoples names, but they are managers of other stores that he owns, that i have never worked at. i had only worked at the one store. and have been there for years, until i went on maternity leave.

So being i never told anyone i quit, and let it be known, that i made sure they had my contact information, and that i was in there all the time looking to be put to work how can she make a ruling, what burden of proof did the employer have.

was he to prove that there was work avialable? or will she just listen to him saying there has always been work, I even had that statment frmo my manager saying he didnt have the hrs. To me i think if there was work, then i would be working. But the owner was very rude on the call, he even started bringin up the fact that i was going to school to make a career change, i worked in a resturant, and WAS going to school, but when i found out i didnt have a place to work, i had to quit, couldnt afford it. Is 4 mths suffienct enough to be requesting work from them, i chalked it up like they didnt want me, cause i did everything to try and put me on the schedule.

Another issue that came up was because my husband was a district for the company. I guess he was trying to bring up that he should have made sure they put me on. But work is work, my husband is not responsible for my employment, i am on my own, grnated he did tell them as soon as somehting came open to put me on, but i think maybe because he was their distirct, it intimidated them to no want me working for them.

i just dont know how this is going to go. And i really cant afford to pay anything back if its reversed. The owner did make a statemnt that he never called me for work. but he was trying to make it a point that i didnt call the other stores he owned, but i had never worked at them before.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Richard, to FILE an appeal all you need to do is follow the instructions on the back of the agency's redetermination. One sentence will do it--"I disagree with this redetermination and hereby request a hearing before an administrative law judge" or words to that effect. After filing your appeal you should receive a "Notice of Hearing" stating the date, time and place for the ALJ hearing and the issues on which he will rule. Also, you should receive a list of advocates' names and phone numbers and a description of Advocacy Program procedures. It will be to your advantage to sign up an advocate. He or she can help you arrange for a telephone hearing. Good luck!+

Raye, it sounds to me like you have a good case. The law does not require you to keep calling your former employer. It does require that you be "available and seeking employment."

Pam 3 years ago

Ralph, my husband has been drawing unemployment and is on his last 2 weeks of the EUC. A couple a weeks ago, on one of his checks was written that an EB application would be mailed out seperatly. He still has not received one, should he be concerned? We have not been able to get thru to anyone to get any info. I also want to tell you what a great service this hub page is and it is wonderful that you share your time and knowledge with everyone. I have been reading this page faithfully for about 6mos. You give people much needed info during very trying times. THANK YOU and KEEP IT UP!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I don't have any particular knowledge of what's going on with the Extended Benefit applications. However, if it doesn't come soon it might be a good idea to go to the nearest Problem Resolution Offices or Michigan Works! offices and talk to someone face-to-face. Thanks for the comment. Good luck!

Linda 3 years ago

Ralph - I am trying to help a friend and would appreciate your insights. She was suspended with full pay in June 2008, for what her Employer asserted was misconduct. My friend's union, however, filed an unfair labor practice charge with the National Labor Relations Board, and the NLRB issued a formal complaint alleging that the suspension was, in fact, in retaliation for my friend's union activity, and therefore illegal. A trial before the NLRB was scheduled. My friend continued to be paid during the suspension, until late October 2008, when her Employer fired her for the same incident that underlay the June suspension. The NLRB alleged the discharge, too, as illegal, and added it to the pending trial. Once fired in October 2008, my friend was no longer receiving any pay. The NLRB case is now settling, and under the settlement agreement: (a) my friend will receive backpay for the period from the October discharge to March 1, 2009; (b) she waives her right to reinstatement (legally different from a quit); and (c) the suspension and discharge must be expunged from the Employer's records. FIRST QUESTION - My friend would like to apply for UI for the period beginning March 1, 2009. How should she characterize the nature of her separation? It wasn't a voluntary quit. It wasn't a layoff for lack of work. It was a discharge, but certainly (from her perspective) not for cause, and what's more, the very "discharge" record is to be expunged. What box does she check on the UI form? SECOND QUESTION (and I hope you're still awake) - Back in March 2008, months before the June suspension, my friend's full-time hours were severely cut and she filed for UI underemployment. Then, as noted above, she was suspended in June. Bizarrely, the Employer restored her full-time hours to her when it paid her during her disciplinary suspension. (Go figure.) My friend dutifully reported all this to MARVIN. MUIA later issued, on the same day, two apparently conflicting determinations. One ruled her ineligible due to misconduct, and the other ruled her ineligible because her suspension was fully paid. My friend was late in filing for a redetermination, so that's where the matter stood. She is clearly not entitled to UI for the period of her paid suspension from June to October 2008, nor is she entitled to UI for the period covered by her backpay award (October 2008 - March 1, 2009). However, it would seem that she is entitled to UI for the period beginning March 1, 2009. Will her legitimate effort to file now for the period beginning March 1, 2009, be clouded by this earlier complicated pre-history? In particular, is she going to have to face questions about disqualifying misconduct again? If so, how can she best navigate through it, especially in view of the fact that the disciplines in question are to be expunged? THIRD QUESTION (and if you're still reading, you have clearly now entered sainthood) - Does the money my friend was paid during her suspension qualify for any earnings rework requirement that may be imposed due to the earlier "misconduct" determination?

Bless you, sir, and thank you.

Linda

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Linda, Your analysis looks good to me. In my opinion your friend should without delay file for benefits. She should tell indicate on the application that she was discharged but was found by the NLRB not to have committed misconduct and paid back pay for the time she was off until her case was settled. She should add a footnote explaining briefly that her dismissal was over-ruled by the NLRB and expunged from her record. Now, it's important to note that the UIA is not necessarily bound by NLRB unfair labor practice rulings. After your friend files the UIA will send a questionnaire to the employer asking about the termination. The employer should provide a truthful explanation and indicate that the dismissal was expunged and should not be considered misconduct. However, if the employer tells the UIA that your friend was discharged and explains the circumstances of the dismissal, the UIA conceivably might try to make an independent judgment on whether the alleged action by your friend constituted misconduce under the unemployment statute. [This is unlikely and would be a mistake in my opinion.]

In view of the fact that your friend's case is not a routine case, she or he might be well advised to go to a "Problem Resolution Office" and talk face-to-face with a human being.

Several court decisions have ruled that back pay awards by the NLRB, by arbitrators and by the EEOC are considered remuneration under the unemployment compensation statute. Therefore, the back pay should, in my opinion, be counted toward any earnings rework requirement in the agency's previous determination or re-determination, but I'm not positive about that. That's another reason to go to a PRO and hope to get somebody who knows the answer. Here's a link to information on PRO's.

Good luck!

http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--78925--,

Shavon 3 years ago

I was denied because it stated the claimant couldn’t establish a benefit year (refer to the reference code) 1, 12:

1:claim denied due to insufficient base period wages.

12: benefits for this benefit year have been redetermined.

I am unemployed due to lack of work. Total wages were 3450.00 and then it states benefit year wages used to calculate benefits 1150.00

Question is should I file the appeal, or will it be wasteful time on my part??? Thank in advance for attention.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The process used by the UIA for determining how much you must earn in order to qualify for benefits is quite complicated. It is explained on page six of the "green booklet" entitled "Unemployment Benefits in Michigan." The explanation covers 4 methods to qualify for benefits.

The Agency's denial of your benefits is probably correct. However, appealing doesn't cost anything. An appeal would bring about a review of the Agency's redetermination in your case. Sorry I'm not able to provide you with a more definite answer.

Laura2009 3 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I live in KY. I had my unemployment appeal hearing and was denied benefits. I am getting ready to submit my information to re-appeal the referee's decision.

Overview of my claim: Laid off in August 2008 and began drawing unemployment benefits. Went to work in November 2008 at a new quick serve restaurant that opened, just to get back to work and help bring home some money.

After working at the restaurant for a few days, I experienced intense back and hip pain from a previous injury, not work related. Informed 3 managers of my problem. After working for one week, had to see my doctor. Doctor advised that I would not be able to continue this type of work without accommodation, i.e., stool to sit on. I was basically working as a cashier, running food, stocking supplies.

Informed employer I would have to take additional time off for physical therapy. I offered a doctor's statement, but they said it would not be necessary. They would have to go ahead and replace me immediately.

Appeal referee misconstrued a lot of information I provided; did not take into consideration the "evidence of material" I submitted prior to my appeal hearing. I have obtained a copy of the recorded hearing. Referee is obviously one-sided.

My question is that when I appeal the second time, how should I approach with my information. I have never been through this process and will not hire an attorney unless I absolutely have to. I don't have the money, being unemployed. The State owes me about $4700 in back pay. Please help! Thank you!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I live in Michigan and my unemployment comp experience is there. If you were in Michigan I would advise you to write a clear, concise appeal letter referencing any portions of the transcript with which you disagree (e.g. page 3, line 4-6) and explaining why you disagree and attach any relevant documents to the appeal letter. Finally, most lawyers know little about unemployment compensation law. If you do decide to get a lawyer, make sure you get one that specializes in unemployment benefit law. Otherwise, in my opinion you would be throwing your money away. There aren't many unemployment compensation lawyers because there isn't enough money involved to make it worth their while. In Michigan, some lawyers will write a UC appeal on a contingency basis, i.e., they charge a percentage fee only if you win your case.

Jamie 3 years ago

I have a side business and am possibly loosing my 9-5 job. Is it still possible for me to get unemployment compensation?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

That will depend on how much you earn from your side business. In order to qualify for unemployment benefits you would be required to report to the Agency every other week and report any earnings and certify that you are unemployed, available for work and seeking work.

Jamie 3 years ago

Thanks for your quick reply!!!

The money I make from the business pretty much just goes back into the business. I don't collect an hourly wage from it.

Would it be better to gift my side business to a family member?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I'm not in a position to answer that question. Your side business could put a little cloud over your eligibility for UC. One other suggestion, if you are laid off and apply for UC read all the material carefully and comply with all the procedures and regulations. There are many traps which disqualify unwary or careless applicants for benefits. The Agency administers the regulations very strictly. Read the GREEN BOOK carefully and follow the instructions.

jake 3 years ago

I have worked for a construction company for the last year, jus recently the banks will not loan out money to contractors so our work is on hold.i have got paid cash the whole year but when tax season comes i will file a 1099 and pay back everything i owe. Am I eligable to receive unemployment?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

It sounds to me like who ever you worked for may not have paid unemployment compensation taxes on your earnings. This is likely to create a problem with respect to your eligibility. It could also create a problem for your employer if he did not pay Social Security and unemployment compensation taxes.

If your employer did not report earnings and pay taxes on them the Unemployment Agency will not have a record of your earnings on which to determine your eligibility.

Jenny 3 years ago

My boyfriend (Mark)'s claim for benefits was just denied for misconduct. His employer used an automatic points system which did not take reasons for absences or tardiness into consideration; it also included forgetting to punch in or out as a violation.

His violations were for a few absences due to illness (abscessed tooth, he did get doctor's statements in order to remove the points, but they were not all removed) and injury (he had to leave the day after an on the job injury because of the pain); and also due to forgetting to punch in and out (which happened because he would arrive early to set up his area and see what was going on for the day, and would stay late when extra help was needed and he is forgetful). On the day he received his sixth point and automatic termination, our car battery had died. He tried to call, but they have no one in the office until later in the morning. When he had found a ride and was able to get someone on the phone (an hour and a half after work had started), he was told not to bother coming in because the tardiness caused another point and he was fired. His manager also told him to call back in the future and he would try to rehire him because he was considered a good, hard-working employee and he wished he didn't have to let Mark go.

Does this sound like grounds for misconduct? I wrote his request for a redetermination today, explaining this in detail. We can get doctors' statements to back this up, as well as statements from employees about Mark coming in early and staying late. Do you think we have a good chance if the redetermination is denied and we have to appeal? Would statements from coworkers be accepted in an appeal?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Automatic point systems for attendance are not a good basis for establishing misconduct because they don't take into account valid reasons for absence. Absence, per se, is not misconduct. Illness, on-the-job injuries should not be counted against your husband. Car trouble should not either unless it happens several times in which case it would become suspect. Repeated absences without good reasons are required to establish misconduct. One caution, however, if there are a lot of absences some court decisions shift the burden of proof from the employer to the claimant. That is, the claimant must prove that he was not guilty of misconduct by virtue of excessive absences and/or tardinesses without valid excuses.

Yes, your husband should have a good chance in an appeal before an administrative law judge. Statements from co-workers would be considered hearsay and not admitted as evidence in support of your husband's case at the hearing. For them to count the co-worker(s) would have to testify in person at the hearing. Doctors' statements are an exception to the hearsay exclusion. They should be accepted as exhibits supporting your husband's case. Good luck!

Note: My comments are based on my experience in Michigan. They may or may not apply in other states. The laws are similar from state to state, but there are significant differences. Also, even in Michigan attendance point systems are in a bit of a "gray area." All point systems are not the same. Some of them do take into account the reasons for absence and do not award points when there is a reasonable excuse. The worst ones are "automatic" point systems. My personal opinion is that point systems are a poor way to handle attendance issues. Each time an employee is absent or late, he should be given the opportunity to explain why he was late or absent, and only absences for which there is no reasonable excuse should be counted against him. And good cause for dismissal exists only after repeated, frequent absences without reasonable cause and repeated warnings for them. The courts have not clearly ruled point systems out as a basis for establishing misconduct. Their validity may depend on the specifics of the system and whether it is applied reasonably in the opinion of the judge.

Jenny 3 years ago

Thank you, I appreciate your advice. Hopefully if we have to appeal, we can bring the witnesses in to testify.

Thanks again!

Clif 3 years ago

I was fired for theft and ordered restitution. After paying my restitution, am I still eligible for benefits? I was not prosecuted.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

On page 11 of the green book "Unemployment Benefits in Michigan" you will find the following:

"If you are disqualified for any of these reasons (one of which is theft), you will be required to serve a 26-week requalification period before you can receive benefits. You will also lose up to 13 weeks of benefits and you will not be entitled to any benefits based on work for the employer involved in that disqualification."

Laurette 3 years ago

Hi, I looked through all of the positngs, but saw nothing like my situation. My bank account was cleaned out today ($40) due to a judgement by the court saying I owed a particular amount to a credit card company. This is true, but they wanted $100 a month and I could only afford $20 (and I really couldn't even afford that). I have been paying the $20, but they told me it was not "an agreed upon amount". Well, they refuse to close the account, so I owe more than that in late charges alone per month. My question is can my unemployment check be garnished by law? And if so, isn't there some kind of percentage only allowed? Because I never though of applying for underemployment last year when I made almost half of what I made every year for the last 10 years, the amount I'm approved for is very minimal (about $100 per week) since last year was so poor. Are you able to help with this question? As it is now, I have a check for $30 that has not cleared yet, so there was really only about $10 in the account, Of course now I'm waiting for that check to post and be charged $35 for an overdraft...Thanks so much, Laurette

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Unemployment compensation is not subject to garnishment in Michigan. To avoid complications it might be a good idea to deposit your unemployment compensation benefits in another bank account. Here's a link to the Michigan Legal Aid site on garnishments

http://www.legalaidwestmich.org/resource.2005-07-0

Good luck.

Mary Jo 3 years ago

Yes, I'm in the process of appealing my umemployment insurance claim. However, I'm outside of the guidelines with respect to the 30-day rule to file an appeal. I received my original determination letter 1/27/09 and appealed effectively March 12, 2009. My question is, are there any exceptions available to me if I did file my appeal after the 30-day rule? Please advise

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The agency and judges are pretty strict about the 30-day time limit for appeals. Here's what the rule says:

R 421.270 Good cause for reconsideration and reopening.

Rule (270).(1) In determining if good cause exists under sections 32a, 33, and 34 of the act, after the 30-day protest or appeal period has expired, for reconsideration of any prior determination or redetermination or for reopining and review, good cause shall include, but not limited to, any of the following situations:

9a) if an interested party has newly discovered material facts which , through no fault of the party, were not available to the party at the time of the determination, redetermination, order or decision. However a request for reconsideration of a determination or redeterminatin or for reopening a decision or order made after the expiration of the statutory 30-day period solely for the purpose of evading or avoiding such statutory period is not for good cause.

(b) If the agency has additional or corrected information.

(c) If an administrative clerical error is dscovered in conection with a determination, redetermination, order, or decision.

(d) If an interested party has a legitimate inability to act sooner. [i.e., serious illness, death in the family or similar reasons]

(e) If an interested party fails to receive a reasonable and timely notice, order, or decision.

(f) If an interested party is prevented from acting sooner due to an untimely delivery of a protest, appeal or agency document by a business or governmental agancy entrusted with delivery of mail.

(g) If an interested party has been misled by incorrect informaton from the agency, the office of appeals, or the board of review.

(2) If, before the start of an ititial hearing before the office of appeals, the agency receives new, additional, or corrected information or discovers an administrative clerical error in the claim, the matter may be returned to the agency for reconsideration and redetermination.

Christine 3 years ago

Help! My employer (a car dealership) discharged me on 12/31/2008 due to lack of work, I collected 6 weeks of benefits, then received a letter stating that I was disqualified because I voluntarily quit. What? I have a separation letter stating that I was discharged due to lack of work. I was let go with several other employees. I provided this proof to UIA and was they still decided against me. The employer stated to them that I voluntarily quit because of a reduction in hours. I worked reduced hours for nearly a month then they let me go. It's not really a he said she said case because my separation letter states I was discharged due to lack of work even though there is a section for quit. They provided copies of my time card to UIA as proof that I worked reduced hours in the past and found that evidence enough to disqualify me inspite of my separation letter. I have filed in a timely fasion for a redetermination, but what are my chances. Its a shady car dealer what if they get lacky employees to testify against me. I was a closed door meeting between myself and two supervisors when I was let go and they are the ones who signed the separation letter stating I was being discharged due to lack of work. I really would appreciate any advice or opinion on my claim, as I have been without an income of any sort for 4 weeks now. I need something that could put my mind at ease.

Thanks so much,

Chrisine

Dearborn Heights, MI

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

It sounds to me as if you should be okay. If the redetermination goes against you, appeal and take your case to an administrative law judge hearning. And get an advocate to represent you at the hearing. I think you should be okay. If you think of it, please let us know how your situation develops. TNX.

Christine 3 years ago

Thanks, and I will let you know.

Pam 3 years ago

Hi Ralph, I was just recently laid off from a 16 year job. I have a few questions that I hope you can answer. 1st- I have been given a 7 month severence package paid over the 7 months (not a lump sum). Do I apply for unemployment when my severence runs out, or do I apply now? My thought is I apply after my severence runs out. 2nd-I am thinking about getting a part time job just to get some extra money while I am on severence, will that disqualify me from unemployment after my 7month severence runs out? and 3rd-I was thinking about going back to school with the "No worker left behind" act-doesn't that disqualify people from unemployment??

Sorry I just have been having these questions running through my head and I am sure others probably have also had the same questions.

Thanks for all you knowledge and sharing it!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

1. Depending on the amounts your severance payments will disqualify you. You should apply for benefits just before the payments stop.

2. You can earn as much as you can while you are receiving severance payments without affecting your eligibility for unemployment benefits.

3. There are procedures for applying for advance approval of school courses from the Unemployment Insurance Agency which allows you to go to school without losing your eligibility. You can probably find out about the procedures on the UIA website or by calling the agency. If I get a chance I'll look it up and post something here.

Jan 3 years ago

If you are currently receiving unemployment, working less than full time and reporting earnings to Marvin, but are thinking of looking for a higher paying position and then quitting your present job, how will that affect your unemployment benefit if you find another part time position?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I wasn't able to find a case or regulation covering this situation, but I don't believe quitting your current part time job to accept another higher-paying part time job would affect your eligibility. It would probably affect the amount of your benefit. Section 29(5) provides that an individual who leaves work to accept permanent full-time work with another employer and performs services for that employer is not disqualified.

I didn't find a comparable provision covering part-time work, but it would make sense, in my opinion, to apply the same treatment. Bottom line, I'm unable to provide a definitive answer to your question.

Pam 3 years ago

Thanks so much Ralph!! I will keep checking back to see if the other info is posted!!

john 3 years ago

i was fired from my job because i preformed a plumbing job when i wasnt employed by my company. i worked part of 2007 for the company and quite due to lack of work. never applied for unemployement. then the company rehired me in 2008. in 2008 my boss found out i did plumbing work during 2007 when i didnt work for him, but he fired me for it. now after collecting unemployment for 6 months they tell me im disqualified for deliberate disregard of the employer. how is that when i didnt work for the company at the time i did the job? also what do i need to do to not have to pay back over $7,00.00 in benefits when i dont have a job nor any money.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

You shouldn't have a problem if you can show that you weren't working for your former employer at the time you did the job and that you weren't covered by a "no compete" policy or agreement. It would be helpful if the person you did the job for was not a customer of your former employer. The burden is on your former employer to prove misconduct, i.e., wanton or willful disregard of your employher's interest.

Christine 3 years ago

Hi Mr. Deeds, I wrote you last week regarding the car dealership claiming that I voluntarily quit. Who has the burden of proof in this case. They state that I quit, I was let go due to lack of work. Does the UIA or Administrative Law judge have ways of knowing how many claims have been filed against this employer in close proximity to my claim, as it was somewhat of a blood bath, or is it up to me to investigate these things, if so is this public record, can I asked that this be looked at? It seems to me that they may be pulling this on most or all of us. What points should I stress, is my separation letter proof enough? By the time I get my redetermination, even if its in my favor I will have lost my car and perhaps home. Employees are penalized for fraud, are there any consequences or penalties for employer fraud?

Thanks again

Christine

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Hi Christine, The employer has the burden of proving that you quit either by a resignation signed by you or by testifying more convincingly than you before the judge. Car dealers are just about the worst employers in Michigan who try to beat their former employees out of eligibility for unemployment compensation. Most of the judges know this and scrutinize car dealer cases pretty carefully. The UIA has records of how many cases have been filed against a particular employer, but I don't think they would be available to you or to the judge for that matter. If the agency delays in issuing your redetermination Keep calling them and call your state representative in Lansing. If you could get him or her to make a phone call or write a letter it might speed things up.

I've never heard of an employer penalized for fraud involving a UC claim. To be fair fraud cases against claimants are not common either. However, plenty of employers are penalized for scams to avoid paying their UC taxes.

Good luck with your case. If you think of it, please let us know how your case turns out and whether my advice was any good. It would be interesting to know what your employer could say in an ALJ hearing about the separation letter indicating you were laid off.

Marie 3 years ago

My father has become dependant due to serious illness and I dont believe I qualify for an FMLA. If I needed to quit my job to take care of him would I qualify???? Please help

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The rule is that you are not eligible if you quit unless you quit for good cause ATTRIBUTABLE TO YOUR EMPLOYER. You may well have good reason to quit, but the reason is not attributable to your employer. There are exceptions, but I don't believe that any of them apply in your case.

Victoria - In Michigan 3 years ago

Ralph,

My husband got laid off from his full time employer and was told he can claim unelpmloyment. So he did and has to call MARVIN soon. I was wondering if he needs to claim his Army National Guard pay (he gets a small paycheck once a month from the reserves)?

Thank you.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Yes, he does if it is pay he earns by attending monthly meetings.

joe 3 years ago

I collect unemployment. I am attending school now full time.

joe 3 years ago

I apologize for the mistake posting. What chances are there the MI UIA will find out about someone collecting unemployment and going to school at the same time? If when that person calls marvin they do not answer the question correctly that they are attending school. Can the UIA find out? Even if the school is in another state?

Thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Joe, if you are in a UIA approved training program you can be eligible for benefits. You may want to investigate this by calling 1-866-500-9917. If you are enrolled in a UIA-approved program you are not required to report by calling MARVIN. Otherwise the fact that you are a full-time student may affect your eligibility. Some court cases have ruled in favor of claimants who are full time students so long as they are available and seeking work and are willing and able to adjust their course schedule in order to accept an offer of employment. If the UIA finds out that your reports to MARVIN are not accurate you may be subject to disqualification and required to repay any benefits. And you are found to have committed fraud you may be required to repay 3x the any benefits you have received. (I am out of state for a family reunion and don't have access to my UC cases and other information. However, I believe the above information is correct.)

Hannah 3 years ago

Hi Mr. Deeds, I am currently in the middle of a re-determination. I was recently let go from my part-time job. I started the job while 7 months pregnant in August 2008. I explained to them that I was to take only 8 weeks maternity leave. My last day before I went on maternity leave was September 1, 2008. During my maternity leave I stayed in-touch with my employer to ensure a position upon my return. I needed to go back to work in late November (end of maternity leave) but my boss was too busy to talk with me about my returning to work. In late November I ran into her in a parking lot and she appologized for not keeping in-touch and that things have been crazy at work. she also said that she was flying to see her sister that night and that she would be gone on vacation for the next few weeks. I told her to call me as soon as she returned for I needed to start working. She got back from vacation on November 30th and called me on December 1st. She wanted to come to my home later in the week to discuss my schedule. She came to my home at the end of that week and she told me she wanted me to start working the next week. I was glad to finally start working for I was unable to retutn before that date because she was away on vacation and she needed to be there with me to continue training me. I told her that I would be collecting partial benefits from unemployment as I needed more than 24 hours a week (maximum amount of hours job would allow). She was fine with that and I continued to collect partial benefits while looking for a second job. I opened up my claim with unemployment on December 7th although I did not return to work until the next week. I thought everything was going well at work although my boss displayed a hostile temper during the end. I was trying my hardest to make everything work out with my job for I needed it with a new family. Only 4 weks after returning to work she fired me and gave me no reason other than I was not the right person for the company. I uptated my termination with unemployment and explained that I was fired without a reason. My previous employer fought the claim stating many reasons that were untrue. I was found eligible due lack of evidence and me not showing misconduct at work. However, I was then disqualified because I opened my claim before I started back to work. Unemployment assumed I was not physically able or available for work due to my maternity leave. I have an overpayment of over 1,000.00 I was actually available for work but was not able to return because my boss was away on vacation. I am fighting this because I need to pay my bills and I have not been able to find another job. I know my previous employer will say anything to disqualify me from unemployment for they do not want to pay higher unemployment insurance. Do I stand a chance in having this disqualification reversed and becoming eligible again? Any thoughts you have will help...thank you in advance.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Sounds to me that you should be eligible although it's hard to tell without seeing the case record. If you don't get a favorable redetermination request a hearing before an administrative law judge. They frequently reverse UIA redeterminations.

Damian 3 years ago

Hi Mr. Deeds, Last year i qiut my job because when i was hired for shipping and receiving afternoons i had to be trained on mornings which i understood was going to be for 2 weeks, but what happen is that i end up being on mornings for 4 weeks and then working a split shift which put alot of pressure on me a week later back to mornings then 2 weeks later afternoons, after all of that they now placed me on security, walking the premises controling front gate functions ect, all in thye same of doing what i was hired for, never really took my 30min lunch because i had to watch the gate or ID guests that were coming to vist for various reasons,on top of all that they added a gym to the place and now had mae me pretty much a gym attendant, when i mention a raise that was really out of the question and the reason i quit was that i left a few times which should have been my 30min lunch time to buy a car, i got written up because I couldn't be found to let people in the gym. What should i do? i know they are going to do everything in their power not to give me benefits and it's very hard to find a job and I'm a veteren I'm running out of options.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Your case is in a gray area. The law is not on your side. It presumes that a reasonable person will find another job before quitting the one he has unless there is "good cause attributable to the employer" and unless the claimant complained and gave the employer a chance to correct the problem. I don't blame you for quitting after being screwed around the way you describe. However, I think you will have a hard time winning your case. The burden is on you to convince the judge that your employer treated you in a way that would cause a reasonable person to quit. Changing a job or shift assignment is not ordinarily considered good cause. Not allowing you to take your lunch hour might be. The UC law does not treat veterans any differently from anyone else.

Tom 3 years ago

My father in law was laid off about 2 months ago. 4 Weeks later they took away his medical benefits. They just called him to return to work but said he'll only get paid 70% of his wages and he will not get his insurance back. This seems like a poly to get him to quit or decline to return thus giving the employer the right to refuse enmployment benefits. Shouldn't they have to give him what he had in terms of benefits before he was originally laid off? They're also not sure how long they'll need him. Thank you for your time.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

A reduction in pay of 30% and cancellation of health care insurance would be good cause for quitting attributable to the employer. Your father-in-law should be eligible for benefits if he resigns rather than returns to work assuming there isn't anything else involved in his situaton. [I hesitate to make a definite prediction about eligibility without having all the facts from the claimant and the employer.]

Robert 3 years ago

I received my Michigan elementary teacher certification in 2003. I have been trying for a full-time job ever since, first in the Warren area and then in the Kalamazoo area over the last 2-1/2 years. I have done quite a bit of substituting in Warren and Kalamazoo but have not yet been able to land a full-time position. I have been working part-time at the YMCA over the last two years. Does having a part-time job make me ineligible for unemplyment insurance?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Having a part-time job doesn't necessarily make you ineligible. This would depend on how much you earn. If you receive benefits you are obligated to report your earnings every other week for each week. Your earnings could make you ineligible or reduce the amount of your benefit.

Angela 3 years ago

I have just completed a two-week training program to become a nurse assistant. This is a high-demand field and I'll be better able to find a decent job. A representative for unemployment benefits says that me stating that I have began school/training during the period that I am certifying for, will disqualify me from receiving a benefit check. What should I do?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Angela, I recommend that if your benefits are denied you should request a redetermination on the basis that you are available and seeking work and that you will adjust your training schedule in the event you receive an offer of a job.

Kevin 3 years ago

Hi Ralph,

Some time ago, I posted on this site in which you then made the following response.

Kevin says:5 months ago

Hi Ralph,

I like to ask for your advice. I was fired for tardiness in August and was denied unemployment. The determination wrote "You were fired for repeated lateness after being warned in writing. You knew your job was in jeopardy. You state you needed to visit your father whose hospitalized while on way to work. You felt this was more important. There is no evidence to show you made employer aware of situation. to perhaps work this out. in order to protect your job. This will be part of hearing."

In my defense, the written warning was in January. I never received any type of writtern or verbal warning during the few months prior to my termination. I felt that I should not be held at fault for tardiness caused by circumstances beyond my control, as my father was very sick in the hospital and I do have medical records. Although it may have been in the best interest of my employer to fire me, I believe my actions do not rise to the level of misconduct. Ralph, can you give me any advice on this? My hearing will be next week.

Ralph Deeds says:5 months ago

I agree that you should be eligible for Unemployment Compensation. Whether or not the judge will agree is hard to say. It will be helpful to bring information concerning your father's illness. Be prepared for the judge asking you why you were not able to visity your father after you completed your work day. The result may depend on how many times you were late and how late you were. It's also relevant whether your supervisor said anything to you on the occasions when you were late. If he didn't you would have an argument that your employer condoned your tardinesses, that is led you to believe that it was okay for you to be late when you had to visit your father in the hospital. It will be to your advantage to have an advocate represent you. And be sure and get to the hearing on time (preferably early) because being late for the hearing definitely would hurt your case. Good luck.

After the hearings, there were 2 (the judge decided to adjourn), I received the judges decision sustaining the initial determination of the unemployment office and ruled against me. I was crushed. It was such a long process hoping and waiting and nothing came out of it. With the little hope I had left, and I do mean little, I decided to appeal the judges decision to the appeal board. I wrote a statement explaining why I believe my actions do not constitute misconduct. I finally received their decision and guess what? They reversed the judges decision and ruled in my favor based on the concept of 'condonation' that you had mentioned! They did not even have to consider the reason why I was late to work. I couldn't believe it. I just wanted to let you know and to all of those people out there who are experiencing what I had to go through, to never give up if you believe that you were fired unjustly. My only problem now is, there were a stretch of time about 6-8 weeks when I did not claim my weekly benefits. We do it online in my state. I do not know the importance of claiming every week at that time. What will happen to those weeks I did not claim? Thanks!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Kevin, Thank you very much for the above comment. I'm very happy about the final result. You made my day! I hope you find a good job soon if you haven't already. Good luck and thanks again!

You will not be eligible for benefits for any week for which you didn't call MARVIN to certify that you were unemployed and seeking employment. You may be eligible for additional weeks up to the maximum going forward if you are still unemployed without a deduction for the weeks for which you didn't certify counting toward the maximum. I should have reminded you to keep calling MARVIN to certify every two weeks until your case was finally settled. That advice does appear above on my website, as I recall.

Kevin 3 years ago

Thanks for the quick response Ralph. I have found a temporary job that lasts until the end of June. My benefit year ends in September. I am assuming I can still claim for benefits in July and August, given that I am unemployed during that time. But if I have not reached my maximum when my benefit year ends, does that mean the weeks that I did not certify will goto waste?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

I'm not positive how that works. You would have nothing to lose by applying. If I have time I'll try to get you a better answer.

Sophia 3 years ago

Dear Mr. Deeds,

I came across your hub on accident. It seems that you have a lot of knowledge in this area. I read other peoples comments and learned a lot more about unemployment than I would have on their web page.

I do have a few questions for you. I was disqualified from unemployment and sent in my response for a redetermination. I was fired w/o warning and w/o reason. My employer told unemployment that I was fired for misconduct and that I was unable to work the hours that she gave me. I have never shown misconduct in any work environment and I worked all of my scheduled shifts. It has been 3 months and my position has not been filled by another person. Also, the business only has 3 employees.

Does unemployment make a decision based upon he said she said or do they need actual written or documented evidence?

Do they sometimes make a decision based on the more convincing party with no evidence at all?

It has been over a month and still no reply from unemployment. Do re-determinations usually take this long?

Sorry for all of the questions. I do appreciate any advice you may have.

Sincerely, Sophia

Chelsea 3 years ago

Hi Ralph, I have been on unemployment since April of last year--I have been extended so far thru June of this year. My question is that when I called Marvin today it said that my benefit year has ended, am I suppose to recertify to get the remaining weeks? Thanks, Chelsea

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Chelsea, I'm sorry I don't have an answer for you. I suggest you call the agency or go to one of the Problem Resolution Offices where you can speak face-to-face with a human. Here are the PRO locations:

PRO Locations:

Detroit (Temporary) - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-500, Detroit, MI 48202

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

Grand Rapids - 3391A Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

Livonia - 33523 W. 8 Mile Rd., Livonia, MI 48152

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

If you need help and you are an unemployed worker or employer customer with questions, please call one of our toll-free hotlines:

Claim Inquiry Line for unemployed workers, 1-866-500-0017, 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. (temporary extended hours) Eastern time weekdays.Employer Customer Relations hotline, 1-800-638-3994, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. weekdays

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Sophia, The unemployment agency makes its determinations and redeterminations based on the statements and evidence sent them or given them over the phone by claimants and employers. They are very busy right now and they do the best they can. However, mistakes are not uncommon.

From what you said and the fact that you were not replaced by your employer it appears to me that your dismissal may have actually been a cost-reduction move (i.e., a layoff) by your employer disguised as misconduct to prevent you from qualifying for benefits. I encourage you to pursue your case with the agency and if your redetermination is unfavorable you should request an in person hearing before an administrative law judge. In the hearing the burden will be on the employer to prove disqualifying misconduct. The controlling court case defines misconduct as "wanton or willfull disregard of the employer's interest." Minor transgressions do not constitute misconduct unless they are repeated after warnings, e.g., repeated tardiness or absence without reasonable cause after warnings are condiered misconduct.

In the meantime, remember to keep calling MARVIN on schedule until your case is settled. You will not be eligible for any weeks for which you fail to call and certify. Good luck!  

Sophia 3 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

Thank you for your timely response and I appreciate your help.

Best regards, Sophia

Ann 3 years ago

Dear Ralph,I have worked for this company in Michigan for 2 And a half years.About 2 months they laid off 72 workers.And we work 2 weeks off a week,which Iget benefits my question is tis Recently we had a meeting and their offering Voluntary Leaves of Absense,Voluntary Vacation Leave up to 12 weeks,and last but not least Voluntary Resignation.Which I have been considering.If i decided to Voluntary Resign wouldn't disqualify me for benefits,even though they say they won't contest it to the UIA? They gave about 13 pages to sign for the resignation.In the meeting they also said they need to cut the workforce by another 98 Employees,I just don't want screw myself out of benefits. Plaes Help

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Eligibility for unemployment benefits is decided by the Unemployment Insurance Agency. You should not rely on you employer's statements with regard to eligibility. The fact that your employer does not contest your eligibility does not mean that you will be eligible. "Voluntary" vacation or "voluntary" resignation would likely render you ineligible for unemployment benefits. Although your employer may say it wouldn't "contest" your eligibility, it is obligated to furnish information about your situation to the unemployment agency which will base its eligibility determination on that information and on the information you furnish on your application. In my opinion, without knowing all the facts, it is doubtful that you would be eligible for benefits.

Kelly in Michigan 3 years ago

Good Morning Mr. Deeds, I found your website last night after doing some extensive research. I'm so hoping that you can help me with a few questions that I have as I have gotten the run around over the phone with the UIA.

Last year I was working 2 jobs. One I had started in Feb at a Automotive Company, and worked there full time. The other one was a part time job that I worked at for like 1 day a week, but before the full time job was working there full time. I went to part time to take the full time job to recieve benefits and health insurance but continued to work at the part time job at night time. The end of November I quit the part time job as it was getting to be too much with both jobs. Then, the beggining of December I was laid off from my full time job because of lack of work. I received a few weeks severance and that was that. I filed for unemployment. They sent me a few fact finding sheets which I filled out and sent back. I then recieved my Monetary Determination form which said that I would be getting the $362 weekly amount for 26 weeks. Everything was fine and smooth or so I thought. My unemployment started the beginning of December. Well last Friday which was May 1st, received 3 letters in the mail. 2 of them were Notice of Restitution Due one is saying that I owe for repayment for over payments, and has the list of all payments that I received starting from Dec until the end of April. At the top says issues and section of Michigan Employment Security Act Involved also listed it has a credit to employer 20(a) and improper payments 62(a). Also, has listed that Claimant is disqualified from 11/29/08 until completetion of a re work of $4,344. Then it says that claimant must pay back $6,564. back under section 62(a)

The second letter has the same heading of Restitution Due, but on this letter is says that Misrepresentation, not intent. 62 (b) again the credit to employer and then improper payments. Basis for Determination it says based on determination issued on 4/29 it is found you were not entitiled to benefits from 11/30 through 4/18. Intentional misrepresentation is not found. Restitution is due under section 62. Below this it says claimant is not disqualified for benefits re: Misreprensentation, not intent. Then this time it says claimant must pay to the agency $125, which I gather is the amount that they added to benefits.

Finally the 3rd letter, This is headed a notice of Determination. Says See Repeater

It is found that you quit your job for good cause attributable to the employer. You are NOT disqualified for benefits under mes act sec 29 (1)(a). That is all the letter says.

So, I have called the hotline twice since Friday and have gotten the run around. Of course they say I can protest, but my questions are remaining un answered. One is yes I quit my job but that was because I was working full time at my other job and then got laid off! I'm so confused as to am I eligible? And do I have to pay the money back? And if so why?! As I was working full time. The lady at the agency said that I need to do the re work. Clearly I would be working but there are no jobs as well as a few weeks before I got laid off I found that I was pregnant (which does not pertain to the lay off). I'm now 7 months pregnant. No one will give me a job!

I'm so helplessly confused, and feel in order to understand all this mumbo jumbo I should have a Phd or something!! :)

My plan is to clearly protest this, and I just wonder if you can give me some sort of insight to all of this. I will continue to call Marvin and actually today is my day to call. Also, was thinking of going to the office that you suggested for some other people, to have human to human conversation.

Sorry this is so utterly long, just trying to get the details to you, I hope that you can help me a little bit.

Does any of this make sense? Was this a clerical error? I do not believe it is one on my part and feel that I have qualified for all the eligibility requirements.

Thank you so so much for your time. I would really appreciate any help or advice that you can offer.

Kelly

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

It sounds to me as if you are eligible, based on the third letter finding that you had good cause for quitting your part-time job. You should be able to ignore the first two letters. I don't know why you would need to protest that determination. To make sure you could go to the nearest Problem Resolution Office and speak face-to-face with an agency representative. You should take all the paper work you have received to date. And, very important--Keep Calling Marvin until your case is resolved. And if you do receive an adverse determination or redetermination be sure to protest within the 30-day time limit. Good luck. Here's a link to the Problem Resolution Office website--http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--78925--,

dennis 3 years ago

I am from massachussettes.this is very important to me and i am seekin advice. I was teminated for breach of confidense. My employers claims that I knew of another employee's intent to steal a laptop and failed to notify my supervisors. This lead them to terminate me based on that. I filed for unemployement and was disqualified based on that. I am appealing now. My argument is that whatever my employers claim is not entirely true. I was unaware of this employees intent, however i was working the day he comited the act of theft. I left early that day. The next day i learned that he was arrested for stealing. I was question three days later for theft. I was asked a series of questions about items going missing which i denied. I told them only of my knowledge that the employee was caught for trying to steal a laptop and I had my suspicions about it. They're claiming that i submitted a signed written statement which admits my knowledge of the whole event before it was going to happen. That is a lie. I asked for a copy of this written statement for a week and i never got it. Basically i want to know if its common to have the referee hear my side of he story and allow me to cross examine my employer with falsafied facts that were submitted which eventually led to my termination.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

My experience is solely in Michigan. In Michigan the referees usually do a good job of bringing out both sides of the case. And in Michigan you would have the right to cross-examine employer witness(es). Hearsay evidence is not admissible. You should mention the fact that your request for a copy of your written statement was refused by your employer. Did you write the statement or was it written by your employer. Under Michigan law, based on the facts you have stated, I believe you would be eligible. The Michigan standard for misconduct is "wanton or wilful disregard of your employer's interest."

Bill Nelson 3 years ago

Dear Mr. Deeds:

What good fortune that I came upon your incredibly informative and interesting site!

If you’ll permit it, I have a three questions related to a case pending appeal before the MES Board of Review very soon.

The salient background information is that the Employer claimed that the Employee was terminated for misconduct and the Unemployment Agency Examiner concurred and benefits were denied.

Upon our appeal, the ALJ reversed the decision and deemed the Claimant eligible for benefits.

The Employer requested a re-hearing of the ALJ and was denied. He then appealed to the Board of Review. And that brings us to today and my questions.

I suspect that it is most prudent to request an oral hearing, rather than written, so that one’s case can best be presented. Do you agree?

I’ve done substantial research on-line, however, I can’t seem to find anything that details the specific process that will take place at the review. Will there be a situation similar to that before the ALJ wherein each party will be present, provide supporting documentation and witnesses, and have an opportunity for direct and cross-examination of witnesses? Or is it simply a situation whereby the Claimant and Employer are present to answer questions that Board members have as a result of reviewing the transcript of the ALJ hearing?

And finally, it’s my understanding that the Board may request evidence that was not presented at the ALJ hearing, however, will the Employer be able to present such evidence simply because he desires to do so? It’s a concern because, at the ALJ hearing, the Employer didn’t submit any supporting documentation as evidence, although he claimed to have ample amounts of it. He did submit it to the ALJ in the request for the re-hearing and, in denying the request, the Judge indicated that much of the information submitted with the re-hearing request could have been presented at the original hearing, but was not.

I sincerely appreciate your time, consideration, and wisdom in this matter, Mr. Deeds.

Thank you,

Bill Nelson

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

The Board of Review grants very few requests for oral argument. More than 95 percent of all cases are decided by the Board of Review based on the ALJ's decision, the typed transcript of the recording from the ALJ hearing, and any exhibits admitted at the ALJ hearing. Oral arguments are reserved mainly for unique issues or cases involving large numbers of employees. Therefore, I would be very surprised if the B.O.R. granted a request from the employer or from the claimant for an oral argument.

However, it can be helpful to file a request for an oral argument along with a statement supporting your case in support of the correctness of the ALJ's decision in your favor and contesting the employer's testimony or reasoning at the ALJ hearing. Making a request for an oral argument presents an opportunity to make a written argument with references to evidence in the transcript of the ALJ hearing. You should include the page and line number from the transcript and perhaps quote the passage you wish to call the Board of Review's attention to. Submitting a request for oral argument or written statement is not necessary. The Board usually does not reverse ALJ decisions. [However, some ALJs have a higher batting average with the Board of Review than others.]

My recollection is that the B.O.R. will not allow or consider additional evidence that was not presented at the ALJ hearing.

Good luck! If you think of it please let us know the outcome of the case.

Bill Nelson 3 years ago

As I suspected, you've been extremely helpful...!!

We'll do exactly as you suggest. And I'll certainly make a point to let you know how we fare.

Thank you so much for your time, Mr. Deeds, and for your incredibly speedy reply..!!

Sincerely,

Bill Nelson

Tiffany 3 years ago

I have my Hearing towmmorow and I am very nervous. I have never been to court or in a court room for that matter. I was terminated from my job back in November, Filed for Unemployment in January and was finnaly approved in March. The employer protested and I was given a notice stating that they provided no new information and that the decision was affirmed. About a week ago I recieved a notice of a hearing. Redetermination for Section 29 (1) (B). I was terminated for Tardeness , I didnt have a car for most of the time I worked there and relied on other people for rides and when I did have a car there was lots or problems, But i always called and let other employess know. I was also never discliped in any way about this issue. I was also fired for faliure to me expectations and they also said I lied on my application, I cannot think of anything I lied about. I do have an advocacy though. Will I know the judges decision towmmorow or will it come after?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

If you are in Michigan you will not get the judge's decision at the hearing. Usually written decisions are mailed within a week. Sometimes you can guess the outcome from the judge's questions and reactions to the employer's and your testimony at the hearing. If you were not disciplined or warned about tardiness you have an argument that your tardiness was "condoned" by your employer. "Failure to meet expectations" is not misconduct. Good luck!

dennis 3 years ago

Hi Ralph, im this is dennis again. yes, I wrote the statement, and I did in fact call my employer and asked for a copy three days ago. i left a voicmail. And since then I have never recieved a reply. I also have an audio recording of an employee accounts that night could better case. He states that he seen the whole incident and i notice that i left early and he was the one who told managers what was going on. In this fasle written statement it stated that I am the reason why a laptop was stolen becuase seeing the employee with a laptop was a sign that i should have told someone. But i left early that day. But in the audio recording the employee says that they had eyes on the theif the entire night and yet a laptop disappeared. Can i submit this as evidence or will it be hearsay. I know that audio recordings are illegal in some states including mass but this could really help my case.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

It would be better if you could get the other employee to come to the referee hearing and testify as a witness. However, he may be reluctant to do that for fear of retaliation by the employer. I'm not sure what the rule about tape recorded evidence is in Massachusetts . It probably wouldn't be admissible because the employer would not have an opportunity to cross-examine him. Your employer erred in refusing to give you a copy of the statemen you signed. That's worth mentioning at the referee hearing. The referee has a duty to see that you get a fair hearing.

dennis 3 years ago

I cant say for sure how it went. it seemed to go 50/50. I raised a lot of questions to my employer. He raised only one to me. One question I realized now that I failed to mention is "What was the employee arrested for? And what was he charged with?" I learned that the employee accused of stealing was charged with an open warrent and not for theft. But I did metion that to the referee. However he still allowed my employer to read outloud a written statement. I assured the employer that none of it was true and said that my employer refused to send me a copy after I asked him for it. The examiner asked my employer if this is true and my employer said yes it is. And when asked why, my employer said that he faxed it and he has a copy of the written statement and does not know why I haven't recieved one.The examiner asked if my employer could make a copy and email it, my employer said not at the moment but if you give me 10 to 15 min he would. The examiner said not to worry about it. It was funny because I spoke clearly and made no errors while on the other hand my employer retracted statements, was unsure of himself, and had no valid evidence but claims to have a written statement which is the basis of my termination. He still however could not prove his case without this written statement, can he? This is what bothers me. I would not want someone to allow false evidence into account if he cannot prove that such exists. But what ever the outcome, Im still glad I made my manager look like a fool with that question. Thank you for your Ralph. I wish audio recordings were admissable as evidence because it will prove my case a whole lot easier. I think I mad my employer nervous because I asked if I can use an audio recording with his permission and he said no. I also think the employee informed the employee that i have a recordings of him. I know its wrong and illegal in some states, however letting pple know that i have them recorded can scare them sensless. In fact i was questioned by the examiner's office of how I came about these recordings and I told them that my cellphone automically records conversation and I believed who ever I talked to mentioned that to the examiner. Because at one time or another he would ask me to so speak louder because he there was an echo. My sister picked up the other line once or twice, so when she hanged it up they would say now i can here you better. but wasnt recording at the time. this was a land line and i can only record my cellular calls.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Please let us know how the referee's decision turns out.

Randy 3 years ago

Hi Ralph: I had two jobs. One full time (4 yrs) that paid $36,000 last year & a part time (2 yrs) for 5 hours a week - I made $2000 last year. Fired from FT job and awarded benefits. They reduced my hours at PT job to 6 every two weeks at 2 hrs each time. It wasn't worth the gas to drive there, so I quit. They denied me under 29 (1) A, and I also lost redetermination. I will appeal to the ALJ. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

It appears to me that you should not have been found ineligible under 29(1)(a) because the reduction in your hours and earnings constituted good cause attributable to your employer for resigning. The cost of commuting for 2 hours work also is a factor in your favor which should be emphasized to the administrative law judge. You could offer testimony on the number of miles from your home to work and the cost of gasoline and wear and tear on your car. (The "standard mileage rate" allowed by the IRS for business use of a personal car was 58.5 cents per mile June-December last year. The current rate is 50 cents per mile.)

So, you need to make two points at the hearing: 1. The reduction in your hours and earnings and 2. The cost of driving to work for a 2-hour, part-time job. These reasons are sufficient to cause a reasonable person to quit. Get to the hearing on time! Get an advocate from the list provided by the unemployment agency. And keep calling MARVIN to certify until your case is settled.

If you think of it please let us know the results of your hearing.

Good luck!

Linda 3 years ago

I was terminated while on medical leave for a back injury (no comp although it was caused by my job). The employer is out of state-I had worked for them for 16yrs as a truck driver-told me I would be terminated when my short-term disability ran out. I was unable to go back to work at that time and am still not able to resume my previous employment-will never be able to drive a truck again. They refused to give me a letter of termination although I attempted to get one. Seven months after termination, I was unofficially 'released' by my doctors as I no longer had insurance coverage-couldnt afford COBRA any longer. Dr said I could probably work for short periods of time in a sitting position, like an office job. I filed for SSDI and unemployment. I then found out that under a supreme court ruling, if I was able to do any gainful work under ADA with reasonable accomodation, I was also eligible for unemployment. I filed in December after discussing this with them. In January, I was awarded SSDI and turned down for unemployment -the employer said I was terminated for 'poor attendance'.

I appealed the denial-barely in time as the paperwork never made the 50 mile trip by postal mail for three weeks. I faxed the entire medical record and statements of my current capabilities to the UI offices and followed it up with regular mail. Because it was never dealt with in the UI offices, I went to the Problem Resolution Center 50 miles away to solve the situation. I was given another denial-this time, the employer said I did not return to work after my medical leave-I was not released to work for seven months after termination! I also presented documents showing that the employer had no available job openings in Michigan and all listed anywhere else required diesel certification or a degree-I have neither. Meanwhile, I was awarded SSDI (I am 62)-I told both UI and Soc Security about the other claim.

I filed another appeal, again with documentation from my doctors and proof of my inability to work at the date of termination-or even for months afterward. I hand-carried the paperwork back to the Problem Resolution Center as I was concerned it would not be dated properly. I asked the UI employee to please make sure the appeal was stamped with the current date to make sure it was shown as being submitted in a timely manner. I was given no receipt.

After six week, I called the information line to inquire and was told the issue hadnt been decided yet. After eleven weeks, I again called and was told I had been denied as not having sufficient reason for truning the paperwork in LATE! It has been falsely dated a week after I hand-delivered it! I was also told that two letters had been sent to me-neither of which has ever arrived. I called my congressman's office and had them intercede on my behalf. First, their office insisted I could not get Unemployment if I was getting SSDI. I quoted the Supreme Court case to them and was told to file for a hearing with the administrative law judge. I did as requested and immediately (within three days) got a hearing date in Detroit. The hearing paperwork does NOT state anywhere that I was denied for failing to turn in paperwork on time-instead, it lists the same arguments that I voluntarily quit and that I am incapable of working. My problem is this: It never should have gotten to this point. If the paperwork had ever been properly dealt with, and I was denied for cause, I would understand it. Instead, no one wants to deal with the Supreme Court case that says that the disability guidelines for SSDI and Unemployment have different standards and that the disabled can draw unemployment. Incidentally, I have been working as a free-lance writer and sold articles-I can provide documentation for this-but what income I make nowhere near replaces the amount of my unemployment benefit.

I will be applying for an advocate to help me wade through this mess on Tuesday. My major concern at this point is, this appears to be to be an act of discrimination by the State under ADA as they have flatly refused to deal with that aspect of the case. Should I also be asking for advocacy assistance from some office of the ADA?

Any ideas on how to proceed with this would be most welcome.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 years ago

Request a hearing before an ALG of the Agency's redetermination. Get an advocate to represent you at the hearing. I sounds to me like you are getting the run-around. Sometimes a inquiry from your state representative or senator can help put pressure on the agency. In the meantime keep calling MARVIN until all appeals are resolved. Good luck. If you think of it let us know how your ALJ hearning turns out.

Linda 3 years ago

Thanks, Mr Deeds!

I'll call to find an advocate in the morning. It finally struck me that both parties-the trucking company and the UIA-really dont want this can of worms opened because it will open the door for others if I win the appeal. In the case of the trucking company, these kinds of back injuries are the most common form of cumulative injury to long-term drivers. Loopholes in the Comp law preclude most drivers from getting Workers Comp for lumbar injuries, the carrier terminates them and they dont want to be in the position of paying unemployment on these claims (seen it happen before). I think the problem with UIA is they're simply overwhelmed and dont want to take the time to chase down the particulars in the Supreme Court ruling. I'll most certainly let you know what happens with the ALJ hearing. Thanks again!

concerned wife 2 years ago

My husband was recently terminated. The employer stated it was because he cost him $15,000 in damages due to an accident, but the employer made it seem like it was deliberate. BTW, isn't that what insurance is for? Is this a reason of denial for unemployment benefits in Michigan?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

In Michigan damage alone is not considered misconduct. The employer must show negligence or intent.

Brandon 2 years ago

I have just recently been issued a determination of eligibility after my employer appealed the process. They ruled against me in favor of the employer. The letter states that the employer who was charged for these benefits is entitled to a credit under Section 20(a) of the MES Act. It says no where on this letter that I have to pay it back, there are options of me paying the company but are not checked though, so can I assume that I do not have to pay back these benefits? I am having a hard time understanding this specific option that they have chosen for repayment of the benefits. If you could email me at bedellb@mfc-health.org , I would greatly appreciate this! Thank you.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I emailed you the following, but my email bounced--

If you are obligated to repay the benefits the Unemployment Agency will send you a bill. If you don't pay the bill they will take 20% of any unemployment benefits for which you may qualify in the future. And they will take all of any future Michigan income tax refunds for which you may be eligible. It may be that the Unemployment Agency was at fault for paying you the benefits in which case you should not be required to repay them. Was your case decided at a hearing before an Administrative Law Judge? If so, his decision should cover any repayment obligation. If you haven't appealed already to an ALJ hearing it might be worthwhile considering. The ALJs frequently reverse Unemployment Agency eligibility determinations. If your are going to appeal you should keep calling MARVIN until your case is finally resolved. Ralph Deeds

Brian 2 years ago

Hi Mr. Deeds,

I worked FULL time at "JOB A", last summer I took a part time job at "JOB B" (WHILE continuing to work FULL TIME for "JOB A").

I quit part time job "B" to focus on FULL TIME Job "A". 4 Months later I was LAID OFF from Job "A".

They have denied me benefits because "I voluntarily left my job without good cause attributable to the employer." BUT, the job I quit did not put me into unemployment. In fact, when I QUIT "job b", I REMAINED working FULL TIME at job A.

AT ALL TIMES I WORKED FULL TIME FOR JOB A. THERE WERE NO BREAKS OR ANYTHING. JOB "B" WAS SIMPLY FOR FUN, AND I QUIT.

Is this something you see common?

I found a case from 1995 when a circuit ruled in favor of someone in my position. It is in the State of Michigan's website. Should I bring this to the case? Or would the ALJ be offended that I am showing him how to make his decision?

Is my case a no-brainer, or should I worry about getting an advocate?

THANK YOU

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

No, your case is not a no brainer. You should get an advocate. I helped a client lose a case similar to yours not long ago. I would be interested in the citation for the 1995 case. If you can make a copy of the case, you or your advocate can cite the case and read brief pertinent parts into the record and then give the judge a copy of the case at the end of the hearing. Most judges are not offended by that.

Brian 2 years ago

Here is the URL for the case: http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

Now, what I don't understand is WHY my case isn't a no-brainer.

I made $30k+ at my full time job. After making $500 at the part time job, I decided to quit to FOCUS on my full time job. 4 months later I was unexpectedly LAID off from my full time job.

Yes, I quit a job. BUT, when I quit that "job", I did NOT put myself into unemployment. When I "quit", I was CONTINUING to work full time.

Therefore, I did NOT willingly put myself into unemployment. Me being LAID off put me into INVOLUNTARY unemployment.

How is this not a no-brainer?

Why can't they just charge my FULL time employer for unemployment, and NOT charge the part time?

I thought that in order to be DISQUALIFIED for QUITTING, you're QUITTING of a job had to PUT you into unemployment.

MY QUITTING OF A JOB, ONLY MADE IT ONE LESS JOB. NOT UNEMPLOYED.

I am confused as to why there is ANY chance that I might not receive my benefits?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I made all those arguments in a similar case recently and lost the case before the ALJ. The ALJ's decision was appealed to the Boared of Review in Lansing where the claimant lost in a split decision. I'm advising the claimant to appeal her case to Circuit Court. The decision you sent me will be helpful in her appeal. I wish I had seen it before the ALJ hearing. Thanks for providing it to me. It's a good and correct decision. It may well be that most ALJs will rule in your favor based on that decision. I definitely would provide the judge a copy of the decision at your hearing.

Brian 2 years ago

but WHAT is their rationale?

Better yet, why doesn't Section 29(5) apply to any of these cases? "Leaving to accept full time work."

Yes, I quit a job, but I did that in order to work full time at a different employer. 4 months later, I was LAID off.

How does 29(5) not protect people in my situation?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

The Board of Review majority didn't provide a rationale for affirming the ALJ's decision. The minority dissent was 4 pages of fine print. I could send you copies of the ALJ decision and the BOR decision if you like. In looking back at the case file, I actually did cite the Dickerson decision and I gave the judge a copy.

The ALJ's rationale was as follows:

"The claimant left her job voluntarily and has not demonstrated that it was with good cause attributable to her employer. The claimant's disqualification is not saved by the principle that a claimant quitting one job but retaining another full time job is not disqualifying under Secsion 29(1)(a). When the claimant quit her employment with Employer #1 on the effective date of August 28, she was no longer employed full time with Employer #2 having been laid off for lack of work."

My comment: The claimant had two full time jobs. She was told she was laid off from one job after she had given notice at the other job. As I recall she was laid off from the job she didn't quit because the patient could no longer afford to pay for the home care service. What the judge said was technically true. But the claimant had no knowledge that she was going to be laid off by Employer #2 when she gave notice of resignation to Employer #1. Another factor not mentioned in the decision was that she registered for a school class during the daytime hours she had been working for Employer #1, and when she was laid off by Employer #2 she did not go back to Employer #1 to see if work was available.

minerva123 2 years ago

My husband was told (after 11 months in a professional management position in a public institution) that he was being fired because he failed to include one previous job on his original application. It was a 5 month retail stint. At his current job, there had been tension because of differences in management philosophies. But his 6 month review was very positive (he has copies of his personnel file) and he had not been "written up" for these disagreements. They say his failure to list this old job constituted a material omission and they would not have hired him if they had this info. In reality, he made no attempt to hide this former job...in fact, he collaborated with the former employer's company regularly on behalf of this current job. He should have listed it, sure, but putting his best foot forward n his app...this job was beneath his professional training, was only 5 months, and when he left, he went to work for a competing store (upsetting the owner). But the fine print on his app. says that omissions on the app a grounds for dismissal. I should mention that this former boss is friends with the current director.

In negotiation today (presentation of the firing letter), he negotiated a written agreement that he was allowed to "resign in lieu of termination". He accepted so he could receive a very small severance and not have "fired" on his professional record. But it clearly state the "in lieu of" language.

They would not agree to "not contest" unemployment. Said the dept. did not have the authority to say one way or the other.

We will of course file for Michigan UI. Two questions though. What do we give as the "reason" for being unemployed? And secondly, is their "reason" should they contest, likely to rise to the level of serious misconduct?

Thanks for any perspective you may have.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

1. I don't believe your husband's omission of a 6-month job is a "material" omission, i.e., one that would have been likely to have caused the employer not to hire him. Material falsifications or omissions which amount to misconduct under the unemployment statute are listing college degrees that were not obtained, omitting serious criminal convictions and the like.

2. My recollection is that there are court cases in Michigan which have ruled that cases like your husband's where the employee resigned under duress are not voluntary leaving (resignation) cases. They are misconduct cases in which the burden of proof is on the employer. In my opinion, your husband's action did not amount to misconduct under the unemployment statute.

3. Unscrupulous employers use the bait of severance pay and leaving without a dismissal on their record to get employees who they are actually firing to sign a resignation letter in order to attempt to disqualify them from unemployment compensation and possibly other legal action. These "resignations" are not worth the paper they are printed on.

4. What to tell the unemployment agency--good question. I would be inclined to tell the agency that IN FACT I WAS FIRED BUT WAS INDUCED TO SIGN A RESIGNATION LETTER IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR SEVERANCE PAY AND NOT HAVE A DISCHARGE ON MY RECORD.

Your husband may have to go to a hearing before an administrative law judge in order to establish his eligibility for unemployment compensation. Even there a ruling of eligibility is not certain because some judges simply take the resignation letter as meaning what it says and rule that the case was a voluntary leaving without good cause attributable to the employer.

Your husband should observe all time limits for requests for redeterminations and requests for a hearing before an administrative law judge. And he should keep calling MARVIN to certify that he is available and seeking employment and report any earnings. The agency is very strict about all the reporting and other rules in the "green book."

Good luck! If you think of it let us know how the case develops and is resolved.

Brian 2 years ago

How would you be able to send it to me?

My E-mail is SpartanCoil AT yahoo.com

Obviously AT becomes "@" and there are no spaces. I only did it that way so "spy bots" don't read ur hubpage and get my E-mail for SPAM.

Your case was a little bit different than mine.

She quit a job, WHILE she was not working for the other employer at the time.

I quit a job, then CONTINUED to work for 4 months FULL TIME before I was unexpectedly laid off.

Also, would it work towards me or against me if the part time job that I quit, was an ice cream store, and would have been shutting down 3 or 4 weeks later anyway for the winter.

Your client quit a job WHILE she wasn't working for the other company, then she got laid off.

I, along with Dickerson in the case, quit a part time job WHILE working full time, and CONTINUED to work Full Time for a period of time.

If you red the ALJ's rationale, it appears that a LARGE portion of his reasoning behind DENYING her, is because when she QUIT the part time job, SHE NEVER WENT BACK TO WORK FOR THE OTHER JOB.

It sounds like if she HAD gone back to work, for a few weeks or months, then was completely unexpectedly laid off, she would have been accepted.

Do you agree?

Brian 2 years ago

The ALJ says "The claimant is NOT saved by the principle that quitting one job while retaining another FULL TIME job is NOT disqualifying under section 29"

Now, CORRECT me if I am wrong, but the ALJ just bluntly said that IF the claimant HAD quit a job, but CONTINUED to work full time at another job for a length of time, she would have been NOT disqualified under Section 29.

In other words, because she QUIT a job, but did NOT continue to work Full Time at another job, she is disqualified.

Therefore, technically, he WOULD have sided with me, because I quit a job, but CONTINUED to work full time.

Did I interpret his rationale correctly?

He simply states that IF she quit a job, but retained another full time job, she WOULD be saved. But because she did not work full time with another employer for any length of time, that principle in section 29 does not save her.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Your reasoning appears to me to be correct. In my opinion, for whatever that's worth, is that you should be eligible. Logic doesn't always prevail, however.

Brian, I don't have the documents in digital form. I received paper copies of the ALJ and B.O.R. decisions.

john 2 years ago

I am on unemployment right now. If I get a job at a contract company, work through the contract and if I'm not retained am i allowed to go on unemployment?

john 2 years ago

Also, I've heard some terms 'temp-contract' and 'temp-perm'. What do I need to ask a contract company about what my status would be before I hire in so I know what unemployment benefits rights I would have if later I am dismissed/contract not renewed.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

You may be eligible IF YOU NOTIFY THE TEMP AGENCY WITHIN A WEEK AFTER AN ASSIGNMENT ENDS. If you don't notify the temp agency within a week you are considered a quit (voluntary leaving) and you have to start over and re-qualify for benefits. Failing to notify the temp agency trips up quite a few claimants. I'm not familiar with the distinction between temp contract and temp perm. It certainly would be a good idea to inquire and have somebody explain all the procedures to you and exactly what your obligations are.

Sarah 2 years ago

Hi Ralph,

I have a question I hope you can answer for me. I just accepted a job on may 29th and really believed that it would be a good replacement from the one I lost due to the store going bankrupt and closing there stores. I really could have stayed on unemployment longer if I found a job closer to the one I was at before. That job was only 15 minutes.

Now, I accepted this job and have been there for about 2 1/2 weeks. Unfortunately, Its not at all how it seems. But, when I was hired they told me that it would be exactly like my other job the interviewing manager even told me that it would be a "replacement job".

But the bottom line is I go in everyday exhausted because it takes me about 45 minutes to 50 minutes with all the traffic everyday. My old job was 15 minutes. My manager basically attacks me before I even walk in the door about opening credit cards and if I dont I will be terminated! I dont know what to do. Can you please give me some advice? I feel very vunerable right now, mistreated and lead on. Can I still collect my original claim since its only been 2 1/2 weeks since Ive been at this new job?

Sarah

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I'm afraid I can't offer you much encouragement. If you resign you will probably not be eligible for benefits. The burden would be on you to establish "good cause attributable to the employer" which would cause a reasonable person to resign. That is not easy to do. Your situation sounds like it falls in a gray area. And court cases have said that employees have no right to expect a perfect boss, in cases where supervisors have verbally abused employees (shouted and even occasionally used profanity). Basically, the law says the reasonable person will find another job before quitting the one he or she has. 45-50 minutes is a long commute, but again I doubt that that would be found to be good cause for resigning. Sorry I can't be more encouraging. Good luck.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Further to Sarah: In a case where the claimant testified that she quit her job because she could not tolerate being constantly yelled at by her foreman the court of appeals ruled as follows:

"We cannot say as a matter of law that the supervisor's conduct is so compelling that reasonable persons of average sensibilities would conclude that plaintiff had a valid reason to give up her employment....A harmonious relationship with a sup0ervisor helps to make an employee's work pleasant, but the Employment Security Act was designed to address the evil of involuntary economic insecurity and not to compensate the worker who has an imperfect supervisor."

The court went overboard, in my opinion, on this decision. An employee should not be denied benefits for quitting because of continual abuse by a supervisor. Despite this appellate court ruling, some judges will rule for claimants in these kind of situations depending on the nature and extent of the abuse.

Sarah 2 years ago

Hi Ralph,

Thank you for answering my question, but as I said before I just started this job and they are threatening to fire me if i dont open 15 credit card charges within 2 months. I cant even open 1. If they do fire me for they would I be able to collect?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Hi Sarah,

Based on what you said you would be eligible for unemployment benefits. The burden is on the employer to prove misconduct. Misconduct has been defined by the courts as "wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest" which means a single serious offense or repeated minor offenses such as tardiness, absence without reasonable cause and the like. Inability to meet the employer's expectations or standards is not misconduct.

Katherine 2 years ago

Hi Ralph,

I've been w/ my company for 10 years and am currently expecting my second child. My doctor pulled me off of work 12 weeks prior to the birth for High Risk reasons. I applied for FMLA & Short Term Disability. However the FMLA only runs for 12 weeks - which would be right around the due date. My doctors have already told me to expect 8 weeks after the c-section before returning to work. If my company decides to replace my position on week 13, am I eligible for Unemployment? Is there a certain % of my regular pay that is usually given with unemployment?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

My understanding is that you would not be eligible for unemployment benefits while you are on a pregnancy leave. To be eligible you must be available for work and seeking work. Sorry I'm not able to offer encouraging advice. Good luck with your pregnancy and delivery.

If your employer refuses to allow you to return to work when your doctor approves your return you should then be eligible for benefits.

Alycia 2 years ago

Hi Dennis:

I am already receiving unemployment benefits. Recently I missed my scheduled time to contact MARVIN. I initially believed that I had called and MARVIN had an error but I contacted Customer Service and there was no error and when I pulled my phone records I saw I didn't call. Then I went through my journal to see what was going on that would make me not call, It was the week that my neice who lived with me had been attacked by her boyfriend and her and her son put out of the car and made to walk without any money. I assume in all of the rush and haste I didn't call. I sent in my appeal and letter stating this and I am wondering if this is "good cause". If not what is "good cause".

Butterfly64 2 years ago

Hello Ralph...I was fired from my job last month. I filed for unemployment benefits. My employer stated, in my termination letter, that I was fired for excessive absenteeism. We were allowed five sick days in a rolling-12 month period. At the time of my discharge I had seven. It was also stated in the letter that I was given a verbal warning on Nov. 3, 2008 for tardiness and that I was suspended in Jan. 2009 for absenteeism. I recieved the verbal warning at the time of my suspension. That was all I was given prior to termination. I called -in April 30, 2009, on May 5, my supervisor gave me a document stating that she had approved my last call-in. I worked until May 7, the day I was terminated. When I filed my unemployment claim, it came back within 2 weeks denying me benefits. The employer said I had excessive attendance violations and the last call-in I didn't properly notify my employer and my last absence was due to circumstances within my control. I called the UI today and was informed that my ex-employer has produced a document called a verbal-written warning. There was no such animal. You get a verbal or written warning. The rep. on the phone said it was dated for Nov. 4, 2008 with my signature!!! How low!!! I have never seen the document, so how could I sign it? They forged my signature. My termination letter speaks of the infamous VERBAL warning that I supposedly recieved. The rep. goes on to tell me that they have also thrown in some tardies that were never discussed with me and not mentioned in the termination letter. They even faxed a copy of my performance evaluation. I guess to add punch. My question is...are employers allowed to change the reason (s) they terminated an employee and lie because they don't want that employee recieving benefits? It clearly states I was fired for excessive absenteeism. And what about condonation? I was on the payroll seven days after my last call-in before I was let go. Wouldn't that apply in this case? Can you please shed some light on this issue please? Thank you so much Ralph.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Alycia, the Michigan Unemployment Agency is quite strict about "good cause" for not calling MARVIN to certify. For all intents and purposes you may as well read "good cause" as "unable" due to hospitalization, car hit by train, phone company cut of my service and I couldn't use a neighbor's phone or the like. Fortunately, if you are still unemployed when your benefits are exhausted the two weeks will not be lost, but will be tacked on at the end.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Butterfly64,

Absenses alone are not disqualifying misconduct. The employer has the burden of proving that you were absent WITHOUT REASONABLE CAUSE several times within a reasonable period,and that you did not respond to warnings about the issue.

Some employers dredge up all kinds of phony or exaggerated issues in order to disqualify their former employees from receiving benefits. All you do is request a redetermination and if that is unfavorable request a hearing before an administrative law judge. In the meantime keep calling MARVIN until your case is resolved. The ALJ will weigh the evidence and testimony presented by you employer and by you and decide whether you are eligible for benefits. Good luck!

Matt 2 years ago

Do you know the wait time for a determination of EUC benefits in Michigan. The form I received said to allow 10 business days for a determination. It's been almost 15 business days and I have not heard anything. Just thought you may be able to shed some light on this. Thanks

Butterfly64 2 years ago

ThanksRalph for promptly responding to my comment. I did fax a Protest of Determination to the UIA on June 5th. I faxed to them a handwriiten letter explaining what really happened (no warnings). I also faxed my termination letter which stated I was teminated for excessive absenteeism. Also faxed were documents that show my last call-in was.approved, and I was never given any warnings for absenteeism. I only recieved a verbal warning in Jan. for excessive tardiness. I will keep you updated on any new developments.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Matt, I think the agency is usually pretty prompt with determinations. However, with the current high unemployment in Michigan there have been a lot of delays. I don't have access to information on the average time required for determinations or redeterminations. The administrative law judges are usually quite prompt--a week or less in most cases.

Brian 2 years ago

MATT- since I am going through the determination/redetermination/appeal process right now, I can tell you how long it took for each.

1. Initial determination - 6 weeks

2. Redetermination - 7 weeks

3. Request for hearing- 7 weeks

I filed January 15th, and just TODAY, June 24th, did I get to talk in front of an Administrative Law Judge.

Not trying to scare you, just want you to be prepared. Expect to wait AT LEAST a month. Do NOT depend on that money. Even if you get your determination in 5 weeks, it could rule against you. Then you've got another 6 weeks for a determination!

Ralph, so ALJ decisions are usually receive within 1 week? And Ralph, thanks SO much for all of your help. You are the only person I know of who is offering free information and advice on this. I really admire you for that. You REALLY are Mr. Deeds, doing a great deed for people in need of help.

Brian 2 years ago

Ralph,

I have one more questions:

IF the ALJ decides in my favor, and my employer for SOME reason decides to appeal the ALJ's decision, I know it goes to the Board in Lansing, BUT, will I continue to receive benefits until the Board rules in her favor (IF they do), or will they automatically stop payments to me, and make me wait for the Board to rule in my favor?

That's what I'm really worried about. That the ALJ will rule in my favor, but my employer will protest it, and then I won't get any money until the Board of Review rules in my favor? Which could be another 2 months!!

Brian 2 years ago

GVAZDA RULED IN MY FAVOR!!!!!

Thanks so much for recommending Steve B.!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Congrats! That's good news. If your're lucky the employer won't appeal.

nancy 2 years ago

How long should I wait for the Board of Review to make a decision? The BOR has had my case since Feb. and when I call they tell me the BOR has no time frame.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Yours must be a tough case. The B.O.R. usually is pretty prompt. Six months is unusually long. Good luck.

Alycia 2 years ago

Thank you for your response.

Brian 2 years ago

Nancy - Did you win the ALJ decision?

Or did you lose the ALJ decision, and YOU appealed to the B.O.R.?

IF you won the ALJ decision, and your employer Appealed to the B.O.R., did they stop payments to you? Or do they keep paying you until the B.O.R. ruled in your employer's favor?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

The Agency keeps (or starts) paying your benefits even if an employer appeals the ALJ decision.

Duped 2 years ago

The company I worked for just sold a portion of its manufacturing business back to a company they had bought it from a few years ago. I worked for that company then and was sold in that separation. Friday the entire company was split into four groups. The ones who will stay with the present company, the ones who will be hired by the buying company, the ones who no longer have a position with either company, and the one i was put into, they ones who are being asked to be temporary employees (employed by a temp agency), at same pay, no benefits. Doing the exact same job, for buying company, approx. 2-6 weeks, depending on how long they take to get everything situated. We were told that they strongly recommended we take this "opportunity" as to turn down a job offer may effect our UC elegibility. We were told that although we were permanently separated from our current employer, we did not need to file at unemployment since they new companys temp position begins on Monday should we choose to accept it. So my questions are:

1. Can my UC elegibility be denied if I do not want to be a temporary employee working for the buying company. I need healthcare and other benefits offered by full time permanent employment, and being a full time temp doesnt offer the time need to search, apply and interview for permanent positions.

2. If i take this offer and become employed by the temporary agency, will I have to stay employed by the temp agency after the temporary position is over. Or if I tell them I don't want to be employed past that point is that to be considered quitting a job and thus again effecting my UC benefits.

3. If I do take the temp job, should I still file for unemployment since my employer of 10 years has severed me from the company, although I wont actually be missing any pay by jumping from one job right into the other.

I really dont mind helping the new company out especially making the same rate of pay (minus benefits) for a short period of time but I dont want to be tied to a temp agency after that. Wish they would have just let me go. I know this is short notice but its all the time they gave us to decide. clueless and bummed! thanks!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

1. Depending on how your compensation and benefits compare as a temp employee with your compensation and benefits at your original employer you may have "good cause attributable to your employer" for not taking the offer. However, beware, the burden is on you to establish good cause attributable to your employer. The basic law says that a reasonable person will find another job before quitting the one he has. There are court decisions which say that a 17 percent wage cut amounts to good cause for quitting.

2. If you take the temp agency job and the assignment comes to an end you would be obligated to accept another temp assignment from the company. If you refused a suitable assignment you would be ineligible for benefits. Moreover, employees of temp agencies are obligated to notify their temp agency withing 5 days after the conclusion of an assignment. If you fail to do so you will be considered a quit without good cause attributable to your employer and ineligible for benefits.

3. It would be pointless, as far as I can see, for you to file for unemployment compensation if you accept the temp job. You would not be eligible for benefits so long as you are working tor the temp employer. If you were laid off by the temp employer later on you should file for benefit. Part of the benefits might be charged to your original employer.

Good luck!

[My answers are based on my experience in Michigan. I believe they are correct to the best of my knowledge, but I am not warranting that they are applicable to your case].

marleneu2 2 years ago

So, if you have a hearing (conducted by phone since i live out of town) before the ALJ, and the reason for the hearing was a three month period of time that employer thought i was paid for, but i was not, and the ALJ's decision was that i was ineligible from collecting for a period of like over year! now they want $10K back, AND i did hire an attorney to file an Appeal for me, which he did at the beginning of 2009. He ordered a transcript, and then when he received it, it was incomplete. It is now six months later, and my attorney says he has heard nothing.

How long does it usually take to hear something back from the BOR? And how can an ALJ rule on a period of time that was not initially referenced to on the notice of hearing?

Thanks for ANY input you can give me.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

The length of time taken by the Board of Review to issue a decsision varies widely with the Board's case load and the complexity of each case. The ALJ is supposed to rule only on the issues listed on the Notice of Hearing. If an additional issue arises during a hearing he is supposed to adjourn the hearing so that both parties have an opportunity to deal with the new issue. However, if both parties agree to allow the new issue to be discussed the hearing can go forward and the new issue decided by the the ALJ.

Matt 2 years ago

Thanks for the advice Brian! I did have to wait 6 weeks for my initial determination. I collected unemployment checks for the 26 weeks and was sent a letter telling me how to apply for the Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC). I applied for that and am now awaiting a determination on that. The letter they sent said 10 business days, but if it's anything like the initial determination to see if I was eligible for unemployment in the first place, it could take much longer. I'll just keep certifying and wait to see if I am eligible for the EUC.

Nancy 2 years ago

The AlJ went against me. My employer told me my termination was imminent due to missed work and I was still in my probationary period.The asst.mgr told me if I resigned I could re-apply when my issue was resolved(baby-sitter)When I re-applied for my position back,the record showed I was fired for job abandonment but I had sent in a written resignation.(No one has a record of that.) I am disqualified because I quit even tho employer says no she was terminated.ALJ hearing was 2 days before Christmas,so I could not find an Advocate for my hearing.Board of Review has had my case since Feb.2.No one can help me because my case is with the BOR.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Sorry to hear that. Maybe the B.O.R. will go the other way. Good luck.

Nancy 2 years ago

Sir, You are the first person in 5 months that has given me any help with the above matter. I was wondering what you think my chances are and if there is anything else I can do at this point.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

It might be helpful in speeding up your decision if you could get your state represenative or state senator's office to contact the B.O.R. I don't think they could influence the decision one way or the other, but they might speed it up. I wouldn't hold out too much hope that the B.O.R. will reverse the ALJ. They affirm the majority of decisions, but they also reverse a significant number. Good luck! Let us know when your case is resolved. In the meantime keep calling MARVIN.

Nancy 2 years ago

LOL!! I have been calling Marvin every other week for almost a year and haven't rec'd a dime!

Jean 2 years ago

The company for which I worked for 5 years went into chapter 11 bankruptcy in April 2008. The conevrsion to Chapter 7 was completed June 30, 2009. As the company no longer exists, my employment also ended June 30, however i have been offered the opportunity to stay on as a contract employee (not through a temp agency) of the liquidating trustee. My question is: should I file for unemployment immediately or wait until after the contract expires?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

If there is no gap in your employment I don't see a problem with waiting until your contract employment is completed. If you filed before that, your earnings would render you ineligible for benefits. I've had no personal experience with this situation, so you may wish to contact the Unemployment Agency for an opinion. On the Agency website linked above you'll find a list of "Problem Resolution Offices" where you can go and speak face-to-face with a human being.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Jean, here's a link to the Agency's Problem Resolution Offices http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--78925--,

When you do apply for benefits make sure you follow the instructions to the letter. The Agency is quite strict about compliance with its rules and deadlines. You will get a green booklet which explains the procedures in detail. You should read it and follow the instructions carefully.

Michelle 2 years ago

My husband was fired from his job April 14, 2009. His benefits were denied on the basis of misconduct on the original determination and the redetermination. Tuesday he faxed in a request for an appeal before an ALJ. He worked for an electronics retailer. He had previously worked for the company for 4 years and was a store manager for 2 1/2. He left on good terms the first time. He started working for them again in Sept '08 and had only 6 weeks of training before they made him a manager again and he was never trained in the new policies that had been implemented since the last time he worked for the company. He was fired because the company stated he gave unauthorized discounts using price matching without a competitor's ad. He had a customer that was eligible for an upgrade on a cell phone and met all requirements for the discounted price of the phone. The phone rang up at full price and he contacted the service provider who told him that it should have rang up with the discounts. He made several calls to supervisors to find out what to do and nobody returned his calls. He finally called a senior manager and was told to change the price through price matching. He did so and noted the customer's account and emailed his district manager about the situation. It had always been the company's policy in the past to make sure that the customer was given the price as marked, so he thought that he did was expected of him in the situation. Over a month later, he was fired for it. From what I understand from Michigan case law, he should have been eligible for unemployment benefits because he acted in "good faith." Am I wrong on this? How should this be brought up in front of the ALJ? Do we even have a chance at this appeal?

Stacy 2 years ago

My husband (Jon) was fired from his job, at the time his boss said that he needed to make cut backs & that Jon was on the list. His boss is now disputing Jon's unemployment claim, stating that Jon showed blatant disrespect for pubic safety. In the 5 plus years that Jon worked for the company he has never gotten a ticket but was written up for a speeding warning 2 years ago (3 miles over) Jon was also in 2 no-fault accidents. In Sept 07 he was in a head on accident where a lady crossed the center line & hit HIM head on. He wasn't given any form of ticket nor was he written up. His boss did require a blood draw for drugs & alcohol, which came back clear. Then this winter a deer hit him in the side panel of the delivery truck ~ again no ticket & no write up. Jon has a perfect driving record in & out of work. His boss has never put his on disciplinary suspension & up until 2 week ago hasn't ever thought that he was in danger of losing his job. What should we expect to happen? We called the Michigan unemployment agency & they said the dispute could take 3-6 weeks & that Jon should get a copy of the dispute in the mail. When & how will a decision be made? What are Jon's chances of getting the unemployment? He's looking for employment but their just aren't any jobs!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Michelle, its hard for me to offer an accurate opinion without reading the file and seeing what the company is telling the Agency. However, based on what you said it sounds to me like your husband should be eligible for benefits. The burden is on the employer to establish misconduct which requires intent to harm the interest of the employer. I suggest that he get an advocate and pursue his appeal before an ALJ. In the meantime he should continue to call MARVIN until his appeal is resolved.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Stacy, the first step is an agency determination. If that goes against your husband, he should ask for a redetermination. If the redetermination goes against him he can appeal within the 30 day time limit by asking for a hearing before an administrative law judge. The judges reverse the agency fairly often. It doesn't sound to me as if your husband committed disqualifying misconduct. The burden is on the employer to prove "wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest." Your husband should keep calling MARVIN until his appeal is finally resolved. This can take several months because the Agency is flooded with cases. Good luck!

Kristin Isenberg 2 years ago

I just received a re-determination from Michigan Unemployment stating that I need to repay my unemployment that I collected for the amount that I collected at the beginning of the 2009 year. I quit a secondary job (I left for medial reasons) a month prior to being laid off from my full time (40 + hour a week) primary job. They are stating that since I left this 20 hour a week secondary job (the job was for extra money) I was not eligible for benefits. I do agree that my secondary job should not have to pay for unemployment as I was only with them for about 3 months. I was with my primary employer for over 2.5 years and that is where the benefit should have been pulled from. I did not make the $4344.00 between the "quitting" of the secondary job and being laid off from my primary job as they did not count one of may paychecks because of the "dates worked" indicated on the check.

I would like to appeal this decision with a hearing. What type of documentation would they be looking at this hearing. What do you think my chances are for winning a favorable decision? I guess you could call my defense "how can I predict the future when my crystal ball was in the shop?"

Thank you for your time and information,

Kristin

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

In my opinion, the Unemployment Agency is wrong in your case although the law isn't clear. I can't predict your chances of winning. In part it will depend on your luck of the draw of a judge. You should be prepared to testify on the dates you worked and earnings at each employer and the circumstances of your terminations. I had a case similar to yours not long ago, and, unfortunately, the claimant lost. She is appealing to the Board of Review. I wish I could offer you more encouragement. Good luck.

If you think of it, let us know how your case turns out, and keep calling MARVIN until your case is settled.

Matt 2 years ago

I have been reading that in Michigan you may be eligible to collect unemployment for a total of 79 weeks. 26 weeks for the initial unemployment, 33 weeks for the EUC tier 1 and tier 2. Now it looks like you can get another 20 weeks after your EUC has run out. Is this true? I just recently began my collecting on my EUC Tier 1 of 20 weeks and I'm hoping as long as a keep certifying and keeping a bi-weekly work seach record that I will be eligible for that extra 20 weeks.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

From the Unemployment Agency website:

How do I apply for an unemployment extension? If any unemployment benefit extensions are added or changed, UIA will notify potentially eligible unemployed workers by mail. Currently, there are two federal extensions in effect in Michigan - Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC) tier 1 and tier 2 - and the federal-state Extended Benefits (EB) program.

Filing instructions for the federal EUC tier 1 program (20 weeks of benefits maximum) are mailed to unemployed workers who are about to exhaust their regular state benefits. When workers exhaust their EUC tier 1 benefits, the second tier (13 weeks maximum) is calculated automatically and a determination is mailed to workers showing the additional weeks of benefits. Workers do not need to apply for EUC tier 2. They simply continue to call MARVIN.

Michigan issued Extended Benefits to those who are unemployed or underemployed, have exhausted all of their state and federal unemployment benefits and federal EUC and cannot establish a new claim on or after 1/25/09. In addition, those claiming EB must perform a work search and list the employers contacted each week. EB provides up to 20 weeks of benefits. UIA notifies workers to file for EB when they are about to exhaust their final EUC tier 2 benefit payments.

mary 2 years ago

Ralph, I was let go from my job for not reaching a goal of 60 phone calls per week. It said I was l was aware of the policy & recieved past warnings. I have 1 written discusion in my file on that. A schedule was made for me to sit at a back station and make calls. The week in question I was kept from my station and left to run the front desk one afternoon because of another employee going home. When I tried to explain it they let me go instead. What do you think?

GinaD 2 years ago

Hello I was wondering if you can answer a question for me-I live in Florida I know that from state to state it is diffrent but... here goes...I was on unemployment in January 09 and was getting benefits till April 09 and it was the extended unemployment benefits -I still had $1700 left on the extended benefits but I started working in April so my benefits stopped and now I was let go due to what they are stating that I was argumentative which I was not but they had to down size and I was the last person hired first person fired. I wanted to know since I only worked there 3 months would I still be able to get the extended benefits that were left on my claim. I know they will fight me on this and I will appeal because what they are stating is untruthful. Do you have any answers for me???????

Thank You

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Gina, I'm not completely sure of the answer to your question. In Michigan I think you would be eligible to continue your benefits because "being argumentative" does not remotely amount to misconduct under the statute. I would appeal to an administrative law judge hearing. Until your appeal is resolved keep on certifying in accordance with the Florida unemployment agency procedures. NOTE: I have no experience in Florida or knowledge of Florida unemployment compensation regulations. Good luck!

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Mary, from what you said you would not be disqualified from unemployment benefits in Michigan. Misconduct requires intent to disregard your employer's interest. Inability to make a quota of calls does not amount to misconduct unless you were taking too long for lunch or coffee breaks. Good luck.

srpatterson profile image

srpatterson 2 years ago

Seems that many employers will let someone go so they can claim unemployment benefits. I have a brother in law that quit a couple of jobs and then was laid off. He's one of the few that do not get the benefits.

jaxman 2 years ago

I recently won my appeals and am owed 22 weeks of unemployment. How long do I have to wait before receiving the back money from Unemployment

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

In Michigan the checks usually go out withing a couple of weeks.

John N. 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds: I wonder if you might provide me with some advice on an unemployment insurance appeal. I failed to register/certify for benefits because I had a reasonable belief I would be quickly re-employed, either by my former employer, or another company. I was not and was forced to file for unemployment insurance. My claim for back benefits was denied as "personal and non-compelling." How best to appeal and what is the standard to show good cause for failure to register? Thanks.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

In Michigan the standard for good cause for missing a filing or certifying deadline is very strict. Basically you must be unable to timely file or certify, e.g., seriously ill, out of the state for a family funeral or given misinformation by a representative of the Unemployment Agency. However, the weeks you missed out on will be tacked on at the end if you are still unemployed. Sorry I can't be more encouraging.

John N. 2 years ago

Thanks, Ralph. You are providing a valued service. In stating, "the weeks you missed out on will be tacked on at the end if you are still unemployed," you mean that the period I did not claim will be included in my 26 weeks, not in addition to. Correct?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

My understanding is that if you become eligible for unemployment compensation in the future, the period you did not claim will not be deducted from your 26 weeks of eligibility. That is you will be eligible for 26 weeks plus any extensions in effect for which you may become eligible.

cass 2 years ago

Hi, I live in Michigan and was fired from my job of 2 yrs without any warning, they just took me off the schedule and said I no longer had a job.I filed for unemployment and recieved a letter asking for more info because my employer said I was fired for poor attendence. That was over me not being able to work for 2 days because I had a misscarrige. Any way I supplied unemployment with the reason and the docs excuse I had given my employer. I then was sent a letter saying I was denied because I quit????????????? Can they have it both ways? My employer said I quit the 5th of june , but I worked the 5th and the 6th and was on the schedule for the next week. My pay stub reflects I worked after my employer claims I quit. I ask for a redetermination and provided a copy of my pay stub and schedules and time clock. How can they lie like this?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

If I were you I would request a redetermination and if that is unfavorable ask for a hearing before an administrative law judge. The agency makes quite a few mistakes in its determinations which are often reversed by administrative law judges. The result will depend on the facts regarding your termination based on testimony by you and your employer before an administrative law judge.

cass 2 years ago

I wanted to add what happened. On the 5th of June I talked to my employer, because since I had the misscarrige they cut my hours way down,and I did talk to her about my hours and told her I "MAY" have to look for another job she said we could work it out. I finished my shift on the 5th came into work on the 6th they had me on the scheudle the following week for weds , thurs, and fri. , so I felt every thing was fine. I called weds morning to see if I had to be in at 1 or 2: o clock that day I was told I was taken off the schedule all together and no longer had a job. I guess I was fired for wanting more hours. My employers is lieing now and saying I quit. How do you quit on the 5th and work on the 6th? She claims I quit on the 5th and she accepted it on the 11th. Yet she had me on the schedule to work that week then redid the schedule at the beginning of the week and took me off, which was done before the 11th. I was smart enuff to get a copy of both those schedules. How long does unemployment have to get back with you once you ask for a redetermination?

Thank You So Much.

Cass

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Sounds to me like you should be eligible for benefits. But that will depend on what your employer says at the hearing and what you say and who the judge believes. There is no set time limit on the Agency for its redeterminations. As you might imagine they are very busy now and taking longer than usual. I don't think it should take more than a month.

Mary 2 years ago

I live in Michigan and I've been laid off for lack of work since May. As of July 13, my plant laid off almost everyone for two weeks for shut-down. Almost everyone is off,yet there are a few people (in the same department and classification as me) that are working during the shut-down based on their senority. I didn't have enough to return to work with my 10 years.

They are forcing us to use vacation for these weeks. Everyone was already paid for vacation in May in a lump-sum payment. So we won't actually recieve any earnings during these two weeks. Also, others that worked the week before the shut-down recieved letters from the state stating the employer filed new claims for them for lack of work. I did not receive a letter because my claim is still open.

Can they force me not to call marvin for these two weeks? I've worked at this plant for 10 years. This is not an assembly plant and we've always worked during the shut-down or had inverse-senority lay-offs to accomodate for the lack of work.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Your vacation pay which you received in May may be assigned by your employer to the two week shutdown period in July provided:

"To assign vacation pay the employer must first give Notice to the claimant, in writing, before his/her last day of work and prior to the period to which the employer has decided to assign the vacation pay.

"The notice must include the following:

--that the employer intends to make the assignment of vacation pay;

--the period to which the employer is assigning the vacation pay; and

--that the assignment of vacation pay to a period of unemployment may make the claimant ineligible for unemployment benefits for that period.

"The Notice to the claimant must be made in one of the following ways:

--include the Notice in the contract of employment;

--deliver the Notice to the claimant and union representative of the claimant; or

Post the Notice on the job befgore the claimant's last day of work and give a copy to the claimant's union representative."

Jason 2 years ago

Hi Ralph, first off I want to say that I think it's incredible that you take the time to try to help people like this, free of charge. It's a rare thing in today's world.

I have to go to a hearing next month because my ex-employer is appealing the benefits I've collected since they terminated me in February. I was fired for an error on a timesheet that was my fault. The error, if it had not been caught, would have resulted in me getting overpaid by 1/4 of an hour. I was employed with the company for 7 years.

They are trying to claim deliberate falsification of hours worked on my part.

The error was the result of my own incompetence, but was certainly not "deliberate". I forgot to punch in electronically that day (not a rare occurrence there), and didn't realize it until I went to punch out at the end of the day. Now it is the responsibility of a certain supervisor there to mark employees of my position as "late" on the sign-in sheet, and to also mark down the time they arrived if they were late. When I filled out the time correction form, I checked the sign-in sheet and saw that I had not been marked as late.

Not thinking anything of it, and not being aware of my exact arrival time due to not seeing the time clock when I arrived that day, I simply put down my scheduled start time.

I was informed the following week that I had been terminated due to the reason stated above. They had a manager from a different shift fire me, and I was never even given the opportunity to speak to anyone from my shift about the incident. No disciplinary action was taken against the supervisor who didn't mark down my arrival time.

It might also be worthy to note that I was not replaced. In fact, none of the employees at my position who have left or been fired have been replaced in over 2 years there. It was no secret that they had an over-abundance of people at that position.

I am very nervous about next months hearing, as I know that they will attempt to portray certain events and statements out of context. I know this because of written statements from the management obtained by my union steward.

Is it definitely in my best interest to obtain an advocate in this situation? Also, does a ruling against the claimant always result in the claimant having to pay back benefits already received?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Jason, in my opinion you are entitled to benefits but winning your case before some of the administrative law judges will not be a slam dunk. Misconduct under the controlling case is defined as "wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest" and intent is one of the requisite elements the employer must prove. The burden is on the employer to establish misconduct. At the hearing the employer usually is required to testify first followed by an opportunity for your representative to cross examine the employer witness(es). They you will have an opportunity to tell your side of the story in the form of questions from your representative and possibly the judge and your answers. Then the employer representative will have the opportunity to cross examine you. To win you will have to explain how the error happened and convince the judge that it was inadvertent or careless, not intentional. Some judges in Michigan might be inclined to treat the incident as theft which is clearly misconduct under the law, even when only a small value is involved. Others will be more likely to accept your testimony that you had no intent to enter an incorrect time on the time sheet.

It will definitely be to your advantage to have an advocate. If you like you can email me through HubPages, and I might be able to advise you on a good advocate and on what you are likely to encounter from the judge who will be hearing your case. Best of luck!

If you lose, the Unemployment Agency will ask you to repay the benefits you have received. They will grab any state income tax refund to which you may be entitled or become entitled and a portion of any future unemployment benefits to which you may be entitled. My understanding is that they won't turn you over to a bill collector or force you into bankruptcy or put a lien on your house.

Jason 2 years ago

Thanks Ralph, I've just sent you an email about the ALJ.

Jason 2 years ago

Thanks again Ralph, I got your reply, and I'm going to do what you suggested.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Good luck!

Michelle 2 years ago

Thank you for your earlier advice. My husband had his appeal hearing over the phone this afternoon. The person the company chose to speak on its behalf was my husband's former district manager. He had no knowledge of the case and the company didn't even bother to send any paperwork to the judge or even the district manager. The district manager couldn't even remember the date my husband was hired, promoted or fired. The judge was very irritated that the company investigator wasn't on the call and that he received no paperwork from the company. The district manager tried to bring up something that was said by the investigator and the judge interrupted him and said that if he had no further proof then the hearing was closed. It sounds to me like my husband probably won. My husband's advocate was also confident that it went well.

The judge said that we would receive a copy of his decision in the mail in a few days. My husband has a debit card for his unemployment compensation, and I was wondering about how long it would take for him to actually receive the money. Do you know if the judge's office will fax the decision to the unemployment office. My husband's been out of work for 16 weeks, so we're getting a little anxious.

Thank you so much for all of your advice. You are providing a great service.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

That sounds like good news. As you know, the Unemployment Agency is very busy. But I don't think it takes very long for them to start paying benefits once they receive a decision from the ALJ. I would think it wouldn't be more than a couple of weeks although I don't have access to information on how prompt they are.

You are welcome. I'm glad your husband's case appears to have been resolved in his favor.

jiberish profile image

jiberish 2 years ago

Thanks for the info. I just read some fine print, and here in Florida you cannot work part-time and continue to recieve benefits, unless the weekly income is below $52.00. So am I to assume, that if you can't find a full time job equivalent to what you were used to making, and you take a part-time job they will deduct this from your benefits? Hog wash!

A. CHRISTINE 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds

I was fired from my job in june and I filed for unemployment immediately.I got papers asking for more info because I was fired.I sent in the papers right away and even sent copies of my seperation papers from my employer stating the reason for seperation Involuntary Seperation Code: Failure to provide common courtesy to guest(internal&external).I'm a waitress. I just received a notice of determination and it says that I'm disqualified because of a violation of company policy, and that I was aware of the policy.Misconduct in connection with work. That I deliberately disregarded my employers interest.My manager said that a guest called him(not the complaint line)and said that i refused his coupon,was inattentive,wouldn't give him his discount, and when he asked to speak with a manager I said "NO".I started explaining to my manager what happened and that this man was lying. The manager on duty was aware of this man and how rude he was when I first approached the table but I was trying to kill him with kidness.I gave him two discounts on his bill and.I was following what he had told the staff and not accept internet coupons because that were fake. I even offered him a free dessert for the inconvenience but he declined.The manager on duty was given a heads up and even had her get me a senior discount card out of the office so the woman at the table had one.The man paid in credit card and left a good tip.My manager has had it out for me for a while so I couldn't believe that a guest would say that and it could be proven differently so I asked to see a copy of the complaint and that when my manager told me the guest personally called him and there wasn't one.He never investigated it or even spoke to the manager on duty that day he just fired me.I asked for a copy of my file and he told me he couldn't it was against the law and I couldn't even see it.I guess my question is what advice can you give me based on this information???? I have read what is misconduct and I dont know how he can tell them that when I even gave them a copy of my seperation papers and what he put as to why I was being fired.

Alan 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I have a question pertaining to if i would be able to turn down a job offer based solely on the wages they offer.

I have 8 weeks of unemployment left on my original state claim. I should be eligible for extended benefits. As i understand, the statute says that i must accept any job offer, but could turn it down if they pay offered is more than 30% less of what i was making before. ( i have to accept if the pay is at least 70% + of what i made before)

I worked in manufacturing, and the new job would possibly be at a grocery store.

I want to work, but accepting a job making less than 70% of my previous wages would put me into bankruptcy.

Would i have good cause for turning down a job that pays less than 70% of my previous wages, and if i can do that, will it interrupt my benefits?

The green books seems kind of foggy on this.

Thank you

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Christine, from what you said you should be eligible for benefits unless similar incidents have happened in the past. The employer has the burden of proving misconduct. A single isolated incident based on the customer's incorrect version of what happened doesn't amount to misconduct. You should ask for a hearing before an administrative law judge. Get the best advocate you can find and tell your side of the story to the judge. In the meantime keep calling MARVIN to certify that you are still unemployed and seeking work. Good luck.

Alan, what is a "suitable" job offer is a bit of a gray area. Generally speaking it is a job done before or that you are capable of doing based on your education, training or previous experience. Here's what the agency says

"If an individual refuses an offer of otherwise suitable work (work he has done or can do), the individual will be disqualified from receiving unemployment benefits if;

-the individual has been unemployed up to 12 weeks and the offered wage is at least 80% of the worker's most recent previous wage

-the individual has been unemployed between 13 and 20 weeks and the offered wage is at least 75% of the worker's most recent previous wage

-The individual has been unemployed more than 20 weeks and the offered wage is at least 70% of the worker's most recent previous wage

The offer of work must be "specific" in terms of hours, wages, fringe benefits, conditions and duties of the job.

Alan 2 years ago

Thank you for the information. This makes my question a bit clearer.

Vicki 2 years ago

I was an engineer in the auto industry. I have been unemployed since sept of 08 and my unemployment year will be up in sept 09 - my question is will I continue to get unemployment benefits if i am still looking for a job and have not been offered an interview or a job after my year is up?

I am also going to college via NWLB and the case worker said they would send a waiver for job search to UIA but how will that affect my benefits for the next 2 years while I am in school?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

You should automatically receive an application for extended benefits. I believe the current maximum in Michigan is 79 weeks. If you receive a waiver your benefits should not be affected by your school work. However, be advised that I am not familiar with how this program works. I don't know whether you will be eligible to receive benefits beyond the maximum,until you are finished with school. You should be able to rely on your case worker and information from the UIA. If you get more definite information please share it with us on this forum.

Melissa 2 years ago

Hi Ralph. I was fired from my job in April for violation of a last chance agreement. I have been denied due to misconduct & have appealed. I was denied a second time and appealed for a hearing. The unemployment agency told me today that they recieved my second appeal one day late. What do I do?? I have a medical condition & was going through a custody battle and my unemployment paper had gotten misplaced. I could have sworn that I mailed it on time but I guess I didn't. Can ya give me any advice on writing my letter as to why this second appeal was late? Thank you in advance for your help.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Melissa, The agency is very strict about its deadlines and the court cases make it very hard to establish good cause for missing an appeal deadline. You practically have to show that you were incapacitated and in the hospital or attending the funeral of a close relative.

Here's what the Wayne Circuit Court said i Jones v Showcase:

Good cause is not defined the the Act. MESC regulation 270 (4) lists the following: 1) newly discovered material facts which through no fault of the claimant were not available to the claimant at the time of the determination; 2) when the MESC has additional or corrected information; 3) when an administrative or clerical error has been discovered.

Regulation 2102)b and 270 and rule 109 also define good cause. Good cause under these rules includes acts of God (floods, storms or other natural disasters), reliance on a promise of work, or seeking work where a reasonable indication that work is available exists, the closing of MESC offices, physical incapacity, attendance at a funeral, incarceration or jury duty.

"RThe examples given for good cause in the MESC rules and regualtions, while not meant to be definitive or exclusive, clearly imply a situation out of the claimant's direct control. Procedural deadlines would be meaningless if claimants could bring appeals months after the expiration of time limitations simply because they have changed their minds about taking action."

Delays in delivery of mail can also constitute good cause in some circumstances. One court case ruled that the postal service taking 9 days to deliver the claimant's appeal constituted good cause for his late appeal.

Melissa 2 years ago

Thank you Ralph. Do I have any options at this point or should I just admit that I screwed up and quit fighting??

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Well, from what you said I don't think your chances are very good. However, it doesn't cost anything to have a hearing before an administrative law judge.

Al 2 years ago

Hi Ralph. I found your hub tonite. An interesting read. I have a question that I haven't found on your site. I was laid off after 22 years. A half year into my UIA benefits, I turned 55 (6/1/09) and was eligible and submitted my pension settlement. I was sent a booklet from my employer in January that had 5 choices of varied Joint and Survivor Annuities, along with a Lump-Sum alternative. This information states, that the "amounts are only an estimate of what you could receive." You must make an irreversible decision from this estimate. I selected the Lump-Sum of $98,000 and actually received $91,000 and placed it in a qualified IRA plan. The new amount was explained as a revision of the factors from Dec 08 to Mar 09. We took the Lump-Sum based on lack of confidence/knowlege that the pension is properly managed. The vast reduction in the lump-sum over a 3 month period, I feel, is a confirmation of that.

I claimed thru MARVIN that I did receive a pension on 6/1/09. This raised flags at the agency with weeks in limbo. I just received a determination, citing Section 27(F) that I could have taken a pension as a monthly payment of $697.00. There will be a pro-rated reduction of my weekly benefit. This amount is the highest amount of the monthly alternatives of Joint & Survivorship presented. Remember, these were ESTIMATES, but my previous employer used it as a functional number in feedback to the UIA.

I reviewed the 27(F)in the MES act. It references a reduction of what is actually received monthly, not what I could have gotten. Your comments please?

tameka hunt 2 years ago

I RECEIVED UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS FOR A PERIOD OF TIME AND MY BENEFIT PERIOD ENDED...I RECEIVED THREE EXTENSIONS AND WHEN I APPLIED FOR THE FOURTH EXTENSION THEY DENIED ME AND TOLD ME THAT I OWED THEM MONEY. IT HAS BEEN NINE WEEKS AND I HAVE HEARD NOTHING FROM THEM REGARDING MY PROTEST AND REDETERMINATION...IS IT TRUE THAT THE AGENCY HAS AN EIGHT WEEK DEADLINE TO RESPOND BEFORE THEY DEFAULT,WHICH CAUSES THE JUDGEMENT TO AUTOMATICALLY RULE IN MY FAVOR? PLEASE HELP ME!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Tameka, There may be a deadline on agency determinations, but I'm not aware of it. I'll try to do some checking and get back with you. If you can't get anything out of the UIA you might be able to get some help from your state representative or state senator in Lansing. As you might imagine the UIA is very busy (swamped) these days.

Al, I haven't handled any cases like yours. However, common sense tells me that your interpretation is correct and the Agency's is incorrect. If I were you I would appeal the case to an Administrative Law Judge hearing where the Agency's decision will be reviewed. Try to find an advocate who will research the issues carefully and help you present your case. An appeal to an ALJ or to the Board of Review wouldn't cost you anything, and the state will send you a list of claimant advocates.

Al 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds, thank you for your response. I will follow your advice and provide you with the outcome.

TAMEKA HUNT 2 years ago

THANK YOU SO MUCH MR. DEEDS FOR YOUR PROMPT REPLY...I'LL BE WAITING TO SEE WHAT YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT CONCERNING THE AGENCY'S DEADLINE AND DEFAULT.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Tameka, I wasn't able to find any reference to an 8-week deadline or default by the agency other than the 3-year and 6-year periods mentioned in Section (62)(a) of the statute:

"If the commission determines that a person has obtained benefits to which that person is not entitled, the commission may recover a sum equal to the amount received by one or more of the following methods: (1)deduction from benetits payable to the individual, (2)payment by the individual to the commission in cashs or (3)deduction from a tax refund payable to the individual as provided under section 30a of Act No. 122 of the Public Acts of 1941...Deduction from benefits payable to the individual shall be limited to not more than 20% of each weekly benefit check due the claimant. The commission shall not recover improperly paid benefits from an individual more than 3 years, or more than 6 years in the case of a violation of section 54(a) or ((b) or sections 54a to 54c, after the date of the receipt of the improperly paid benefits unless (1) a civil action is filed in court by the commission within the 3-year or 6-year period. (2) the individual made an intentional false statement, misrepresentation or concealment of material information to obtain the benefits, or (3) the commission issued a determination requiring restitution within the 3-year or 6-year period. Furthermore, except in a case of an intentional false statement, misrepresentation, or concealment of material information, the commission may waive recovery of an improperly paid benefit if the payment was not the fault of the individual and if repayment would be contrary to equity and good conscience."

Anna 2 years ago

Hi Ralph,

What are the rules for Michigan UIA for leaving a job that is "unsuitable" within 60 days. I was on the extension and accepted a position that did not disclose that I needed medical experience (it was in their job description) that I received about two weeks after I hired. I re-opened my claim and sent all pertinent information including past work history (reviews) showing that I was a stable worker in my last position and that I didn't have any medical experience. I was told in the interview process that it was not necessary but when I got into the position I found this was not true and I was exposing patients and myself to liability issues. What are my chances of getting the unemployment back? Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.

Anna 2 years ago

Hi Ralph,

I'm sorry, I should have added to this that I resigned after trying to work out a lack of training issues with the company. I gave a resignation letter to the company outlining why I was resigning.

JESSE L KELLY 2 years ago

THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING SITE AS WELL AS INFORMATIVE.I HAVE A QUESTION TO ASK AND I'LL KEEP IT BRIEF.AFTER BEING FIRED FROM MY JOB I WAS DENIED MY UNEMPLOYMENT DUE TO "MISCONDUCT".I APPEALED THE DECISION AND AFTER 5 WEEKS I WAS GRANTED MY BENEFITS BUT I WAS'NT GIVEN BACKPAY FOR THOSE 5 WEEKS.WHAT DO I DO ABOUT THIS.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Mr. Kelly, the answer depends on the reason why you were denied. One common reason for such denials is failure to continue certifying (calling MARVIN). Benefits are not payable for any week or weeks for which the claimant fails to certify.

Anna, here's what the statute says about suitability

Section 29(5) In determining whether work is suitable for an individual, the commission shall consider the degree of risk involved to the individual's health, safety, and morals, the individual's physical fitness and prior training, the individual's length of unemployment and prospects for securing local work in the individual's customary occupation, and the distance of the available work from the individual's residence. Additionally, thecommission shall consider the individual's experience and prior earnings, but an unemployed individual who refuses an offer of work determined to be suitable under this section shall be denied benefits if the pay rate for that work is at least 70% of the gross pay rate he or she received immediately before becoming unemployed.

and

29(1)(a) [An individual is disqualified from benefits if he or she:

(a) Left work voluntarily without good cause attributable to the employer or employing unit. An individual claiming benefits under this act has the burden of proof to establish that he or she left work involuntarily or for good cause that was attributable to the employer or employing unit. HOWEVER, IF THE INDIVIDUAL HAS AN ESTABLISHED BENEFIT YEAR IN EFFECT AND DURING THAT BENEFIT YEAR LEAVES UNSUITABLE WORK WITHING 60 DAYS AFTER THE BEGINNING OF THAT WORK, THE LEAVING DOES NOT DISQUALIFY THAT INDIVIDUAL.

COMMENT: It appears to me that the agency didn't agree that the work was unsuitable. That is, you don't get a free pass for 60 days but if you can convince the agency that the job was unsuitable and you leave withing 60 days you are eligible. After 60 days it's much harder to leave a job and get benefits. If you have some time you may want to go to the link (above on this website) to the Board of Review's Digest of Court decisions on UC and look up some cases that dealt with suitability. From what you said it sounds to me like you have a good case for unsuitability.

JESSE L KELLY 2 years ago

BUT THATS JUST THE THING. FROM THE TIME I APPLIED UP UNTIL I WAS FINALLY APPROVED, I FILED EVERY WEEK.AM I TO APPEAL THIS MATTER AS WELL.I NEVER RECIEVED A LETTER OR ANY NOTIFICATION SAYING I WAS DENIED BACKPAY, I JUST NEVER RECIEVED COMPENSATION FOR IT.

Anna 2 years ago

Hi Ralph,

Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it. I left this position after 30 days because I couldn't get the proper training to fulfill the qualifications of the position. I went through the proper grievance channels at the workplace. I still have a benefit year in effect. I haven't received a determination yet because it just happened. I received a form requesting information on why I resigned and I sent them a lot of documentation. I sent them documentation showing that the position required medical training too. I'm hoping that will help make the determination. Thanks again for your help. I really think you have a great site and you help people with your expertise.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Sounds to me like you stand a good chance of convincing an administrative law judge that your job was unsuitable. If the redetermination goes against you I recommend you appeal to an administrative law judge hearing.

anna 2 years ago

Hi Ralph,

Thank you so much for your help. I was feeling rather alone about this and will appeal it if it does go against me. I really appreciate your experience and insight.

Cari D 2 years ago

can I attend college while receiving unemployment benefits in Michigan?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

There is no black or white answer to this question. Under certain circumstances it's possible to attend college while receiving unemployment compensation. You must be able to convince the unemployment agency that you are available and seeking work and willing to adjust your academic schedule, if necessary to accept an offer of suitable employment.

Also, you may be able to get a waiver of availability for certain types of training. I'm not sure what the details and procedures are for this.

southerngurl 2 years ago

Hi Ralph, I actually have a question. I live in fl and after 11 and a half years i was terminated from my job. I was initially accused of theft and was put through rigorous interogation and humiliation by a loss prevention specialist. The allegation was totally false and by the end of the interview, could not be proven. I was understandably upset and asked if i was fired, I was told that a decision had to be made regarding my job and to call my store manager in 24 hours. It actually became 48 hours before I was told that i was terminated. I assume that because the false allegations against me could not be substaniated, they in turn fired me for misconduct. What do you think my chances of winning bennefits are? Thanks in advance for any and all info that you can provide.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

It's hard for me to tell without reading the case file and seeing what the company is saying. In Michigan and I'm sure in Florida the burden is on the employer to prove a charge of misconduct. The definition of misconduct in Michigan is "wanton or wilful disregard of the employer's interest," either in a single serious incident or in accumulated minor instances (e.g. habitual absenteeism or tardiness). Some retail establishments have a rather broad and inclusive definition of theft covering actions which may or may not constitute theft under the law. Sorry I can't be more specific. You have nothing to lose by filing for benefits and appealing if you get an adverse determination from the unemployment agency. Good luck.

tkowens1971 2 years ago

....

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

tkowens, did you have a question or comment?

Victoria - In Michigan 2 years ago

Hello Mr. Deeds. I first want to say that I have asked a question or two before and you have given me great advice.

Here is my current question. I have 6 weeks of EUC left and then I am hoping to get EB after that. I am also thinking about attending college, but it is an online college. I was wondering if it is possible to get EB while attending college full time??? It is an online college so I can get on there 24/7 and still be able to seek work and hopefully soon be working.

Thanks again.

Victoria - In Michigan

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I don't see why not. You have to be able to certify that you are seeking work and available for suitable work while you are taking on-line courses. Good luck!

Alan 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I have one more quick question. When i was laid off i took a Lump Sum Distribution from my 401K plan. I am fairly sure i contributed less than half of the money in the plan. (employer contributed matching funds and profit sharing) + my contributions.

My question is do i report this to UIA? I talked to someone at UIA months ago, and told them i withdrew my 401K (claimants relations hotline), but they didn't tell me to report it and i did ask.

Looking at the new green book, it is saying something under Pensions and IRA's that if you contribute less than half you need to report it.

It also says something about if "if an employer you worked for in the base period of your claim paid you a retirement benefit......"

Does this mean that UIA just counts payments they made during your last 18 months you report earnings for or is this over the whole period of your claim stretching back to the very beginning?

Is a profit sharing contribution to your 401K considered as a retirement benefit paid by your employer (we were forced to put profit sharing in the 401k)

Thank you

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I've never researched the subject of 401k distributions, but I don't think a 401k distribution of your savings would affect your eligibility for unemployment compensation.

mike s 2 years ago

I was laid off from work in may. The location of my work closed its doors. I took this job because it was close to my home. Now they are trying to take away my benefits because they want me to work over 50 miles from my house at their other location. It isnt very reasonable for me to drive 100 miles to work for less than 25k a year. should i worry about my benefits?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

If you live in Michigan, in my opinion, you should not necessarily be disqualified from benefits for declining an offer of a job 50 miles away from your home. However, distance is a bit of a gray area as you can see from the case cited below. As far as I know there is no automatic distance limit for travel to work.

The appellate court ruled in Gilliam v. Chrysler Corp 72 Mich App 538 (1976):

"In determining the suitability of offered work, the loss of recall rights to local work must be considered. Further, a job is not automatically suitable because the distance is less than 45 miles.

"In determining whether distance makes a job offer unsuitable the commission, referee and appeal board should consider where relevant, the age and health of the individual employee, the hours during which travel will be required, the time involved in traveling, traffic conditions and availability and reliability of a means of transportation, as well as other facts which may relate to the distance factor and its bearing upon the suitability of the employment.

And in Korhonen v Brown and Winckler the Ingham appellate court held that the claimant who lived in Northville was not disqualified for refusing an offer of work in Lansing, 75 miles away.

mike s 2 years ago

thank you so much for your incite!

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Good luck!

Pam 2 years ago

Hi Ralph, I was let go from my company back in April and have been on severance and will continue to be on severance till Nov. I have been notified today that the company that let me go now wants to hire me through a temp agency for about 60 days. My question is if I take the temp position and once that position is over it will be about the time for me to file for unemployment---who would I file the unemployment against--my original company of 16 years or the temp agency of 60 days? I am scared that when I file, UIA will base my wages off the temp job (which is paying much less). I am just wondering if it is even worth it to work as a temp, since I am still on severance - or if I will mess up any claim on unemployment.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I'm not sure of the answer to your question. I'll try to do some research tomorrow or over the weekend.

[If you are hired through or by a temp agency you must be sure to contact the agency promptly when your assignment comes to an end or you will be treated under the statute as a quit and ineligible for benefits. Many temp agencies disqualify people for failing to contact them and inform them their assignment has ended even though they are fully aware the assignment has come to an end. Just one of their little tricks and traps.]

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Pam, I don't believe that working 60 days for a temp agency at a lower rate would affect your benefits. Here's what the agency says about calculating benefit amounts:

"Benefit Year

"If the UA determines that the worker had enough wages to set up a claim, then benefits on that claim are payable during the 52-week period that usually begins the week the worker files the claim.

"Weekly Benefity Amount

"The UA will find the calendar quarter in the base period (the first 4 of the last 5 completed calendar quarters) in which the worker had the highest wages. This wage amount is then multiplied by 4.1% (.041). To that result, $6 will be added for each dependent allowed, up to 5 dependents. the result will be the worker's weekly benefit amount. However, the amount may not exceed $362."

One note of caution, however: If the temp agency offered you another assignment at another employer after you completed the 60 days at your former employer, and you declined that offer, the temp agency and your former employer might be tempted to contest your eligitility because you "declined an offer of suitable employment." Although an offer at at a significantly lower wage might not have been suitable had you not accepted the 60-day assignment, it might be considered suitable by virtue of the fact that you accepted and worked at the lower rate for 60 days. So far as I know this is a gray area. I'm unable to predict whether either employer would protest your eligibility or how the agency would rule if they did. In my opinion, suitability should be based on your normal earnings at your former employer, not your earnings for 60 days at the temp agency.

The case nearest your situation is Jarvis (Peoples State Bank, 1982 Br 78618 (B81 08578).

BOARD OF REVIEW HOLDING: A claimant may refuse an offer of work without disqualification if acceptance of the offered work would result in an immediate and substantial economic loss.

FACTS: Claimant worked for the employer as a full-time bank teller for eight years. Her full-time status entitled her to a package of fringe benefits, including paid vacation, medical insurance, sick pay and a pension plan. As a result of a merger and consolidation of offices, claimant's full-time position was eliminated. While still on the employer's payroll she was offered a part-time position without fringe benefits, which she refused.

DECISION: Claimant is not disqualified for refusal of work.

RATIONALE: When evaluating a refusal of work situation, the suitability of the work, in light of various factors, including prior earnings, must be considered. "[The claimant was not yet unemployed when she refused the offer of part-time work. She was under no duty to bury her financial sights instantaneously. We hold that the offered work was unsuitable. By excluding paid vacations, medical insurance, life insurance, sick leave and participation in a pension plan, the offer was immediately and substantially below the claimant's prior earnings."

[Note: The longer you are out of work, the lower the Agency's definition of suitability becomes. ]

Anita O 2 years ago

I worked for the president of a medical recruiting agency. On several occasions, she publicly accused me of stealing from her, using her credit card for personal use, making personal, out of state phone calls on company phones and lying to her. Although each accusation proved to be false, she never apologized. She also gossiped to other employees about me, made fun of my voice, my clothing (I dressed very professionally), my hair. She micro-managed everything I did ("why are you putting the paper in the copier that way?"). Needless to say, I was a nervous wreck. If I could have documented this behavior, would I have been eligible for unemployment if I had quit? Is there someone I could have complained to? She was the owner of the company.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

The basic rule is that a reasonable person finds another job before resigning the one he or she has. There are a number of clear exceptions: uncorrected unsafe working conditions, being asked to do something dishonest or illegal, sexual harassment, discrimination because of race, religion, etc. In most cases the employee is expected to complain and give the employer a chance to correct the problem. In your case this requirement would not apply because the person who is harassing you is the owner.

My assessment of your case, based on what you've said, is that your case is in a gray area. For me you have had ample cause attributable to your employer for quitting. Proving that to an administrative law judge might be difficult, especially if your boss comes to the hearing and doesn't tell the truth. Good luck.

Mike 2 years ago

Dear Mr. Deeds, My wife has been collecting umemployment for about 9 months now. She has been applying for jobs but she is having no luck. I want her to go back to school. She is interested in being a phlebotomist. It is a six week program, and then another six weeks of internship with no pay. Can she still collect unemployment and go to school? Also is there any assistance she can recieve?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Mike, I'm not completely up to speed on the effect of going to school on eligibility for benefits. There are procedures for obtaining advance approval for taking certain courses and getting a waiver of availability for and seeking work. Beyond that there are court cases which say that attending classes does not automatically disqualify a claimant from benefits so long as they certify that they are continuing to seek work and are willing to accept a job offer and adjust their class schedule around their work hours. This is a bit of a gray area. I believe there is information on the UIA website linked above on how to get approval for training without losing eligibility.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Mike here's an item on training from an article in the Detroit News 8-31-09 which may be of interest to you.

The waiting lines are mounting for job training and tuition under the state's 2-year-old No Worker Left Behind program because there are more applicants than dollars.

While applications are being processed across most of the state, there are waiting lists in western Wayne and Monroe counties, said Andy Levin, deputy director of the Department of Energy, Labor and Economic Growth. Most of the program is financed with federal grant money, and the state applied to the U.S. Department of Labor for $58 million in late June to address the need, Levin said. Officials are waiting for an answer.

People will be put into training as money becomes available, he added.

One contractor in southeastern Michigan who is handling No Worker Left Behind benefit requests erroneously sent e-mails to applicants earlier this month saying there is no money for the program, Levin said. He added that the Southeast Michigan Community Alliance, which is running the program in Wayne and Monroe counties, neglected to set up a waiting list.

"We're not sure why that happened, but it has been taken care of," he said.

Under the program, laid-off workers can get up to $10,000 for two years of tuition at a community college, four-year university or other approved training program. About 88,000 people have enrolled, Gov. Jennifer Granholm has said.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090831/METRO/9083

monique 2 years ago

hi. i have been on unemployment for a few months and cannot find work. so i signed up for no worker left behind and they gave me a date of october14th.. school started last week. so i decided to apply for fafsa on my own and got awarded. i started school and have an appointment later this week with a mich works agent to file my waiver info. i am supposed to call marvin in the morning and do not know how i should answer the question of recieving money or starting school??? i have not recieved aanymoney but i dontknow if they consider the pell for my classes money? and if i havent been to but 1 class i know that doesnt count of the full time i am scheduled for yet. so would it be wrong to say no to these questions just this week till i get the waiver at the end of the week? i dont want to get in trouble but i also dont want to get my benefit held up! please help with advise!!! thank you kindly

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Monique, I'm sorry but I don't know the answer to your questions. Perhaps you could get some help from the people at No Worker Left Behind, Michigan Works or one of the UIA phone lines if you can get through. Sorry I can't be of more help. Good luck!

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

LOW WAGE WORKERS OFTEN CHEATED BY EMPLOYERS, STUDY SAYS

By STEVEN GREENHOUSE

Published: September 1, 2009

Low-wage workers are routinely denied proper overtime pay and are often paid less than the minimum wage, according to a new study based on a survey of workers in New York, Los Angeles and Chicago.

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Less Than the MinimumGraphic

Less Than the Minimum

The study, the most comprehensive examination of wage-law violations in a decade, also found that 68 percent of the workers interviewed had experienced at least one pay-related violation in the previous work week.

“We were all surprised by the high prevalence rate,” said Ruth Milkman, one of the study’s authors and a sociology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, and the City University of New York. The study, to be released on Wednesday, was financed by the Ford, Joyce, Haynes and Russell Sage Foundations.

In surveying 4,387 workers in various low-wage industries, including apparel manufacturing, child care and discount retailing, the researchers found that the typical worker had lost $51 the previous week through wage violations, out of average weekly earnings of $339. That translates into a 15 percent loss in pay.

The researchers said one of the most surprising findings was how successful low-wage employers were in pressuring workers not to file for workers’ compensation. Only 8 percent of those who suffered serious injuries on the job filed for compensation to pay for medical care and missed days at work stemming from those injuries.

“The conventional wisdom has been that to the extent there were violations, it was confined to a few rogue employers or to especially disadvantaged workers, like undocumented immigrants,” said Nik Theodore, an author of the study and a professor of urban planning and policy at the University of Illinois, Chicago. “What our study shows is that this is a widespread phenomenon across the low-wage labor market in the United States.”

According to the study, 39 percent of those surveyed were illegal immigrants, 31 percent legal immigrants and 30 percent native-born Americans.

The study found that 26 percent of the workers had been paid less than the minimum wage the week before being surveyed and that one in seven had worked off the clock the previous week. In addition, 76 percent of those who had worked overtime the week before were not paid their proper overtime, the researchers found.

The new study, “Broken Laws, Unprotected Workers,” was conducted in the first half of 2008, before the brunt of the recession hit. The median wage of the workers surveyed was $8.02 an hour — supervisors were not surveyed — with more than three-quarters of those interviewed earning less than $10 an hour. When the survey was conducted, the minimum wage was $7.15 in New York State, $7.50 in Illinois and $8 in California.

Labor Secretary Hilda L. Solis responded to the report with an e-mail statement, saying, “There is no excuse for the disregard of federal labor standards — especially those designed to protect the neediest among us.” Ms. Solis said she was in the process of hiring 250 more wage-and-hour investigators. “Today’s report clearly shows we still have a major task before us,” she said.

The study’s authors noted that many low-wage employers comply with wage and labor laws. The National Federation of Independent Business, which represents small-business owners, said it encouraged members “to stay in compliance with state and federal labor laws.”

But many small businesses say they are forced to violate wage laws to remain competitive.

The study found that women were far more likely to suffer minimum wage violations than men, with the highest prevalence among women who were illegal immigrants. Among American-born workers, African-Americans had a violation rate nearly triple that for whites.

“These practices are not just morally reprehensible, but they’re bad for the economy,” said Annette Bernhardt, an author of the study and policy co-director of the National Employment Law Project. “When unscrupulous employers break the law, they’re robbing families of money to put food on the table, they’re robbing communities of spending power and they’re robbing governments of vital tax revenues.”

When the Russell Sage Foundation announced a grant to help finance the survey, it said that low-wage workers were “hard to find” for interviews and that “government compliance surveys shy away from the difficult task of measuring workplace practices beyond the standard wage, benefits and hours questions.”

The report found that 57 percent of workers sampled had not received mandatory pay documents the previous week, which are intended to help make sure pay is legal and accurate. Of workers who receive tips, 12 percent said their employer had stolen some of the tips.

One in five workers reported having lodged a complaint about wages to their employer or trying to form a union in the previous year, and 43 percent of them said they had experienced some form of illegal retaliation, like firing or suspension, the study said.

In instances when workers’ compensation should have been used, the study found, one third of workers injured on the job paid the bills for treatment out of their own pocket and 22 percent used their health insurance. Workers’ compensation insurance paid medical expenses for only 6 percent of the injured workers surveyed, the researchers found.

Elia 2 years ago

Dear Ralph,

I was so glad to find your website I was denied unemployment and appealed and been waiting three months for the process a lawyer recommended I contact the board of review to speed it up how do I contact them?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

You can write the Board of Review at 611 West Ottawa Street, P.O. Box 30475, Lansing, Michigan 48909. Also the Board has an 800 number: 1-800-738-6372. (I'm not sure whether they will respond to telephone inquiries or not.) Also you could write to or call your state senator or representative's office for help speeding up your case. Most of state reps have people in their office who know how to contact the UIA or Board of Review about delays in decisions on cases. They are all very busy, but it seems to me that three months is a long time.

Elia 2 years ago

Thank you so much

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

If you think of it let us know if you are able to find out anything or get any help and how you got it.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Here's a link to an article in today's NYTimes about the uncounted unemployed:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/07/us/07worker.html

Carolyn 2 years ago

Dear Mr. Deed ~ I’m so fortunate finding your website. I was a program manager with one client in auto industry. Due to the economy, the client cancelled our contract this year so my employer laid me off in June and collected unemployment in July. During this time, I went on internal interviews with my ex-employer for a purchasing position but the hiring manager told me the position is on hold. My boss told me the only position available in the company was a Receiving Attendant in Phoenix AZ making half the salary and a vague mention of becoming program manager in near future. I panicked not having a job so I accepted it in August. After accepting AZ position, my employer moved two internal candidates in the purchasing positions. With over 10yrs of experience, a Masters degree I felt I was a stronger candidate. I made a big mistake taking this job offer. Can I quit this position and get unemployment in Michigan because it’s unsuitable position? Do I have any recourse?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Carolyn, that's a tough one. Quit cases (voluntary leaving) are the hardest to win. The law presumes that a reasonable person will keep the job he or she has until finding another one UNLESS the employer does something that would cause a reasonable person to quit ("good cause attributable to the employer"). Good cause can be a substantial reduction in pay or benefits, asking the employee to do something illegal, dishonest or unsafe or other serious reasons.

Another legal requirement for eligibility for benefits when quitting is that the employee must complain about the issue and give the employer an opportunity to correct the problem BEFORE quitting. Your case would be better if you complained to your employer and gave it the opportunity to take appropriate action before quitting. Any time you resign there is a risk of losing your eligibility. However, Section 29(1)(a) of the unemployment statute provides as follows: "However, if the individual has an established benefit year in effect and during that benefit year leaves unsuitable work withing 60 days after the beginning of that work, the leaving does not disqualify the individual."

I hesitate to predict whether you would be ruled eligible or ineligible by the Unemployment Insurance Agency. I think you should be eligible because the job you accepted in Arizona appears to be unsuitable because of the substantial reduction in pay. If you decide to quit, before you do soyou should make your dissatisfaction with the pay and job assignment and your belief that you were treated unfairly because you are more qualified than the people who got the purchasing positions and see what the employer says. You would have to act quickly to be within the 60-day limit. If the agency rules against you, you should request a redetermination. And if that goes against you you should request a hearing before an administrative law judge. In the meantime you should continue to call MARVIN in accordance with the Agency's procedures. Again, I am not sure what the result will be. I was unable to find a court decision that matched your circumstances and I've not had experience with such a case. Good luck.

carolyn 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds, Many thanks for responding quickly. I realize I have a small window to be reinstated with the 60 day limit. I started the position in AZ on August 1st I stopped calling Marvin. Will this change my eligibility?

Who should I contact to be reinstated? I don't have any of my paperwork with me in AZ and unable to get online with MARVIN.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

You may be able to find the answer on the UIA website. It's hard to get through on the telephone lines. Perhaps the Internet would work. I'm not sure. (I've never done it.)

http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--206553--

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Rep. Levin Calls for Extension of Unemployment Benefits

Lawmakers return to Washington from their districts this week. One of the top priorities for the House and Senate will be to extend federal unemployment insurance benefits to hard-hit states like Michigan. Rep. Levin and 22 other members of the House have introduced legislation to provide for another 13 weeks in states with unemployment over 9 percent.

In a recent interview with the Detroit News, Rep. Levin noted that we have a historically high number of people who are out of work and running out of unemployment benefits. “The prediction is that if we don’t act, about 100,000 Michiganders are going to exhaust their benefits by the end of the year. And that figure nationally is 1.5 million people.... There are more people who have been unemployed for longer than six months in this recession than at any time since when they first calculated that in 1948,” said Rep. Levin.

Click here to read the Detroit News Article entire interview. The article also featured a Question and Answer segment with Rep. Levin providing the supporting side here and James Sherk providing the opposing side here.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Here's quite a good article with tips for job interviews-

"Subtle Clues Can Tell An Interviewer 'Pick Me' by Phyllis Korkki in the NY Times 9-13-09.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/jobs/13search.ht

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Detroit News Editorial September 14, 2009

Editorial: Congress should continue jobless benefits

Congress should continue unemployment benefits and provide relief on crippling taxes

Nearly 100,000 Michigan residents stand to lose their unemployment benefits at year's end. Congress is working to extend those benefits and should do so. But Michigan businesses also have an unemployment crisis. They face hundreds of millions of dollars in new unemployment taxes and penalties in the next few years that could damage their recovery and slow the hiring of new workers.

It's a vicious circle that only Congress can fix.

Normally, laid-off workers are entitled to 26 weeks of unemployment insurance. The cost of this insurance is covered by a tax levied by the state on all firms. Because of the severity of this recession, Congress has adopted special unemployment benefits covered from the federal treasury for workers. Together, employer-paid and federal benefits now add up to 79 weeks of unemployment coverage.

In addition, the federal government added $25 per week to the jobless pay determined by each state. The $25 in extra pay expires in June, while a portion of the federal unemployment benefits ends next year also.

Separate congressional bills, one in the House supported by U.S. Rep. Sander Levin, D-Royal Oak, and one in the Senate backed by Michigan Democrats Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow, would add 13 weeks to the total jobless pay available, continue the earlier extensions through all of 2010 and maintain the additional $25 in jobless pay through the balance of 2010 as well.

The benefits should be extended. Michigan families are struggling, and the unemployment benefits could well be the only thing staving off economic disaster for them.

Michigan businesses also face a crisis. Because the state has depleted its unemployment fund, it has been borrowing from the federal government. Michigan now owes $2.5 billion, exceeded only by California's debt at $3.3 billion. Beginning next year, Michigan firms will have to pay penalty taxes to reduce the federal loan. The additional unemployment taxes will be $74 million in 2010, $158 million in 2011 and $206 million in 2012.

This could have a devastating effect on hiring because these taxes are levied against the salaries companies pay each worker. They are thus a huge disincentive to putting more people on the payroll.

If Congress is interested in an economic stimulus that could really reduce unemployment, it will offer some sort of relief on this loan. These proposals are much more likely to allow workers to keep their homes and companies to recover and grow than any new pork-barrel projects floating around Congress and deserve quick action.

Renetta 2 years ago

Hi Ralph,

If a company calls you and wants to interview you for a commission based position only, do you have to interview for it or will you be disqualified from Unemployment benefits if you don't accept the interview? Thanks.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Renetta, Declining the interview would likely be a strike against you. If you appeared for the interview and got an offer the issue would become whether the job was "suitable" or not and whether you would be justified in turning the offer down. Commission jobs are not, per se, unsuitable. It's possible that you could determine that the job was "unsuitable" as defined by the statute without going to an interview based on information already available to you. In that case if you end up in a dispute over your elibility, the burden would be on you to convince the Agency and appeals judge that the job was unsuitable, based on your prior work experience and wages and your education and training. An excessively long commute to work could also be a factor in determining unsuitablity.

Renetta 2 years ago

Hi Ralph,

I appreciate your help on this. I wasn't sure because I've never had a commission based position before. Thanks again for your help.

Kim 2 years ago

Mr.Deeds

My husband was fired from his job in July for turning down work and applyed for benfits. he was denied. reason you have done this work in the past.

So he protested it.the thing is we live 110 miles one way from where he worked we didnt have the money for him to go ( hes a truck driver he wouldve needed gas money and money for food while he was out)they called at the last min.and offered him a run that wouldve only been 40% of his pay that he would normally wouldve got since protested it what do you think the out come would be he protested this a 3 weeks ago

kimmi73 2 years ago

I wrote the above question didnt sign up until after. i also wanted to add that the employer told him he needed to find away to work. we tried and finally found someone to borrow money from when he called back not even 20 mins later they told him it was to late also they never gave him any warning he has never called it or was late for work

i just hope this time its a favor on our side its tuff out there when you have kids to support

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Kimmi73. In my opinion, your husband should be eligible for benefits because the job was unsuitable--the pay was too low and the distance too far. If he gets an unfavorable determination and redetermination, he should appeal it to an administrative law judge. In the meantime keep calling MARVIN to certify in accordance with UIA procedures.

kimmi73 2 years ago

Thanks im hoping the out come will be good. He just started a job Monday the 21st he wont get paid til the 9th. Now if hes eligible will he still get that back from july until recent he calls marvin again on the 28th

How long does this normally take for them to make a decssion

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I'm not sure. They are very busy and appear to be taking several weeks.

Jess 2 years ago

What does available for work mean?

Hi I applied for umemployment benefits about 6 weeks ago so far I have qualified for benefits. I have been looking for work mostly on craigslist and Michigan works. I also have been to places and most of them have not been accepting applications and said they are not hiring. Well I heard that if you are getting unemployment your supposed to keep a record of places the places that you applied to. Is this true because I haven't been keeping track until now. So today I printed up a list of some of the places I sent my resume to on michigan works etc.

Is it bad if you haven't been keeping track of businesses that you inquired at for work or applied to online? Thanks for your help:)

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I think you'll be okay although it's a good idea to keep a record documenting your job search. While you are receiving unemployment compensation the statute requires you to be "available" and "seeking" "suitable" employment. Available means that you are available to accept a job offer. Seeking means that you are looking for a job. Suitable means a job for which you are qualified based on your previous training and experience.

StevenCavendish profile image

StevenCavendish 2 years ago

It is sad who valuable this information is to many people now. Well done and thank you to Ralph for making this information available and well wishes to anyone who is currently looking for work.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Thanks for your comment, Steven.

Jess 2 years ago

Thanks so much for your help Ralph I really appreciate it;) I was wondering how many work contacts you should have per week you claim. The unemployment book doesn't give a specific amount. Some days I will send out three resumes and then the next day none because I don't always have access to the internet phone etc. I heard from a friend that they want you to have a contact each day. So I was wondering what the exact number per week or day was

Also I received a determinatinon in the mail that said I qualified for unemployment because I was fired for a violation of company policy and not gross misconduct. It said my employer didn't provide evidence to suggest misconduct. My boss always tries to get out of paying unemployment and he always fights everyone to make it hard for them. How long do you think it will take me to find out if he's trying to fight me or not. The paper was mailed out Septemper 3 and it will be 30 days around Oct 3. But still I heard it can take weeks or months to find out if a former employer is trying to fight your claim. Is their a way I could find out sooner if he wrote a letter of protest or not.

also my friend Odessa was getting unemployment from him for a couple months then all of a sudden she got a letter in the mail saying she was disqualifed because my boss lied and said she quit and wasn't fired. He also lied about other things so I'm paranoid that the same thing will happen to me:( Well thanks for your help I love your site:)

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Jess, you should find out within a month or two whether your employer requested a redetermination. If the redetermination is not in your favor you should request a hearing before an administrative law judge. You may wait a month or so before a hearing is scheduled. In the meantime keep calling MARVIN to certify in accordance with Agency procedures until your case is settled. The administrative law judges usually issue their decisions within a week.

I'm not aware that there is a minimum number of calls or contacts required to prove you are available and seeking work. I would say whatever seems reasonable. And make notes in a log notebook every time you make a contact. You could even clip newspaper want ads that you called.

If Odessa didn't quit she should request a redetermination and, if necessary a hearing before an administrative law judge. In the meantime she should continue to certify until all appeals are settled.

NOTE: My comments are based on my experience in Michigan. Unemployment compensation procedures vary somewhat from state to state.

Good luck to you both!

Kayleigh 2 years ago

Mr Deeds

I would greatly appreciate any help you can offer. I was terminated from my job of 4 years for a mistake I made. I agree, I did not use my best judgement. I was 'filling in' for the manager while she was out of town. I was the asst. manager a few years before but did not hold any sort of title. I knew the paperwork and how to do the banking so I was trying to give my new boss a break. Long story short, my vehicle broke down and I locked the deposit in the trunk of my car. The deposit(from Sat and sun) did not make it to the bank until Monday afternoon. There was no issue of theft, the deposit DID make it in its entirety. The owner's son (Im not sure of his title, but he's very involved in the business) told my manager to write me up and forget about it. I worked the next 2 days. When the owner decided to make a visit to the store, he asked why I hadn't been terminated and if the manager wanted to keep her job, she would have to terminate me immediately. I recieved 2 inquiry forms before I was awarded a determination (It took nearly 9 weeks to receieve any benefits) and I told the complete truth and also pointed out, if the owner was so concerned, why was I allowed to work 2 additional days? I was awarded benefits 6/17/2009. It is now 9/28/2009 and I recieved 2 letters in the mail, both Notice of Restitution.

One says

"xxx Timely protested the determination issued 6/17/2009. You were discharged for failure to take a 5000.00 deposit to the bank or lock it in the safe overnight. Your car broke down and you lock the deposit in the trunk of your car and did not make an attempt to contact the manager. Your actions was a disregard of the employers interest. You are disqualified under sec 29 (1) (b) of the MES act. The determination is reversed. Restitution is due." and also talks about a rework requirement. "Claimant must pay to the agency restitution in the amount of 3979.00 Under 62A"

The second letter, which was issued the same day and has all the same numbers, states this.

"

You were paid federal additional compensation payments of 25.00 effective w/e 5/2/09 based on benefits paid to you under the unemployment insurance (UI) unemployment compensation program. You were not entitled to recieve these payments, therefore, additional restitution is required under section 62 of the MES act.

Claiment is not disqualified for benefits RE: Misrepresentation, None Found.

It is redetermined that claiment did not intentionally make a flase statement or misrepresentation or conceal material information in order to obtain benefits to which not entitled. Caliment must pay the agency (500.00) under section 62a.

I am so absolutely confused on what these mean, do I owe both of these, or do they counteract each other? Why am I just hearing this now? What is my next couse of action, and do I have a chance of losing a case? I looked up the law as best I could and found that "an isolated case of bad judgement or negligence, then the worker will not be disqualified from recieveing unemployment benefits. Could you please help? Thank you very much.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

It's hard to tell what happened without reading your case file. It sounds to me as if the Unemployment Insurance Agency's left hand didn't know what it's right hand was doing. Keep calling MARVIN (Michigan) and certifying in accordance with Agency procedures. Call the agency as requested and try to get the restitution matter straightened out. I don't believe you owe any restitution under Section 62(a) because the redetermination found that you were not guilty of misconduct because there was no intent on your part to disregard the interest of your employer and as well because your failure to make a timely deposit was an isolated incident due to circumstances beyond your control. You may wish to go to one of the Agency's Problem Resolution Offices to discuss the matter face-to-face with a representative of the Agency. The locations of the offices can be found on the Agency's website linked above. Good luck!

Kayleigh 2 years ago

I spoke to the UA today and found out bad news. The letters indicate that, while I was not disqualified for misrepresentation, I still owe the original restitution and also the 500.00 for the economic stimulus payments. I sent my appeal today, but the lady said it would take another 6 to 8 weeks for a redetermination. And THEN I may get an advocate. This hardly seems fair, and a complete disregard for the people this agency is intended to help. So while I become homeless because my A** H*** former employer wants to be cheap, even though he knows he is in the wrong, there is not a single thing I can do about it. I think you should be able to hold the employer responsible in cases like this. Or even the person who makes such an obvious mistake. For someone like myself, a 23 year old with no family left able to help me out, who lost her place to live the FIRST time I had to wait 9 weeks for any money, and has been staying with a friend who can no longer afford to let me stay here..I can't see how there are no laws in place to protect people like me. I've worked since I was 15. People in prison have more protection and rights than I do. Sorry, just wanted to share my feelings. Thank you very much for your information Ralph, you are very helpful for alot of people.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Kayleigh, you have my sympathy but I don't have any ideas other than possibly contacting your state representative or senator's office and asking for their help. Most of them have somebody in the office who knows who to call in the Unemployment Agency about cases like yours. Also, it's good for them to hear first hand about what's wrong with the system. In defense of the UIA, they are the busiest they've been in a long time, perhaps ever, and they just don't have the manpower to keep up with the load. Don't forget to keep calling MARVIN to certify until your case has been settled.

Good luck!

Matt 2 years ago

I have a question about the new 13 week extention that they were trying to pass but failed recently. I am unemployed in Michigan and my EUC will run out in early 2010 and then I will collect the 20 weeks of EB if I can't find work. This new 13 week extention that was talked about but failed to pass the senate will add 13 weeks onto the 20 weeks of EB? Is there some sort of date that you would have to sign up by in order to receive these extra weeks? My 20 weeks of EB would run out during the first week of June 2010 or so. Thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I'm not sure of the answer. I'm pretty sure the Unemployment Insurance Agency will automatically notify you of any extended benefits to which you are entitled. Sorry I can't provide a more definite answer.

Nancy 2 years ago

THANK YOU MR.DEEDS!!!! I have been following this hub for over a year and had followed your advice on appealing to the Board of Review. After 8 months of waiting,I finally rec'd a decision and they reversed the ALJ's decision! I had also taken your advice on contacting my State Rep. to help with the time frame and they tried but were no help. Now will I receive all those weeks of unemployment that I have called into Marvin and how long should that take to receive my back pay of benefits?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I'm not sure how long it will take. Not more than a couple of weeks is my best guess.

Sharon T 2 years ago

Hi, I just received a letter from TX unemployment stating I have been disqualified for 6 weeks b/c I quit my job to move with my spouse (within TX but 5 hours from my position). It says I can apply for benefits again when my 6 week disqualification has ended. I'm confused. Does this mean I will receive benefits after 6 weeks, or I might receive benefits after 6 weeks. Will I have to go through the whole application process again? Or just keep requesting payments every 2 weeks even though I'm not receiving anything? I'm not sure what I need to do...

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

My knowledge of unemployment compensation law is based on my experience in Michigan. So, I'm sorry I'm not able to answer your question. You should try to get in touch with somebody in the Texas unemployment insurance agency.

Good luck.

Jason 2 years ago

Hi Ralph, back in August I had to go an ALJ hearing against my ex-employer, who was appealing by benefits. My advocate (whom you referred) and I won the decision.

The ALJ hearing was very one-sided, and the ALJ even seemed annoyed that my employer was fighting me over this. I received the decision the very next day.

I received a notice last week that my ex-employer is now appealing the decision to the Board of Review. How concerned should I be over this, and should I take any action? My advocate has not contacted me about it, even though, according to the notice, a transcript was mailed to him.

-Jason

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Without reading the decision it's hard to say how concerned you should be. The Board, more often than not, does not reverse ALJ decisions. Some ALJs have better batting averages with the Board of Review than others. You may want to discuss this with your advocate after he's had a chance to read the transcript. (However, the Advocacy program no longer pays for work on appeals.)

carolyn 2 years ago

Hi Mr Deeds: I sent you an email about my situation a few weeks ago. You said mine it tough case cause quitting (voluntary leaving) are the hardest to win. Well I quit my job within 60 calendar days so I attempt to requalify for unemployment benefits. UIA sent me a form to complete. Below are my answers:

Responses to questions:

1) What was the last day that you worked? 9/28/09

2) Did you quit due to dissatisfaction with job? The position was "unsuitable work" primarily due to location and substantial reduction in pay. I went there to try the job hoping there would be another opportunity within the company. I would otherwise turn down this type of job because my qualifications, earning ability, and the like. Furthermore, this position was unfit while attempting to obtain employment commensurate with my educational and professional career objectives.

3) Did you quit due to dissatisfaction with wages? Yes, it was a substantial reduction, a forty-five (45) percent decrease in wages.

4) Did you quit to dissatisfaction with hours? No

5) Did you try to resolve your problem prior to leaving? Explain how, and what were the results? I met numerous times with my boss about my situation so to give my ex-employer an opportunity to correct the problem before quitting. I made my dissatisfaction with the pay, job assignment and being treated unfairly known to management as well.

6) Provide any addition facts regarding this separation. Before accepting the storeroom attendant position, I had two internal interviews for a corporate strategic purchasing position in April. I received excellent feedback from VP of Supply Chain on both interviews relating to my experience and qualifications. However, couple weeks later he informed me the position was on hold to due the economy. After accepting the attendant position, my ex-employer moved an internal candidate to position I interviewed for. To my dismay the ex-employer filled this position with a candidate with no corporate purchasing experience nor did this person have an advanced education like me. With over 10 years of experience, a Masters degree in Finance I felt I was the stronger candidate. I was disconcerted when my ex-employer never informed me the position was opened again. I believe I was treated unfairly since I was more qualified than the other candidate.

Do I need to add or delete anything to support my claim? Do I have too much information? Your comments are greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

Carolyn

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Your answers sound pretty good to me. Good luck.

Jason 2 years ago

Thanks for the reply Ralph. What should I do in the event that I can't contact my advocate? I called him a few days ago and he has not returned my call. I fully understand that this case is no longer his responsibility, and that he has no obligation in the matter. Is there anything I can do on my own?

-Jason

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

The Advocacy Program no longer covers appeals of ALJ hearings. I would keep calling your advocate. He should at least be willing to mail you his copy of the transcript. And he should be able to advise you on whether you should send a statement on your side of the case to the Board of Review. Usually that's not necessary. He might offer to write a statement for you for a fee. He would not receive any compensation from the Agency.

The Board of Review bases its decision on a review of the transcript and any exhibits. ALJ decisions are reversed by the Board of Review infrequently.

Jason 2 years ago

When you say that the Board of Review "reviews the transcript", you're talking about the recording of the ALJ hearing, correct?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Correct. When an ALJ decision is appealed by either party the tape recording of the hearing is transcribed by a typist and a paper copy is sent to both parties and to the Board of Review. The Board of Review also gets copies of the entire case file and any exhibits entered into the record by either party at the hearing.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Editorial NY Times 10-17-09

The Unemployed Wait

Published: October 16, 2009

More than a million jobless Americans are in danger of losing benefits by the end of the year unless Congress passes an extension of unemployment insurance. The House has acted, but the Senate, which has a better bill, has been bogged down by obstruction from Republicans. In these extraordinarily hard times, Congress should extend this vital safety net without further delay.

Skip to next paragraph

Related

Times Topics: Unemployment Insurance

Unemployment insurance, one of the great legacies of the New Deal, is intended to provide laid-off workers with an income while they look for their next job. With the unemployment rate at nearly 10 percent nationally — and at 10.3 percent in New York City — it has been hard to line up that next job. The Department of Labor recently reported that there were more than six people looking for every opening.

There are now more than five million Americans — roughly one-third of the unemployed — who have been out of work for six months or longer, according to the National Employment Law Project, a record since data was first recorded in 1948.

Benefits vary by state, but most cut off benefits after 26 weeks. Congress has extended benefits several times, most recently in February, but for many workers they are again running out.

The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, and other Democrats have introduced a bill that would extend unemployment insurance by up to an additional 14 weeks in all 50 states, with another six weeks for states with a jobless rate above 8.5 percent. It is an improvement on a bill passed by the House, which would extend benefits only in states with unemployment above 8.5 percent.

February’s extension, which included a $25-a-week increase in benefits, kept 800,000 people out of poverty, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. Putting more money in the pockets of the unemployed provided much-needed stimulus for the entire economy.

Every day that the Republicans continue to block an extension — fighting over amendments to the bill or delaying a vote — means thousands more Americans pushed closer to the edge of despair.

Next Article in Opinion (5 of 25) » A version of this article appeared in print on October 17, 2009, on page A18 of the New York edition.

jiberish profile image

jiberish 2 years ago

Ralph, I continue to be impressed. Florida just hit 11% unemployment. Nice work!

Candy 2 years ago

I find site to be very interesting, very informative and exposing the garbage that the state of Michigan is putting people through. I would like to add my two cent from my personal experience with UIA and a Temp Agency. In 6/2007 I was laid off my job of 7 years, I have worked my entire life 20+ years and only applied for unemployment 1 time for about 1 month before getting another job. I have been registered as well has work with severally temp agency through out my 20 year career, (you know they call you when a assignment that fits you qualification becomes available or you call them to see if they have any work available that fits your qualification).

QUAILFICATION being the operative word, anyways, after getting laid off in June of 2007, I was receiving unemployment for 6 month and then it ended, in Dec 2007, so from Jan 2008 through May 2008 I worked for 3 different temp agencies, one of them I had been registered with for 9 years and I worked for this agency on an assignment for 2 months and the assignment ended as temp jobs do…I called and called and called for weeks seeking another assignment, I was told nothing was available that fit my QUAILFICATION. Then I was called by another temp agency for another job, which I accepted, it lasted 2 months, and then ended, I called and called and called for another assignment and I was told nothing was available that fit my QUAILIFACTION. Yet again, I get another assignment with another temp agency, which lasted about 1 month and half and the assignment ended, again I called and called and called and was told no work was avail that fit my QUAILFICATION.

So here I am in May 2008 no job, no unemployment and I can not open a new UIA case until July 2008, because I have a benefit year already in effect. July 2008, George Bush passes the emergency unemployment act, and to be eligible you have to have had a benefit year in effect from 6/2007 which I did and I received a letter from UIA indicating that I was eligible……so I call UIA to apply for my emergency unemployment entitlement, I was told by a representative at UIA, that I had to open a new case because I had enough work credits, from the previous year, with the temp agencies, and my former employer (the one that had laid me off after 7 years). So on the telephone the UIA rep had all the information pertaining to my work history and ask me categorically why I wasn’t working at each job and my response was: no work available for the temp agencies and of course I was laid off of the job that I had for 7 years……my unemployment was approved and I could see my way out of the mess I was in…

October 2008, I receive 3 letter in the mail from UIA, each one represented each Temp agency that I have mentioned above stating the following: one agency said I quit to take another job (a LIE); one agency said I was fired (a LIE); and one agency said that they have been trying to call me for a job, but my phone was disconnect (a LIE). I am now DISQUIALIFIED FOR my UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS and cut off, without UIA even hearing my side of the story, oh, by the way now I own UIA one thousand dollars. Two of the Temp agencies was found liable (the one that said I was fired and the one that said I quit to take another job) however the one that said that my phone was disconnect was vindicated (even though I proved they lied with my telephone records) even though I had called MAVIN on one of the days that my phone was supposed to be disconnect. I lost and they won, about one month later this same Temp agency, calls me for a job, I am desperate and in no position to turn down any job, even though I am NOT QUAILIFIED, and it is work that I have never done before I take the job, 10 days later the engine in my car goes out while at the assignment. The assignment is 30 miles in other city from my home, it start at 5pm and ends at 11:30pm no public transportation is available for my to get home in the middle of the night, so I called the temp agency next morning and ask for a change in the time or another assignment, I was told that wasn’t an opinion for me, I told them that the following Friday would be my last day its Tuesday, the girl at the temp agency say’s ok we hang up the phone and 2 minutes later another girl at the temp agency calls me back and tells me that I don’t have to come back at all.

I get home sent a email to the first girl clarifying the conversation that we had, the next morning I call UIA tell them what happen, they tell me its ok and put me back on unemployment (remember they cut me off in October 2008) for this Temp agency, UIA sent me a ton of paper work asking me one hundred question about the incident with my car engine and me letting the temp agency no in advance and in a reasonable time frame (which I did) I filled paper out send it back and I am off the hook (NOT).

March 2009, I get a letter from UIA telling me I am DISQUIALIFIED FOR QUITING THE TEMP JOB in December 2008, May 2009 the ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE rules in the Temp agency favor, August 29, 2009 at board of review level, one board member agrees with the ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE, one board member agrees with me, and one board member agrees with the ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE, but states that the Michigan Unemployment law; 421.29 states the following; “that if an individual has an established benefit year in effect and during that benefit year leaves unsuitable work within 60 days after the beginning of that work the leaving does not disqualify the individual”, that under this law I may be eligible and that she would consider remand my case for a rehearing, as of today 10/23/2009 I am still waiting for my rehearing. By the way, if I lose this case I will own the UIA $4,000 + 1,000= 5,000 and the only way I am re-eligible for unemployment benefits again I have to rework making $4,000….I hope this help some of your readers…

Candy 2 years ago

Oh, I forgot in May 2009(while being cut off from my unemployment benefits) UIA make's a mistake and put $25(the raised that all unemployment receipts got) on my debit card, which I thought was money I had left on the card....September 2009 I receive a letter from UIA stating that I own them $25 so now if I lose this case I own them $4000+$1000+$25 for a grand total of $5025 WTF

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Candy, thanks for telling us your story. Many temp agencies, especially the small ones, will do almost anything to keep laid off employees from collecting unemployment benefits against their accounts. I've never seen a sleazy case from the big temp firms like Kelly or Manpower. The current provision in the statute requiring employees to report within 7 days after the end of an assignment trips up a lot of people. It was inserted into the act during the Engler administration at the request of the temp agencies. It is very unfair to claimants and should be eliminated or amended.

Candy 2 years ago

Section 421.29-Disqualification from benefits.

(l) Was employed by a temporary help firm, which as used in this section means an employer whose primary business is to provide a client with the temporary services of 1 or more individuals under contract with the employer, to perform services for a client of that firm if each of the following conditions is met:

(i) The temporary help firm provided the employee with a written notice before the employee began performing services for the client stating in substance both of the following:

(A) That within 7 days after completing services for a client of the temporary help firm, the employee is under a duty to notify the temporary help firm of the completion of those services.

(B) That a failure to provide the temporary help firm with notice of the employee's completion of services pursuant to sub-subparagraph (A) constitutes a voluntary quit that will affect the employee's eligibility for unemployment compensation should the employee seek unemployment compensation following completion of those services.

(ii) The employee did not provide the temporary help firm with notice that the employee had completed his or her services for the client within 7 days after completion of his or her services for the client.

i) The temporary help firm provided the employee with a written notice before the employee began performing services for the client stating in substance both of the following:

(A) That within 7 days after completing services for a client of the temporary help firm, the employee is under a duty to notify the temporary help firm of the completion of those services.

This law is crazy, In most cases the Temp agency calls the temp worker when a assignment fitting you qualification becomes available, because they (Temp agency are aware that you are seeking work) they (Temp agency) in sequence notifies the employee that the assignment has ended, immediately and continuously there after, the temp worker becomes aware that the current assignment will end, the temp worker is inquiry about another assignment. So this law requires the temp worker to call the temp agency to tell them that the assignment has ended? This is ridiculous, a slap in the face and deterrent for even working for a temp agency for unemployed worker, who just wants to work,

In fact the temp worker is required to put their own and their family’s livelihood on hold and in jeopardy (indefinitely) while the temp agency may or may not have another assignment for the temp worker.

I thought that the UIA, was for the people’s benefit and only had the unemployed workers best interested in mind, but these callous laws are indeed against the unemployed worker and was created with victory in mind for the temp agencies not to pay unemployment benefits to anyone, the temp agency knows that when the worker is calling everyday to be re-assigned to another job, they can tell the worker that there is no work is available (for weeks, months and years) and then when the worker fills for unemployment benefits the temp agency attempts and succeeds by coming up with all kind of innuendo’s, slandering the worker’s name, just blatant lies, because they know they can get away with denying the worker’s unemployment benefits, because the UIA has designed the laws to protect the (Temp agency) and not the workers….this is bureaucracies working hard against the unemployed workers.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

You can thank John Engler and the temp agencies who put the provision in the unemployment statute as a trap to keep claimants from qualifying for unemployment benefits. In effect, it sprinkles water on a layoff and voila! turns it into a voluntary leaving.

Candy 2 years ago

So, the Government allowed the temp agency to devise a law that misleads and ultimately puts the unemployed worker in jeopardy of losing everything that they own, who's job is (was) it to make sure that the unemployed worker didn’t get disenfranchise (like they have) and who was at the law making table that represented the unemployed worker? How can we get our government take a second look at this law and its ramifications? How can we get this law abolished? I am all IN to spearheading this interest group.

Candy 2 years ago

We have people that have been working 20 years and one two month stint working with a temp agency...destroys the individuals ability to collect unemployment. We need to bring back the law that states “that you have to work at least, 60 or was it 90 days with an employer to be eligible for unemployment” the old law seems to be more favorable to the unemployed worker. And at least the unemployed worker would know that they couldn’t collect unemployment, if they didn’t worked at least 90 days at any job……

Candy 2 years ago

Thanks Ralph for this forum you must heaven sent because people are truly in need the advice and the information that you are providing, may GOD bless you, for helping the needy and not the greedy...

Matt 2 years ago

Ralph, perhaps you could clear something up for me. I have looked all over the internet trying to find the correct information. With this new 14 - 20 week extention that may or may not pass, will this bill also extend benefits past the December 2009 deadline. Currently I am on EUC Tier 1 and I will be on EUC Tier 2 in Mid November. I know that I will be able to finish out collecting on EUC Tier 2 but then due to the deadline it looks as though I will be getting 13 weeks of EB (in Michigan) instead of the 20 weeks that are available now. Then if the bill passes I will be entitled to 20 more weeks? I can't find anywhere that they are going to extend the EUC and EB benefit programs that are set to expire at the end of 2009. I guess what I am wondering is do you have any idea if there are talks to extend benefits (EUC and EB) well into 2010, because they are set to expire at the end of the year. Thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Matt, I'm very sorry, but I don't have the answer to your questions. I have zero experience with issues involving extended benefits except that I don't think you have to apply to receive the extended benefits, or, if you do you should be notified automatically about the extension and the eligibility requirements and procedures. I'll see what I can find on your questions and try to get back to you if I find anything. Good luck!

John 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I was recently fired from my job and applied for Unemployment. In the mail I received a Monetary Determination that was correct. On the same day I also received a Request for Information Relative to Possible Ineligibility or Disqualification that seems to say I took a five month settlement from my employer. I did not take a settlement from my employer. So I filled out the form and faxed it back to the State. I suspect it will come out in my favor as it seems pretty easy to determine (tax records for one way) whether such a payment was made. My question is will the state punish (fine) the employer for making the false statement?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

They could, but my impression is that the UIA seldom punishes employers or claimants unless the offense is egregious. In my experience its not uncommon for employers to furnish misleading information to the Unemployment Insurance Agency. I would not hesitate to call the matter to the attention of the Agency and the Judge if your case gets to a hearing before an administrative law judge.

ledefensetech profile image

ledefensetech 2 years ago

Ralph the requirements to file and verify may differ from state to state. In Missouri, for example, you are given a number of employers you must contact per week, file weekly, keep a record of contacts made with employers and, finally, report in person to the local career center every four weeks.

I'm not sure what the requirements are in other states but in talking with citizens of other states, I get the impression that the process differs, sometimes substantially.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

That's true. There are significant differences in procedures and requirements from state to state. My direct experience is in Michigan. Thanks for the comment!

Scott 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I quit my job in July because they changed terms of hire. When I intially filed my unemployment claim I gave the UIA this statement when they asked for more information:

I was lied to about about the number of hours expected to work, work location, and time of day expected to work.

Issue 1, number of hours expected to work:

When offered this position I was told by Dave Sibrel, the district manager, that salary for the position was based on a 50 hour work week and that I would be expected to work 50 hours per week. On the 2nd week of my training I was told by Paula Powers, restaurant general manager and my trainer, that management trainees have to work alternating 50 and 60 hour work weeks during training only.

On 4/27/2009, after working one 50 hour week and one 60 hour week, I complained to Paula that I was not told I would have to work 60 hours per week when the job was offered to me and that I wanted to speak with the district manager, Dave Sibrel. I was never granted the opportunity to speak with Mr. Sibrel about the situation but was not asked to work more than 50 hours per week during training after that.

On 07/20/2009 I was told by Laverne Singleton, another assistant manager at the restaurant, that due to higher than expected labor all salaried managers were going to have to work 60 hours per week for the next 2 schedules. My shift that night began at 8pm on 7/20/2009 and ended at 6am on 7/21/2009. At 6am on 7/21/2009 when Paula arrived I asked her if we were really going to have to work 60 hours per week and again mentioned that I was told when hired by Dave that my salary was based on a 50 hour work week. She responded by saying, “If you're going to continue to complain about your work schedule than you'll get taken off of it.” At that point I notified her that 7/20/2009 would be my last day, gave her my keys, and left.

Issue 2, work location:

When offered this position I was told by Dave Sibrel that my training would last for 6 weeks. He said that my training would be conducted at their training restaurant, located on Merriman near Cherry Hill, and upon completion of training I would move to the location at the corner of Van Born and Telegraph, which is much closer to my house. My decision to accept this position, instead of other job offers at the time, was partly based on location.

On 5/18/2009 I was notified by Paula that I would remain at the Merriman location after training and would not be transferred to the Van Born location. I complained to her that I was told by Dave upon hire that I would be moved to the other location after training and felt like I was lied to. I asked to speak to Dave about this and Paula said, “This decision came from Sibrel, not me. You've already complained about your hours and now you want to complain about location. The last thing you want to do is piss Dave off before your training ends. Things like this happen all the time and there's nothing you can do about it.” Fearing further problems, I kept my mouth shut and stayed at that location for the duration of my employment.

Issue 3, time of day expected to work:

When offered this position I was told by Dave Sibrel that I should expect to work days and mids shifts as follows: 8am to 6pm, 9am to 7pm, 10am to 8pm, or 11am to 9pm. I knew the restaurants were a 24 hour operation and expressed concern about whether I'd have to work overnight shifts because my wife also works and we have kids at home. He said that as an AM1, my position title, I would only have to work overnight shifts during training as part of the process and that lower level managers typically work overnight shifts. He did mention that in rare circumstances it could happen but not often.

On 06/12/2009 I was informed by Paula that 2 of the overnight managers had requested some days off the next week so I was scheduled to work overnight shifts (8pm to 6am) 6/15/2009 – 6/17/2009. I understood it was a rare circumstance and worked the scheduled shifts.

On 6/19/2009 I noticed that on the following week's schedule I was again scheduled to work overnight shifts: 8pm to 6am on 6/22 and 7pm to 5am on 6/23. On 6/19 I asked Paula why I was again scheduled for these overnight shifts and she said, “I'm sorry. I thought you liked working overnight.” I told her that I didn't mind doing it the previous week to help out but would prefer days to overnights.

On 6/26/2009 I noticed that on the following week's schedule I was again scheduled to work overnight shifts: 8pm to 6am 6/29, 6/30, and 7/1. When I was viewing the schedule Paula approached me and said, “See what happens when you complain about your schedule.” Fearing further problems, I didn't complain about my schedule after that. I continued to get scheduled for overnight shifts at least twice per week for the duration of my employment. Specific dates: 7/06, 7/07, 7/13, 7/14, 7/20, 7/21.

I certify that the above statements are true and accurate.

Scott Cameron

The UIA determined that since the terms of hire were changed, specifically work location, that I had just cause to quit attributable to the employer. I started receiving benefits.

My employer protested and on 10/28/09 the UIA made a redetermination. The exact basis for redetermination is as follows:

Bravkilo Inc. protested determination issued 8-27-09. You quit this employer because you felt misinformed regarding hours required to work and location assigned. This employer states you remained employed at the location trained at and made no protests. Leaving is found to be voluntary and good cause is not found per section 29(1)(A). You are disqualified beginning 7-20-09 until completion of a $4344 rework. Determination is reversed. Restitution is due.

I am most certainly going to appeal because I know they must be lying because I definitely protested the above issues. My protests were only made to my direct supervisor though and I was wondering if this will affect my case. Your tips and opinion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Scott

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Scott, It sounds to me like you have a pretty good chance of prevailing before an administrative law judge on the basis that you had good cause for quitting attributable to your employer. I think the original determination is correct.

The complaints you made to your supervisor should suffice for that element of your case.

It would be good to emphasize at the hearing that because of your wife's job and your child care responsibilities

entitled you to rely on the committments made to you when you accepted the job.

Be sure and get to the hearing on time. Keep calling MARVIN to certify in accordance with Agency procedures.

Good luck.

Scott 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

Thanks for the quick response and advice. I felt that I had a strong case but hearing it from you certainly makes me feel better about it. I am wondering though what information my employer could have given the UIA for them to reverse their first determination. I was advised by someone else that it is possible to find out that information and was wondering how best to go about getting it. Having it would certainly better prepare me and my advocate for the hearing. Any additional advice you may have in that regard would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Scott

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

One reason apparently is that they told the UIA that you didn't complain. Court cases require that in most circumstances the employee must complain and give the employer a chance to correct the problem. The agency unexplainably ignored your statement that you did complain to your supervisor about the hours and the location to which you were assigned. Once you have filed an appeal for an ALJ hearing and you are notified of the location, judge and date for a hearing you are entitled to go to the hearing office and request to see your case file. Once you sign up with an advocate he or she can have a copy of your case file faxed to him.

The outcome of your case, in my opinion, is not a sure winner. It will depend on what your employer says in the hearing, your testimony and which the judge deems more credible. Voluntary leaving cases are not easy to win. The burden is on you to prove your case, that is, you will be asked to testify first through questions by your advocate and the judge and your answers. Then the employer advocate will have an opportunity to cross examine you and then offer his own testimony followed by a cross examination by your advocate. It's a good idea to find an advocate a week or so before the hearing so that he will have time to get a copy of the case file and prepare himself and you for the hearing.

Scott 2 years ago

Mr Deeds,

Once again, thanks for the quick response and info. I do have another question. Some of your responses in this forum mention the possibility of an employer not showing up to a hearing. If this happens, does the claimant win by default? The reason I'm asking is because this employer is not my base period employer. If what I've read on the state's UIA page is correct then they, as the most recent separting employer, are only liable for the first 2 weeks of my benefits and my previous employer, the only base period employer, is liable for the rest. I am thinking that recovering just 2 weeks of my benefits may not be worth the hassle to them. I'm obviously not going to bank on them not showing up but was just curious about the outcome should they not show up.

Thanks again,

Scott

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

In a case involving misconduct (where the burden of proof is on the employer), if the employer doesn't show up or request a stay the judge will rule in favor of the claimant. I'm pretty sure that many or most judges in voluntary leaving cases will require you to testify even though the employer doesn't show up. His decision will be based solely on your testimony without taking into account what information furnished by the employer to the Agency. That doesn't mean an automatic win for you.

The decision will apply to the benefits against both of your previous employers. If you lose you will likely be requested (required) to repay all the benefits you have received, not just two weeks.

Scott 2 years ago

I know they will make me repay all of the benefits, as of now they mentioned in their redetermination letter that I owe 10 weeks worth of benefits. My interpretation of what I read was that my most recent employer's account in this case would only be charged for the first 2 weeks of my benefits and that rest would be charged to my base period employer's account. This was the basis for my rationale that it may not be worth their time to show up at a hearing just to get a credit of 2 weeks worth of benefits.

So your saying that if they don't show up, the judge will use only my testimony and not any other information previously given by my employer? Sorry if I'm becoming a pest but just wanted clarification on that.

Thanks again,

Scott

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

The judge's questions to you may be influenced by information furnished by your employer. But technically because ALJ hearings are de novo (start over fresh and consider only direct, admissible evidence presented at the hearing,i.e., no hearsay, no written statements, etc.)they should not base their decision on information furnished to the UIA by an employer who does not appear to testify. Your guess is as good as mine on whether the employer will show up. I would be inclined to doubt that the employer understands how many of your benefits will be charged to his account. Most employers don't like to have any benefits charged to their account because they cause their tax rate to go up. The minimum is under 1% and the max. is 12-14%.

Scott 2 years ago

Thanks for all your help. I'll let you know of the outcome.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I would appreciate a report on your hearing and decision.

kimmi73 2 years ago

My husband protested about 6 weeks or so ago.. and we havent heard a thing yet Should he contact the UIA office..thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I would if I were him. Or go to one of the "Problem Resolutions Offices" and talk face-to-face with a human. The locations of the PRO offices are on the UIA website linked above on this site. Let me know if you can't find it.

Ohma profile image

Ohma 2 years ago

It seems that you are the resident expert and willing to help. That is so nice to see. Perhaps you could offer some wisdom for me. I was recently terminated from my job as a conveniance store manager because of a policy that says we are to I.D. everyone that appears to be Under 27. If the policy says appears to be it seems to me they are asking for my opinion. If they are asking me to use my judgment and to me in my judgement the person did not appear to be under 27 how can I be wrong. In addition the policy Clearly states that the company they hired to do compliance checks has been hired for educational purposes. How is firing me educational. It has ben 7 weeks since I opened my claim and i still have not received a determination. every time I call they tell me I will get something in the mail.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Ohma, some questions that have a bearing on your case are the following

1. Was the event for which your were discharged a single incident or had you been warned previously after similar incidents? This is a key point. Generally, single incidents which don't evidence intent on the employee's part to disregard the employer's interest don't rise to the level of misconduct.

2. Were you provided, in writing, a rule stating that dismissal was the penalty of failure to I.D. an under age buyer of alcoholic beverages?

3. How old was the person whom you failed to I.D.? It would help your case if the person was over 21. If, for example, the checker was actually 18 for example, this would make your case more difficult.

4. Had you received prior disciplinary action--warnings, reprimands, disciplinary layoffs during the year preceding your dismissal? A clear discipline record will help your case. If you were "on the launching pad" due to prior incidents, this would make your case more difficult.

If your case goes to a hearing before an administrative law judge, I would argue, as you said, the rule "appears to be under 27," is vague and susceptible to varying conclusions because someone who "appears to be under 27" to one person might appear to be over 27 to another person. Stick to your position that the checker did not appear to you to be under 27.

Ohma profile image

Ohma 2 years ago

Thank you I found that very helpful and no the checker was not under 18 which is the law in my state and no i had not been reprimanded in th last year for this issue. however once 2 years gone i did fail a compliance check and was suspended for 7 days.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Although selling alcohol to a minor is a serious matter which justifies the checking program. However, a single or occasional unintentional error does not amount to disqualifying misconduct, in my opinion. The fact that you were suspended on a previous occasion is an indication that the company's policy does not require dismissal confirms this view. When an employer reaches back into the past and cites an incident and warning or discipline, this calls for an objection at the hearing that such incidents or discipline a year or more should not be considered when determining misconduct under the Act.

Ohma profile image

Ohma 2 years ago

Thank-you I know you are not the judge but it helped to ease my mind just the same.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

More help nears for 100,000 jobless

Hard-hit Michiganders count on Congress to act today

BY TODD SPANGLER

FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF

WASHINGTON -- With a key vote Wednesday, the U.S. Senate passed without dissent legislation to extend jobless benefits by 14 weeks or more to out-of-work people -- including at least 100,000 Michiganders -- who have exhausted their unemployment or would by year's end.

The House, which passed a slightly different version, is expected to approve the bill perhaps as early as today and send it to President Barack Obama for his signature.

For many in Michigan, which had a nation-leading 15.3% unemployment rate in September, help can't come too soon.

Congress had previously authorized up to 33 weeks of added benefits as the nation ran headlong into recession, but for many people, those added payments are long gone or set to expire. And in states like Michigan, jobs are hard to come by.

Vickie Jurcak, 50, of Warren lost her job with Quicken Loans in 2008 and saw her last unemployment check in early October. She said she couldn't pay the rent last month and is worried where she and her 17-year-old son will land.

"It depends on my landlord," she said. "There's not going to be any rent paid at the end of this month."

Now even extended benefits are running out for Michiganders

Here's Jurcak's message to Congress: On Wednesday, this Warren mom wanted to go to a job fair in Livonia and couldn't afford the gas. Heck, she didn't even feel like she could spring for the bus fare.

With increasing frequency, the former Quicken Loans title worker, who lost her job in March 2008, heads to St. Leonard on 9 Mile to get food from the food bank. Every time she goes, she said, "there's more and more of us," by which she means unemployed people.

Her last unemployment check came from the state in the first full week of October and, with that, she covered a month's worth of utilities and let $900 in rent go unpaid. She'll depend on her landlord's kindness not to be thrown out, hoping Congress comes through.

Jurcak is one of Michigan's jobless corps -- by percentage bigger than that of any other state in the nation -- counting on the nation's lawmakers to approve yet another extension of unemployment benefits as the prospects of permanent, lasting employment in southeastern Michigan remain grim.

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"I can't even get a job at Burger King," she said. "I tried."

On Wednesday, the Senate passed legislation that adds up to 14 weeks of unemployment benefits for people across the nation who have exhausted their benefits or will by year's end. For some in hard-hit states like Michigan, there could be even more -- as much as another six weeks of benefits -- though there remain doubts about who would be eligible for them.

More legislation might be needed to make them widely available into next year.

Senate passage, which came on a unanimous vote, is expected to lead to a quick vote in the House as early as today and the extension to be signed into law by President Barack Obama, though it could take weeks for checks to be sent out.

"Every day of delay means more individuals are exhausting their unemployment benefits and more people still looking for work are having trouble making ends meet," said U.S. Rep. Sander Levin, a Royal Oak Democrat and a key sponsor of the extension in the House.

"Families throughout the state and across the country are struggling," added Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich.

The Senate legislation also extends a $8,000 first-time homebuyers credit, but in Michigan, the unemployment extension is what seemed to generate the most interest.

Terry Poduska, 51, of Royal Oak, a mother of two teens, last worked for a small financial company in 2008. She said she already has cut the family's spending deeply. She has six more weeks of benefits.

"I don't know what else we can cut out," she said.

Who will qualify for extended benefits?

Extension comes with a deadline: Under the Senate plan approved Wednesday, a person would have to exhaust regular unemployment benefits (14 to 26 weeks in Michigan, or up to seven weeks for workers in their own family businesses) and the previous emergency extension authorized by Congress (up to 33 weeks) by the end of December to be eligible for the extension.

That means anyone whose regular benefits or previously authorized Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC) is to be exhausted in 2010 wouldn't qualify for the extra weeks -- at least not under the bill the Senate passed. Congress might extend that window with another bill.

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The new extension isn't retroactive, meaning the program wouldn't provide payments for weeks that have passed since benefits expired.

How the benefit is to be determined: It is to be based on your regular unemployment benefit, which is determined by a formula that looks at recent work history and wages. Depending on that benefit, you could get less than the maximum number of weeks authorized under the extension.

For instance, under the previously authorized extension, a person eligible for 20 weeks of regular benefits received an additional 26 weeks of benefits. The new extension is based on 50% of regular benefits, meaning that person is to receive 10 additional weeks.

Additional weeks: For high-unemployment states like Michigan, there's an additional six weeks of benefits. But under the Senate bill, many people wouldn't qualify.

Recipients have to exhaust all benefits -- including this legislation's initial allotment of up to 14 weeks -- by the end of the year to get the extra six weeks. Since there are only eight weeks left in the year, no one receiving the maximum amount will exhaust the newly authorized 14 weeks in time.

However, if you were already getting less than the maximum number of weeks based on your work history, you could qualify for the extra weeks. For instance, say you only received 14 weeks of regular benefits. Under the previously authorized EUC, you received about 18 weeks of added benefit. The new extension would provide seven weeks -- meaning you could exhaust that before the end of the year and qualify for the additional weeks.

Ready to go: The bill now goes to the House where few, if any, changes are expected. It could be taken up today. Then it would go to President Barack Obama, who is expected to sign it. It will take time for states to contact people who qualify and get checks out to them.

State's extended benefits: Michigan, like many states, is offering its extended benefits, or EB program -- on top of the federal EUC -- which is currently worth an additional 20 weeks of benefits. That could drop to 13 by year's end, if the federal government ends its full funding of the program, as is planned.

ledefensetech profile image

ledefensetech 2 years ago

Wow, MI has it bad. I thought Missouri was bad with 9.5% unemployment. Does the Senate bill not increase the number of weeks to 20 if the unemployment rate is above 8%, the House bill does that. I wonder if that will survive into the combined version.

thranax profile image

thranax Level 4 Commenter 2 years ago

Wow! Thanks for the in-depth incite!

~thranax~

Madeleine 2 years ago

Ralph, I have a question that I can't find the answer to anywhere. I was laid off after 10 months on the job (along with many others because of downsizing and budget cuts) and my employer was fine with us getting unemployment. No problem. So I applied for a job recently that was advertized as a 6 month temporary position and I assumed due to the type of work that it would pay ~$11/hr. (I'd made $13/hr at my prior job.) Turns out the job is a 1 year temporary, only $9/hr, no benefits, BUT they want a one-year commitment from me... I countered at $11/hr, no benes, and I would give them the entire year. The employer declined. A full year is too long to work without benes if a better job could be had. So when next I call MARVIN, how do I say Yes I was offered full time work but turned it down, and here's the reason, so that my benefits aren't denied from then on? It was $4/hr less than my prior job. Did I have to take it? Thanks in advance. I appreciate all your expertise.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Madeleine, Your question falls in what appears to me to be a gray area. I wasn't able to find a court case or UIA regulation that clearly answers the question of whether a claiman is required to report refusing a clearly unsuitable job offer. Answering MARVIN that you refused a job offer will raise a question about your eligibility and prompt the UIA to ask you for additional information about the nature of the offer and why you refused it. Your answer would be that the offer was not suitable because of the $4 lower pay than your prior job, lack of benefits and temporary nature of the job. Once you have responded to the UIA's inquiry the Agency will make an eligibility determination, probably in your favor. Another interpretation might be that MARVIN's question presumes that the offer was for a suitable job which this one wasn't. This interpretation might justify a NO answer to MARVIN's question. Note: The Agency probably wouldn't agree with this interpretation even though there is no apparently useful purpose served by requiring claimants to report a refusal of a clearly unsuitable job offer, for example, one for a job 100 miles away from where you live or one that required extensive travel for a single mother with children, or one for which the claimant was not qualified by experience or training. I'm unable to provide a definitive answer.

There is quite a bit of case law on suitability--substantial difference in pay, too far to travel, unqualified by lack of training or experience and so forth. It sounds to me like you were not obligated to take the job offer because it was unsuitable. However, suitability is another somewhat gray area open to differing interpretations. Also, as the duration of your benefits increases, so does the Agency's expectation that you should be willing to accept a lower paying job. This changes in increments based on the months you have collected benefits. Sorry I'm not able to provide a more definitive answer.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Madeleine, Your question falls in what appears to me to be a gray area. I wasn't able to find a court case or UIA regulation that clearly answers the question of whether a claiman is required to report refusing a clearly unsuitable job offer. Answering MARVIN that you refused a job offer will raise a question about your eligibility and prompt the UIA to ask you for additional information about the nature of the offer and why you refused it. Your answer would be that the offer was not suitable because of the $4 lower pay than your prior job, lack of benefits and temporary nature of the job. Once you have responded to the UIA's inquiry the Agency will make an eligibility determination, probably in your favor. Another interpretation might be that MARVIN's question presumes that the offer was for a suitable job which this one wasn't. This interpretation might justify a NO answer to MARVIN's question. Note: The Agency probably wouldn't agree with this interpretation even though there is no apparently useful purpose served by requiring claimants to report a refusal of a clearly unsuitable job offer, for example, one for a job 100 miles away from where you live or one that required extensive travel for a single mother with children, or one for which the claimant was not qualified by experience or training. I'm unable to provide a definitive answer.

There is quite a bit of case law on suitability--substantial difference in pay, too far to travel, unqualified by lack of training or experience and so forth. It sounds to me like you were not obligated to take the job offer because it was unsuitable. However, suitability is another somewhat gray area open to differing interpretations. Also, as the duration of your benefits increases, so does the Agency's expectation that you should be willing to accept a lower paying job. This changes in increments based on the months you have collected benefits. Sorry I'm not able to provide a more definitive answer.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Madeleine, another option would be to call the Agency 800 number and pose your question. Or go to one of the "Problem Resolution Offices (locations linked above) where you can speak face-to-face with a UIA representative and pose your question.

Madeleine 2 years ago

Ralph,

The green book doesn't cover ANY of this... Thank you.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

• UIA expects to begin making payments on the new EUC extension by mid-

December.

• If you have exhausted all benefits, you will receive a letter in the mail by

November 21, 2009 with information and instructions about the new EUC

benefits and reporting for benefit payments.

• If you are currently collecting state unemployment, EUC Tier I or Tier II,

continue to report using MARVIN. You will receive information, instructions

and decisions as you continue reporting.

UIA will update information about the EUC and EB extensions on this website.

Here's a site with more information on extended benefits:

http://unemployed-friends.forumotion.com/michigan-

Candy 2 years ago

August 29, 2009 at board of review level, one board member agrees with the ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE, one board member agrees with me, and one board member agrees with the ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE, but states that the Michigan Unemployment law; 421.29 states the following; “that if an individual has an established benefit year in effect and during that benefit year leaves unsuitable work within 60 days after the beginning of that work the leaving does not disqualify the individual”, that under this law I may be eligible and that she would consider remand my case for a rehearing, as of today 10/23/2009 I am still waiting for my rehearing. As of today 11/16/2009 still no word on my Rehearing.

How long must I wait for a rehearing with the Board of Reveiw, it was by their suggestion that I get a rehearing. Please help me understand Board of Review time line/frame.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I don't have a good feel how long it will take before a re-hearing is scheduled. The judges, the Board of Review and the UIA, as you might imagine are pretty busy. Go for the re-hearing and get a good advocate well in advance of the hearing. Are you pretty sure your case has actually been remanded? Did you request a remand? I don't remember exactly what the procedure is. It might be worth a call to the Board of Review.

Candy 2 years ago

It was by the(members of the Board of Review) suggestion that I get a rehearing. So I am sure my case deserves a second look and considerations due to Michigan Unemployment law; 421.29 states the following; “that if an individual has an established benefit year in effect and during that benefit year leaves unsuitable work within 60 days after the beginning of that work the leaving does not disqualify the individual”, in my case I only work for 10 days with this temp agency, and this was an effort on the temp agency behalf not to pay unemployment from a benefit year that was already established from the previous year (2007)not from the 10 days that I worked in 2008. I try to get them change the hours and/or re-assign me to another job they never try to accommodate me what so ever.....I am trying to kept the faith in the State of Michigan being fair (that's all I ask)and that the truth and justice will prevail. Pray for me..cause I am dying here slowly

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

If Congress doesn't tack action before the end of the year unemployment benefits will run out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/19/us/19unemploy.ht

Shirley 2 years ago

I am new to all of this. I was awared benefits on 6/3/09 and I just got a letter stating that the emloyer disputed this on 7/8/09. How is it that this took over 4 months and is that within protocal? I was fired based on the employers acusation that I was perfoming other business on their time. I was performing other work on my lunch break and my supervisor told me I could. At first the determintation stated I was not deliberatley disregarding my employers interest. How can I prove this and what can they use to try and prove against me?

Thank you

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

1. File an appeal of the redetermination requesting an administrative law judge hearing.

2. Continue to call MARVIN and certify in accordance with Agency procedures until your case is resolved.

3. At the hearing the burden will be on your employer to prove misconduct to the satisfaction of the judge in accordance with the law. That is not easy to do. The employer will have to show that you violated a rule of which you had been informed, that the violation was intentional, that the violation harmed the interest of the employer, and that you had been previously warned about the action for which you were discharged. From what you said, your case sounds like it should be a winner. But the judge's decision may boil down to whether he believes your testimony or that of your employer.

Get a good advocate to help you and make sure you get to the hearing on time.

Four months does sound like a long time. But I don't believe there is a time limit. If you lose the case you should not be denied benefits for the period before the employer responded to the agency's request for infomation on the reason you were dismissed. The employer will have to provide first-hand, non-hearsay testimony supporting their reason for firing you and establish the elements of proof for misconduct that I listed above.

Scott 2 years ago

Mr Deeds,

About 3 weeks ago I asked you questions about my quit claim with the UIA. I received my notice of hearing and, per your advice, went to the location and received a copy of the case file. I would like your opinion on the information and possible outcome.

On 9/23, Talx Ucexpress sent a letter to the UIA requesting appeal of determination stating "The claimant is considered to have abandoned his/her job after failing to return to work."

They then include a summary of termination stating the reason as "quit - no call/no show; employee was not promised a specific location when hired in and did not bring concerns to Senior Restaurant Manager or District Manager"

They include a copy of the team member handbook outlining failing to call in for 3 days and grievance procedures. The grievance procedures state that all concerns should be brought to senior restaurant manager and if not satisfied, they should be brought to next in chain of command, i.e., Disrict Manager.

They then include a copy of a certified letter they mailed me in July stating that I was termed for no call/no show on 7/23/09.

Then there is letter dated 9/23/09 from the District Manager to the UIA stating: "Scott Cameron was hired to work in my district I Dave Sibrel have stores in the Detroit area from Taylor to Canton. Scott was hired and trained for 6 weeks at the Merriman road location. After training Scott was assigned to the same location he trained at Merriman road and worked there until he quit. Scott never spoke with me about any issues or problems he was having concerning his work."

The last thing is lengthly letter that the senior restaurant manager gave to corporate the day I quit explaining the circumstances and admitting that I officialy quit and did not no call/no show.

I apologize for the length but wanted you to have all the informaion. I must say I'm a little nervous because I know I was promised a specific location and they are claiming that I wasn't. If the burden of proof is on me, how do I prove this? The conversation between Dave and myself was private, and there were no witnesses. Also, is it detrimental to me that I only brought these concerns to Paula and not Dave?

Your thoughts and opinion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Scott

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

COBRA REDUCTION PROVISIONS

Here's a link to a U.S. Department of labor website which provides information on the 2009 ARRA COBRA reduction provisions.

http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/cobra.html

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Scott, I'm not able to predict the outcome of your case. Make sure that you emphasize clearly in your testimony the understandings you were given when you were hired over the hours you would be expected to work and the location and that you did complain to your supervisor over these issues with no relief forthcoming. You should emphasize also that these issues presented problems for your family responsibilities. Resignation cases are the hardest for claimants to win. Make sure you discuss your case thoroughly with your advocate and get to the hearing on time. Good luck.

Scott 2 years ago

Thanks again for your help. Its seems to me that, as you mentioned above, it will boil down to my word against theirs and which the judge believes. One last question: Is a decision made immediately, i.e., I'll know the outcome when I leave that day, or will I find out later by mail?

Scott 2 years ago

Thanks again for your help. Its seems to me that, as you mentioned above, it will boil down to my word against theirs and which the judge believes. One last question: Is a decision made immediately, i.e., I'll know the outcome when I leave that day, or will I find out later by mail?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

No. The judge will issue a written decision within a few days and send it to you in the mail. Sometimes, if the employer doesn't appear at the hearing the judge will reveal his decision if it is in favor of the claimant.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

No. The judge will issue a written decision within a few days and send it to you in the mail. Sometimes, if the employer doesn't appear at the hearing the judge will reveal his decision if it is in favor of the claimant.

Scott 2 years ago

Thanks for all your help. I'll let you know of the outcome.

Scott

Clark 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds

I was disqualified for benefits because of excessive attendance violations. I had received prior warnings, misconduct is found.

I want to protest. I was never intentionally late. My problem was I have a hard time waking up in the morning even after setting three alarms. I have never been good at waking up my whole life when it came to school, work at other jobs, and regular routine I have never been able to wake up right away.

I am a recovering alcoholic. I used drugs and alcohol for many years, but I am now sober for 4+ years. I never used drugs or alcohol at this job or during my 4 years working with this company. If I have a poker addiction or a computer addiction that results in me staying up later, not getting sleep, and affecting my ability to get to work on time do you think it is a valid argument to present at the hearing.

This is information from Wikipedia:

"However, common usage of the term addiction has spread to include psychological dependence. In this context, the term is used in drug addiction and substance abuse problems, but also refers to behaviors that are not generally recognized by the medical community as problems of addiction, such as compulsive overeating. The term addiction is also sometimes applied to compulsions that are not substance-related, such as problem gambling and computer addiction. In these kinds of common usages, the term addiction is used to describe a recurring compulsion by an individual to engage in some specific activity, despite harmful consequences, as deemed by the user themself to their individual health, mental state, or social life. Addiction is now narrowly defined as "uncontrolled, compulsive use"; if there is no harm being suffered by, or damage done to, the patient or another party, then clinically it may be considered compulsive, but to the definition of some it is not categorized as 'addiction'. The DSM definition of addiction can be boiled down to compulsive use of a substance (or engagement in an activity) despite ongoing negative consequences—this is also a summary of what used to be called "psychological dependency."

The disease model of addiction holds that addiction is a disease, coming about as a result of either the impairment of neurochemical or behavioral processes, or of some combination of the two. Within this model, addictive disease is treated by specialists in Addiction Medicine. Within the clinical field, the American Medical Association, National Association of Social Workers, and American Psychological Association all have policies which are predicated on the theory that addictive processes represent a disease state. Most treatment approaches, as well, are based on the idea that dependencies are behavioral dysfunctions, and, therefore, contain, at least to some extent, elements of physical or mental disease. Organizations such as the American Society of Addiction Medicine believe the research-based evidence for addiction's status as a disease is overwhelming."

I genuinely wanted to be on time to my work. You said "Medical records and other tangible evidence can be helpful in establishing good cause for absences in unemployment compensation hearings.", do you feel this is a strong enough reason to why my tardiness should not be considered misconduct?

Do you think I have a better chance of arguing based on the concept of 'condonation' because many other workers were frequently late as well, and that I was not that late when I was late?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I think you will have a hard time winning your case. Case law says that in cases where absence or tardiness is frequent the onus shifts from the employer to the claimant to show that his attendance problem did not amount to misconduct, either because he was absent due to factors beyond his control--illness, child care, death in family or the like. I seriously doubt that difficulty waking up in the morning, for whatever reason, will engender much sympathy from the administrative law judge. Sorry, but I think your case is a loser unless you get lucky and the employer doesn't show up at the hearing. Sorry I can't be more encouraging.

Clark 2 years ago

As defined by American Psychiatric Association, pathological gambling is an impulse control disorder that is a chronic and progressive mental illness.

Would someone who suffered from a mental illness such as Schizophrenia or Bipolar be able to claim they were in manic episodes causing them to be late?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Someone suffering from mental illness, supported by appropriate documentation, would be able to cite that as an excuse for being late. I don't doubt what you say about gambling addiction being a chronic illness. However, I doubt that it would evoke as much sympathy from a judge than other illnesses. Again, medical documentation would be needed to support your argument.

Alcoholism has been recognized as a disease by the medical profession and to a certain extent in UC case law where the facts of each case are considered in deciding whether the offense (absence, tardiness, reporting for work under the influence, drinking at work) constitutes misconduct. Whether or not the employee is in treatment is also a consideration. These cases can go either way. Conduct involving drug use is treated more severely under the law. Failure to pass a drug test usually results in a ruling of misconduct if test procedures are followed to the letter.

Confused 2 years ago

I exhausted my 26 weeks of unemployment benefits. Took a Part Time position as an office assistant with the intentions it would lead to Full Time at a company that was too far to drive for the salary I was receiving. After working there for 3 months, and a lack of office work, the boss was making me do marketing and event planning, which i am NOT suitable for. He also informed me he would not be able to add add'l hours to my current work week of only 12 hours! During the time I worked for this company my husband was sent to work out of state. I was very stressed.. needed to look for full time employment, closer to home to keep our family from having to move out of state OR worse case scenario, we would have to move. This is the reason I gave my employer for my resignation. Two weeks after resigning, I received a letter along with an application for "extended unemployment benefits" I informed them on the application of this most recent job, I stated that my reason for seperation was due to it being part time and not full time, distance was too far for the salary. I received extended benefits for a year and 1/2 (on and off) I then received a letter that i needed to file a new EB claim, which i did online. I then received a nasty letter from unemployment telling me i had lied and not informed them of my most recent position. (YES i did) my compensation continued. Now the Agency is claiming I am disqualified, because i left to relocate (based on my employers response) and that i owe them back the money PLUS damages. I have all my evidence that I did NOT mislead them, I even phoned them asking if i would be eligible for extended benefits, because i had just quit a job?? They informed me they would make that decision when they receive my application. How can they just change their mind, after THEY decided to pay me???

Candy 2 years ago

Confused: prepare for a long battle with UIA, did you read my comments on this blog dated; 5 weeks ago. Its seems the UIA doesn't care how far you have to walk or drive or how it effects your family life.....yeah their laws say one thing, but their actions are lawless and they do whatever they want. (that’s the State of Michigan for you) Blowing the unemployed workers rights off and away.

Ralph, as today I am still waiting to hear if I will get a remand for a rehearing on my case, as per one of the Board of Review members suggested, it’s been 3 months now. When, When?

confused 2 years ago

I understand that they don't care how far i have to travel. But it was a part time job, not even enough to pay for the gas to get me there at almost $4.00/gallon and I was not being asked to do the job that i was hired in to do! That being said.. When i filled out the application I put ALl that information on there. The UIA is the one that determined that i WAS eligible based on the information that i gave them! NOW they are claiming that i misled them! I have copies of all my documentation, I never misled them. If THEY did not feel i was eligible then THEY should NOT have paid me!!! It is NOT up to ME to decide if i am eligible or not. That is what they get paid to do! And I would like to know that the person they feel paid me in error still has a job?? Cause i need one!!!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Confused, 1. Appeal the redetermination and request a hearing before an administrative law judge. 2. Get the best advocate you can find off the list provided by the UIA once the hearing is scheduled. 3. Work with the advocate to prepare for the hearing. 4. Keep calling MARVIN to certify in accordance with agency procedures. Good luck!

Candy, did you request in writing that your case be remanded for a rehearing. I don't think this is automatic unless a majority of the Board of Review votes for and orders a remand. You need to do some checking either with the BOARD of Review or at one of the Agency's Problem Solving Offices. I've heard that they do a good job at the Pontiac office.

Candy 2 years ago

Yes Ralph me and my Advocate requested a remand on 8/29/2009 the board did receive the request on 9/1/2009. This remand is per one of the (members of the Board of Review) suggestion, because the law; 421.29 states the following; “that if an individual has an established benefit year in effect and during that benefit year leaves unsuitable work within 60 days after the beginning of that work the leaving does not disqualify the individual”, I only worked for this company for 6 of 10 days, this law was never followed, applied, or even considered in my case prior to the level of the Board, yes it is by the board member suggestion that I get remanded for rehearing and I have called the Board of review's office many times since than and have been told that a decision has not been made.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Okay. Thanks for the clarification. Good luck.

candy 2 years ago

August 29, 2009 at board of review level, one board member agrees with the ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE, one board member agrees with me, and one board member agrees with the ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE, but states that the Michigan Unemployment law; 421.29 states the following; “that if an individual has an established benefit year in effect and during that benefit year leaves unsuitable work within 60 days after the beginning of that work the leaving does not disqualify the individual”, that under this law I may be eligible and that she would consider remand my case for a rehearing. Ralph I am dying here, after 25 years of hard work and me working 6 of 10 days for a sleazy temp agency has ruined my life and any possibility of me recovering from this major set back is slim. I have lost everything that I accumulated in the last past 25 years, because somebody didn’t do there job as it relates to applying the Michigan Unemployment laws to benefit the unemployed worker… I am going from an Executive Assistant to Homeless...pray for me

Confused 2 years ago

Exactly HOW do i determine the "best" advocate based on the list they provide me?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Well, the list provides a certain amount of information about each advocate's credentials. Second you can talk to as many as you can reach by telephone and get their reaction after telling them briefly about your case. And you can ask them questions about their background and experience and how they would proceed to handle your case. At a minimum they should be willing to get the case file a couple of days or so before the hearing, study it, and then get back with you by phone to discuss your and your employer's side of the case and to brief you on what to expect at the hearing. Many of them will ask you to meet them at the hearing office a half-hour before the scheduled time of the hearing to go over any last minute details about the case. There is obviously a certain amount of guess work and luck involved. Some are busier than others and may be reluctant to spend much time on the phone discussing your case before you sign on by giving him or her your case number, ss# and appeal number so that they can sign on as your advocate and get a copy of the case file. Once you give an advocate your case # you are stuck with him for better or worse. Most of the people on the list are familiar with UC case law and are pretty competent.

Clark 2 years ago

I am going to write my protest to determination right now. How detailed should I be in my reason for disagreeing.

Confused 2 years ago

Thank you so much for you help! I feel I do not have anything to worry about, as I have been completely honest with them from the beginning and it was THEM that determined if I was eligible, not ME! If THEY made a mistake, then I can only assume that someone is out of a job and there will be a job opening at the State of Michigan! But the stress that they have put me through is very unfair!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Clark, Just provide the facts of your dismissal, resignation or other termination as clearly and concisely as you can.

Scott 2 years ago

Ralph, I went to my hearing yesterday. My employer denied everything including ever offering a specific work location. I'm not worried about that part because both me and my advocate agreed that they looked like they were lying and my testimony was solid. They're advocate tried to get me to contradict myself on several occassions with no success and my advocate did get their witness to contradict herself on one occasion. I believe that I established proof that these promises were made and that I complained with no relief forthmcoming. My advocate's concern though is that I admitted to not reading the employee handbook which outlines greivance procedures and transfer requests. She said it's not the end all, lose all but she found it a concern.

I was wondering if you could outline for me the specifics of that section of unemployment law. Does it require that I follow my employer's complaint procedures to the letter or do I just need to prove that I complained and gave time to correct?

Thanks for all your help

Scott

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

It should be sufficient that you "complained and gave time to correct." But the law is a bit murky on this. It might depend on how explicitly the employer's complaint procedure is spelled out in writing and given to you in an employee handbook. Normally the first step of complaining to your supervisor is sufficient unless the complaint is about the supervisor in which case you go to the next level of management or to the HR department. Most of the judges aren't too picky about how you complained. Here's what the UIA says:

What court cases have said: Unemployment compensation cases say that before quitting, the worker must first tell the employer about the problem and must give the employer a chance to correct it. If the problem continues, and the worker quits his job, he or she would not be disqualified from receiving unemployment benefits [assuming the Unemployment Agency agreed that the employer's conduct provided the worker with an acceptable reason for leaving]. The worker must show that he or she left the job for a reason that would cause a reasonable person, under similar conditions, to leave the job."

Scott 2 years ago

The complaint procedure in the handbook states that concerns should first be brought to the restaurant manager. It further states that if you are unsatisfied with the way they handle it, that the next person in the chain of command should be contacted. It then lists the chain of command as follows:

1. Restaurant Manager

2. District Manager

3. Regional Vice-President

4. Concept Leader

The only complaint about my supervisor directly was that she continued to schedule me for overnight shifts after it made it aware to her that it was a hardship and that I was told when hired that it should only happen in rare circumstances for a manager of my level. I also mentioned in my testimony that after complaining to her she subsequently scheduled me an additional overnight shift the following week and made a comment to me about my complaining about the schedule. I admitted that I never brought it to her boss and never complained about it further though so I don't think that that aspect of my case will convince the judge.

The other complaints I testified to were with regard to work location and number of hours expected to work per week. My testimony stated that I brought the concerns about location to her and that she told be she'd check with her boss and that she did and that he told her to tell me that there was no availability at the location he promised me after my training was completed. It was on the record that I made 3 such complaints (stressing the hardship on my family responsibilities - thanks for the tip on that) over a 2 month period with the exact same outcome. Again, me and my advocate both think that the judge believed my testimony over their denial and if so, I believe that aspect of my case could be the decider.

Except: That they point out that the handbook states that requests for transfer must be made in writing (which never happened). Again, I admitted to never reading the handbook and stated that I was unaware of the policy. My advocate told me that is her only concern. I personally feel my honesty about not reading the book helps my overall credibility.

Again sorry about length just wanted you to have all the facts.

Thanks,

Scott

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Well, if I were the judge, raising the matter with your supervisor would be enough. In my opinion, the law doesn't require you to follow all the steps of your employer's procedure. The judge may or may not agree. The point is you made your employer aware of the unnecessary hardships they were imposing on you, and they didn't rectify the situation.

Scott 2 years ago

Thanks again for your insight. I just hope that my advocate and I are correct and that the judge does in fact believe my testimony over their denial. I'm sure I'll here of the outcome some time next week and when I do, I'll post it here.

Scott

Scott 2 years ago

I received my decision in the mail today and I lost. The judges reasoning: "The eveidence did not persuasively show that the claimant was in some way forced to quit. His separtation is therefore taken to have been voluntary.

The claimant asserted that the employer had made promises to him, concerning the terms and conditions of his employment, when he was interviewing for his position, and during his training, and that the employer failed to fulfill those promises. The claimant further asserted that this failure by the employer prompted his decision to resign. The employer witnesses, however, denied that such promises have been made and that the claimant ever complained about the employer's failure to follow through with those promises. There was no persuasive objective evidence to confirm the claimant's assertions. The claimant may have had good personal reasons for resigning his position, but the evidence was not sufficient to prove that those reasons amounted to good cause attributable to the employer. The redetermination should therefore be affirmed."

I have to say I am somewhat surprised because I strongly felt my testimony was more believable (especially since I know it was the truth) but I guess from now on I'll get terms from employers in writing to avoid something like this in the future. My question now is: Is it worth my time to appeal? And if so, on what grounds and how do I go about it?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I would appeal to the Board of Review. Just follow the instructions at the bottom of the decision. It doesn't cost anything. Your appeal must be received by the Board of Review within 30 days from the date of the decision. All you have to say is "I respectfully request a review of the judge's decision in my case. I don't believe it is consistent witht he facts and the law."

You could add---"When I was hired I was promised a job at a store near my home and a commitment was also made with regard to the hours I would be scheduled to work. I complained to my supervisor and explained why the distance and long hours were a hardship for me and my family I was rebuffed and given no hope that relief would be forthcoming." (Or words to that effect.)

You should discuss this with your advocate. He will receive a copy of the transcript of the hearing within a month or so. You could review the transcript and request an oral argument and point out anthing in the transcript with which you disagree. Don't wait for the transcript. Get your appeal in well before the 30 day deadline. You can email me through Hubpages. I would be interested to hear who the judge was in your case.

Confused 2 years ago

After reading Scotts situation above I am a little nervous, where prior to reading it, I thought I was going to win my case no problem!!! It is not the exact same situation but VERY similar. He quit.. informed UIA that he quit with his reasons, and UIA decided he was eligible to receive benefits based on the information he gave them.. Then UIA NOW decides that he should not have received those benefits. That is the same situation as me. I quit my part time job of 12 hours a week (which is not even enough hours to cover the cost of gas to get there) I put on my application for extended benefits that the reason I quit this job was "It was part time and NOT full time and the distance was too far based on my pay." UIA decided that was good enough reason to quit, they elected to send me benefits and now a year and 1/2 later change their mind based on the information they received from my employer. I informed my employer i was quitting because there may be a chance I have to move to Florida. (I didn't think at the time I needed to explain EVERYTHING to him) And everything being: When i was hired in at part time as an office assistant, I was informed he would add hours to my work week. After about a month of working there, I was NOT doing any office assistant work (cause there was none to do) he was pushing me to do marketing and event planning, which i am NOT suitable for, plus the average yearly pay for an office assistant and someone in marketing is about a $70,000.00 difference! I was not comfortable doing the marketing, he informed me that he would not be able to add any more add'l hours to my work week, I needed to look for full time employment or seriously consider moving to Florida, so i quit.. simple as that!!! UIA determined based on the information that i gave them (part time not full time and distance to far based on pay) Which is ONLY ONE of the reasons i quit, that i was eligible for benefits.. now they claim I lied. I thought for sure I would win this case when and if it comes down to a hearing, but after reading Scotts information above I am getting more and more upset!!!! What are your thoughts? My question that I keep repeating to myself is: UIA determines if i am eligible for benefits based on the information on my application, I did not lie on the application, so how can they just change their mind?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I think you had good cause under the statute for quitting. But the burden is on the claimant to establish good cause, and this is not easy. The basic law says that, absent a serious issue with the employer, a reasonable person will find another job before quitting the one he has. Your case is not a sure winner. It may depend on the luck of the draw, i.e., which judge your case is assigned to. Some are more sympathetic to claimants than others. My suggestion--get an advocate to assist you to present your side of the story at the hearing and tell the truth to the judge.

confused 2 years ago

But how can i fill out an application and they approve it and then change their mind? I don't get that! It was not ME that determined if i was eligible for unemployment, it was them. It wasn't until 2 weeks after I quit this job that I even received a notice in the mail stating I may be eligible for extended benefits. So I quit to quit... NOT to receive unemployment benefits. I even phonen them and said i don't think i would be eligible because i just up and quit my job, they told me on the phone that it was up to them to determine if i was eligible.. The UIA or anybody else for that matter can not send me a years worth of checks and then ask for them back X's 4.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

The unemployment agency is swamped. Errors in determinations and redeterminations are not uncommon. The ALJs do a better job of reaching the correct decision.

LaTour 2 years ago

I'm hoping you can give me valid advice. I was fired from my job in October. I had been absent many days due to the fact that I did not have child care the days my daughter was sick. I was forced to sign a paper at working stating that if I was absent again I would be terminated. On my last day I was late due to the fact that I overslept and was let go. I have filed for unemployment benefits and have been denied for "deliberate disregard of my employers interest", because I had control over the situation.Also, due to the fact that I have to stay home with my daughter when she is sick, I have been found "unsuitable for full time work".

Do you think I have a chance of getting unemployment if I request a redetermination? And if so, what should I include in my redetermination request?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Staying home to care for a sick child is not absence without reasonable cause, however, your absence due to oversleeping isn't likely to get much sympathy in your request for redetermination or from an administrative law judge. It might help if you could make arrangements for someone to be available to care for your child when he or she is sick. And you can point out that you were only absent one time other than the days when your child was sick. It doesn't cost anything to request a redetermination and a hearing before an administrative law judge. I wish I could be more encouraging, but I don't think your chances are very good.

donnitia 2 years ago

HI Mr. Deeds

I have just been denied my appeal to the first ruling stating I was disqualified for benefits under Mes act, 29 (1)(a) and I never quit my job. here's what happen I have been with this company for three yrs and voluntarily decided to transfer out of state to Ohio. so i found a house online. my employer gave me nine days to move before i was to start my new position. my last day of work was 7/31/09 and my old position and when I got to Ohio on 8/3/04 (which my new start date was 8/10/09 or a choice to start in September)there was still tenants occupying my new home so I contacted the landlord and he told me the old tenents aren't going to be out for another 30 days. so now me and my kids didn't have anywhere to stay so I called my old manager, union rep, and human resource office telling them of my situation and also sent and received texts saying the transfer had already gone through and there was nothing i could do and if I didn't show up on 8/10/09 i would be fired for no call no show. I was also told i could never work for the company again if i was fired. so i ask what was my next option since i didn't want to lose my job I asked to start the next training class or put me back at my old store since I had only been gone for 3 days and the position was still open. I was then told if I resign i could be rehired in 6 months and keep my seniority. Needless to say I couldn't show up and never heard anything else. so I filed unemployment and was denied. the second re-determination of my appeal also says "there was no new information provided the original determination is affirmed and you remain disqualified from receiving benefits." I am so upset because I didn't quit I did apply to transfer but as soon as I became aware of my situation I called them before I was even suppose to start they never tried to help me or my union. what advice can you please give me.

Sarah 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I left Chrysler via mass buyout offered in November 2008. I accepted the Voluntary Termination Incentive Program (VTIP). Through that program I did receive money. Before the buyout,a WARN notice was sent out and told a 25% reduction of non-union employees was required via the VTIP. If the 25% was not met, people would be laid off.

In October of 2009, after I had been out of work for 9 months, I applied for UIA benefits. In November I received two separate denials.

"You voluntary quit your employment with Chrysler LLC on 11/30/08 to accept the VTIP. Continuing work was available, therefore, your separation is considered to be voluntary & not attributable to the employer under the MES Act.

It is found that you voluntarily quit your job w/o good cause attributable to the employer. You are disqualified for benefits under MES Act, Sec. 29(1)(A)."

and

"You recieved a lump sum payment from Chrysler, LLC under the terms of the VTIP. Your employer has allocated this payment to a specific period. This payment is remuneration under the MES ACT. You are ineligible for benefits during the period of allocation.

You are ineligible for benefits under MES Act, sections 27(c) and 48, for the period shown. The payment you received from your employer is remuneration which equals or exceeds 1-1/2 times your weekly benefit rate.

You are ineligible for benefits from & thru:

10/4/09 - 6/12/09"

Can you give me any advise as I do plan to dispute this?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Sarah, I may be able to refer you to a guru advocate who has handled a number of Chrysler buyout cases. YOu can contact me by email through Hubpages and I'll give you his name and phone number. I haven't had any of these cases so I'm not sure of the answer. Sorry.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Sarah, Here's what the "guru" on Chrysler separations said--

"Obviously he needs to appeal the re-determination by requesting a hearing before an ALJ. The allocation period issue is a slam dunk winner as Chrysler never told any employee the lump sum was to be allocated over a period of time and in fact sent the money in one check. Therefore, it is allocated only to the week in which it was received.

Regarding vol leaving there are many underlying issues which could swing the ALJ decision. Such as was the employee told specifically he would loose his job? Was the employee already laid off? Was the employee in the jobs bank? etc. Need to talk specifics about the individual situation."

If you email me through HubPages I can provide you with his phone number and email address.

Dina 2 years ago

Hi Mr. Deeds,

I have a situation. I was recently approved for No Worker Left Behind funding to attend training for a new company residing in Ann Arbor, MI. I'm already employed but I make less than 40k a year, so I'm eligible for the tuition. The training is mandatory (Mon-Fri, 8am-5pm sessions) and my current employer is unable to adjust my hours so that I can attend, so I have to resign. This leaves me with no income (the NWLB training is unpaid) for almost two months.

Will I be eligible for any unemployment benefits? I've read through your site and I understand it's tough to receive benefits after quitting a position. But, if I qualify for NWLB, and I'm unable to work during this period, shouldn't I qualify for some type of funding in order to pay bills until training is complete?

I've spoken to an NWLB person about this and I was referred to UIA. UIA suggested I speak with someone from NWLB. In our second conversation, the NWLB rep told me to speak with an Employment Specialist (ES), and finally the ES suggested I talk to UIA.

Thank you for any assistance!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Dina, I'm sorry but I don't know the answer to your question. I would think that allowing you to collect benefits would be consistent with the purpose of the unemployment compensation statute. However, your employer may object to having your benefits charged against his account. Seems to me that benefits for people in your situation should come out of general unemployment compensation funds rather than being charged to an employer's account.

Dina 2 years ago

OK, thanks, I'll inquire about the general fund.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Dina, I'm not sure that that is the way they do it. It's the way I think they should do it.

Dina 2 years ago

Ah, I see. Ok. Thanks again.

Candy 2 years ago

Dina, whatever you do don't quit your job....No worker left behind is for those who currently unemployed and need job skills, you have a job, so No Worker left behind is not for you right not.........

Bob 2 years ago

Ralph,

Now that Chrysler has accepted money from the federal government to support its recovery, I wonder if there is some abligation, legal or otherwise, for the company to at least consider former employees for recently posted positions. As a VTIP from November 2008, I have been told by the search firms trying to fill these positions that they are interested in my qualifications, but that I am not eligible because of my VTIP status. It's been over a year. Is there really something legally preventing Chrysler from considering VTIPs.

Mike 2 years ago

Ralph,

I was "let go" from my job for being early.My usuall schedule is at 3:30 on wednesday.well they wanted to have a meeting at 2:00 pm.So i get to work rough at 1:30 punch in talk with the guys and wait for the meeting to start.We are allowed to punch in for the meeting by the way.So we have the meeting and after it i get called into my bosses office.He sits me down and says that the company is growing in different places and doesnt think i will accept the changes.So he says that i punched in at 1:30 and did not perform any warehouse duties.Keep in mind i didnt have to do anything i was there for a meeting.I figured if im there i should be geting paid for it.About a month prior to it on a holiday i took a compnay vehicle to go get food for all the guys working.I was blamed for stealing a gps that they could not prove and was suspended for two days.Basically harrassed about it and said they were going to turn it over the the police if it doesnt show back up.Well that all blows over then i get fired.I was rejected from unemployment i did apeal it.Its taking forever to hear back from them.Do you think i have a chance at geting it.I busted my butt for the company and worked as much as possible and every shift possible.Only guy there for a year.Another reason i think they wanted to fire me was so they didnt have to give me a raise....im lost on it.and with this economy its very hard to find another decent job.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Bob, I'm sorry, but I don't know the answer to your question. I haven't seen the terms of the Chrysler buyout program. However, I suspect that it provides that you may not be re-hired by Chrysler. My suspicion is that there is not any legal impediment to Chrysler re-hiring you if they chose to do so because they couldn't find someone with your skills and experience.

Mike, The incidents you described don't sound to me as if they amount to misconduct under Michigan law. If I were you I would appeal all the way to the Board of Review if necessary. In the meantime keep certifying in accordance with Unemployment Insurance Agency procedures. Good luck.

James 2 years ago

Ralph, I was wondering if I could get your take on an appeal for me.

I was denied unemployment due to sec. 29(1)(B). Without going into too much detail about the events, I was deemed to have breached confidentiality by requesting one customer to have another customer call me if they see them (and did not tell the person specifically that that person was a customer). My employer deemed that to be a breach of confidentiality at the bank and stated: "Due to this event, a write-up for incorrect operational procedures (from June), and the fact that you will be leaving for graduate school in the fall we feel it is best to part ways now."

I am now submitting my appeal tomorrow, and was planning on moving to Colorado in February. Do you have any advice on what I should plan to do if a hearing is needed? Thank you in advance.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

James, Sorry for the slow reply. I was out of town visiting relatives over the Christmas holiday. From your comment it sounds to me like you should be eligible for benefits. You should receive a notice of hearing at the mailing address on file at the unemployment agency. Make sure it is forwarded to you in Colorado or that someone picks it up and gives you a call. Then call the judge's office and request a telephone hearing. Also, you'll receive a list of advocates in the mail. It would be to your advantage to arrange for an advocate to assist you prepare for the hearing. Good luck!

Margie 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

For three years I worked at a popular children's retail store as a full time member of management. In the summer of 2008, I had an emotional breakdown and took approximately 6 weeks medical leave under FMLA. Unfortunately, I didn't make a full recovery and in December of 2008 I ended up spending one week in the hospital and another three months not working as part of my recovery. My employer's short term disability insurance covered my time away and my position was held for me by my employer.

However, upon my return, I discovered that my company had changed hands meaning that policies had changed. I was given 4 hours to catch up on 3 months worth of company communications, daily emails, and was expected to immediately know the new lingo and promotions. I also found that I had a store manager, an interim store manager and two other assistant managers. It was a lot to take in and I asked my employer to give me a couple of weeks to adjust to such overwhelming changes. This was all on the first day back. On my second day back at work, the district manager came in and administered 3 seperate "final written warnings" to me: one for dress code violation, one for inappropriate language and one for theft. I absolutely did not steal anything, in fact the date that the accusation was made, I was in the hospital. Realizing that my employer was considering me a liability and would not let up on the emotional abuse, I asked to step down from my position and take a part time position with less responsibility. The district manager refused, saying that my position required me to work full time. Nearing another breakdown, I resigned my position. I informed my interim store manager of my decision and asked her to put me on the list of seasonal employees. She agreed.

I did not immediately file for benefits, in fact I waited almost 7 months. I was granted unemployment benefits and after beginning college courses received a training waiver. Unfortunately, after two determinations and redeterminations, my former employer is still fighting my claim. I received a list of advocated from the UIA and due to the lack of incentive that advocates are offered, there are none willing to take my case. Sixteen of the names on the list provided are in Detroit while I reside in the tip of the mitt. I have no idea what to do to assure myself success in my ALJ hearing that is in 7 days. Any advice, cited case laws, or interpretations of the unemployment laws would be greatly appreciated.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Perhaps it would be better if you emailed me through Hubpages and we could discuss your issues privately. Perhaps I could help you find an advocate. Some advocates participate in hearings by telephone. That would probably be better than not having an advocate.

The burden will be on you to convince the judge that you had good cause attributable to your employer for resigning. It sounds to me as if you did, but the legal hurdle is pretty high. The law provides that a reasonable person will find another job before quitting the one he or she has unless there is a convincing reason attributable to the employer which would cause a reasonable person to resign. In your circumstances, your health issues combined with the situation at your employer in my opinion made your decision to resign a reasonable one. In your testimony, in my opinion, you should explain why your health and the unreasonable approach by your employer gave you no choice but to resign. In this website above there is a digest of significant cases. Here http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig You can read the relevant cases under the heading "Voluntary Leaving."

Good luck!

htaylor 2 years ago

what if I was recieving unemployment with a part-time job and was offered full time but found another job that was only part time but would pay more and that would bring more money home,even with part-time hours, if I were to leave the full time job for the part time job that paid more, could I still recieve unemploymnet benefits?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

My understanding is that the amount of your earnings determines whether you are eligible for benefits and the amount of your unemployment benefit, not whether the job is full-time or part time.

cmboevers 2 years ago

I was terminated from my position after 5 years for violating a company policy that does not exist. I have currently waiting for a redetermination decision. I have never applied for unemployment benefits before and am a little confused. My original determination stated that I was disqualified for week ending 11/14/2009 until completion of a $4,590.00 earnings rework requirement which has not been satisfied. I have an opportunity to work for a temporary position that should pay the rework requirement before the position is terminated; at this time I will reapply for unemployment benefits. My questions are:

1. Would I receive benefits for both the temporary position and my former position of five years? Could my former employer continue to fight my claim and would accepting the temporary position change the amount and length of my benefits?

2. If the redetermination rules in my favor would I collect benefits for the period I was unemployed until I started the temporary position?

3. I have been attending an online university to complete my Bachelor’s Degree, would NWLB pay towards the next two years?

This is an incredible site and a wonderful source of information for those of us who suddenly find ourselves facing the possibility of loosing everything and feel we have no where to turn for answers.

Thank you

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

If you were terminated for violating a non-existent policy you should not be disqualified for benefits for misconduct, unless whatever you did was on its face clearly intentional and against the interest of your employer. Any previous write-ups, warnings or discipline in the recent past would also be considered. The burden of proof rests with the employer to prove misconduct by direct, first-hand sworn testimony at the hearing before the administrative law judge.

If you prevail on the redetermination or on appeal to an administrative law judge you will be eligible for benefits. I'm not sure what you mean by "temporary position." The effect of that position on your eligibility will depend on the amount you earn each week in that position. If those earnings are high enough they will disqualify you or reduce the unemployment benefits for which you may be eligible. In the meantime you should continue to report to MARVIN in accordance with UIA procedures until your case is finally resolved. Any earnings from a temporary position will count toward your re-work requirement in the event you lose your case.

If the redetermination or ALJ decision is in your favor you will receive benefits for the period you were unemployed provided you reported as required to MARVIN during the period. Whether you would be eligible for benefits for the period after accepting the "temporary position" would depend on the earnings from that job which you would be required to report to MARVIN.

I don't understand your question 3. What is NWLB?

Jess 2 years ago

Hi I have to go to court against my previous employer on Jan 20th I talked to you about this a few months ago. My boss has been trying to fight it and so far the unemployment office is taking my side against his. I would like to get a rep to represent me in court but I got the papers only monday I called monday and they told me they would send me a list of papers in the mail with information about representatives. Do you think I have enough time to get someone to represent me is there a way I can find a rep before the paperwork comes in the mail thanks so much. I worked at this company for 10 years and I never once got a write up or a verbal warning. I would like an advocate even if its only by telephone any help you can give me would be great I don't have a lot of time thanks so much:)

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

If you email me through HubPages I can provide you with a couple of names of competent advocates.

rdelp profile image

rdelp 2 years ago

Wow Ralph...you are the man helping a lot of people out at this tough time. I have quite a few friends of mine that are unemployed and struggling to find a good quality job.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

rdelp, Thanks for you kind comment. I'm retired and have plenty of time on my hands. Times are tough in Michigan and not likely to get better soon I fear.

Scott 2 years ago

Ralph,

About 6 weeks ago I lost an ALJ hearing involving voluntary leaving from my previous employer. You told me that after I request an appeal from the Board of Review and receive a copy of the transcript, I can send them an appeal letter citing specific reasons or testimony that I don't agree with from the transcript.

I received the transcript in the mail today and it has intructions on how to submit a written argument. Is a written argument the same thing as the appeal letter you were referring to?

Thanks,

Scott

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Well, I think the appeal letter I referred to may have been the initial appeal which had to be received by the Board of Review within 30 days. Your written argument can be in the form of a letter or a statement with page and line references to portions of the transcript testimony with which you disagree or which you wish to emphasize. You should just tell the B.O.R. why you don't think the judge's decision is correct on the facts and/or the law.

Scott 2 years ago

That's where my question arises. To submit a written arguement, my appeal information states that the BOR will consider written arguement ONLY IF: 1) It is received no later than 20 days from the date of mailing of my transcipt to me AND 2) It is accompanied by a statement of service on the other party AND 3) May be submitted only if both parties are represented by attorneys or agents OR, when only one or neither party is represented, written consent, signed by both parties, is submitted. The consent must accompany the argument.

1) I get that part, pretty self explanitary.

2) Not sure I get that. I know what a statement of service is but I'm unsure of what I'd be serving the other party. A copy of my written argument?

3) Since at this point I'm representing myself, do I really have to hope that this employer is going to consent to me submitting a written argument? (Which I'm sure they won't considering they already lied, won, and I doubt will consent to making any of this easier on me.)

Once again, thanks for all your help.

Scott

Melissa 2 years ago

kdkd

Melissa 2 years ago

Ralph,

I was recently fired for excessive absenteeism. Can you shed some light on whether or not I stand a chance appealing the decision of which I was found ineligable? I was given a warning that I could not miss any more work or be tardy indefinitely and woke up late one day and got fired.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Your chances depend on how many times you were absent and why you were absent, and how long it had been before you overslept since your last abscnce or tardiness. Oversleeping is not an acceptable reason for being late to work IF you already have a poor attendance record. However, absence or being late per se is not misconduct. To be misconduct absence or tardiness must be for reasons beyond your control--illness, need to care for a sick child, being summoned for a court appearance. The more absences or tardies you have the harder the judge will look at the reasons for your absence, and he will shift the burden of proof from your employer to you.

Here's a paragraph on this subject from the webpage, above:

Some employers use automatic point systems to discipline for absence or tardiness which do not take into account the reasons for the absence or tardiness. Most judges do not consider automatic point systems valid for establishing misconduct under unemployment compensation statutes. Absence, per se, is not misconduct. Only absence without reasonable cause is misconduct--illness or child care needs, court appearances and the like are not absence without reasonable cause. Of course, the more tardinesses and absences there are, the more skeptical the judges are of the employee and the more likely they are to find misconduct. Medical records and other tangible evidence can be helpful in establishing good cause for absences in unemployment compensation hearings. In Michigan, a court decision has said that in cases where an employee has been absent or tardy many times the burden shifts from the employer to the employee to establish that his absences should have been excused because of illness or other good reason.

Jen 2 years ago

the uia stated that my husband was eligible for benefits even though his employer was listed as a quit. they paid almost 9200.00 in benefits and are now requesting that we pay this back. any advice on how we can get them to waive what we owe? they should have never made the determination that he was elegible and paid benefits to him.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

It's hard for me to advise you without seeing the case file. If you disagree with the decision you can request a hearing before an administrative law judge. You can also request the agency waive the repayment if the improper payment was not the fault of your husband.

Section 62(a) provides in part as follows:

"Furthermore, except in a case of an intentional false statement, misrepresentation, or concealment of material information, the commission may waive recovery of an imporperly paid benefit if the payment was not the fault of the individual and if repaymennt would be contrary to equity and good conscience."

There is one case which was appealed to an administrative law judge, to the board of review and to circuit court in which the court referred the case back to the unemployment agency to "exercise its discretion" with regard to waiver of restitution of the erroneously paid benefits. The case is MESC v Miller, No. 82-004889 AE, Tuscola Circuit Court 9June 13, 1983)

Jeremiah 2 years ago

I just received an "Inquiry Regarding Possible Overpayment" letter from the Michigan Unemployment Insurance Agency. My last temp agency denied benefits request this past October after my assignment had officially ended (over a period of 4 months), however the Unemployment agency stated I could keep drawing it from my previous employer. So I've been collecting unemployment for the past 5 months.

It turns out that the temp agency stated that I quit in order to take a job with it's client (which is out of state). The end of the contract date was set regardless, but I did not accept employment from the client since they would not pay for relocation and the move was not in the best interest of my family at the time.

The Unemployment Agency states I may have intentionally misled them and that I could have been overpaid. I would have to pay 4x the amount that I've received over the past 5 months. I have a few questions for those who have been in a similar situation:

1. The letter asks for the name of the client company I supposedly went to work for. I'm assuming this information was not divulged by the temp agency. I'm wondering if I just respond that I was offered an out of state job, but due to family circumstances could not accept it, if I would still be eligible for benefits?

2. After I respond, will the Unemployment Agency actually contact my old temp company and re-verify the information? Would they go so far as to contact the potential out of state client I declined work from?

3. If the Unemployment Agency does a re-determination and finds that I do owe them, how do I go about appealing? Will they just setup payment arrangements, or will I have to attend a hearing?

Would prefer answers from individuals with experience with this type of situation.

Thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

You are obligated to respond truthfully to Agency requests for information. After you respond the Agency will issue a redetermination and give the employer an opportunity to respond and/or appeal. If the agency issues a re-determination that you were ineligible and are required to make restitution they will explain how to appeal their decision to a hearing before an administrative law judge. I wonder if the temp agency is claiming that you decilined an offer of work from the agency. That would be a problem. I don't believe declining an out of state offer would render you ineligible. [My experience is in Michigan. Procedures in other states are similar but my differ in significant respects.]

If anyone else has had a similar situation, please comment.

hopeful, but confused 2 years ago

Hi there Mr. Deeds,

I have been fighting for unemployment since 12-20-09, instead of going into all the grueling details... I will give you the jest of the last "notice of redetermination of a determination" letter I received in the mail today. This is the first time I am applying for unemployment; and I need to hear this in Layman's terms please. I am going to state this paragraph by paragraph basically, and ask you what does this mean..thanks!

It states that I protested the determination issued on 1-12-10. That I quit my job for personal reasons. (This was a dental emergency root canals for my teenage son- work said it would be a voluntary quit if I did not show up for my scheduled work the following day, there were a few more issues around this episode) States my leaving was deemed voluntary- not the fault of the employer. Determination is modified to notify the correct employer and to correct the period of disqualification.

It is found that you voluntarily quit your job without good cause attributable to the employer. You are disqualified for benefits under mes act, sec.29.

You are qualified for week ending 12-19-09 until completion of a $1680.00 earnings rework requirement which has not been satisfied...????(First question, what?!)

In addition,

You timely protested the determination issued 1-12-10. The information you origianlly provided indicated you may hae limited you availability due to childcare issues. (This was false, which I informed them- my kids at home are 15 and 16) A review of the facts and your protest show you were fully available for work and did not have child care issues. It is found you do meet the availability requirements. The determination is reversed.

You are eligible for benefits under sec 28 of the mes act for the period shown because it is found that you were available for suitable full time work.

Okay Mr.Deed,

This is the lastest as of today...

Am I eligible now, if I compute that they were going to allow me 140.00 a week of unemployment.. that would be 12 weeks.. does this mean that mid-February my weeks denied is my rework payment? Yes, I am confused...thanks for any enlightment that you may offer. :)

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Sounds to me as if you will soon be getting a benefit check. Sometimes it takes longer than desirable. The unemployment agency is very busy these days. I'm not sure I understand your last question. I would have to study your file in order to do so.

hopeful but confused 2 years ago

Thanks...

Just in that same letter says I was disqualified at one point and would have to rework 1680.00 (think that computes to my waiting 12wks at 140.00)which would be mid-march...then at the bottom under the "in addition" it says i am now meeting the avalibility issues and am eligible at that the decision is reversed. For being a "newbie" no wonder i am confused..lol.. but ty for some good news!

al 2 years ago

Ralph,

I am in Sales and was let go on 12/3/09. I filed for unemployment on 12/11/09. I qualified for benefits and was supposed to report to MARVIN by 12/25/09 for w/e 12/12/09 & 12/19/09, but did not do so until 12/28/09. I was denied benefits for those 2 weeks. I stated that it was my first time applying for unemployment and did it all online and was overwhelmed by the process. They determined that I am ineligible for benefits for those 2 weeks due to failing to report (certify) as directed and had no good cause for failing to report (certify).

The same thing happened for the weeks ending 1/2/10, 1/9/10 and 1/15/10, as I did not report until 1/18/10.

Since no payments were showing up in my bank account, I inquired on 2/2/10 and was told that my untimely reporting was the casue and they took my statement. Now I understand which exact days I need to report and don't foresee any problems moving forward.

My question is what legal ground do I have in appealing their decision? What is considered "good cause" for late reporting. I am in financial trouble and really am counting on that money...

Your help is greatly appreciated!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

You have little or no basis for appealing. The unemployment agency is very strict about reporting requirements. You practically have to be in hospitalized and in a coma for them to excuse you for not reporting. My understanding is that you will still get the full number of weeks of benefit entitlement at the end of your eligibility assuming you are still unemployed and available and looking for work and comply with all of the Agency's requirements. Read the GREEN BOOK and follow all the instructions carefully!

tkowens1971 2 years ago

Mr.Deeds if your protest for an appeal is reversed in the case of improperly receiving wages.When does reimbursement take place?Is it after the 30 days when the decision becomes final or does it automatically happen on the day of the ruling by the Administrative Law Judge?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I'm not sure how long the Unemployment Agency takes to implement judges' decisions. When the judge issues his decision he sends a copy to the employer, to the claimant and to the Unemployment Insurance Agency. I've heard from claimants that the Agency doesn't take very long to implement judges' decisions and the Agency doesn't wait 30 days to get a check out to the claimant. The check goes out in compliance with the judge's decision whether or not the employer appeals the decision to the Board of Review. If the Board of Review reverses the judge's decision the Agency will attempt to get the claimant to make restitution for any benefits he received to which he was not entitled.

hopeful but confused 2 years ago

MY last question really was- does "rework" to requalify after a "quit" mean that you can either find employment if so lucky, or wait the alloted amount of weeks before receiving a check? My amount of 1680- would compute to 12x 140.00 (my week benefit amount) and since I filed 12/20- I am thinking mid-March.

It would be alot simpler if things were worded, that now you are approved... and can expect a check around 4/15. Would be nice if there were a way on my pc to translate these letters to layman terms..

Have a great evening!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Re-work means that you have to be employed for the specified number of weeks in an occupation covered by the unemployment compensation statute. That is, if you work as an independent contractor you would not build up any UC credits.

al 2 years ago

Thanks Ralph... I'm going to appeal anyway and see what happens.

Carla 2 years ago

Hi,

My husband got laided off a year ago from a company here in Michigan and was on unemployment. He recently found a 30 hr per week contract position but it is only for one month but with an option for the company to hire him on at the end if he works out well. If at the end of the month they don't hire him will he still be able to get his unemployment? Thank you so much!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

He should be eligible. But he should be very careful to report the end of his assignment immediately to the temp agency. If he fails to do that he will be ruled ineligible for unemployment benefits. When he reports the end of his assignment he should carefully note the date and time and who he reported to. Some cheesy temporary employment agencies will do everything they can to prevent their employees from getting unemployment benefits.

Carla 2 years ago

Thanks Ralph! He isn't through a temp agency, he found the contract position on his own during one of his MANY online searches. Does he need to report it to someone else?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

No. He should apply for benefits when his job ends and be sure to read the green book an comply with all the instructions. It's especially important to call MARVIN in accordance with the instructions to certify that he is unemployed, available for work and seeking work. Good luck to him.

Scott 2 years ago

You've helped me with my quit claim recently and had some questions about my next-door neighbor's claim. He had an ALJ hearing set for last Thursday. On Wednesday evening, the Board of Review office called and said the employer requested and was granted a postponment due to a sick witness. Two days later, he got this in the mail:

"Order Cancelling Hearing"

"On December 29, 2009 the employer appealed a redetermination issued by the UIA on Dec 21, 2009. A hearing on the appeal was scheduled to be held before the undersigned ALJ at Livonia, MI, on 2/11/10 at 11:30am. On 2/10/10 the Michigan Employment Security Board of Review advised the State Office of Administrative Hearings and Rules that pursuant to Rule 421.1309, Rule 309, Employment Security Board of Review Rules and Practice, it had stayed this matter pending before the ALJ and that further proceedings are suspended until further notice. Accordingly the ALJ lacks the authority at this time to hear and decide the appeal.

The hearing scheduled to be held at Livonia, MI, 02/11/10, beginning at 11:30am is hereby cancelled, until further order of the Board of Review."

Is this just a fancy way of saying it was postponed or did they just cancel it altogether?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Scott, I'm pretty sure that it means that the hearing is stayed (postponed) and will be rescheduled at a later date. He could call the Board of Review and inquire. The number is 1-800-738-6372.

Scott 2 years ago

As always, thanks. I'll advise him.

Michelle 2 years ago

I was fired from my job back in July via a letter left on my desk after I left for the day. I filed for unemployment and my employer appealed it and we had to go in front of an administrative law judge (i received benefits the entire time). While there they told many lies about my work performance that myself and the judge caught. I won the case and am receiving benefits. I just filed for the first extension and a few days ago I received a verification of availability to employer letter stating that they now had work for me. I know they only did this because they do not want to pay me unemployment no more. I do not want to go back there after they fired me for no reason and told many lies about me not to mention this is a very small office with only 3 employees, but I went to see what they had to say and they offered me a part-time job making $2 less than before. I declined the offer. Will I no longer be able to receive unemployment for not accepting this position?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Refusing an offer of work raises raises a question about your eligibility. The unemployment insurance statute requires you to be unemployed, available and seeking suitable employment. Turning down an offer of suitable employment would cause you to be ineligible for benefits. The definition of "suitable employment" is not precise. The question facing you is whether a job with your former employer is suitable. The answer might depend on how much your hourly rate was before you were laid off and therefore what percentage the $2 reduction represents. One court case ruled that a 17% pay reduction was good cause for quitting. By that standard if you were previously making around $11/hour or less you could argue that the part-time offer was unsuitable. If your former job provided benefits in addition to hourly pay and the offer you received did not, this would also be a factor in favor of your argument that the job offered was not "suitable."

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Michigan warns jobless about end of federal unemployment extension

State warns 500K recipients that extension will end Feb. 28 if Congress fails to renew it

Louis Aguilar / The Detroit News

The state's unemployment insurance agency sent letters to an estimated half-million Michiganians receiving jobless pay, warning that federally funded benefit extensions may not be renewed.

"The federally funded Emergency Unemployment Compensation is set to expire on Feb. 28, 2010," said Stephen Geskey, director of Michigan's Unemployment Insurance Agency. "If Congress does not pass legislation to extend the deadline for this and other federally funded benefits, then thousands of unemployed Michigan workers will begin to exhaust their benefits starting in March."

Congress has not yet approved funding to continue four tiers of the Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC) program, which now pays up to 53 weeks of jobless benefits in Michigan; the Extended Benefit program (EB), which pays up to 20 weeks benefits; and the Federal Additional Compensation (FAC) program that pays an extra $25 per week.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100218/BIZ/2180356/10

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Detroit Free Press Editorial

Families, and states, need jobless benefits extended

In a state like Michigan, the stakes are huge as Congress dawdles over renewing federal unemployment benefit extensions. Some 540,000 people here draw unemployment. More than half have already exhausted their basic state benefit and are now solely on the federal extension.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100219/OPINION01/21

Candy 2 years ago

Hi Ralph....it's Candy from 3 months ago, remember; (members of the Board of Review) suggestion that I get a remand/rehearing due to Michigan Unemployment law; 421.29 states the following; “that if an individual has an established benefit year in effect and during that benefit year leaves unsuitable work within 60 days after the beginning of that work the leaving does not disqualify the individual”, in my case I only work for 6 of 10 days with this temp agency, and this was an effort on the temp agency behalf not to pay unemployment from a benefit year that was already established from the previous year (2007)not from the 6 of 10 days that I worked in 2008. I try to get them change the hours and/or re-assign me to another job they never try to accommodate me what so ever.....I am trying to kept the faith in the State of Michigan being fair (that's all I ask)and that the truth and justice will prevail. Pray for me..cause I am dying here slowly,as of today I am still waiting on that remanded or rehearing from the B.O.R...been waiting since September 1, 2009....I've called and called and all I get is "your case is still pending" is there some one in upper mgmt/congess/gov/state representive that I can talk to at the B.O.R...who dose the B.O.R answer to? this was by their suggestion...why is it taking so long? the prior determination by the BOR only took 2 months...

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Candy, the Board of Review is likely working on a big backlog of cases. And sometimes the difficult ones take longer. The members of the Board of Review are appointed by the governor. But once they are appointed they act independently of the Governor's Office. You might consider contacting your state representative or senator and ask them to contact the Board of Review on your behalf. I doubt that a contact would influence their decision one way or the other but it might speed your case up a bit. Many of the temp agencies are very tenacious in their efforts to prevent people from getting unemployment benefits.

Jillian Vernier 2 years ago

I voluntary quit my job on 2/2010 after 10 years because the new secretary since 9/2009 to present has continually messed up my payroll. (shorted my paycheck more than 3 times,even during an FMLA period I took) Could I qualify for MI UIA benefits? How do I start my claim? Any advice would be great, Thank you!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Senator Jim Bunning of Kentucky throws a bad pitch:

WASHINGTON — A partisan impasse in the Senate will cause unemployment benefits to run out for thousands of Americans beginning next week after the Senate was unable on Friday to temporarily extend the jobless pay.

Insisting that the unemployment money be offset by other savings rather than added to the deficit, Senator Jim Bunning, Republican of Kentucky, refused to allow the Senate to take up a House measure that provided another 30 days of aid and also prevented a cut in Medicare fees paid to physicians.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/27/us/27cong.html?s

Jillian Vernier 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds; it sounds like you know quite a bit about MI Unemployment, maybe you can help me. Can you tell me if quitting a job because of arbitrary changes in someones pay is a reasonable reason to quit and gain UIA benefits? Please read my statement above and respond if you are available. Thank you.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Jillian, the basic rule is that if you quit your job you are not eligible for benefits UNLESS the employer gives good cause for quitting. One case ruled that a 17% pay cut was good cause for quitting. Elimination or reduction in health care insurance or other benefits can also be considered good cause for quitting. If you can prove that your pay check was shorted three times that would be a factor in your favor. The unemployment agency has several "Problem Resolution Offices" where you could go and speak face to face with an agency representative. I've heard that the people at the Pontiac office are quite helpful. Here is a list of the offices:

PRO Locations:

*

Detroit (temporary) - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-500, Detroit, MI 48202

*

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

*

Grand Rapids - 3391A Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

*

Kalamazoo (temporary) - Kalamazoo County DHS, 322 East Stockbridge Ave., Kalamazoo, MI 49001

*

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

*

Livonia - 33523 W. 8 Mile Rd., Livonia, MI 48152

*

Mt. Clemens (temporary) - Macomb County DHS, 21885 Dunham Rd., Suite 7, Clinton Twp., MI 48036

*

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

*

Muskegon (temporary) - Muskegon County DHS, 2700 Baker St., Muskegon Heights, MI 49444

*

Pontiac (temporary) - 51111 Woodward Ave., MI 48432

*

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

Jillian Vernier 2 years ago

Thank you.

Cynthia 2 years ago

Dear Mr. Deeds: I have been collecting unemployment benefits for 8 weeks and have not been able to find other employment. I have signed up with a temp agency in hopes of finding temporary employment. My question is this: For each week I work for the temp agency and I make more than my unemployment benefit amount that week is the 26 weeks of state unemployment extended or pushed forward? If I make less than my unemployment benefit amount in a week and I receive any cash from the state that week does that count as part of the 26 weeks? Thank you

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Cynthia, Yes, I believe the 26 weeks of eligibility is pushed forward. I believe that partial benefits do count toward the 26 weeks.

Warning: Beware that when an assignment through a temp agency comes to an end for whatever reason you are obligated to notify the temp agency within 7 days or you will be deemed to have voluntarily resigned and disqualified from benefits from then on until you requalify. This is a little Catch 22 which is used by some temp agencies to prevent people from getting benefits to which they deserve to be entitled. Also, some temp agencies offer jobs to people who are on layoff which are distant from where they live expecting them to decline the offer and disqualify themselves from benefits.

Good luck.

PastorAndrew profile image

PastorAndrew Level 1 Commenter 2 years ago

Thanks for the info. It is good to see another Claimant Advocate on here. But I am only a "baby hubber" . . . only 5 months. Do you only handle hearings in Lansing?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

State jobless rate shows stability, declines to 14.3%

BY JOHN GALLAGHER

FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER

Michigan began 2010 with a lower unemployment rate, posting a 14.3% mark in January, down two-tenths of a percentage point from December's revised rate of 14.5%.

The slight decline means that Michigan -- while still posting the highest jobless rate in the nation -- has continued to stabilize for the past several months after a sharp rise in early 2009.

Michelle 2 years ago

Hello Mr Deed.

I have been unemployed in Michigan for over a year now. My first benefit year just came to an end. I filed a new claim with a customer representative on the phone and was told that I will be denied due to not having enough in wages to qualify. But as long as the extensions continue I would collect them on the old claim. My question for you is if I am going to be denied does unemployment still send a letter to all employers involved in the new claim? The reason I ask this is because I had a bad experience with a temp agency and of course since I had earnings from them they came up when I filed the new claim. The amount of wages was only $800. After reading some of the postings about temp agencies on here I am afraid that I may find myself in a similiar situation and my old claim will be affected.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Sorry, but I don't know the answer to your question. I've heard that the Pontiac "Problem Resolution Office" of the Unemployment Insurance Agency provides good help to claimants.

Here's a list of the PROs. They provide an opportunity to discuss problems face-to-face with a real live human being. Be sure and bring all your paperwork.

PRO Locations:

*

Detroit (temporary) - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-500, Detroit, MI 48202

*

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

*

Grand Rapids - 3391A Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

*

Kalamazoo (temporary) - Kalamazoo County DHS, 322 East Stockbridge Ave., Kalamazoo, MI 49001

*

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

*

Livonia - 33523 W. 8 Mile Rd., Livonia, MI 48152

*

Mt. Clemens (temporary) - Macomb County DHS, 21885 Dunham Rd., Suite 7, Clinton Twp., MI 48036

*

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

*

Muskegon (temporary) - Muskegon County DHS, 2700 Baker St., Muskegon Heights, MI 49444

*

Pontiac (temporary) - 51111 Woodward Ave., MI 48432

*

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

Michelle 2 years ago

Thank you for the information.

And thank you for this informative website.

John Smith 2 years ago

I had been collecting unemployment benefits for 20 weeks. Recently, I was hired at a company but after 8 days was let go because it was a family member who hired me. I want to requalify for unemployment but concern that they (Unemployment) will contact this employer and find out that I was fired and why I was fired. Will unemployment call this company??

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

The Unemployment Insurance Agency (Michigan) will contact your employer. Whether you are ruled eligible will depend on the information on the circumstances of your termination provided to the Agency by your employer and on the information you furnish to the Agency with your application for benefits.

Frank Rizzo 2 years ago

Dear Mr. Deeds,

My sister and her husband were self employed. Their business failed 2 years ago due to the economy after 3 years of very hard work.

They have been told that since they were self employed, they cannot collect unemployment. My sister was diagnosed with Stage 4 Breast Cancer and has been undergoing treatment for two years. My brother - law is 62 and finding it very difficult to land a job in the field he was in prior to owning the business.

Do they have any options to collect unemployment, diability or something? It's a tough situation with healthcare and expenses.

Thanks in advance for your response.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Frank, I don't have any ideas that would help your brother-in-law qualify for unemployment benefits. Here's a link to the Helping Hand website which might be able to help them--

http://www.michigan.gov/helpinghand

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Frank, it might be advisable, just to make sure, for your brother-in-law to go to one of the UIA's Problem Resolution Offices where he could speak to an agency representative face-to-face about his situation. Here's a list of the offices:

#

Detroit (temporary) - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-500, Detroit, MI 48202

#

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

#

Grand Rapids - 3391 Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

#

Kalamazoo (temporary) - Kalamazoo County DHS, 322 East Stockbridge Ave., Kalamazoo, MI 49001

#

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

#

Livonia - 33523 W. 8 Mile Rd., Livonia, MI 48152

#

Mt. Clemens (temporary) - Macomb County DHS, 21885 Dunham Rd., Suite 7, Clinton Twp., MI 48036

#

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

#

Muskegon (temporary) - Muskegon County DHS, 2700 Baker St., Muskegon Heights, MI 49444

#

Pontiac (temporary) - 51111 Woodward Ave., MI 48432

#

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

Peter Dier 2 years ago

If I failed the drug screening, which I am contesting. Will the company disclose that information to Unemployment. And if so, will that disqualify me from re-establishing my unemployment benefits.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Your employer will be required to respond to an Unemployment Insurance Agency questionnaire regarding the circumstances of your termination. If your were terminated for testing positive for a controlled substance it is likely that your employer will disclose that to the Unemployment Agency. The Michigan Unemployment Compensation statute is tough on use of "controlled substances." Twenty-six weeks' work are required to re-qualify for benefits. This is double the re-work requirement for other violations.

However, as you may know, the statute requires that in order to establish misconduct a drug test must be performed in a non-discriminatory manner pursuant to a collective bargaining agreement or a published company rule or policy. Also, a confirmatory test must be performed if requested by the employee. Also, you may want to read some of the court decisions on what constitutes a proper procedure for drug tests here--

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Paul, You are welcome to give me a call. My number is on the list.

kingn0thing 2 years ago

Thanks for providing this information, I'm sure many will benefit from this hub.

Diane M 2 years ago

I filed for unemployment 11/09 after my employer wouldn't let me return to work without a medical statement from my physician saying that I would never get sick on the job again which was totally unreasonable. I had a previous claim earlier that year through my other company from which I was laid off so my benefits were picked up under the previous employer's claim. They started a new claim 2/10 for my most recent employer and I have been receiving benefits. Today I received a letter from MI UIA stating that my most recent employer "has work available for me." and that I must take the letter to the employer and have them fill it out. Since I've been unemployed I had both of my vehicles repossessed and have no transportation to this location about 25 miles away - into Ohio. My public transportation doesn't go that far. Am I able to use this as a valid reason to decline employment? Also, according to their website they are not currently hiring in MI or OH. Any info would be appreciated, thanks!

Macdoctor56 2 years ago

Mr.Deeds

Here's my story, I hope you might have an answer. I was let go from my job on Aug 15Th, I filed for my unemployment but was denied. I followed the appeal process and was denied again.

I went for my unemployment appeal back in Dec of 09 in front of the employment judge. The employer didn't bring a copy of the rules and couldn't produce them when the judge asked for a copy. There was not one shred of evidence that what I did was deliberately done to hurt the company, it was tech error, bad judgement on my part. I told a customer he didn't have a grounded outlet in the room I needed to work in, he would have to get an electrician to rewire it for him. There was so many newspapers and objects in front of the plugs I couldn't properly check it, we're not allowed to move any of the customers property out of our way so I did a visual inspection of the wire in the basement and thought it wasn't grounded. It turns out the outlet was grounded so the company claimed I did a customer mistreat as the reason for letting me go. The employer brought up a few other reasons, here's an example, I forgot to turn in a piece of paperwork one night after work was completed so I was wrote up for that. I put gas in my company truck during the day, but it's supposed to be done at night , I was wrote up for that. My advocate shot them down one by one which the employer had no answer for. He even told the Judge I was a good technician. I brought in our Chief Union steward as a witness and he told the judge the Union felt I was being targeted because I was a steward and the union was going to fight the company for my job back. My advocate told me before we went in that this judge was new and already had a reputation of siding with the employer,my advocate couldn't believe we lost the appeal, the judge said he didn't find my story credible. My advocate even filed the new appeal to go to the next step for me, she was dumbfounded that I lost. My question is, Is there any timeline to expect on the case, it's been almost 3 months since we appealed and I'm still waiting for a decision. Also, how often does the new judgement go in favor of the employee and last, if I lose this appeal, from what you read would you take this appeal even further appeals court. I'm sorry it's so long, I'm just really upset and lost right now, my family's suffered a lot from this matter and I haven't found a new job yet .

Thank you for your time

Anthony

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Anthony, From what you said it sounds to me like you have a good chance for a reversal of the judge by the Board of Review. However, it's hard to express a firm opinion without hearing the employer's side of the story. I would argue that your error was an isolated, unintentional error that did not amount to misconduct under the unemployment statute. It's likely to be a couple of months before you get a decision from the Board of Review.

I hope you also filed a grievance and take it to arbitration. Sounds to me like you're due reinstatement with back pay. I would be interested in hearing the name of the judge, just out of curiosity. (You can email me through hubpages rather than post his name here.)

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

DianeM, your case may be in a gray area. I'll try to see if I can find a court decision in a similar situation. I think you may be okay, but I'm not sure of the answer off the top of my head.

Here's a link to a case that you may find helpful as a precedent:

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

Macdoctor56 2 years ago

Mr Deeds,

The judge also asked if I have ever been written up or accused of mistreating a customer, he said no. This judge had it out for me, not sure if it was because he was young and so was my boss or what. When I left the room after the hearing, I heard him in the room telling him what he needs to bring with him if he had to appear in front of him again to make his case stronger the next time, I just don't think he liked me, that's the vibe I got. I'll have to find my paperwork to find out the judges name for you.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/us/04talx.html?h

TALX--biggest in the business of fighting unemployment insurance claims.

“Talx often files appeals regardless of merits,” said Jonathan P. Baird, a lawyer at New Hampshire Legal Assistance. “It’s sort of a war of attrition. If you appeal a certain percentage of cases, there are going to be those workers who give up.”

This is consistent with my experience dealing with unbemployment insurance claims in Michigan. Too often, without getting the facts, TALX encourages employers to appeal valid jobles claims. This all too often results in unjustified long delays in payment of benefits only after appeals by employees to get benefits to which they should have been routinely entitled.

Macdoctor56 2 years ago

Mr Deeds

Anthony Soldano again. Is there anyway I can find out what's going on with my case, it's been 4 months now since I filed my appeal and I've had no correspondence from them at all. I feel like I should have at least had some kind of letter letting me know it's under review or something!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

You could go to one of the UIA's Problem Resolution Offices. Here's a link. I've heard that the folks at the Pontiac office are quite helpful.

http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--78925--,

If that doesn't produce results you could ask your Michigan representative or senator in Lansing to contact the agency about your case.

aessedae 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds, I live in Michigan, yesterday I got a letter stating that I may have intentionally misled the unemployment insurance agency and may have to pay back my unemployment for the last 8 months, not including the overpayment fines. The reason being for this is that a temp agency, states I refused work in August because I was out of town. They are requiring me to answer the 9 questions that I would assume that is on every form for intentionally misleading the UIA.

Here is the situation though, I got laid off from a company and am eligible for unemployment compensation. The company that laid me off called the temp agency to have me come in and work for them. At that time I didn’t really want to because they were paying me less money and no benefits, which I had when I was hired into that company. However, I did go work for them a couple of times, 3-4 days a piece, but I heard that I didn’t have to work for them if they didn’t offer me what I was making before. So the third time I decided to tell them that I was out of town, which I was, and that if they couldn’t find anyone to call me. When they called back I didn’t answer the phone. The jobs that they offer are only 3-5 day jobs, the one that they offered me that I turned down was only for a week, and then there was no more work. At least that is what my former employer said.

About a week ago I got a letter in the mail saying that I was overpaid benefits, so I wrote a letter in protest of the restitution (my first appeal) because a lady from UIA said to because it was not my fault and that it was a mistake on their behalf. So I wrote the letter and sent it in, and now they wrote me a letter saying that they are now going to inquirer if I intentionally misled them with refusing work, which is a different situation all together. When I called Marvin I didn’t report refusing the job either, which is what I am most worried about because this may constitute intentional misleading. I just wanted you to know the background of what is going on before I ask my questions.

So regarding to the intentional misleading, do I have any defense against this because a temp agency is trying to hire me to work for my former employer that laid me off and give me less wages (it is not 17% though, more like 10%), not offering me my benefits that I had when I worked there, and only offering me jobs that consist of 3-5 days in length once or twice a month. I find this to be an unfair labor practice. Imagine if all employers could lay off their workers and hire them back through a temp agency for less wages, no benefits, less work, and if they don’t accept, they have to pay back the unemployment compensation fees, plus four times that for intentionally misleading.

Can you please tell me where I stand? How can I respond to the questions without incriminating myself any further? Should I get a lawyer? Why are UIA putting the intentionally misleading with the overpayment protest together?

The questions regarding the inquiry are: 1. How were you made aware that an offer of work existed with the employer? Give date. 2. Who offered you work? 3. Give date work was offered. 4. Did you refuse to report for work to this employer? Why? 5. Did you refuse to accept work when offered? Why? 6. Was the offer of work for a specific job? If so give details of job (duties, pay, hours, location, start date, job duration.) 7. Are you able to perform the job offered? If no, explain. 8. Have you performed this type of work in the past? 9. What was your previous pay rate? 10. Did you notify MARVIN that you had refused a job when it occurred? If not, why?

I really need your help, I don’t know what to say or do. I am about to get married in June and I can’t afford to pay $30,000 in restitution. Thanks in advance!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

1. Answer the questions honestly.

2. Depending on how much lower the pay and benfits were for the job you were offered you may have a good argument that the job offered to you was not suitable. There is a Michigan court decision which says that a job that pays 17% less is not suitable.

3. If no one from the temp agency reached you by phone you may be able to argue that you didn't actually receive and turn down an offer.

4. I don't know what you've already told the agency, but it doesn't help your case if your answers on the questionnaire are different from what you've told them previously.

5. Keep calling Marvin in accordance with the Unemployment Insurance Agency procedures until your case is finally resolved.

6. If you receive an unfavorable redetermination appeal it and request a hearing before an administrative law judge and avail yourself of the the Agency's Advocacy program to get a representative to assist you at the hearing before the judge. Your advocate will sign on to your case and obtain a copy of the case file which will enable him or her to advise you. It's hard for me to offer an opinion on your case without seeing the file. Good luck. If you wish to communicate with me further I suggest you email me through Hubpages rather than in this comment section of the site.

Ed 2 years ago

Hello Ralph,

I have recently recieved a letter stating the following "The Michigan Employment Security Board of Review advised the State Office of Administrative Hearings and Rules that pursuant to Rule 421.1309, Rule 309, it had stayed this matter pending before the Administrative Law Judge and that further proceedings are suspended until further notice. Accordingly, the Administrative Law Judge lacks the authority at this time to hear and decide this appeal."

This was an appeal by an old employer. I have searched th internet for the last couple hours trying to find out what Rule 421.1309, Rule 309 is? Can you please tell me?

Thanks,

Ed

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

It appears to me that your former employer requested a stay of your case's scheduled referee hearing. I wasn't able to find it on the Internet either. Here it is.

Rule 421.1309, Rule 309

Removal or transfer of proceedings pending before referee.

Rule 309. (1)A party to a proceeding pending before a referee may apply to the board of review for wither of the following:

(a) Removal to the board of review of the proceeding.

(b) The transfer of the proceeding to another referee.

(2)The board of review shall notify the referee, in writing, that such application is pending not later than the next business day after receipt of the application. The notice shall order a stay in all proceedings covered by teh application pending the board's decision on the application. Copies of this notice shall be served on all interested parties. If written notice of the stay order cannot be delivered to the referee and interested parties before the scheduled referee hearing date, the board of review shall apprise the referee and interested parties of the stay by telephone or by any other means that gives actual notice.

(3) Upon notification, the referee shall at once suspend any further proceedings before him or her with respect to the application.

(4) The board of review, upon receiving the application specified is subrule (1) of this rule or on its own motion, may remove the proceeding to itself or transfer it to another referee.

Trina 2 years ago

I am going through a separation with my husband who will not be able to help care for my kids in the day time. I have 4 children who are all home-schooled and he was their primary teacher. I work full time as a manager of a billing dept. I am going to have trouble finding care for them in the day time and will probably be fired for my attendance. If this happens, will I be able to get unemployment? I have been with the company for 5 years.Another thing that worries me is that I have had a few businesses in the past that produced no income at all. Will the state deny me for having those businesses?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

1. I don't see why your "businesses in the past that produced no income" would affect your eligibility for unemployment compensation.

2. The issue of absences is a bit of a gray area. Excessive absence without reasonable cause is considered misconduct which is disqualifying for benefits. However, absences resulting for the need to care for children should not be considered "without reasonable cause." If you are dismissed for absences related to child care you could argue that you should be eligible for benefits because absences for child care should not be considered misconduct as would be the case of your own illness which caused you to be absent. However, the agency and judges probably would inquire whether you made a reasonable effort to find someone to care for your children while you were at work. An occasional absence resulting from a child care worker not showing up to care for your children should not amount to disqualifying misconduct.

You might do a bit of research on the misconduct cases involving attendance which can be found on this link. http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

Ed 2 years ago

Hey Ralph,

Thanks for the information, however, it was my understanding that the Review Board came after the UA Administrative Judge had already heard or looked at the case. Other than the appellant asking for a stay, why would the Review Board see the case before the administrative Law Judge?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

ED, Correct--the board of review decides appeals of ALJ decisions. The board also issues stays of hearings requested by claimants or employers without even seeing the case files. The stays are automatic and imply no opinion on the case one way or the other. Your former employer must have requested that the scheduled hearing be stayed by the board of review.

Ed 2 years ago

Will I recieve a case closed notification or will it just sit how it is? How long do they have to issue a new hearing before this is resolved?

Thanks!

Ed

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Without reading the case file it's impossible for me to give definite answers. My guess is that you will receive a notice of hearing for the case that was stayed. Depending on the judge's case docket it may be rescheduled in 2-4 weeks. At least that's been my experience.

aessedae 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds,

I went to my lawyer to have him check things over. He said that there was nothing he could do to help me out because all the suggestions that you gave me were correct. He even refused to take any money for the consultation. I just wanted to say thanks for helping me and everyone else out. Without your help I would have been truly lost, and I really appreciate everything that you have done for me!

God Bless

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Learning to Fight the Bill Collector NY Times 4-24-10

Call this movement revenge of the (alleged) deadbeats. Even as collectors try to recoup debts from millions of Americans struggling to pay their bills, a small but growing number of lawyers and consumers are fighting back against what they describe as harassment, unscrupulous practices — and, most important to their litigiousness, violations of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

In fact, 8,287 federal lawsuits were filed citing violations of the act in 2009, a 60 percent rise over the previous year, according to WebRecon, a site that tracks collection-related litigation and the most litigious consumers and lawyers on behalf of debt collectors.

On Wednesday, the Supreme Court made it even easier for consumers to use the courts to fight debt collectors, ruling that collectors cannot be shielded from suits by claiming they made a mistake in interpreting the law.

When a consumer stops paying a bill, creditors often try to collect on their own for a few months. In many instances, the creditor hires another company to collect the debt. In other cases, they may dispose of the debt by selling it to a debt buyer for a steep discount.

Debt collectors and debt buyers are the targets of litigious consumers, since the debt collection law primarily applies to third-party collectors.

Access the full article here--

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/24/business/24colle

Frustrated 2 years ago

Mr. Deeds

About a year ago I was layed off from work. A couple months later I found another job that required me to move to the other side of the state. This required my wife to quit her job. Before quitting her employer was laying people off due to budget cuts but refused to lay her off because they new she would be quitting. Anyways, I heard later on a radio interview with a Michigan Lawyer that after 6 months everyone is eligible for unemplyment. My wife waited 7 or 8 months, applied by phone with the same story as stated above and was granted unemployment and recieved one check and a letter asking more questions. She filled it out, sent it in and we recieved a letter denying the benefits. We have appealed the decision and just recieved a letter stating that we are still uneligible. So I called the lawyer that I heard on the radio and he said that after 6 months of being unemplyed if you apply and are denied to just reapply and you will recieve benefits.

So;

1. do you think our story would make us eligible for benefits?

2. Is the lawyer correct about reapplying to recieve benefits.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

1. I'm not positive of the answer to this one off the top of my head, and I'm getting ready to catch a plane tomorrow early. My impression is that your wife was properly denied for voluntary leaving not attributable to her employer. There are exceptions to this rule but I'm not aware of any that cover your wife's circumstance.

2. I'm not aware of any provision in Michigan law that grants eligibility for unemployment compensation after 6 months regardless of the reason for termination.

theAlchemist2001 2 years ago

Hi Ralph,

Great advice here, by the way. I'm hoping you can help me determine what my chances are in my redetermination as to why I was denied benefits under Sec 29(I)(A).

Here is my story:

When I went to work for a temp agency at this one famous large west Michigan company, I was told at the interview that my employment at this company would be only for 1.5 years with no chance of hire or contract extension. Towards the end of that time, my supervisor told me that my last day would be November 1, 2009. This was about 1.5 years after I began work there.

My wife got a new job in another state, so with less than 1 month to go till the end of my contract, I voluntarily quit to join her. The Michigan UIA determined that since I voluntarily quit, I'm ineligible for benefits.

My point is that since I would be unemployed in less than one month with no hope of direct hire or an extension to my contract (this was communicated to be my supervisor), I should be eligible for unemployment benefits.

What do you think?

I think I should have stayed until my contract was up but my family says that the temp agency may have just tried to place me in another job so they wouldn't have to pay unemployment (if there were such a job, this was during the Great Recession)

Thank you for your response.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

I can't provide a certain answer for your case. As you know the law says that an employee who voluntarily resigns without good cause attributable to his employer is ineligible for benefits. I suppose you could argue that being given a date certain when you were going to be terminated/laid off might be considered good cause and that you should be eligible for benefits from that date forward. Temp agencies don't like to have unemployment benefits charged against their accounts so your agency may well have offered you a job once your assignment came to an end. Your odds are less than 50-50 would be my best guess.

Scott 2 years ago

I was fired on Friday of last week due to 'attendance issues'.

Yes, I admit to this past week being a bad week; I missed part of Monday but made up most of the time (Apparently they require you to make up time at this job, and not doing so is punishable. I was not aware of this, as previous jobs, you were given the option to make up time at your discretion.) And I was late twice due to dealing with a very important pet dying (I have documentation of this, as well).

However, their issue is that I was absent too much in the past -- I did have several, but I was never absent without a doctor's excuse, and nowhere in their employee handbook is there a clause about excused absences. I had major intestinal surgery a few months ago and the healing process hasn't been going well until recently, but I made sure to bring a note any time I missed, since I was always at a doctor.

I have a feeling they're going to immediately deny me, of course. Is this something I have a chance of winning if I fight? Looking at the situation behind this, it seems bleak.

Scott 2 years ago

Amendment:

Just to make things a little clearer, I think I did have two (possibly three) unexcused absences -- Due to being in too much pain to attend work -- in my entire time working there. The others were definitely excused, however.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 years ago

Only absences without being excused or without reasonable cause count toward misconduct. Two or three unexcused absences don't amount to misconduct. If your unemployment compensation is denied you should request a redetermination and, if necessary, a hearing before an administrative law judge. And in the meantime until your case is resolved one way or the other make sure you keep calling MARVIN or otherwise reporting every other week in accordance with UIA procedures explained in the "green book." Without reviewing your case file and reading what your employer is telling the agency and hearing your side of the case in detail I can't predict whether or not you will be eligible for benefits. Your eligibility will depend on how many times you were late or absent and the reasons for them. How many times you were warned, written up or otherwise disciplined by your employer will be important also.

mich teacher 24 months ago

Thanks for the guidance and information you have provided though this site. Please take a moment to look over the details of my case. I have received UIA benefits for the last year and a half. I am a certified teacher but not currently in a full-time position. I am taking sub jobs though a COMPANY that outsources for school districts. The COMPANY that issues my checks has an automated system that shows jobs online and calls for available jobs.

I received a notification of possible overpayments of benefits from approximately October-May. During this time I had shut the phone system off and not logged into jobs frequently. This is what the inquiry stated and requested clarification about. I clarified that I have been vigilantly pursuing jobs on my own. That I have been working VERY consistently this school year. I further clarified the reason I turned off the phone system and did not log on regularly was because I was subbing regularly and that the system was flawed in that it would call me on days that I already had booked and allowed jobs to be booked by one teacher when I was already committed to another teacher for that day.

Here are the questions I was sent in the inquiry and my letter of response. Please tell me if you think this explanation is sufficient for the inquiry. Thank you for your time!

1. Did you trun of the phone system? If yes, why?

2. Have you only logged onto the system 10 times since 3/5/10? If yes, please explain why you wre not veiwing available work.

3.Are you available to work on all shifts?

4. Are you available on all days?

5. Please explain why your are limiting your availability.

5-30-2010

To Whom it may concern,

This is the response to the inquiry I received on 5-28-2010. THE COMPANY has said that I may have limited my availability to work by turning off their phone notification system. This in fact is very much not the case. I have worked for THE COMPANY consistently as a substitute teacher throughout the 2009-2010 school year. I have secured work since the first day of school, lined up jobs throughout the year, and have jobs booked daily right through the last day of school. All of these were done without their phone notification system. As I have done this daily work, I have called into the MARVIN system and reported all earnings, therefore, all determinations made through the system should be found right and just in the amounts issued. There was no misleading nor intent to mislead the UIA by not using the COMPANY phone system on a daily basis. If there was a known concern, I would have contacted the UIA proactively to discuss. The reason why this information was not reported in more detail was that the MARVIN phone system does not allow for this type of detail to be reported on an individual basis.

Below and attached is an explanation of the five questions/concerns listed on the inquiry that I received.

1. Yes, I turned off the phone system because I had already secured substitute jobs daily on my own. There was obviously no intent to mislead with this action because I had no previous knowledge that this would cause any issues with the UIA. I was trying to prevent double bookings of jobs through THE COMPANY, which is explained in more detail below.

2. I have not logged on to this system frequently either. I had already secured jobs through personal contact with teachers and principals in various school districts. I am working on a daily basis earning monies which I call and report to MARVIN on a bi-weekly basis. A more thorough explanation of this contact and effort is listed below.

3. I am available to work on all shifts.

4. I am available to work on all days.

5. I am not limiting my availability to THE COMPANY. In fact, I have worked throughout the school year, am working now, and still have jobs lined up daily throughout the end of the school year. A detailed explanation of how I have interviewed and earned repeated sub jobs throughout the school year is listed below as well as the reason for turning off their phone notification system.

Before the school year even started I began contacting teachers and principals of the surrounding school districts in which I live. It was due to these efforts that I had lined up no less than 20 substitute teaching jobs before the school year had even begun. Throughout the school year I continued to pursue, follow up, and stay in constant contact with every teacher, principal and teaching opportunity that arose. I secured these jobs not through THE COMPANY phone system, but through my initiatives and perseverance. I made personal phone calls to all teachers I had contact information for, I made personal email contact with other teachers encouraging them to choose me as a substitute, and represented myself as the best person for the job. I also hand delivered resumes to building principals, and handed out business cards to all teachers of all districts with which I am able to substitute. It has been this perseverance that has allowed me to interview for many of these repeating sub opportunities this school year. By doing all of this, I had found that my days were booked with teaching positions and the COMPANY phone system was trying to book me for days that I had already had positions for. Unfortunately, I cannot be in two places at once. I have not limited my availability to work because of this, but I have made my personal connection with these schools, teachers, and districts, which I believe will earn me a full-time permanent position in the upcoming school year. Throughout this past year I have reported my earnings from this work on a bi-weekly basis to MARVIN.

To address the COMPANY system, it has a couple of glitches which is the reason that I had shut it off. THE COMPANY phone notification system calls for me for jobs on days that I already had booked for jobs even though it is not supposed to do this. I sent emails about this concern to them in the past with no resolution. It also allows THE COMPANY to set up jobs without my permission or knowledge, such as days that I already had a job lined up. This has created complications and angered a number of teachers when I had to contact them and tell them that I couldn’t take that job as I was already committed for that date to another job. To prevent this mistake from perpetually occurring, which it was, I turned off the COMPANY phone notification system, not knowing that this would cause any issues with the UIA. I do not believe in any way, that this has limited my availability to work nor was there any intent on my behalf to mislead the UIA . I have not misrepresented any facts or work I have done and have been available and have worked consistently throughout the dates listed on the inquiry.

I have earned each job that I have been given and continue to earn more each day. I am attaching a letter of the resume that I handed out along with my business card, and a letter of recommendation that I have earned this year because of the consistent efforts that I have made to earn more permanent employment so that I will no longer need to depend on the UIA. I have also attached a copy of the jobs that were put into the COMPANY system for my most recent month of work. I do hope that this explanation and response to this inquiry will result in an understanding of the situation with the UIA, and that a determination will be made that no intent to mislead has occurred and that no repayments will be necessary.

Please contact me if you have any other questions and if more information is required. I appreciate your understanding in the clarification to the inquiry that I have answered.

Jim  23 months ago

Thanks for all the advice..

Right now I am in process of writing a letter to appeal the determination and seek a re-determination. I have written a 2 1/2 page letter of my good prior history with the company. All the details leading up to my dismissal. I have heard that nobody is going to want to read that long of a letter. That I should just shorten it up to one page. I feel I am not able to give all the details in just one page.. Do you have any suggestions? Is it better to have a lawyer drawn up paper? I just don't know what to do, as I feel very overwhelmed.. Please help.. Jim

Steve 23 months ago

on feb 12 2010, i was terminater from my job for "misconduct" i was denied benifits. i appealed on may 18th.

I worked for a car shop, and the area manager came to me on 2-12-2010 and stated that i had not followed policy because i didnt put an air filter back into a car. This was the first i heard of this, he asked for my keys and said you are terminated. the area manager does not work at the shop. He said my name was on the receipt and said i was at fault. I had not seen the car and do not remember working on the car. There was no video evidence of me working on the car and no way to prove i worked on the car other than I worked there for 18 months and never had any mistake. also at this shop anybody at anytime as long as a person is punched in can select and name to go on any receipt for that day of business. I believe that i wasn't even there when the car had arrived and my name was selected.

Im appealing again to recieve an ALJ hearing. Do i stand a chance?

Another ?. I am back to work full time. On the paper it states a rework qualification. Does this mean i can get the benefits after making xx $ or does it mean i can file for unemploment again. The rework requirement really has me confused.

Thank you for your time.

Confused Father

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 23 months ago

Yes, I think you have a very good chance of being held eligible for benefits. At the hearing your employer will have the burden of proving 1. That you made a mistake that is serious enough to amount to misconduct. Even if he manages to convince the judge that you did what you were accused of, a single, unrepeated slip-up doesn't amount to misconduct and 2. That you violated a rule of which you had been previously informed.

Pat 23 months ago

I have been denied payment because, "Your weekly benifit rate is reduced by your full weekly retirement benifit under MES Act, Sec.27(F) because you made no contribution to the cost of your retirement benefit."

I am 66 years old, my company retirement plan starts paying at age 65 even though I continued to work. There is no increased payment for waiting to get the retirement money, unlike SS. I was working until recently when they laid me off. This does not seem fair that I am now in the job market, unemployed but because of my company's policy on paying retirement even though you continue to work, I can't get unemployment. Is this correct???

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 23 months ago

Unfortunately, I believe the Agency's ruling is correct. I can see how you feel as if you should be eligible for benefits.

Pat 23 months ago

Bummer. Thanks.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 23 months ago

Policy Responses to Long-term Unemployment

We are in the midst of a jobs crisis, with the unemployment rate stuck around 9.7 percent. The labor market is particularly bleak in terms of duration of unemployment. Half of the unemployed have been out of work for more than six months, nearly five million for more than a year and one million for two. The ranks of the 99ers, who have collected the maximum weeks of state and federal unemployment insurance but remain without jobs, are increasing.

This morning, Berkeley economics professor and blogger Brad DeLong asked, “So what do we know about policies to successfully move the long-term unemployed back to where they ought to be?” Atrios jokingly responded, “We could hire them to dig holes and then fill them up again,” elaborating, “the way to do it is to have the government hire people to do stuff. Inevitably not all of that stuff will be tremendously productive, but plenty of it will be.”

Last week, the House Ways and Means Committee held what I think is the first Hill hearing on long-term unemployment. And a number of policy experts came to explain the gravity of the situation and to propose solutions. Their papers make for good, if depressing, reading: Here they are from Larry Mishel, president of the Economic Policy Institute; Heather Boushey, senior economist at the Center for American Progress; Michael Reich, economics professor at the University of California, Berkeley; Till von Wachter, economics professor at Columbia; and Jason Taylor, economics professor at Central Michigan University.

More here:

http://michiganmessenger.com/38880/policy-response

cmarie 23 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

Back in Novemember I was fired for misconduct from my job. Two weeks ago I had my hearing and I won the case! I was excited to recieve all the back unemployment. When I called the unemolpyment number I was told I need to have another hearing. They said I had quit my job in Feb. 2010 and was only alowed to recieve the monies from Nov-Jan. I had writted a letter stating I would be leaving my current job the first week of Feb 2010. It was written because I was going to transfer to another office. After I was fired I could no longer move to the other office. How can they say I was fired and quit? Can you really be foreced to have two court hearings?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 23 months ago

Yes, you can. Get back in touch with your advocate and make your case at the second hearing.

cmarie 23 months ago

I'm just worried because I'm way past the 30 day marker. I recieved no information about this issues until I called last week. So when I wrote my appeals I did not appeal the voluntary leaving aspect because it wasnt brought to my attention. Am I out of luck? Will they allow me to appeal past the 30 days?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 23 months ago

The rules and judges are pretty strict about enforcing the appeal deadlines. For your appeal to be ruled okay you will have to show good cause for your failure to appeal within 30 days. Showing good cause requires a pretty good reason such as you didn't receive the determination or redetermination in the mail or you were very ill or you had to go out of town on a family emergency or for a funeral.

rico 23 months ago

quick question, i was recently fired last week for work ethic, work performance and said something about a concern about absenties. I feel that i worked the best of my abilty and all of my absenties are excused, medical or sick, death in the family or simply just vacation days. No warnings or write ups. I filed for unemployment and i will be calling marvin. Is there a chance that i will be denied or most likely i will recieve benefits. Afterall the Hr did say i was able to collect and i needed help that to call her in her office. Thanks in advance.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 23 months ago

Your eligibility will depend on whether your action constituted disqualifying misconduct which is defined by the controlling court case as "wanton or willful disregard of your employer's interest." Excused absences don't constitute misconduct. Whether or not "work ethic" or "work performance" would be disqualifying misconduct would depend on the facts/information furnished by your employer to the Unemployment Insurance Agency. You will receive a determination of eligibility or ineligibility from the unemployment agency. If you disagree with it, you have the right to appeal within a strict 30-day deadline. Based on the information you furnish in your appeal the agency will issue a redetermination. You have the right to appeal that to a hearing by an administrative law judge, withing 30 days. In the meantime KEEP CALLING MARVIN until you get a final decision. I can't predict from the information in your question what the ruling by the UIA or a judge will be. Good luck.

rico 23 months ago

Thank you, I do have to call marvin this monday july 5th for the first time, will i receive any payment while waiting for review, or will i have to waite. I probably got a month or so before i loose everything, really worried, allthough i feel that i was terminated without a real solid reason. work performance and hr did mention a concern about absents but it sounded more focused on the work performance, trouble keepin up with assembly, which i felt that i did great. Ive been with this company for 3 years. We were bought by new owners last year. 2 day's before i was terminated, they hired someone. Rumors were that he was really a replacement. Go figured i got terminated 2 day's after. I see that you said excused absents wont be misconduct, what is a misconduct when we say work performance? Thank you so much by the way, I want to uducate myself as there is a lot of unjustice with allot of employer companies, Thank you.

rico 23 months ago

I did some thinking of what you wrote, correct me if im wrong but, work performance misconduct would be, perpousely or not wanting to do the work, neglecting work, and the other work performance is trying the best in my ability but did not meet there standards, I see what your saying far as wanton or willful, now, if i have to apeal, the first one is through mail or phone or its straight to a judge?, Thanks ralph, we need more people like you that help the american people.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 23 months ago

You should get a determination pretty quickly. And a benefit check if you are determined to be eligible. Depending on what your employer tells the agency you may get a redetermination finding you ineligible or eligible.

Inablilty to meet work performance standards is not misconduct. Goofing off, taking too many breaks, too long for lunch and repeated careless work are misconduct.

rico 23 months ago

I see, If I have to fight for my benefits by any reason, In your opinion, will I have a chance since I never got any warnings or write ups? I understand if it was something violent or drunk or things that are to the extreme, but thats not my case. Thank you again for your opinion advices.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 23 months ago

"Punishing the Jobless" by Paul Krugman in the NY Times 7-5-10

There was a time when everyone took it for granted that unemployment insurance, which normally terminates after 26 weeks, would be extended in times of persistent joblessness. It was, most people agreed, the decent thing to do.

But that was then. Today, American workers face the worst job market since the Great Depression, with five job seekers for every job opening, with the average spell of unemployment now at 35 weeks. Yet the Senate went home for the holiday weekend without extending benefits. How was that possible?

The answer is that we’re facing a coalition of the heartless, the clueless and the confused. Nothing can be done about the first group, and probably not much about the second. But maybe it’s possible to clear up some of the confusion.

Read the rest of Krugman's op-ed here--

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/05/opinion/05krugma

rico 23 months ago

I can't believe it, I don't understand how he can go home and sleep like a baby when there is hundreds of thousands of american people without jobs. Im a victim of the job less and worse fire for no reason. By the way Mr. Deeds, I called Marvin today and he did not give me a check amount. Im guessing its due to decision not reached yet. I have not receive any letter. Only letter I received was how many weeks and pay amount. Thank you for being on our side and god bless you and everyone in time of troubles.

mellemel 22 months ago

Hello, In Dec 09 I quit my job after 7 years due to anxiety and stress due to the job. I have paperwork from my physician. After being denied twice a telephone hearing was set for May 26, 2010. I received a phone call 2 hrs prior that it was being canceled because my employer or the rep for the employer was unable to make it. I received a letter from the board of review stating my case was on a "stay' until further notice. On July 1st I received another letter from the BOR and it was an order denying removal and returning the matter to the office of Administration Hearings for further proceedings. I'm confused.......Here is just part of the letter. Having considered the employer's petition, we are of the opinion the request for removal should be denied. The employer, by means of the petition and stay order, has achieved the relief it originally sought-an adjournment of the ALJ hearing. Nothing more would be accomplished by granting further relief. what is next? Should I contact a lawyer? Thank you for your time.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 22 months ago

If you wish to contact a lawyer, do so through the Unemployment Agency's Advocacy program which provides free legal advice and representation at Administrative Law Judge hearings. The notice from the BOR simply means that it granted the employer's request that the hearing be "stayed" or postponed to be rescheduled at a later date. You will receive a notice of another hearing before long. And it will be to your advantage to get a representative from the list of lawyers and advocates sent you by the UIA.

mellemel 22 months ago

Thank you and I will keep you posted.

Jennifer 22 months ago

Can you tell me what happens if your employer contests unemployment benefits? My husband was fired after 12 years and his company routinely contests unemployment for everyone. They have even been known to repeatedly postpone unemployment hearings. They have tried to show that the firing was for cause although we are pretty sure a ruling would be in his favor. Will he receive benefits before a decision is made or will we have to wait to begin getting payments?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 22 months ago

I can't predict whether your husband will get benefits. That depends on what information he furnishes about his termination to the Unemployment Agency and what the employer tells the Unemployment Agency. They may rule in favor of your husband or in favor of his former employer. If the ruling is in favor of the employer your husband should appeal within 30 days (they are very strict on the deadlines), and continue to call MARVIN to certify in accordance with the procedures in the "green book." The unemployment agency makes quite a few mistakes which are corrected by the administrative law judges and the Board of Review.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 22 months ago

Senate Clears Way For Extension Of Jobless Benefits

by NPR Staff and Wires

July 20, 2010

A bill to restore unemployment benefits to millions who have been out of work for more than six months has cleared a Senate hurdle.

The 60-40 vote came moments after Carte Goodwin, a successor to West Virginia Democrat Robert Byrd, was sworn in. Goodwin was the crucial 60th senator to defeat a Republican filibuster that has led to a lapse in benefits for 2.5 million people.

A battle has raged for months over whether jobless benefits should be financed with additional federal debt as Democrats want or through cuts to other government programs as most Republicans insist.

After a final Senate vote, the House will take up the bill Wednesday. President Barack Obama is likely to sign it into law by week's end.

Jobless Benefits End, Senate Exits, History Repeats

Democrats stripped the unemployment insurance measure down to the bare essentials for the vote, which is a do-over of a tally taken late last month.

The vote will allow about 2.5 million people to receive jobless benefits retroactively, injecting almost $3 billion into the economy once they're paid out. Instead of being dropped from a federal program that extends benefits for those whose six months of state-paid benefits have run out, millions of others will continue to receive payments that would help prop up consumer demand to the tune of about $30 billion more over the coming year.

Obama and his Democratic allies blamed Republicans for the impasse that halted unemployment checks for people unable to find work as the jobless rate remains close to 10 percent.

Obama launched a fresh salvo Monday, blasting Republicans for the holdup.

"The same people who didn't have any problem spending hundreds of billions of dollars on tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans are now saying we shouldn't offer relief to middle-class Americans," Obama said.

Republicans said they do favor the benefits but had insisted they be paid for with spending cuts elsewhere in the government's $3.7 trillion budget. After initially feeling heat this winter when a lone GOP senator, Jim Bunning of Kentucky, briefly blocked a benefits extension in February, the GOP has grown increasingly comfortable opposing the legislation.

The providing of additional weeks of jobless benefits in the midst of bad times has been regarded as routine, and the latest cycle of additional benefits began in 2008, the last year of George W. Bush's administration.

"For a long time, there has been a tradition under both Democratic and Republican presidents to offer relief to the unemployed," Obama said. "That was certainly the case under my predecessor, when Republicans several times voted to extend emergency unemployment benefits."

But with conservative voters and Tea Party activists up in arms about the deficit, conservative Republicans have adopted a harder line that has caused three interruptions of jobless benefits.

"What the president isn't telling the American people is that many of us in the Senate are fighting to make sure our children and grandchildren aren't buried under a mountain of debt," said Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT). "If we are going to extend unemployment benefits, then let's do it without adding to our record debt."

Ken 22 months ago

I have been told by my supervisor that I either have to take a demotion or quit. The demotion involves a 26.69% pay decrease (I am able to recieve 40 hours) plus making me ineligible for the medical, dental, and life insurance plans. Are these suitable grounds for quitting my job and still being eligible to recieve unemployment benefits. I drive from Jackson to Ann Arbor every day for work (48 miles one-way) and taking this paycut will cause me to go further into debt if I have to work.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 22 months ago

Yes, the demotion and pay decrease and ineligibility for benefits would be grounds for voluntary leaving attributable to the employer and should not prevent you from being eligible for unemployment benefits. However, the unemployment benefits for which you may be eligible would also be less than your earnings from your employer, and their duration is limited. They are designed to provide you with income while you are looking for another job.

toni 21 months ago

Hello ralph, Im currently unemployed and seeking work monday through friday. I havent had much luck, That been said, I been spreading my wings a little more to find work that i never done before since the job front is hard right now. I applied for a job and had a same day interview. Everything was going great until he told me the pay rate and where the job is located which was in a really high crime bad neighborhood, NO BENEFITS, no experience at all for this job. He told me that if i was not confident about it that he will find someone else no problem. I told him, honestly im scared to work there, not confident at all. So he agreed although he still wanted me to work there. I told him that if he had something more confotable to call me, eventhough the pay is 20-25% less then my last job, I probably would taken it if it was not in a high crime location with no experience, do i need to let the agency know, or because it was unsuitable and he agreed that if i was not confident that im not obligated to take it, i could just continue to seek suitable work and get on with my job search. Thanks in advance.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 21 months ago

No, you aren't obligated to inform the unemployment agency about the job offer. The fact that you turned down a job offer could be an issue over the job's suitability if your previous employer found out it and raised an issue about your eligibility for benefits.

wes 21 months ago

im in a pickle. i was called into a meeting with my hr manager and was told it was because i didnt make a presale and appointment goal twice for 2 seperate events. i was already written up once for the first event. i was told i was going to be terminated in 30 days or i could take a mutual agreement with in lieu of notice pay for two weeks. i was told to make a decision right away, yet the company said it suggests i take the agreement. i chose to stay, and was then told to take a day to think about my decision. i came back after a day, in which i was scheduled to work, but had a meeting right before my opening shift to discuss what i chose. not only did i show up in my uniform to work, but i chose to stay for 30 days once more. i was then told again how the company felt i should take the mutual agreement and what not. i felt forced into taking the mutual agreement and felt my first choice to stay had been manipulated.

i explained everything to EDD and i was granted benefits. about a month and a half goes by and i got a notice of hearing because my company wanted to appeal, saying i just up and quit with no record of in lieu of notice given. i have signed documentation stating it was a mutual agreement with in lieu of notice pay. nowhere does it state i quit, or anything of the sort.

at the hearing before the judge, the HR manager even said that i chose the option to stay for 30 days and that i also showed up in my uniform. both of those facts were proven also by my witness who was a coworker. the HR manager tried to say how the company has procedures, yet couldnt support them when asked to provide documentation. my witness gave testimony and gave a hypothetical situation as to, why would someone (myself) stay at a job and work in an environment thinking about how theyre going to get fired in 25, 24, 23 days? after, i asked 3 questions being if i showed up in uniform, had no intent to quit, and if they were going to terminate me in 30 days. all 3, responses were answered with yes.

i just got the decision last week and the judge overturned my benefits, stating my witness sided with the employer in which they were only going to scrutinize my work for 30 days and suspend me if requirements werent met.

nowhere during the case, did anyone say i would get suspended if requirements/goals werent met. the company and i were at dispute over being scrutinized for 30 days or being termed in 30 days. the judge took my witness' testimony and it supports the employer. the judge also said i wasnt desirous to work.

yet nowhere in his decision does it state how it was proven i was in uniform and proven that i chose to stay. how could the judge have taken my witness' testimony as siding with the employer, when i gave questions to if they were going to term me she answered yes?

i sent in my form to the board of appeals to appeal the law judges decision. i feel im getting royally screwed in this matter.

also, even though the judge overturned my benefits, will i still receive benefits while im sending an appeal to the board?

wes 21 months ago

also, it is stated that they first called it a leave in lieu of discharge, the judge states that it was a leave in anticipation of discharge and i had no good cause.

antoni 21 months ago

I'll continue with my job search, thank you for the info.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 21 months ago

Wes, It's hard to comment on your case without reading the case file and hearing the testimony. Some employers who are reducing their workforce trump up minor misconduct charges instead of laying an employee off and then try to talk the employee into resigning instead of having a discharge on their record. This is a dirty trick used by unscrupulous employers in an effort to disqualify the employee from unemployment benefits. Sounds to me like this may be what happened to you. Usually the judges don't fall for this approach. Good luck with your appeal!

wes 21 months ago

well, i read in previous posts from you, stating the office of appeals rarely overturns the ALJ's decision.

even though he overturned benefits, will i receive them still while im appealing to the office of appeals?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 21 months ago

I'm not positive, but I think your benefits will continue until the Board rules on your appeal. If you lose the Agency will ask you to repay the benefits you have received. If you don't have the money to repay them they will withhold a portion of any future benefits to which you may be entitled, and they will take any future state income tax refunds to which you may be entitled.

It's true that the Board affirms more ALJ decisions than it reverses, but it does reverse a significant number of decisions. The judges are far from perfect, and quite a few cases fall in a gray area.

antoni 21 months ago

ralph, question on what you said, what do you mean far as the fact turning down a job offer could be an issue over the jobs suitability if previous employer raised an issue. Do you mean that if they raise an issue I could argue that the job I apply for was unsuitable for me. thanks

toni 21 months ago

Just to clear it up a bit, it was not really an job offer, he just stated what he had on the table and if im capable of doing it, that's when i stated my opinion i wrote above. He told me he will call if he got anything thats better for me. I still would like to know about the question I just wrote above for future reference. Thank you so much.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 21 months ago

Antoni--The law requires that you be involuntarily unemployed, available and seeking "suitable" employment. If an employer becomes aware that you turned down an offer and protests your benefits on that basis, the issue is (1) whether an offer was actually made and (2) whether the job offered was suitable. There is no clear definition of suitability. The factors include how the pay compares with the job from which you were laid off, whether it is a job you have previously held, whether it is consistent with your education and training and so forth. Suitability is a somewhat gray area. The judges will take a commonsense approach--a greeter job at WalMart would not be deemed suitable for an unemployed brain surgeon or corporate lawyer. The longer you are unemployed the larger the difference in pay must be to make a job unsuitable.

You are free to argue that you didn't actually receive an offer and/or that the any job mentioned to you, in any event was unsuitable because the pay was too low or that you were not able by training or experience to do the job. Whether you win the argument will depend on the facts and the commonsense opinion of the judge.

Jim 21 months ago

Hello Mr Deeds,

I could use a bit of advice and help if possible. I taught at an awful school that had fights, outdoor gun shots, in school invasions by angry parents and young thugs, students threatened me, one threw glue on me. I could go on and on, it was a nightmare. The administrators were no help.It was an institution where teachers were bullied by the staff. I complained about a few things, but I was afraid to say much else and teachers were warned not to go to human resources or the superintendent or school board to complain. After 2 years I could physically and mentally take no more so I quit.

I suffer from high blood pressure and since working in that environment I have suffered bouts of anxiety and even depression. I am a private person and have dealt with these issues mostly on my on without a doctor. I can't even afford a doctor currently. However I did speak to my doctor often when I was employed about my blood pressure and I talked briefly about anxiety issues which I thought at the time were a side effect of my meds.

To make a long story short I have been denied unemployment for a year. Initially I could not afford a lawyer, so when I had a hearing with a referee he denied me cause my employer said I could have complained to someone over my supervisor which was a lie. I was in fear for my job daily and so were most of the teachers. The school was a revolving door and still is.

I tried to submit a doctors letter that had been written after I resigned but the judge refused it as testimony even though he had read it I assume. he dismissed the letter cause it wasn't written at the time of my resignation. Anyway I was able to hire a lawyer after the denial due to a small tax refund. We appealed to the board, but I have been denied again.The board really gave no explaination they just sided with the referee.

I plan to appeal again, but this time i am out of funds and it looks like I will lose my lawyer. I feel my case does have merit . I have never resigned from any job. Its ironic that i was laid off from my job, prior to accepting the last horrendous one and i did not even attempt to collect unemployment. I would really love for the judges and board members to spend a day where I worked and come back and tell me it is suitable work environment.

I just feel like I have been really wronged by the system thus far. The unemployment commission said I can't even have a free advocate cause I no longer live in Michigan. I am wondering how long can I appeal this? If you have any tips or cases I can cite in my appeal I would greatly appreciate it. I am hoping I can eventually appeal and get a rehearing and maybe by then I can afford an attorney or to hire my attorney back.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 21 months ago

I have a busy day and week. Here's a link to a digest of Michigan court decisions on unemployment compensation appeals which you may find helpful--

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

Start with Chapter 10 Voluntary Leaving

Seems to me that the judge may have erred in not considering your doctor's statement. And it seems to me, from what you said, that you had grounds for resigning attributable to your employer. However, it's hard for me to comment on you case without reviewing the record and transcript of the ALJ hearing.

Jim 21 months ago

How often do claimants win unemployment cases without an advocate or lawyer? Not that I would recommend defending one's self but in some cases it can't be helped.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 21 months ago

I haven't seen any statistics on that. It might depend on the luck of the draw on the judge. In Michigan the administrative law judges, in cases where the claimant is not represented by a lawyer or advocate, are obligated to act in lieu of the claimant advocate to make sure the claimant gets a fair chance to present his case and to make sure the employer doesn't put hearsay evidence into the record. Some judges take this obligation more seriously than others. And some claimants have better relevant information and are better able to testify convincingly than others. Bottom line, in my opinion, it's a good idea to get an advocate to assist you in presenting your case but not fatal if you don't have one. The biggest determinant of the result is the facts of your case and the law pertaining to the facts. Also, it helps if your testimony at the hearing is consistent with what you previously told the unemployment agency when you filed for benefits and any subsequent information you supplied. It's not helpful if your testimony differs from the information you previously gave to the agency. There can be reasonable explanations for such discrepancies, but they tend to raise doubts in the judge's mind about your credibility.

Jim 21 months ago

I was just denied by the board. I plan to appeal. The deadline is fast approaching and I have been having a few issues with my attorney, though they are more my fault than his. We've been playing phone tag and I've had some financial issues so I think this appeal may be going out later than I would have wanted. I want to make sure the case is appealed. When it comes to close deadlines I get a bit nervous and usually depend on myself as far as getting things done. I was wondering if I should send my own letter of appeal to the board to make sure it arrives on time. However, if my attorney also sends in an appeal will we be canceling each other out? Should I informed the board that they will also may be receiving a more formal appeal from my attorney? Would the board review both letters or only one?

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 21 months ago

My understanding is that the normal course of action in appealing a decision of the Board of Review is to appeal to the circuit court nearest to where you live.

ByFaith 21 months ago

Hi Ralph,

You are doing a good work here with many who are struggling with either their employer, UIA or both. Last October I was fired from my job for not meeting the requirements of the company.

I did not start claiming unemployment unitl February of 2010. When I did, I was determined eligible even though I told the UIA that I was fired. The employer appealed timely twice and then I ended having to go to a hearing before an ALJ.

I hired a lawyer familiar with MI unemployment law and put together my case. The hearing day came and went and I received a week later the re-determination which was reversed by the ALJ. The reason it was reversed was because I did not timely call my employer when I was late a couple of times.

These weren't being absent from work, but being late. I'm not excusing those cases but I worked all those days as per the "at-will" contract.

I did not appeal the re-determination because I don't believe it would have been overturned as I did not have any NEW evidence to bring forth.

Now that this has been reversed, of course, the UIA says that I owe all of the payments (which is over $9,000) back that I was originally qualified for.

I am still out of work, I am losing my house and property, and have very little income to live on. Have you had any experience with writing the UIA a waiver of restitution?

I am not sure if I can do that because on the "Notice of (Re)Determination" it states that "The unemployed worker must repay the above amount to the UIA. Collection of restitution is not waived because the overpayment does not meet the criteria for waiver."

Although, it does say that if my average monthly income for the past six months is below the poverty line, I MAY be eligible for a waiver of repayment due to indigence.

My lawyer told me to write a letter to the UIA in Grand Rapids explaining my situation and asking for a waiver of restitution. What would be the best course of action?

Thank you.

ByFaith

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 21 months ago

By Faith,

It may have been a mistake not to have appealed the judge's decision to the Board of Review. The B.O.R. does reverse a small but significant percentage of administrative law judge decisions.

You have nothing to lose by requesting a waiver of restitution. Here's what the UIA says about restitution:

What the law says: This issue is covered by Section 62(a) of the Michigan Employment Security Act. The law says that if a claimant for unemployment benefits receives a benefit payment to which he or she is not entitled, the claimant must repay to the Unemployment Agency (UA) the improperly paid amount.

The restitution may be paid to the Agency in cash, or it can be deducted from future benefit payments, but not more than 20% of any benefit payment can be used to pay back restitution. ...The restitution can also be collected by intercepting the claimant's state income tax refund.

However, the UA cannot collect restitution more than three years after the improper payment unless fraud was involved....

The law gives the Agency authority to forgive restitution under certain circumstances, where to collect restitution would be contrary to equity and good conscience and the improper payment was die to the Agency's clerical error in calculating the benefit payment; or when the error occurred because the employer failed to provide the Agency with requested information or provided incorrect information; OR WHEN THE CLAIMANT HAS A LOW HOUSEHOLD INCOME AND REPAYING THE AMOUNT WOULD CAUSE THE CLAIMANT EXTREME FINANCIAL HARDSHIP.

[My understanding is that the Unemployment Agency doesn't turn claimants over to bill collectors or take extreme measures to compel reimbursement.]

Good luck!

ByFaith 21 months ago

Ralph,

Thank you for your reply. Would it be best just to write them at the P.O. Box in Grand Rapids or call the number that was given on the re-determination to ask for an affidavit to qualify for the waiver?

ByFaith

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 21 months ago

I'm not sure. Why not try calling first?

Jim 21 months ago

Well, I guess my lawyer wanted to try to get the board to reconsider before moving to the next court , because their explanation was somewhat vague. They pretty much just sided with the decision of the ALJ without much insight into their own reasoning.

festersporling1 profile image

festersporling1 20 months ago

If anyone coming off unemployment wants to help me, http://hubpages.com/hub/Fellow-Hubbers-Will-pay-fo Particularly interested in hubpagers cuz I know they can write.

Daniel

ReuVera profile image

ReuVera Level 3 Commenter 20 months ago

Ralph, when my friend asked me a question that I didn't have knowledge to answer, I knew immediately to whom I can re-address it. Will you be so kind to consult me, so I can give some info to my friend?

She in on emergency extension (last two tiers, I suppose) and this program is available for her till December. Now she was offered a temporary job for 12 weeks, just to substitute somebody. The position is temporary. Will this cancel her remaining benefits, or is there a hope that she can go back on the extension when the temporary job ends?

Thank you.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 20 months ago

I've never encountered that exact question, and I'm not sure of the answer. However, if she turns down the temporary job, assuming it's "suitable," her benefits could be jeopardized if the Unemployment Agency finds out. I'm pretty sure she could take the temporary job and then re-apply and become eligible for benefits once the temp job ends. She could inquire about this at one of the agency Problem Resolution Offices if she's in Michigan. (My experience is solely in Michigan, and there are differences in the rules from state to state.)

When I have a bit more time I'll try to find a more definitive answer.

ReuVera profile image

ReuVera Level 3 Commenter 20 months ago

Thank you, Ralph. I presume that my friend will grab the opportunity and take a job if she is selected (as I found out, she didn't get an offer yet, just an opportunity to be selected), but since it is a temporary job, she is apprehensive that she might be left without any support, even from emergency extension when the job is over.

She lives in WI, but if you can get more information, we'll appreciate it. Thanks.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 20 months ago

Here's a link to the Wisconsin Unemployment Insurance Agency's website and one on the extended benefits which may be helpful although I didn't see an answer to the exact situation of your friend.

http://www.dwd.state.wi.us/default.htm

http://www.dwd.state.wi.us/uiben/extended_benefits

ReuVera profile image

ReuVera Level 3 Commenter 20 months ago

Thank you, Ralph.

Lori 19 months ago

Mr. Deeds, I was recently fired for sleeping on the job. I worked for this company for five years and had no previous problems and had perfect attendance (hadn't called in or was tardy in almost 2 years) I didn't take the warning or write up as seriously as I should have (assumed it was because the area I was working in was very warm...write up was the week before vacation so assumed I was burned out. After getting fired I went to my family doctor who did numerous tests and could find no physical problem. He then referred me to a sleep specialist and it was determined I have sleep apnea where I stop breathing constantly during the night which is causing my sleepiness and exhaustion. My former employer is claiming I was fired for a deliberate disregard of my employers interest which makes it sound like I was bringing a pillow to work and sleeping whenever I felt like it. I sat at a desk all day and some days I literally poked myself with a sharp object to stay awake. Is there any hope for my redetermination?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 19 months ago

It seems to me that your case is in a gray area amd the Administrative Law Judge could go either way. The fact that the incident was the first time is in your favor. Be sure and take evidence of the doctor's diagnosis to the hearing. And keep calling MARVIN to certify until your appeals are resolved. Get an advocate to assist you at the hearing.

Down and out of Michigan 19 months ago

Dear Mr. Deeds

I began the process of appealing my unemployment decision many months ago. I resigned due to personal health concerns. I asked a lawyer to represent me prior to my first hearing. I did not hear from the lawyer until weeks after I lost my hearing.

I cant help but shake the fact that if the lawyer had responded immediately then I might have won my case out the gate. I was green so I lost and I have been paying for it since. The lawyer apologized that they did not respond sooner and they seemed compassionate and seemed to believe in my case so I hired them with what little money I had. Since then the lawyer has represented my case and I have been met with 3 more denials in the past few months. The last one I had to pay a fee to the lawyer again and I was denied with in a couple of weeks.

I have run out of money and I am thinking of going it alone to the next round which is civil court. I have told my lawyer I have no money and my lawyer seems to take time getting back to me or request that I make the attorney services a high priority. I do appreciate what my lawyer has done and I have learned a lot , but it’s kind of hard to pay for a lawyer when I am unemployed and have very little family support.

My lawyer says that they believe in my case but at the same time not enough to do it for just the settlement it seems. I guess that is to much to ask of anyone. My lawyer said if they dont hear from me by the appeal date that they will close my case.

I am thinking I must appeal alone this time so I wonder what are my chances for a civil court victory? What should I submit to the court? Are there any civil court fees I must pay as a former employee? Will the retrieve all my past documents when they consider my appeal? Will I need a lawyer or can I have a civil court hearing by phone? What are my options if I am denied again? How long can I keep appealing my case?

Tim 19 months ago

I was wondering is there any service in Michigan I could contact that will represent me now that I am out of state? I contacted unemployment and they told me I no longer qualify for a free advocate because I have relocated. Seems unfair since my case is in Michigan and I am still unemployed.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 19 months ago

Tim, the Michigan Unemployment Agency pays for representation by approved advocates for representation in Michigan administrative law judge hearings involving claims for unemployment compensation under the Michigan statute.

Sorry for the delay in this reply. I was out of town for a long weekend for a wedding and didn't have time or easy access to the Internet.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 19 months ago

Down and out. You aren't required to have a lawyer for unemployment compensation appeals. However, the state unemployment agency provides lawyers/advocates to assist claimants in hearings before administrative law judges with no cost to the claimant. It would be to your advantage to take advantage of this free service. It's hard to advise you without knowing more about your case. It would appear to be important for you to bring any medical evidence about your health to the hearing.

Sorry for the delay in this reply. I've been out of town for four days to attend a wedding in Maine.

Down and out of Michigan 19 months ago

Hi again Mr. Deeds

I am in a bit of a jam. I only have a few days to send in my appeal with the Wayne County Clerk. I know I am attempting to do this at the last minute partially due to my own fault and circumstances beyond my control. I was waiting for my attorney to contact me again and he did not. So I'm kind of left holding the bag. From what the circuit court tells me I need an appeal form and I have no idea where to find one and doubt i can afford one. Do you have some insight? being that I am not in Michigan this makes everything 100 times harder. Should I just sent in my hand written letter asking for an appeal? I'm really just trying to keep my case alive at this point.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 19 months ago

You need to comply with the procedures outlined by the circuit court clerk as best you can. You might try asking the clerk to fax you a copy of the form to the nearest Kinko's. Or try to get a friend in Detroit to pick up the form and mail it to you ASAP. I'm certified to represent claimants in hearings before administrative law judges, but I'm not a lawyer and therefore not qualified to get involved in circuit court proceedings.

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 18 months ago

Democrats in Washington are catching on to the idea that they can’t capitulate to an extension of Bush-era tax rates for the rich without at least demanding something in return, and an extension of federal unemployment benefits, set to expire at the end of the month, is increasingly looking like it will be a part of the bargain. While Democratic leadership is still opposed, in theory, to any extension of tax cuts for the top two percent of American income earners, politicians on both sides of the aisle have begun floating a possible deal that would link an extension of the tax cuts to an extension of unemployment benefits:

Representative Pete Sessions, a Republican in leadership, said he could back extending jobless benefits, favored by Democrats like House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, in exchange for an extension of all Bush-era tax cuts, including for the wealthiest groups.

“What we’re going to do is sit down and talk with Mrs. Pelosi,” Sessions told Reuters as he left a meeting of House Republicans. “I see nothing wrong with her winning as long as the American people do.” [...]

“It really strikes me as hard to explain why we would give charity to the richest people in America with additional tax cuts of $100,000 a year and deny the basic necessities of life to people who are out of work through no fault of their own,” said Richard Durbin, the No. 2 Democrat in the Senate.

http://michiganmessenger.com/43943/unemployment-ex

cpgoody 18 months ago

Hello Ralph,

I will try and make this as short as possible. I have been waiting 11 weeks for a determination, i finally received it in the mail, but i haven't a clue as to what it means. This is it:

I quit one job on 5/7/10 to accept work with a temp agency beginning 5/10/10. This work has not been determined to be of permanent duration. Therefore good cause attributable to employer is not extablished and the provisions of the leaving to accept other work do not apply. However, you have satisfied the rework requalification.

It is found that you quit your job without good cause attributable to the employer and you did not meet the "Leaving to Accept" requirements of MES ACT, Sec. 29(5). You are disqualified for benefits under MES ACT, Sec. 29(1)(A). You are disqualified for week ending 5/8/10 until completion of a $2,028.00 earnings rework requirement which has been satisfied.

Thats the letter. I quit the first job because i couldn't get more hours, was only getting 22 to 30 at most a week, part time. So i took the other job which was temp to hire full time. Before they had a chance to hire all the temps they got slow and we were let go. Well to me it sounds like the letter is saying that i have met the rework requirement, am i correct in assuming this? I have been calling Marvin every two weeks on time. So what happens from here. The time i call Marvin will he give me an amount? On the top of the letter it also says, Filed: 9/7/10 BYB: 9/5/10 what is BYB? Hope you can clear this up for me? Thank You

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 18 months ago

The Unemployment Agency makes plenty of mistakes in its determinations and redeterminations. You may want to request a re-determination within the quite strict 30-day period, emphasizing that the job you accepted, although temporary, offered the chance of permanent employment and that you weren't getting enough paid hours at the job you left to live on, i.e., you had good cause attributable to that employer for leaving. If the redetermination goes against you, you can request a hearing before an administrrative law judge. It would help your case if your hours at the first job were reduced to 22-30 hours a week. Good luck.

Candy 18 months ago

FYI...I Won

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 18 months ago

Way to go!

Candy 17 months ago

After a long frustrating, demoralizing, eye opening journey that begun in March 2009 and ended in October 2010; from the redetermination, to the Administrative Hearing Judge, to the Board of Review (twice) and finally after my perseverance and a 15 page brief to the circuit court judge (that I done by myself, because I couldn’t find not one lawyer to help me) justice prevailed at the Circuit Court level…and I won.

At every level of this process the people that work for the unemployed agency and their affiliates did everything in their power to disenfranchise me the unemployed worker instead of helping me, by condoning lies, hinder and prolonged the due process and ignored all the facts as well as the laws that pertained to the facts, this case should have never went this far….the name of the agency should be changed to the; Employer Agency, because that’s who’s best interested they protected, not mine. This whole experience has been a total joke…but thanks to the Circuit Court Judge for seeing pass the lies and the injustice that was done in my case and applying the MCL laws that were put in place to help me….and help me it did…by restoring my faith in the Court’s justice system, not the UIA.

FYI to all, go the distance, because the UIA’s layers of BS in the appeals process, is designed to make the unemployed worker get frustrated from the exhausting appeal process. DO NOT miss the deadlines the deadlines are another form of deception, put in place to make the average unemployed worker fail in the appeal process. Circuit Court is free to the Unemployed worker and you don’t need a lawyer, just some patience…

Scott 17 months ago

Hey Ralph, you gave me some insight on a quit case I had almost a year ago, which, after 7 months waiting for the Board of Review to finally give me answer, resulted in them still siding with the ALJ against me. I have since been employed and just lost my job today under these circumstances:

I was discussing a truck order with another female manager and when she asked why I ordered some extra cases, I pulled a condom out of my pocket and said "the same reason I always carry one of these, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it." No advances on her at all were made and she found it hilarious. My boss found out about it and called me today at home and told me over the phone that he is considering that I resigned. I pleaded and he said that he just couldn't take any chances, he's been burned before. The female in question told me that she also pleaded to him that she thought it was funny and was in no way offended and that I made no advances on her at all. I've never had any other written or verbal warnings of any kind. My guess is that I will be eligible for benefits but was interested in your insight.

Thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 17 months ago

Your action, as you described it doesn't sound like misconduct to me, especially if the other employee didn't complain and wasn't offended. I wonder how your boss found out about the incident. The burden is on him to prove misconduct with first-hand, non-hearsay evidence. Don't allow yourself to be tricked into resigning.

Scott 17 months ago

Just so you know, I actually went up to my work today and had my boss sign a form that I prepared stating that he did in fact fire me and that I requested written documention explaining the reasons for my discharge. Actually, he heard about it from her but she wasn't complaining, she thought it was funny and was just telling him about it. That workplace has always been pretty liberal. About 1 month ago, another female team member asked him right in front of me, (excuse my language on here but this is a quote) "Hey Al, what type of pie do you like for Thanksgiving besides pussy?" All 3 of us laughed and no disciplinary action was taken against her. I mentioned that in the fact-finding form that I provided to the UIA.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 17 months ago

Points to make in your testimony: 1. You had no intent to harm your employer's interest; 2. The incident did not in fact result in harm to your employer; 3. It was at most an isolated incidence of bad judgment on your part--you had not previously said anything similar and been warned by your employer; and, as you pointed out, similar (more offensive) comments have been made by others which did not result in them being disciplined or discharged. Good luck! Let us know what the agency's determination is.

Scott 17 months ago

Thanks, and I will.

bclackey75 16 months ago

Mr Deeds,

At the restaurant where I worked, there is a dining program in which you pay $20 a month to receive 50% off food and a discount in the retail dept. It is not mandatory to be on it. I have not been on the program for over 1 1/2 yrs. Management has NEVER consistently enforced rules or disciplinary actions for ANY policy. It seems like they do when it is in their best interest- i.e. cutting down on labor. Throughout this time other employees have shared meals with me, managers have given the discount to my friends and family on 2 separate occasions, and several other incidents.

A fellow employee gave me permission to use her discount in retail. She gave me her ssn and I made a $15 purchase and was told to sign her name by one of the cashiers. I left not thinking anything of this. My G.M. got wind of this and questioned everyone and threatened termination for all those involved. The girl who gave me permission didnt know what she was being questioned for until after she was pushed out of the office. She approached a manager the next day and told them what happened. I showed up for work and was told not to come back until Tues at 10am. I returned only to be terminated for fraud. Oh, I was the only one to be reprimanded out of the 4 of us. I filed for UC and just received my denial letter for misconduct, etc. I didnt get any type of warning nor did I sign termination papers.

I understand how bad this looks. They have physical evidence where as I only have verbal permission. If I was committing fraud why would I do it on camera with witnesses who knew I wasnt the other employee? I was not trying to be under-handed or sneaky. Hey, the company still made money. Poor judgement on my part, huh?. I have requested a handbook to find out what the EXACT policy is and any disciplinary actions and I want a copy of my file as I only have 1 write up for a dine n dash... I dont feel like a proper investigation was made.

I am appealing for the first time. How am I going to prove my case? If you have any advice please let me know. Whew, sorry for the long-windedness...

I forgot to say that I had asked several times to be put back on the dining program and was brushed off like it was an inconvenience.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 16 months ago

Yours won't be an easy case to win. Your best arguments may be that (1) your requests to be put back on the program were ignored or rebuffed, (2) the rule was not enforced uniformly, i.e., that exceptions and violations by others were ignored by the employer (the legal term is "condonation", i.e. other instances of violations have been tolerated or condoned by the employer); and (3) your action was an isolated misjudgment on your part which merited a warning, not dismissal. NOTE: My comment is tentative because I have not read the case file and thus don't know the employer's side of the story. Good luck.

bclackey75 16 months ago

Thanks i need all the luck. Whats frustrating is I have to prove I had her permission and that the cashiers told me to sign her name. All they have to say is no to protect their jobs. My manager had his mind made up before talking to HR. He didnt care to hear my side of the story. He laughs everytime he fires someone on how he has power over their unemployment. I was the 4th person fired that week. Other managers had told him to put me back on the program and write me up and he said 'no, Im pissed'. Ive witnessed alot of bogus stuff at this restaurant. Wish now I had kept better records of derogatory comments made by him, but who ever sees this coming? Thanks again for your time.

cheap jordan retro 16 months ago

Nice post. My friend John told me about this blog some weeks ago but this is the first time I’m coming. I’ll undoubtedly be back.

Scott 15 months ago

Mr. Deeds

I asked you for advice about a month ago about a situation where I was fired for "sexual harassment". I just received my first determination from the UIA and they found in favor of the employer. I am obviously going to appeal it because I know my actions, although poor in judgement, were not misconduct. My questions now are: Can I find out what info my former employer provided the UIA by going to a PRO? Can I bypass the redetermination and just request a hearing? And finally, can I just do that in person at a PRO or do I have to do it my mail or fax?

Thanks for your help,

Scott

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 15 months ago

I'm not sure whether you could find out what your employer said at a PRO. You can either look at the case file once you have requested a hearing before an administrative law judge. You have 30 days from the date of the redetermination to request an ALJ hearing. Not long after you will receive a Notice of Hearing from the office of the ALJ. Once you receive that you can go to the hearing office and read your file or you can call the office of the ALJ and ask them to fax you a copy of the file. That usually takes two or three days.

I'm not positive, but I don't think you can skip the redetermination step. Good luck.

Scott 15 months ago

Just an FYI, I went to the PRO and they did give me all the info I asked for. They even printed it all right there and gave it to me. Also, they did allow me to skip the redetermination step and ask for a hearing and I was able to do it all right there at the PRO. I hope the lady knew what she was saying because I filled out the same form you would when requesting a redetermination. When I asked if I could just request a hearing instead she said sure that happens all the time just check the appeal box instead. I guess we'll see what happens.

Thanks again for your help.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 15 months ago

Thanks, Scott. You helped me learn something new about UIA procedures. If you think of it, let us know how your hearing turns out. Good luck!

Scott 15 months ago

Hey Ralph,

The lady at the PRO was correct, I had my hearing this past Tuesday, March 1. I won! "The Administrative Law Jugde finds that the claimant's behavior reflected an isolated incident of a good-faith error in judgement but did not rise to the level of misconduct within the meaning of the Act."

As always, thanks for your help and advice!

Scott

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 15 months ago

That's great news! Thanks for getting back to me and others who may read these comments. I learn something new every day.

Waiting too Long 14 months ago

Hi Mr. Deeds, I have a 2 part problem. I worked at a bad job in 2009 which I feel lead to anxiety, stress and depression. For almost a year I battled serious anxiety and depression though i did not really seek a doctor, partially because I was unemployed with no insurance and my unemployment was denied. I am much better now but I still have frequent anxiety dreams related to my last job. Would i have a chance of collecting short term disability against my last job.

Second question is I tried to file for an unemployment appeal through civil court and the county clerk lost/did not file my appeal and the deadline has long past. Thankfully I have record and receipt that I mailed an appeal request before the deadline. What are my options to keep my case alive as this is not my mistake.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 14 months ago

Sorry, but I can't be of much help on either of your problems. I have no experience with disability claims. I suspect such a claim would be difficult without medical evidence to support it.

On your second question, you might have to consult a lawyer, (which I am not). There should be some way to get your case into circuit court if you can prove that the error was the clerk's not yours. But I'm not sure what the best way to proceed would be.

Sorry I'm not able to be more helpful. Best of luck.

amber 14 months ago

Hello, I recently resigned my position with my company as my family was relocating. I applied for unemployment in the state of Indiana as this is the state I resided in before relocating to Georgia. I received my determination letter in the mail today denying my benefits stating voluntarily left employment without good cause in connection with the work. According to Indiana law

INDIANA http://www.state.in.us/legislative/ic/code/title22

IC 22-4-15-1

(c) The disqualifications provided in this section shall be subject to the following

modifications: ….

(7) An individual who, but for the voluntary separation to move to another labor market to

join a spouse who had moved to that labor market, shall not be disqualified for that

voluntary separation, if the individual is otherwise eligible for benefits. Benefits paid to the

spouse whose eligibility is established under this subdivision shall not be charged against

the employer from whom the spouse voluntarily separated.

As used in this subsection, "labor market" means the area surrounding an individual's

permanent residence, outside which the individual cannot reasonably commute on a daily

basis. In determining whether an individual can reasonably commute under this

subdivision, the department shall consider the nature of the individual's job.

I understand that I am not married to my significant other; however, we have been together over 15 years and have two daughters together ages 15 and 10. My significant other is moving due to his job and will be taking my two kids with him. In order to maintain the integrity of our family and to get married I quit my job and relocated. So what I am asking is do I have a case to appeal and do you think I can win my appeal? Also, can you give me any tips on how to appeal my case and what to include. Thanks!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 14 months ago

Thanks for your question. First, my experience is solely in Michigan. Based on that I suggest you follow the instructions on the determination and request a redetermination enclosing a letter or statement of the facts in your case. If you get an unfavorable redetermination it doesn't cost anything to request an appeal hearing before an administrative law judge (referee). If you are still in Georgia you should request a telephone hearing. Get all your facts together and tell the truth. I'm unable to predict the outcome. Sorry.

Ross Spencer 13 months ago

Good day Mr. Deeds, my employment as a manager was terminated because I admitted to telling my spouse who works for the same company that a person had been fired, this was in the privacy of our own vehicle. I was told this went against the company's code of ethics and that I was not to discuss confidential matters with my spouse.

My concern is that my former employer with fight against giving me unemployment benefits which I'm applying for.

I did not know this was a matter not to be discussed, let alone with my spouse. There have been instances of confidential matters that I did not divulge to my wife, the most prominant being a 10% reduction in force; I held that information to myself, knowing her job could be eliminated. There were also several pay raise and corporate incentive programs I was privy too that weren't shared with my spouse. I honestly did not know this was a matter not to be discussed, and it is nowhere to be found in the company's policy guide.

I have nearly 30 years of military service, hold a clearance and have held a higher level of security clearance; my character is good, my mistake was an honest one.

I have no adverse history with this employer, I was well respected and never caused a single problem. If they contest it, do you feel I have a chance to win? Any advice would be appreciated.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 13 months ago

I doubt that your private conversation with your wife would be found to be misconduct under the law in Michigan where misconduct is defined as "wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest." If your case goes to a hearing before an administrative law judge the burden will be on your employer to prove with first hand testimony that you had been informed of the policy and that you intentionally violated it. And how the interest of the company was harmed.

Ross Spencer 13 months ago

Thank you sir, and are you at liberty to tell me whether you believe that, being an "at will" employee, I should not bother pursuing any type of wrongful termination suit? I truly had nothing bad in my history and have had many stellar commendations made regarding my performance that I have in my possession. I do appreciate your response, makes me feel more at ease that I'll likely be able to provide something immediately for my family.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 13 months ago

I'm not a lawyer. However, my understanding is that the only ground for a dismissed at will employee to sue an employer is discrimination for age, race, religion, etc. And those lawsuits can be hard to win. Some states also provide protection for whistle blowers, but those suits tend to be hard to win also. If you think you may have grounds for suit you should consult an attorney. If they think you have a good case they may take your case for a share of the judgment against the employer.

Ross Spencer 13 months ago

Thanks Sir, that does seem to be the general concensus out on the web. Probably worth a conversation with an attorney.

Jim Dickson 13 months ago

Mr. Deeds, I currently work overseas (combat zone) as a contractor and just recently I had to change my assignment to another area where it could be dangarous for my native family if local thugs know that I am in town.

Does this qualify me for an unemployment? Leave due to endagngering my extended family!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 13 months ago

Sorry, but I don't know the answer to your question. It would be worthwhile to contact the Michigan Unemployment Insurance Agency or the agency in your state.

Julie 13 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

I filed a claim for unemployment against my employer because I was terminated for not showing up to work or calling in to work. I actually DID call in and have phone records from my cell phone showing that I did. The staffing office did not note my absences due to my daughters illness that was preventing her from being in daycare. After 2 days of being absent I received a voicemail from the staffing office at work stating that they were wondering where I was and I needed to contact the director of nursing. Instead of calling (which I probably should have) I just assumed I was fired and did not go to work anymore. I felt as though they should have called me on the first day I was absent instead of waiting until the second day. Had they called me the first day I would have called back and let them know what was going on but that wasn't the case. I had only been with this company for a short time and did not have any papers or was never advised of the attendance policy. I previously worked and left that job for this one because I thought it was a better opportunity. They denied my claim so I filed for a redetermination with the phone records and information. Instead of getting a redetermination I was sent right to the appeals level. My case has now had a stay put on it by the board of reviews, pursuant to rule 421.1309. Do you have any advice for me regarding my case? Also do you know what the rule means? Any thoughts would be great. Thanks.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 13 months ago

Julie, you should have been sent a list of advocates (representatives) which has names of individuals who are qualified to assist you, without charge (paid by the Unemployment Agency) in your hearing before an administrative law judge. I suggest you consult one of the advocates on that list once you have received another Notice of Hearing time and date. He or she will get a copy of your case file and advise and assist you in preparing for your hearing and at the hearing. Based on what you've told me above your case may be in a gray area. Being absent to care for a sick child is not misconduct provided you complied with your employer's procedures for reporting your absence.

Julie 13 months ago

Thanks for the advice. I have already contaced an advocate and I am not really happy with him. Alls that he has done is hear what I have to say and taken my information. He has not really advised me as to what is in my file or what sort of battle I am fighting. I know that once you give out your case number you can not give it again, is there anyway to be able to switch advocates even though my current one has my case number? Thanks.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 13 months ago

The advocacy program does not provide a way to change advocates. If you want to read your file you can go to the judge's office and ask to see it.

Within a few weeks you will be notified of another time and date of a hearing. As you observed, it would have been better if you had responded to the voicemail inquiring about your absence. The contents of the voice mail will be critical to your case. That will determine whether the judge will believe it was reasonable for you to conclude you had been terminated (fired).

Cassandra 13 months ago

I had my hearing before an ALJ and the ALJ found in my employers favor for misconduct. In the decision, my hire date is incorrect and the ALJ stated that I had willfully engaged in conduct I knew that was against my employers interest. I had an advocate for my hearing, however, he only called me once prior to the hearing and I feel did nothing to help me at the actual hearing. The event that led to my firing was me opening a file I had been given permission to access, but I accessed it "without a business reason." However, my former supervisor did state that she had given us permission to access the file - but apparently I was supposed to know that I could only access it for a business reason. What are my next steps in fighting this?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 13 months ago

At the end of the judge's decision is an explanation of how to appeal the decision. It doesn't cost anything. The Board of Review won't hold another hearing. They will base their decision on the transcript of the ALJ hearing and the case file. You have nothing to lose in an appeal. It would be in your favor if there was no clearly stated rule prohibiting you from accessing the file without a business reason. Also, whether or not you had been previously warned, disciplined or written up for any other violations. The Board of Review could find that your action was an isolated instance of poor judgment. However, the Board usually doesn't reverse ALJ decisions. Very important--the Board of Review must RECEIVE your appeal by the 30-day deadline. A postmark on the deadline doesn't work. Good luck.

Cassandra 13 months ago

So then, what would the point be in fighting the decision, if the ALJ's decisions are usually upheld? There is no specific rule prohibiting me from accessing the file. Is there anything I can do to tip the scales in my favor? I did state during the hearing that I had a conversation with my supervisor regarding one of the files and that she did not at that time tell me that I needed a reason to be in the folder.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 13 months ago

Well, if you appealed and the Board of Review reversed the judge it would mean that you would get a check for back benefits or if you received benefits you would not be asked to make restitution. If your supervisor condoned or tolerated your accessing the folder that would seem to me to be a strong point in your favor. Also, if there was no written rule prohibiting accessing the files that would also be a point in your favor. It's hard for me to evaluate your case without reading the case file. In law enforcement officers are prohibited from looking up names of drivers from license plate files for any purpose not related to law enforcement, e.g, looking up somebody for a friend or for their own personal purposes. The rule is well known and violations are considered serious. Medical records are also supposed to be private. But the rules are supposed to be made clear to every employee with access to the information. Failure to make employees aware of the rule would be a serious defect in an employer's misconduct case.

Gail  13 months ago

My unemployment claim was denied because of reference code 2 which says- Claim denied as earnings do not equal at least 5 times the most recent weekly benefit amount on last claim. I don't understand what code 2 means in the explanation of UIA reference codes. I am old and I have an IRA which I have paid the penalty to access this year. Can you tell me what code 2 is about? I thank you for the consideration.

Cassandra 13 months ago

So to appeal to the board, should I write a letter stating why I disagree with the ALJ's decision and point out the fact that I testified the employer was aware of my accessing the file but did nothing to stop it? The employer did tell our department that there were files available for us to view if needed but as I stated we had accessed the files without a business purpose in the past and the supervisor was aware of that. Thank you for your help with this, this has been a battle from the beginning and I am 7 1/2 months pregnant now so it's extremely stressful for me!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 13 months ago

Gail, sorry but I don't know the answer to your question and I don't have time right now to research it. You may want to go to one of the UIA's "Problem Resolution Offices" and discuss your question face-to-face with a UIA representative. I've heard that the people at these offices are quite helpful.

Cassandra, just follow the instructions for appealing which appear at the end of the ALJ's decision.

desmondhume 12 months ago

Hello Ralph Deeds! First off I've read through your years of advice and have learned a lot! Thanks for all your time and knowledge!

I recently discontinued working for my employer, a small business here in Michigan. I filed for unemployment and received benefits for 2 weeks. A few days later I received an “Inquiry regarding possible overpayment” stating that my employer notified the agency that I “voluntarily left employment”. When filing, I stated that I was “laid off”. It says in the letter that “I stated I was separated due to lack of work”, when actually what I meant by “laid off” when I filed online was “I was laid off due to my employer’s lack of funds (unable to pay wages)”. I don’t remember stating anything other than “laid off” so I’m not sure where the “lack of work” came from… but anyway- Here’s the story:

Summer 2010 my boss traveled to Germany. When he returned in July our weekly paychecks started coming in a few days late and then one day my boss said to another employee and I that “I don’t know what to do- I’m sorry but there are not enough funds to pay” us, and our paychecks were then 2 weeks late, and then, eventually he was paying us for the 3rd week prior. I confronted him many times about this issue stating that it was causing me financial hardship and my bills and rent-late-fees were adding up. Instead of laying me off, he continued to violate section 2 of the Payment of Wages Act 390 where- by the first of the month he is required to pay for the previous month’s first 15 days AND required to make timely wage payments on the established payday (in this case weekly on Friday). He, at one point, caught up to paying us almost consistently (within a day or 2 from Friday) for the work-week before the previous (for example I was paid on 8/18 for the 8/1 – 8/7 work week). He said our payday was going to be Wednesday from now on (changed from Friday) because it made more sense with Tuesday being the day money from incoming credit card transactions were cleared with his bank. Even still, he was then occasionally 2-3 days late and sometimes even 8-10 days late (which was usually followed by another payment a few days later to catch back up). These late payments usually occurred toward the beginning of the month when rent was due causing me expensive late fees and eviction notices and court costs which I brought to his attention on several occasions. [I hope this is making sense :)]

On 2/25/11 I received a paycheck for the 2/6 – 2/12 work week. Feb being a short month, I was later unable to make a full March rent payment because I had to take care of a DTE shut-off notice. I did not receive a paycheck the following week and on 2/5 I got an eviction notice in the mail. (even more frustrating, I also got medical bills from a collection agency totaling over $1100 for a work-injury which happened 5 months prior- which my boss had failed to file with his worker’s comp insurance... which is a whole other story :/ ) I talked to my employer telling him about the notice and the late fees and I asked if he had any funds available (anything at all) and he said he didn’t. I said that if he couldn’t pay me, then I don’t see how it makes sense for him to keep me employed. He said he was sorry and stated he would pay me on 3/7 when I came in for work. I reported for work on the 7th and immediately asked for my check and after stalling all day, he failed to pay me. I worked my full 10 hour shift and finished all open projects, loose ends, and responsibilities I was working on that day and the previous week. This was the last day I worked. I told him that I had a last minute opportunity to go to Chicago with a friend for a 4 day Computer Network Certification Class (3/8 – 3/11) that this friend wanted to attend (but not alone for 4 days in Chicago), and that I would not be working the 8th and 9th as scheduled and that he would have to cover my 2 shifts (we normally do the same job/work- he’s just the owner who straggles in after 1 or 2pm). I wouldn’t have considered attending the class except for the fact that I wasn’t getting paid, and I thought that if I did continue to work there, this network course was beneficial and relevant in my job! Also my friend agreed to pay my entrance fee and gas. My boss stated “I guess you don’t want to work here anymore” and that me not working the shifts was “nowhere near acceptable”. I finally received a check the next day on 3/8 for the 2/13 – 2/19 work week. At the end of the week while I was out of town, he sent me a message stating “I’m going to go ahead with the assumption you no longer want to work here. Bring in your keys and uniforms and bus pass next time you’re downtown.”

When I filed for Unemployment benefits I was honestly under the impression that I was Laid off because my employer didn’t have the funds to keep me employed. I honestly had NO intention of misleading the UIA into paying me benefits. The Cambridge University Press defines “Layoff” as “when someone stops employing someone, sometimes temporarily, because there is no money to pay them or because there is no work for them” [http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british]. When filing for benefits, I HONESTLY believed that this is exactly what happened to me in this situation. After confronting my boss many times, over many months (starting in July), about the financial hardship and stress he was causing me and after trying to work out a plan with him to catch back up and avoid future problems, he failed to resolve the issue. I also let him know that I thought it was ridiculous that during this time (July-Jan) he spent large amounts of money on items that were (nice to have but) not necessary to remain successful in our day-to-day business and also spent thousands at IKEA on upgrades and building improvements and workstations/desks for the shop.

I believe that when he told me to turn in my keys and Uniforms, he was informing me I was no longer employed- yet he told the UIA that I voluntarily left my employment. I turned in my keys when I returned from Chicago and was paid the remainder of my wages in two payments 3 days apart. I then requested pay stubs for my entire employment as I had never received a single paystub with my paychecks ( which is also a violation of act 390). I was given my stubs 2 weeks later (a thick folder containing years of history!) so now I have proof of payment dates which I will include as evidence with my statement to the UIA. Especially the Paystub indicating payment on 3/8 for week of 2/13-2/19.

My question to you is: Was stating that “I was laid off” wrong? Also, If it is, for whatever reason, determined that I voluntarily left- could it be considered leaving with good cause attributable to my employer? And can this misunderstanding then be corrected in my original claim or can/will it be determined that I made a false statement or misrepresentation resulting in the termination of my benefits and forced to repay damages of 2x overpayment? I can honestly say that, in this situation, I did not expect my employer to deny that I was laid off because it was, in fact, my honest belief of the reason for separation. Nothing was ever signed nor any formal statements issued regarding my separation.

I am going to send my statement in a day or so. Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 12 months ago

"My boss stated “I guess you don’t want to work here anymore” and that me not working the shifts was “nowhere near acceptable”. I finally received a check the next day on 3/8 for the 2/13 – 2/19 work week. At the end of the week while I was out of town, he sent me a message stating “I’m going to go ahead with the assumption you no longer want to work here. Bring in your keys and uniforms and bus pass next time you’re downtown.”"

The above clearly supports your contention that you were laid off or fired as does the fact that your employer was in financial difficulty and unable to make payroll on time.

Moreover, the fact that you weren't being paid on time should be ample "good cause for resigning attributable to your employer."

So, whether you were fired for not showing up for work, laid off due to your employer's financial difficulties, or you resigned because you weren't being paid on time for your work, you should be eligible for benefits, in my opinion (without the opportunity to review the UIA case file). If I were you I would lay our all the facts clearly and concisely for the agency in your request for a re-determination and if it's not favorable you should request a hearing before an administrative law judge.

u2hoff 11 months ago

I received a letter from the UIA stating that I quit my job and I could have worked an additional 30 days. I'm not sure what to do... I took the job because the law states that you much accept employment. I was collecting unemployment from being laid off a year and a half ago.

This terminal opportunity was offered to me starting in July and ending in December. During this time frame I encountered awful treatment by my supervisor. She told me that she was going to start looking to find someone to replace me. She degraded me on several occasions. After she told me she wanted to replace me I approached her and told her if she was unhappy with me then maybe I should end the term early so I could be replaced. She agreed to this and told me to write a letter of resignation.

I wrote the letter and gave a 3+ week notice of resignation. I even told her that I would simply work until the end of the term and she said that leaving a month early was fine and it would give her enough time to find someone to replace me...

I later received in the mail a notice that states that I quit my job and I owe back more than what I can even comprehend.

Do you think I should request a waiver or have you seen anyone win something like this?

Thanks much!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 11 months ago

It doesn't cost anything to ask for a redetermination or a hearing before an administrative law judge. However, the burden of proof is on claimants to show that they had good cause for quitting attributable to their employer. And the good cause bar is pretty high--e.g., being forced to work in unsafe conditions, being instructed to do something dishonest or illegal, being sexually harrassed by a supervisor or discriminated against based on race, religion or national origin. Moreover, the law requires that the employee use the complaint procedure and give the employer an opportunity to correct the issue.

u2hoff 11 months ago

Thank you Mr. Deeds!

So do you feel that I should request a waiver? I waited for over 4 months to hear from the UIA about my case and during that time I was allowed to collect unemployment. Now I have a large sum that I might have to payback.

Would the UIA ever consider that I would have been back on my regular unemployment after this 4 month temporary position? I just feel that I did what was right, I took a job and it was a huge loss in the end!

Thanks again for your help:-)

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 11 months ago

It's worth a try. Seems to me that the agency should be held responsible for the long delay. It's within the discretion of the agency to grant hardship waivers and waivers in cases where incorrect information was supplied to a claimant by a representative of the UIA.

Susan 10 months ago

Mr. Deeds

I am visiting the ALJ next week and I am looking for some advise.

I was disqualified for voluntary leaving work without good cause attributable to the employer.

Briefly, here are the facts:

1. The employer delivered a document stating that my job and my assistants job would be combined and that my current job will end on June 19. It continued to state that I would work the next 8 weeks, 40 hours per week, 1 day from home, at the reduced rate which is a 30% pay cut.

2. I resigned my position, the next day, stating I can not "After reviewing the turn of events and the level of stress this has caused my family for the past year, it is financially impossible for us to keep our children in daycare and allow me to work full time."

3. The company was having financial issues

4. For 6 months, I have offered 17 options for the company to raising revenue and lower expenses. Thus, once they decided on the course of action they wanted to take, I did not believe their was any more to negotiate terms.

Do I have a case? If so, are there any cases that will help me next week at the ALJ hearing?

Any advice would be extremely helpful.

Thank you.

slava slominov 10 months ago

Ralph, I recently was given an option of quitting or being discharged for failing to call (although I declined in microsoft outlook) or show for a "mandatory" meeting. I worked second shift and said meeting was scheduled over 5 hours before the start of my shift and I was in the routine of waking up for work an hour before the beginning of my shift. My job involved driving a forklift and pulling around 53' trailers so obviously sleep deprivation wasn't in the best interest of my employer (considering potential safety risks taken into account) if I did attend the meeting, but I'm wondering if I have a case for discrimination since I was at a disadvantage to atttend the meeting vs. someone who worked fist shit. I feel like it was unreasonable for them to put me in that situation. Please advise.

Thanks,

Slava

slava slominov 10 months ago

*shift

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

Susan, it appears to me that you had good cause attributable to your employer for resigning. I can't tell without reading the case file. But the courts have ruled that significant reductions in pay or benefits are good cause for quitting. (One case ruled that a 17% pay cut was good cause.

Slava, it sounds to me like you were fired for an incident that didn't amount to disqualifying misconduct under the unemployment statute. However, any prior disciplinary actions (warnings, write-ups, etc.) would be a factor also.

Susan 10 months ago

Thank you Mr. Deeds.

Can you share with me the case of the 17% court ruling or link to the case that you stated? I believe that will help my case. I have the document from the employer stating the financial issues and the pay cut to be implemented 4 days later.

Thank you,

Susan

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

The case citation is

Wasolaskus (Tom's Grandville Station), 1978 BR 55248 (FSB76 132110

Board of Review Holding: A seventeen (17) percent reduction in wages is good cause for voluntarily leaving part-time work.

FACTS: The claimant was a part-time attendant at a filling station. He worked 20 hours per week at $2.50 per hour. The claimant's pay was subsecuently reduced about $40 per month by his removal from the Saturday work schedule. The claimant resigned as a result.

DECISION: The claimant is not disqualified for voluntary leaving.

RATIONALE: "Jack Desser, d/b/a jack Desser Biscuit Company v Appeal board Wayne County Circuit Court, No. 324-748 (July 5, 1962(), held that a 'substantial reduction' in wages can constitute 'good cause' for quitting one's employment. The 'substantial reduction' in Desser consisted of a 20 percent reduction in claimant's gross commissions. The curtailment of hours imposed by employer upon claimant in this case would have reduced his income by approximately 17 percent if he had continued his employment. The reduction in wages was 'substantial.'

"The part-time nature of claimant's employment does not, per se alter the substantiality of the reduction in claimant's wages."

[From Board of Review Case Summary.]

Note: A link to the complete Board of Review Case Summaries can be found above on this website. If you look under voluntary leaving you can find all the cases in the summary which deal with quitting. Here's the link: http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

Slava 10 months ago

Ralph, I worked there 7 years in which time I had positive reviews and no disciplinary actions or write ups. I'll use that as my angle when I dispute the determination that disqualified me from receiving unemployment benefits. Thanks for your help.

Slava

Susan 10 months ago

Thank you for the case. It should come in handy next week.

Any other advise is welcomed!!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

Susan, get an advocate to assist you in presenting your case to the administrative law judge. And get to the hearing on time!

Susan 10 months ago

Mr Deeds

I do have an advocate however we have only talked for 10 minutes over the phone on Friday. He has been assigned my case number and I have emailed him a few documents. I am waiting to hear from him for a follow up meeting or conversation. It is just hard to sit back and wait ... this whole ordeal has been very difficult and stressful.

I will get to the hearing very early for sure.

Thank you.

Susan 10 months ago

One more question. Is it better to present the Desser case or the Wasolaskus-Tom's Grandville Station?

Is there a difference in merit or relevance since one came from the circuit court and the other came from the Board of Review?

Thank you again!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

At the end of the hearing I sometimes offer the judge a copy of the Board of Review Case summary or just cite it orally in my summary at the end of the hearing. Both cases are mentioned in the Board of Review case summary. The important thing is to get the amount and percentage of the reduction in your earnings onto the record of the hearing. I hesitate to stick my nose into your case. Your advocate will get a copy of the case file and discuss it with you a day or two before the hearing or at the hearing office a half hour or so before the hearing. At least that's what I do.

Susan 10 months ago

Thank you kindly for your response, honesty, and advise. I appreciate your time.

Susan

Slava 10 months ago

Ralph, One more question if you don't mind. On my determination (which disqualified me on account of 'misconduct') the last paragraph reads that I'm disqualified until a completion of a $6,154.00 earnings rework requirment which has not been satisidied. Do you know what this might be about?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

Susan, when someone runs out of benefits or is disqualified for misconduct or voluntary leaving, etc., they are required, in effect, to start over and earn a certain amount of credits in order to become eligible again for benefits in the event they are laid off.

slava 10 months ago

Ralph, Okay so if I prove what I did in fact wasn't misconduct then this will not be taken into account, correct? I'm assuming that I should concentrate on proving what I did wasn't misconduct and shouldn't mention anything about said earnings in my appeal to the determination, yes?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

Slava, correct. If whatever you did or didn't do is found to be misconduct you will have to re-qualify. That's automatic. If what you did was not found to be misconduct you will receive benefits or not have to repay benefits you received. Misconduct is defined under court decisions as "willful (intentional) or wanton disregard of the employer's interest." This can be a single serious violation--dishonesty, negligence, drugs, fighting, etc.--or repeated less serious violations after being warned--e.g. tardiness, absence without reasonable cause, coming back a minute or two late from lunch.

Slava 10 months ago

Ralph, It's funny I can't get a hold of anyone to ask questions at the unemployment center, but you are on top of everbodies question. We all appreciate it!! But yeah I just missed a meeting that was scheduled 5 hours before the start of my shift that if I would have attended it would have caused sleep deprivation (on account of my sleep routine I would have only gotten 3 hours of sleep) and a potential safety risk (I drove a forklift and a switch truck). Since in the 7 years I worked there I never had any disciplinary action towards me or a write up I should be in great shape. I doubt the state of michigan will like to hear that I was fired for using good safety judgement. Thanks again!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

Slava, thanks for your kind comment. [I'm pretty much retired and have a fair amount of time on my hands.] Good luck!

Slava 10 months ago

I mailed my protest to the determination and requested a redetermination. I'll let you know how it goes and if there is any other advice you would be kind enough to provide me for the next step. Thanks again!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

Slava and Susan, if you think of it let us know how your cases turn out. Thanks.

Susan 10 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

Here is the update:

I went to the ALJ hearing today. My employer did not show up. The judge was kind and just wanted the facts, which were:.

1. The official document stating that I would receive a 30% pay cut for 8 weeks and then I would be layed off.

2. The letter stating that I resigned due to the drastic cut.

We meet for 10 minutes.

My lawyer/advocate seemed very confident that I will qualify for unemployment.

My concern is that I did not "prove" nor was directly asked if I tried to work through the issue.

If asked directly if I tried to work through the issue, I would of stated I tried to work through this and avoid the financial issues at hand for 6 months. In the official document, it clearly states the financial issues at hand.

My question is as follows:

1. Does the judge take the 2 documents and thoroughly read them over(if so he will get a clear picture that there was no wiggle room to renegotiate the pay cut) (All he did at the hearing was glance over the papers)...

2. What does it mean to the judge when the employer is a no show?

Thanks for all your help and advise ... I will keep you posted.

Susan

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

It's to your advantage that the employer didn't show up. However, unlike a misconduct case where the burden is on the employer, the burden remains on you to convince the judge that you had good cause attributable to the employer for leaving. Sounds to me as if you are okay. Thanks for getting back. Let us know how the decision turns out. Best of luck.

mit 10 months ago

I mistakenly withdrew my case after receiving a settlement agreement that said the company would not appeal not knowing that this is not for them to determine.what do I do now

Timmy 10 months ago

Hi,

I'm current receiving unemployment benefit (out of state) from California, but living in Seattle. I will have to go oversea for one month due to family emergency. Now if I go and don't notify California EDD of my leaving and continue to submit my bi-weekly claimform via the internet (as I have been doing), does this consider fraud, if so what is the penalty for this ? Thanks in advance.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

mit, If you're in Michigan you might try going to one of the UIA's Problem Resolution Offices and speak face-to-face with a real live human representative of the unemployment agency. I don't have any other suggestions other than throwing yourself on the mercy of the Agency.

Timmy, my experience is in Michigan. I don't have an first-hand knowledge of the California statute so I don't have any definite advice for you. I would be inclined to report that you are not available and seeking work for the period you are out of the country which means that you won't get benefits for that period, but those weeks won't count against your maximum number of weeks so you will get benefits longer when you return for the number of weeks you missed provided you are still unemployed and seeking work. In other words, there will be a gap in your benefits but the period for which you are eligible will be extended.

Susan 10 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

I am still waiting but I have another question to ask.

A friend was laid off from the position he was originally hired for because the position was eliminated on "x" date. He would then, under a re-titled role (on the next day, "Y"), do a different job for 11 weeks and then no longer be employed as of "z" date. It was the same employer and no change in pay rate or hours.

1. While doing the re-titled job, he was dismissed for misconduct (11 days in to the new role). During this time, he started a new company that directly competed with the employer with similar products that he used to manage under his original job title. It was not the product he was re-titled to manage for 11 weeks. The products that he was offering were not on the market (they are fall/spring products)

2. Can he collect unemployment for being laid off from his original job title?

3. Is this cut and dry case of being disqualified? He willfully competed against his employer's products that were not currently offered, does he have any leg to stand on to get unemployment based on the first eliminated job???

Again, thank you for your advise, I am sure my friend's issue is going to be drawn out and eventually to a hearing ... I'll keep you posted on my issue and on his ...

Susan

Susan 10 months ago

Mr. Deeds:

The letter came this afternoon. It stated:

"The claimant left her work voluntarily but it was with good cause attributable to the employer. Her compensation if she had continued to working would have been reduced by about 30%. Decisions of Michigan's courts have indicated that a quit in the face of 20 percent reduction is with good cause attributable to the employer"

So the UIA determination has been reversed and I am not disqualified from collected my unemployment.

It continues to say that the decision will become final on August 19.

My question is - Does my employer have a case to appeal? They were a no show at the hearing and have not filed any paper work to date.

Thank you for all you advise during this trying time.

Susan

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

Susan, congratulations and thanks for letting us know the outcome of your hearing. Your employer can appeal, but the chances of reversal are close to zero.

Second, based on what you said, I don't think the chances are good for your friend getting a favorable ruling from the administrative law judge.

Susan 10 months ago

Thank you Mr. Deeds. This "unemployment" is something I have never experienced before. It has been very stressful and one that I do not want to every see again. I have final closure now, and can continue my job search without this black cloud over me. I appreciate all your feedback.

As for my friend, I thought the same thing as you ... his actions created his firing not the employer. Nevertheless, I see him fighting and putting all his energy into that instead of getting a new job ... we shall see.

Take care and thank you for your advise ... for those of us that this is very new to, we all appreciate your time!

Susan

Tanya 10 months ago

Hello! Not sure if you can help, but I thought why not ask. I gave notice to my job, after not being able to secure a second job. Now before this, I lived with my mother and step-dad. They moved to Ohio due to not finding work in Michigan and letting the house go after bankruptcy. So I found a furnished apartment to rent for two months, due to extending my car payments two more months. I try to find work with no luck. So I gave notice as said and move to Ohio. I also had been looking for work in Ohio too. After leaving Michigan and being in Ohio for a month, I decided to apply for unemployment. I have been denied, I appealed, it was denied, then it was a split decision, so a third person had to decide which was denied, and now I have asked for a rehearing with the Board of Review. What bothers me is that it has been over two years for this last decision. How long does it usually take. I know they are backed up, but this is crazy. If it wasn't for my family, I don't know what I would do. I only found part-time work, working 15-20 hours a week. I get food assistants, but its not much. I did go to school for 9 months and graduate looking for work now. But this unemployment thing I feel has gone on to long. I really think I gave them enough information to approve me. The fact that I would have been homeless if I stayed in Michigan. Please would you tell me your take on my situation? Thank you so much for your time.

Tanya from Ohio

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

The deck is stacked against anyone who resigns their job. Those cases are very hard to win. I heard recently that the Board of Review has a huge backlog of cases. Sorry I can't be more encouraging.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 10 months ago

Governor Snyder has Undermined Michigan's Unemployment Compensation System when Michigan Needs it Badly

Governor Snyder has recently taken actions that undermine Michigan’s unemployment compensation system. In June he signed a bill passed by the legislature which reduced the maximum duration of unemployment insurance benefits by 23%, from 26 weeks to 20 weeks. Twenty-six weeks has been the maximum benefit duration since the inception of the program. All other states continue to provide 26 weeks of benefits.

This step, taken during a deep and continuing recession and high unemployment, was heartless and inhumane.

As if that weren’t enough, in July Governor Snyder signed an executive order abolishing the Board of Review (unemployment compensation appeals board) and moving the function to a new appeals body combining workers compensation and unemployment compensation appeals. Only one member of the current Board of Review was reappointed. One Lansing GOP politico characterized the move as a “house cleaning.”

For many years the Board of Review has been composed, in accordance with the unemployment compensation statute, of five members--a chair person and four members appointed by the Governor for 4-year terms. Two of the members have been designated as “employer members” and two as “claimant members.” Experience representing employers was a requisite of appointment as an employer member and experience representing claimants was a requisite of being appointed a claimant member. These requirements were intended to assure fair consideration of the interests of claimants and employers in accordance with the purpose of the unemployment statute. This safeguard was dropped under Governor Snyder’s executive order which provides for a 9-member appeals body without any requirement of experience representing employers or claimants. In the current Republican administration there is likely to be a heavy employer thumb on the scales of justice, and perhaps toward claimants in a future Democratic administration. Thus, the governor’s executive order is unwise, short-sighted public policy, in my opinion.

Susan 10 months ago

Thanks Govern Synder ... you really know how to represent your people during trying times ...

Hi Mr. Deeds,

One more question ... my friend was told that he has a case based on "Inconsistencies /Due Process Violations" ... do you have any insight on the "Due Process" before a termination?

Again thank you for all your advise!

Susan

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

Susan, sorry but I'm not sure what "due process violations" refers to. Possibly it refers to dishonesty on the part of the employer in its dealings with your friend. If you think of it let us know how the case turns out.

slava 9 months ago

Ralph, I just received the redetermination of a redetermination, and they have turned there case around 180 degrees.

The argument in the determination said, "I quit my job....... You had been given the option of quiting or being discharged for failing call or show for a mandatory meeting held at my request. Your actions constititue misconduct. It is found that you were fired for a deliberate disregard of your employers interest."

My prostest proved that by not attending said meeting which was held at 10:45AM was not in fact 'misconduct' on account of my sleeping routine (my schedule involved staying up until about 6am and waking close to my 4pm start time), and by attending the meeting there would be safety concerns, since my job involving driving heavy machinery, and pulling around 53' foot trailers (I would have only gotten around three or four hours of sleep). I went on to argue that as a Team Leader I was responsible for holding monthly safety meetings, and one of the most recent topics involved the dangers of sleep deprivation. Furthermore, I debate that an action like missing a mandatory meeting doesn't constitute discharge in the employer handbook. I also quoted passages from the employee handbook, that said it is the responsibility of the employee to make safe decisions. I also proved that by not attending the meeting that it didn't harm the employer because the reason it was set up to begin with a couple weeks prior was because I had mentioned to my boss that I wanted to potentially take on responsibilities in a different position within the department. Since that discussion, I had many people talk to me about the idea, and after getting their feedback I decided to stay performing my current duties. At that point, logically, the meeting held no value. I basically shut them down, giving them no room for rebuttale.

Then today, I get the redetermination of a redetermination and their story changed 180 degrees. They state, "You quit your job with....... when you chose not to attend a mandatory meeting at 10:45AM after you worked until midnight the night before. You felt it to be unreasonable to expect you to attend because it interrupted your sleep schedule. The employer thought you should look for a position in a different department. You volunteered to submit a 2 week notice. The decision is modified. It is found that you voluntarily quit your job without good cause attributable to the employer...."

When I missed the meeting I was told that I could no longer continue to perform the duties of my current position and could not work in the department. I was told there might be openings in other departments (entry level positions) available for me. At that point I suggested potentially putting in my two week notice. My thinking was that I started out as a material handler (hourly)...moved up to logistics coordinator (salary)....then to Team Leader (salary). Obviously taking one of their offers would severly damage my resume'/future. The gentleman I was speaking to said that putting in my two week notice might be an option, but he wanted for me to wait until the next day for a call that would go over what open positions were available for me to chose from. The next day when I got a call they said that they are going to grant me my wish to put in my two week notice (NO jobs were offered). So back to the agrument. The latest argument (which proves them liars from the first) says that I 'voluntarily quit my job without good cause attributable to the employer.' Obviously that is completly false because NO jobs were officially offered and the one's that were brought up that would potentially be offered would have been huge demotions which would have effected my resume'/future. I think it's pretty obvious that any reasonable person would have acted the way I did under this circumstance and I had very good cause. I don't see how it's legal for them to make an agrument and then when it's proven wrong, change their argument to another that is even easier to prove wrong. Anyway, the next step appears to be getting a hearing before an administrative law judge. Would you be gratious enough to offer any advice.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

It appears to me that you were, in fact, fired as a result of a single absence for which you had a good reason. The burden will be on the employer to establish misconduct. I think he will have a hard time doing that and would also have a hard time proving that your leaving was voluntary. I suggest you request a hearing before an ALJ and when you get the notice of hearing and list of advocates. Get signed up with an advocate to help you present your side of the case to the judge. Good luck.

slava 9 months ago

Thanks Ralph! I will do so. So basically I have to write a letter explaing what I explained to you, and request a hearing to the AJL, correct? Is that to the same address I mailed my the original request for a redetermination? Then I will receive a 'referee hearing notice', and from there I call the advocate, correct? Also, I know companies are 'at-will' employers, but do you think I have a case for compensation after I win my case for unemployment *crossing fingers*? It's had for me to believe that employers can get away with such callous behavior without paying out a considerable amount of money to their victims. This question might go beyond your specialty..........

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

You don't need to explain anything. Just write a letter to the Agency at the address from which the redet came and tell them that you disagree with the redetermination and that you are requesting a hearing before an administrative law judge. Then you will receive a "notice of hearing" and a list of advocates. I doubt that you would have a case for any compensation other than unemployment compensation. Michigan is an "at will" state which means that employers can fire anyone without "good cause." The only exception is that they may not discriminate based on age, race, sex or religion. And proving discrimination is difficult.

slava 9 months ago

Thanks! I understand that, but can't I easily prove that I was discriminated against on account off working second shift, since a first shift employee would obviously be at an advantage to make said meeting at 10:45AM when my start time was 4:00PM?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

Well, you can make that argument to the judge at the hearing. If you put it in your appeal letter you just tip off the employer's advocate or attorney to the argument you plan to make when he gets a copy of the case file in advance of the hearing. The hearings are "de novo" meaining that the judge bases his decision only on non-hearsay evidence and arguments presented under oath at the hearing. So, I don't see what you would accomplish by presenting new arguments or repeating arguments you have previously made in your appeal letter. On the other hand, it probably wouldn't hurt anything and the judge might read it and be influenced by it.

slava 9 months ago

Thanks again. I'll let you know how this one progresses.....

Krystal 9 months ago

I live and work in Michigan and have had to use my FMLA for issues caused by work IE my mental health.My job told me due to using all my FMLA I would have to be fired until I get well then they want to hire me back in the mean time they want me to be on Long Term Disability which only pays 60 percent of my wages and in this day and age there is no way I could make it on that.Can I file for unemployment because technically I am being fired and Can still work???PLEASE HELP!!! I want to also add my councilor did write a recommendation letter that I quit due to health issues with this job but did advise I can still work full time.

Krystal85 9 months ago

Additional Details:

I would like to clear up the fact that the Long Term Disability is provided via my current (soon to be ex)employer not through the state and I am not disabled in any way shape or form other then with the stress,anxiety,depression,ect because of my current job and I only have intermittent leave set up to allow me to miss work due to episodes and councilor visits but my current employer can not accommodate my Doc's request because my time is all used up.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

Based on your comment it appears to me that you will have a hard time establishing eligibility for unemployment benefits because to be eligible you must be able to work and seeking work. The purpose of unemployment compensation is to provide income to tide people over during periods of involuntary unemployment. In general individuals who are disabled temporarily or permanently are not eligible.

Krystal 9 months ago

See and thats what I do not understand because I have a Doctors note that says I can work anytime,I just need to have my councilor visits once every two weeks and I have

anxiety but to be honest I think its because of the job and pressure as I'm sure you know call centers are the worst and note the fact its a big bank and we have huge sales goals and a limited time to do it in or we are let go of anyway.

agapeheart 9 months ago

Dear Ralph,

I've read a lot or what you've said here and you say sooth for the most part. I scrolled through most of the recent posts and didn't notice anything that pertained to my situation.

I was classified and paid as an independent contractor for almost 13 years. Over the past 2 years my "boss" has felt the need to control my every move, limiting me to what I could and could not do for the customer; refused to pay me for time I've worked for the cusomer because she didn't "authorize" it; stood over me and demanded to know where the email I was reading came from; required me to make weekly reportings to her; changed my work location; controlled how I made my reports to the customer, etc. Much of this is hearsay but I also have a lot of hardcopy,

I was trained by my predecessors, by the employer or was self-taught programs in order to perform my job.

I was also required to attend bi-weekly meetings and paid by the hour.

I had absolutely no overhead expenses incurred as everything was supplied either by the customer or the "boss,"

I was paid 1099, but responded to the UIA that I believed that I was misclassified.

On 7/14/2011 my "boss" called me and informed me that, as of that date, there was no longer any work for me at the location where I had worked for over a decade. I know this was a lie because I knew there was work for me to do the last day that I worked; I had already checked my email that day and discovered additional work to do, etc. Oh, and the "boss" has replaced me with someone else and claimed that I was terminated because I violated "company policy" (which has never existed, at least in hardcopy form.)

After my termination I filed for UIA benefits and the "boss" claimed that I had no earned income for the benefit year and also that I was terminated due to violating company policy.

Today I received notification from UIA that I had failed to establish a benefit period and my earnings are not subject to the MES Act,

I'm of the opinion that I need to pursue an ALJ review at this time. All the documentation I sent to the UIA was obviously either ignored or the recipient was not authorized/competent/authorized to respond to.

I know I was a misclassified employee, but how do I respond to this and what should I expect upon the ALJ review? How should I prepare for this?

Thank you in advance for your help,

slava 9 months ago

One more thing (if you would be kind enough to advise), I noticed in their notice of determination that I was disqualified for benefits under 29(1)(B), and then after proving that what I did wasn't misconduct, in the notice of redetermination of a redetermination I was disqualified under 29(1)(A). Can they legally change their argument like that? It seems like their lying and inconsistencies would have consequences on their behalf. Let me know if you can offer any advice on this because I want to be prepared for my appeal. Thanks again!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

Krystal, perhaps I misinterpreted your comment above. As long as your doctor says you can work you should be okay on that issue.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

Slava, the Unemployment Agency bases it's determinations and redeterminations on the information furnished by claimants and employers, and it makes plenty of mistakes. Usually the administrative law judge decisions correct those mistakes although they aren't infallible either.

slava 9 months ago

10-4. Thanks!

Krystal 9 months ago

Thank you for your help!!!One other thing I wanted to know is if I were to be disqualified for benefits is it true I can requalify by rework or to call in for x number of weeks?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

You can re-gualify for benefits only by working the required number of weeks. I don't remember how many weeks and don't have time right now to look it up. You can't re-qualify by calling in.

Krystal 9 months ago

Ok thank you I knew that sounded crazy thats what the rep told me today when I called in,she said there were two ways two requalify and said to do the rework or phone in every two weeks for 13 or 26 without pay and after that period then I would begin to get benifits.But each time I haved called in I have been told diffrent things,it would be nice to be able to have the right info.Thanks again for your help!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

Krysta, if you are having problems getting answers over the phone you may want to take the time to go to a UIA Problem Resolution Office where you can talk face-to-face with an actual human being. I've had good reports on the service provided at these offices. Here's a link to their web page. [And you may want to double check on the calling in issue. I've never heard of anything suggesting that you could re-qualify by calling in. But I've been wrong before. If you find out anything more let me know.]

http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--78925--,

PRO Locations:

Detroit - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-385, Detroit, MI 48202

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

Grand Rapids - 3391 Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

Kalamazoo (temporary) - Kalamazoo County DHS, 322 East Stockbridge Ave., Kalamazoo, MI 49001 * THIS SITE IS SCHEDULED TO PERMANENTLY CLOSE ON APRIL 29, 2011 at 4:00PM.

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

Mt. Clemens (temporary) - Macomb County DHS, 21885 Dunham Rd., Suite 7, Clinton Twp., MI 48036

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

Muskegon (temporary) - Muskegon County DHS, 2700 Baker St., Muskegon Heights, MI 49444

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

agapegeart 9 months ago

Hey Ralph,

I posted here a couple of days ago and thus far have not received anything from you in terms of a response. Did I do this incorrectly, are you unable to answer my question or what?

Please let me know either way.

Thanx,

agapeheart

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

agapegeart, sorry for the delay. It sounds to me as if you may well be an employee covered by the unemployment compensation statute not an independent contractor.

The controlling case is Socher v Allegan General Hospital, No. 70531 (Mich App December 29,1983); den 422 Mich 882 (1985) The Michigan Supreme Court reversed the Court of Appeals and reinstated the Board of Review decision.

FACTS: Claimant, an emergency room physician, had an oral contract with the employer. Compensatin was $25 per hour or 85% of the patient billings attributed to the claimant, whichever was greater. Taxes were not withheld, nor did he receive any fringe benefits. The equipment, medication and instruments were provided by the hospital.

Decision: The services involved were employment as defined by Section 42 of the MES Act.

RATIONALE: The "economic reality" test looks to the totality of the circumstances surrounding the work performed and focuses on the relationship of the worker and his work to the employer's business operation. See McKissic v Bodine. The claimant was not subject to any control as to the manner in chich he performed his professional services for any given patient but could assess fees therefor only within the limits prescribed by the hospital and who was obligated to report for work and continue working at such times and throughout such periods as directed by the hospital. He could not hire or fire anyone who assisted him but instead had to accept those provided by the hospital and, at least understood, that he could not perform professional services elsewhere. The claimant's services were a part of a larger common task, i.e., the provision of hospital care to those in need. He was not an independent contractor.

There are additional summaries of decisions which you should review in Chapter 17 of this digest of unemployment compensation decisions here:

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

Dylan 9 months ago

I am in need of help!!!! I have hours that can be used for leave as needed (intermittent hours)that was given to me by my DR.Well the problem is I called hours in,and without my knowledge my employer put me on a full leave from work because I took three days off (which is within the time given to me by my DR) and they now want paper work to support that full time leave which my DR will not do because I do not need to be on leave full time I am more then able to be at work.My FMLA time which is what this leave is counting against is almost out and I am so worried I'm going to be fired if this happens would I be able to get my benefits because my employer did this change without mine or my doctors consent?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

I don't believe an absence covered by a doctor's statement would be considered disqualifying misconduct under the statute. It might be wise to discuss the issues with someone in the personnel department, and explain that your health issues don't require you to be on a full time leave.

agapegeart 9 months ago

Hi Ralph,

So all I've read indicates that this whole issue needs to be presented to an ALJ in order to be resolved and I get any compensation, yes? I was hoping to bypass and avoid this as I never want to see her again. Is there nobody lower than an ALJ who can determine that I was an employee and not in fact an independent ontractor?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

agapegeart

The steps in the procedure are as follows:

1. Application for benefits

2. Determination by UIA

3. Redetermination by UIA based on information furnished by claimant and employer

4. Appeal to hearing before administrative law judge

5. Appeal to Michigan Unemployment Compensation Board of Review or directly to Circuit Court. (The Board of Review nearly always bases its decisions on the transcript of the ALJ hearing. It rarely holds another hearing.)

6. Board of Review decisions may be appeal to circuit courts.

7. Circuit court decisions may be appealed to state appellate courts and to the state Supreme Court and on to federal courts of appeal. These are infrequent because of legal costs which may exceed the amount of the benefits involved.

Alisa 9 months ago

My Doctor has worte me a note saying due to the stress,depression and nature of my call center job I should quit and go into a new line of work would I still be able to get my unemployment?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

Alisa, The unemployment law doesn't treat people favorably who quit their jobs. So, the best advice is to find another job before you quit the one you have. That said, in my opinion, you should be eligible for benefits. Here's a decision which would support your eligibility:

Wynne (Michigan Department of Social Services), 1988 BR 103153W (886-07148).

Board of Review Holding: A leaving due to established illness which is at the direction of a physician is involuntary and does not subject the claimant to disqualification under Section 29(1) (a).

FACTS: The claimant found her work stressful and suffered from hypertension, tension headaches and colitis. She unsuccessfully sought a transfer. She left her employment on the advice of her doctor.

RATIONALE: The majority analyzed the construction of Section 29 as well as former decisions dealing with involuntary leaving. It concluded that the Referee's application of Watson v Murdock's Food was erroneous as the claimant's leaving due to illness and at the direction of her physician was involuntary.

A minority disagreed saying that the deparation must be with good cause attributable to the employer. But, a claimant who leaves work for health reasons may avoid disqualification if it is established (1) the medical problem arose out of the work environment, (2) the claimant approached the employer to alleviate the condition causing the problem, or to find a way of retaining employment despite the problem, (3) the employer created the condition or, having knowledge of the condition, was unable or unwilling to alleviate it or to provide alternative employment and (4) the claimant was still able to perform work within the medical restriction if the conditions in the work environment causing or aggravating the medical problem were abated.

These members concluded the claimant's separation was with good cause attributable to the employer and not disqualifying.

Your eligibility may depend on how clear and conclusive attributing your condition to your job your doctor's note is and how consistent your situation is in other respects (request a transfer to another assignment) with the above decision.

Alisa 9 months ago

Thank you for your help with this matter.I don't know if what I got from my DR is enough here is it what it says...

Alisa has asked us to disclose that she has Depression and ansixty.She may benifit from a position with less stress.

And with it being a call center there is no other positions there so he has advised me to look for other employment and quit this job.But he did not add that to the letter and that was my reason for concern.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

You are in a gray area. The result might depend on who you have for your ALJ hearing.

Robert 9 months ago

A friend of mine told me about this site and I want to first start off for thanking you for all of your help,the unemployment system is a hard system to understand and you have been wounderful at helping people get some kind of understanding.I would just like to ask if my employer fired me over the phone but will not change the date in the system until they have all paperwork in from my Doctor what should I do?Can they do this?The date I was told I was fired was on the 8/16 but I can not file because they sent a fact fiding form back in that said I was still working there.Any help I can get I would be so greatful for thank you in advance for your time!!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

It may be worthwhile to go to the nearest unemployment agency "Problem Resolution Office" and discuss your problem face-to-face with a live representative of the agency. I've heard that the employees in these offices are knowledgeable and helpful in unraveling problems. Otherwise the truth will eventually come out in a hearing before an administrative law judge. I don't see why the UIA wouldn't allow you to apply for benefits no matter what your employer is telling them. Seems to me you have a right to apply for benefits and get an eligibility decision based on the facts you have supplied and the information (misinformation?) your former employer has provided. Hopefully, someone at a Problem Resolution Office will listen to your story and apply some common sense to your situation.

http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--78925--,

u2hoff 9 months ago

Hi Mr. Deeds,

I have a very frustrating long drawn out case with the UIA. I worked a temporary term position for 3 months- during this time I was collecting unemployment because I was laid off from my prior job. My boss at my temporary job told me that she was going to replace me. I approached her we decided that I could leave my term position 1 month early ( I also gave a 3 week notice too..). I spoke with a manager from one of the IUA branches that informed me that I could continue to collect unemployment and everything would be fine.

After leaving my position I continued to collect unemployment. I received a letter from the UIA staring that I quit my job. This letter was in January of 2011. I sent my timely protest and inquired about their determination on several occasions. I spoke with numerous UIA employees about my case. I was told that my case was a mess because "I had so many hands in the pot". I didn't hear back about a decision on my case for over 4+ months! I was still encouraged to call in and collect my weekly amounts. So now I have received letters stating that I owe back over $8,000. I have even had times where I call in to discuss my case with a UIA employee and the amount is over $9,000+.

So my question is, I'm at the place where I can request a hearing. Do to the fact that I've been proactive with my case - calling about every 2 weeks to see what's going on with my case- going into the branch location and speaking with a person from the UIA. I was told to keep collecting during this drawn out phase. I feel that the UIA took their time responding and I was told to keep collecting, so now I have a huge amount to pay back. I just feel that this is very unjust. I've had to go out of my way to correct information that the UIA has messed up- like incorrect payback amounts... Do you think I should get a lawyer? Do you think I even have a case? I just feel like this has gone on now for over 9 months and it has truly made me sick.

Thanks for listening. It's comforting to see that I can get some help from you.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

Yes, I think you have a case although it's hard to say without reading the case file. If you received benefits due to an Agency error you may be excused from repaying them. An administrative law judge may find that you are eligible. Yes, you should get a lawyer or advocate through the UIA advocacy program. Most lawyers don't know much about unemployment compensation law, but most of the lawyers on the Advocacy Program list are qualified in this field. And they don't charge for serving as your representative for administrative law judge appeal hearings. They are paid by the Unemployment Insurance Agency for representing claimants and employers.

You should keep calling MARVIN to certify until your appeals are resolved.

u2hoff 9 months ago

:-)

Do you have any examples of what types of agency errors I could be looking for? I probably spoke to 15 UIA individuals on the phone about this case... Do they record every phone call? I hope so!!! Do I have the ability to access my case file?

Thanks much!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

I don't believe they record phone calls. Establishing agency errors isn't easy unless they send you something in writing that's incorrect or unless you took notes of the phone conversations and got the name of the person with whom you spoke. However, your unrebutted testimony about what you were told by a representative of the agency may help with the judge.

Once you receive a notice of hearing you can go to the hearing office and ask to see your file. It would be a good idea to call the judge's office and speak with his secretary about what you have to do to see your file.

Matt Stevens 9 months ago

I manage a restaurant and some servers have discovered they can reduce their availability - meaning they work less hours at THEIR request - and then they file underemployment. My payroll company tells me I can't do anything about this, even though I have a record of the employees' requested schedule - - they request in writing the time they are available for any specific week. Please help. I can't afford to pay the higher UIA premiums and I feel like my employees are scamming the system. Thanks.

I can't seem to find any references to this online.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

Interesting question. I'm a claimant representative, so I don't usually get involved in advising employers. However, it seems to me that you have the authority to establish work schedules for your employees and that their failure or refusal to comply would constitute misconduct under the statute and render them ineligible for benefits if you dismissed them. I'll see if I can find a court precedent on availability that fits your situation.

Here's one case;

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

Here are some cases on part-time unemployment:

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

Here are some cases on refusal of work.

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

Here is a link to a digest of key court decisions on unemployment benefits.

Another possible option for you would be to protest the benefits on the basis that benefits are payable only for INVOLUNTARY periods of unemployment or under employment.

kay321-123 9 months ago

Good Mornnong Mr. Deeds,

I was told that I could continue collecting unemployment while working a 4 month job @ 30 hours per week. Do you agree that this would be okay to do?

Thank you!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 9 months ago

I think it would be okay, except I believe you are obligated to be available and seeking full time employment. The benefits are intended for people who are involuntarily unemployed or under-employed and are available and seeking work.

u2hoff 8 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

I just received a bill from the UIA stating that I have overpayments due of $9000.00. I'm currently in the process of protesting my case and waiting for a court date. This document also says that interest of 1% per month is accumulating during this time! I had no idea that interest was also tacked on to the overpayments. No wonder the UIA told me to continue to collect for almost 5 months while I waited for the 1st decision about my case! This makes me sick!

I appreciate your responses to my situation,

Thank you !

DanB 8 months ago

I was just denied unemployment compensation and I'm not certain why...I worked for one employer for about five years (in Michigan) and quit in March 2011. On April 1st I started work for another company, but was recently let go for lack of work. UIA is denying my claim because it states the first company has work; however, I know live three hours away from that place of employment. Do I have a case to appeal the decision? If so, what is the best argument? Thank you so much for any advice!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

DanB--Yes, I believe you have a case. You should not be obligated to accept a job three hours away from hour home nor move closer to the available job.

U2hoff, that's the first I've heard of a 1% interest charge. I'll see what I can find out. It sounds like something Rick Snyder and the Republican legislators might have come up with. I suggest you pursue your appeal and continue to certify with MARVIN in accordance with agency procedures.

u2hoff 8 months ago

Thanks again Mr. Deeds,

I feel like it's not legal for the UIA to tag on an interest rate! I was not aware that I would have to payback + interest! If you find out any information, please let me know. I tried calling the collections agency today and I had no luck getting to anyone.

Thanks!!!! You are so helpful and a breath of fresh air!

u2hoff 8 months ago

I talked to a lady in collections. She was not aware of the 1% interest rate either. However, she called me back and stated that she discovered that legislature passed a bill as of March of 2011 that indicates that the UIA will be tacking on a 1% interest rate on any accounts of overpayment after the March 29th date. I spoke with several individuals that were just becoming aware of this as of today!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

Thanks for the information. And Governor Snyder signed a Republican bill in June reducing the maximum number of weeks of benefits from 26 to 20 weeks. All other states have 26 weeks. As far as I know neither bill was reported in Detroit newspapers. Unfortunately the unemployed are forgotten. They don't show up for the daily fundraisers in Lansing.

kay321-123 8 months ago

Thanks for your response!

I have another question. Does it matter if the job is a 4 month job at 30 hours per week and considered "full-time"? It's considered a "terminal" position...

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

kay321, I'm not sure I know enough about your situation to answer your question. You said "I was told I could continue collecting benefits." Who said you could continue collecting benefits? Only the UIA can determine whether or not you are eligible for benefits, not your employer. Were your hours reduced to 30 from 40? If so, you may be eligible for a partial benefit. I suggest you apply, tell the truth and let the UIA determine whether you are elibible. If you get benefits, certify by calling MARVIN in accordance with instructions and report your earnings.

u2hoff 8 months ago

HI again Ralph,

I'm so nervous about a hearing for my case! I haven't received the court date in the mail yet, but it's truly making me sick:-( I almost sent out a letter requesting that I cancel the hearing due to my anxiety about this... I know I can get an advocate. Will they be helpful? I've never gone to court before and the thought of it is making me sick.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

Yes, you should get an advocate. Most of them are qualified, but some are much better than others. Contact me by phone when you get your Notice of Hearing, and I'll give you the names of competent advocates.

u2hoff 8 months ago

You are so AMAZING!!! I'm not from the Detroit area... Do you know advocates in the Kalamazoo- Grand Rapids area?

Have a wonderful day!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

Most of the advocates I know are in the Detroit area. Some do telephone hearings in Kalamazoo.

u2hoff 8 months ago

Okay:-)

I'll keep you posted...

u2hoff 8 months ago

Do you know how the UIA determines if the hearing is going to be a telephone hearing or a in person hearing at the court?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

In my experience telephone hearings may be requested by the employer or by the claimant, usually because of the travel distance to the hearing office. One party may participate by phone while the other participates in person. Or the claimant or employer advocate may participate by phone while the claimant and/or the employer participate in person. It's a matter of convenience. I much prefer in-person hearings. (I have a couple of names of advocates from the Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo area, but I would prefer to suggest them over the phone or by email.)

dotnet4hire 8 months ago

Hi Ralph:

I seem to remember from a long time ago that a person could quit a job (without cause) and still collect unemployment compensation as long as they immediately started another position without any break. Then after being laid off the second position they could collect against the first employer. Is this true? If so, are there any additional requirements if the first employer was a temp agency?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

Leaving a full-time job to accept a "permanent" full-time job and being subsequently laid off from the new job does not disqualify the claimant benefits. The only additional requirement for temp agency employees is that they must notify their agency within 5? days that their assignment has come to an end. This requirement trips up many claimants.

tommy 8 months ago

hey ralph, i have a problem, i took a week off of work for my grandmas funeral and i came back to work today and my boss sent me home because i forgot my funeral notice stating i attended the funeral its not an obituary with her picture on it but its like a form saying i attended from the funeral home and he's asking for a death certificate and all that, is that even necessary? i don't even know if i can get a hold of the certificate. and if i happen to get fired for this am i eligible to file for unemployment?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

To be on the safe side I recommend that you provide whatever proof of your attendance at your grandmother's funeral that you can get your hands on. Your boss is in the driver's seat if you are in Michigan because Michigan is an "at will employment state." Your employer can fire you for any reason or no reason. If you are fired and apply for unemployment compensation you will still have to prove that your absence was for reasonable cause, i.e., to attend your grandmother's funeral. Absence in order to attend your grandmother's funeral would not be considered misconduct disqualifying you from unemployment benefits under the unemployment statute.

tommy 8 months ago

thanks ralph, but i have the form from the funeral..i'm just wondering if he's willing to accept it and "misconduct disqualifying" can you clarify it i'm confused so does this mean i won't be eligible for unemployment?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

Tommy, if you are fired just for being absent from work to attend your grandfather's funeral, that alone would not disqualify you from unemployment benefits because that would not be considered absence without reasonable cause. This assumes you notified your employer in advance that you were going to be absent for a family funeral and that you returned to work within a reasonable time after the funeral. On the other hand, if you have a poor attendance record and have been warned about it and perhaps written up and you failed to notify someone in advance that you needed time off to attend a family funeral, that might be found to be misconduct under the statute, and you might be disqualified from receiving benefits.

dotnet4hire 8 months ago

Thanks Ralph for your prompt answer to my previous question. To follow up; What are the legal requirements (Michigan) for contacting the temp agency. If I quit a temp agency job for a different (non-temp agency) position, what are the requirements for notifying a temp agency that was not my last employer? Also, the temp agency has their won internal requirements that if I dont comply it could "jeopardize my ability to collect unemployment compensation". For example the temp agency states that former employee must contact by phone (weekly) the temp agency, but provides no phone number or contact person/dept. Does'nt state law trump corporate policy?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

Sec 29---(A)"That within 7 days after completing services for a client of the temporary help firm, the employee is under a duty to notify the temporary help firm of the completion of those services."

(B) "That a failure to provide the temporary help firm with notice of the employee's completion of services pursuant to sub-subparagraph (A)constitutes a voluntary quit that will affect the employee's eligibility for unemployment compensation."

My understanding is that you are only obligated to notify the temp agency through which you are working on the job that came to an end.

You should not be disqualified for leaving a temp agency assignment to accept a permanent non-temp agency job. However, to be on the safe side you should notify the temp agency through which you are working on the assignment you are quitting. Otherwise, the agency is likely to try to stop your benefits in the event your are laid off from the new "permanent" job.

Requirements in addition to the law would, in my opinion, be evaluated case-by-case based on their reasonableness. It doesn't strike me as reasonable for a temp agency to try to enforce a reporting requirement without informing employees in writing of a procedure for informing it when an assignment comes to an end.

Ally 8 months ago

My former employer was a franchisee. When he terminated his franchise contract, we were all terminated as well. The parent company offered to rehire us at minimum wage. That's one to three dollars less per hour than we had been making... for exactly the same positions on a "trial basis, " while we trained the new hires. Most people turned down the offer of reemployment, as it was insulting.

The former franchisee and/or the parent company contested every single one of our unemployment claims. They managed to win in a few cases. Most are still outstanding. Will anything happen to this rotten company?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

Seems to me that you should be eligible for benefits. The law doesn't provide for penalties against companies so long as the information they provide the unemployment agency and their testimony in administrative law judge hearings is truthful.

slava 8 months ago

Ralph, Hello. I'm waiting for my hearing. I called and they said they received my appeal to the redetermination on 8-14, and that there is no specific time frame before the next step and to just keep calling marvin and wait until I get something in the mail. I'm kind of concerned about the potential of it getting lost in the mail and missing my hearing. How long does it normally take before I should expect to see something do you think? I know it depends on how many people are filing for unemployment, but if you could give me an idea it would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

Probably anywhere between one and three months. (That's a guess. I haven't actually seen any statistics.) If your Notice of Hearing gets lost in the mail you will be entitled to another hearing. I'm sure it does happen but not very often. As you were instructed, keep calling MARVIN until your case is finally resolved.

Slava 8 months ago

Okay, that relieves a little anxiety. Thanks! Also, when I get a list of advocates will you know which ones are better than others (I live and worked in Holland)? Where do the hearings typically take place around this area?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

All of the advocates on the list have passed a certification test and have experience representing claimants before administrative law judges. You are free to talk to several advocates before signing up with one. It's important to contact and sign up with an advocate long enough for him or her to get a copy of the case file and work with you on an approach for the hearing.

Slava 8 months ago

Thanks again!

slava 8 months ago

Ralph, I just received my 'notice of telephone hearing'. I did not see a list of advocates, but there is a phone number to call. When I call do they typically read from a list of advocates and then I chose one at that point? Also, it says I have the right to appear in person, do you recomend that? Another question I have is that it says I can offer any papers or records relevant to the case, do you recomend providing my argument to the determination and redetermination? Please advise.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

The Unemployment Insurance Agency will send you a list of advocates with their telephone numbers and a brief description of their qualifications and experience. You can speak with one or more of the advocates on the list until you reach one that is available on the date and time of your hearing. Once you have found an advocate in whom you have confidence give him or her the case number (on the top of the first page of the list of advocates), your Social Security number, the Appeal number from the Notice of Hearing. The advocate will then sign on to your case and obtain a copy of the case file. When he or she has reviewed the case file they will discuss it with you and outline a plan for your hearing. Don't waste any time signing up with an advocate. He or she will need time to get a copy of the case file and prepare for your hearing. Good luck.

slava 8 months ago

Thanks! I guess at this point I have to wait for a list of advocates. How long does it usually take for it to arrive after you get the notice of telephone hearing? I hope not too long because my hearing is right around the corner (10-4).

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

It might speed things up if you have access to a fax machine. They might be able to fax the list to you rather than mail it. I'm not sure what their policy is. Usually they mail the list. Also, you need the case number which appears on the top of the first page of the list. Otherwise I could provide you with some names of advocates.

slava 8 months ago

I'll give them a call Monday and see if they can email it to me if it doesn't arrive by then. If not I might take you up on that offer (to be continued......). Thanks again.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

Slava, be sure and ask them for your Case Number. It appears on the top of the first page. You can't sign up an advocate without it.

Sleepless in the Burg 8 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

I have worked full time during the summer months (usually May- the first of September)for the past five years for an employer in Northern Michigan. The employer lays me off around the first part of September.

The terrible situation is this...last summer I anticipated I again would be laid off in early September, in July of 2011 while still employed temporary fulltime I decided I would look for a part-time job in addition to the full time summer employment. Thinking that it might be a good idea to secure employment for the months I have been laid off from my summer employer. I managed to find a part time job in retail in July...so you see I would work my full time job and go immediately to the part time job. Making my work days 14-16 hour days at least three days a week. Unfortunately, I found that working two jobs was more than I could handle along with being a mother and wife. I ended up resigning from the part time job(2 wk notice)..the company let me go that very day. I was employed for nearly four weeks in retail working part time when I resigned. I still was employed full time thru the beginning of September with the first employer.

I opened a new claim in September and didnt report the part time retail job as I quit. It didnt appear to me to report this...so that is where I honestly went wrong. I collected unemployment thru May of 2011 and again I returned to the temporary full time summer employer. In June I received notice from MESC that I owe nearly 8000.00, I cant begin to explain my state of shock. The notice mentioned that a credit of nearly 8000

.00 was due to the employer in which I only worked 4 weeks from July 2010-August 2010. I dont understand this at all....dont you have to work 2 quarters with an employer to earn unemployment benefits? I still maintained my full time job with the primary employer. Restitution at this point really blows my mind.

Warmest Regards,

Sleepless in the Burg

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

I'm not sure of the correct answer to your situation, and right now I don't have the time required to research the possible issues. I suggest you appeal the Unemployment Agency's determination or redetermination and request a hearing before an administrative law judge. You may request an advocate from the Unemployment Agency. It will be to your advantage to sign up for an advocate once your hearing before an administrative law judge is scheduled. Sorry I'm not able to be more helpful.

Sleepless in the Burg 8 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

Thus far I have protested twice and am waiting to hear the decision from the second protest. I'm very appreciative of your time and advice.

Warmest Regards,

Sleepless in the Burg

Krista In MI 8 months ago

Mr.Deeds

I read through your page and have not seen a situation such as mine so I bet this one is going to be a little bit tricky for you to answer but here goes...I was fired from my job on 08/23/2011 prior to this date I knew from my Hr rep I was going to be let go because of running out of leave time which was set on an intermittent basis and was to be used as needed for medical reasons and such,Well my Hr rep advised me to get the ball rolling with my unemployment claim because as you and I and the rest of America knows it takes forever to get anything done.I set up my claim on line and called in seconds after to let them know I was only getting the ball rolling so to speak,the rep made nice detailed notes on my account from what I understand and advised me not to make any calls until I was let go of.It just so happened that three weeks after the claim was filed I got the boot of course since I did not call in on my date the claim was closed out and all I had to do was reopen it (sounds good so far right well this is where it gets bad) a letter had been sent out as soon as I opened my claim the first time and of course since I was still employed they wrote back saying such but indicated I was on a LOA because at the time I filed the first time I was out so to speak but not on a LOA just intermittent time.So some time went by and I called to inquire about my claim status and the girl I spoke with got me to her supervisor because she didn't know how to answer my questions.After the supervisor reviewed my claim and seen my employer was not protesting and all my ducks were in a row my claim was paid on, then two weeks later which is today just before my next filing date I get a letter that states...

"This reconsideration is being done on the agency's own motion to correct this determination.You are currently on an approved LOA that you requested on xyz date.During this time you are considered employed and not eligible for benefits.You are ineligible from abc date until you no longer are employed with said company.MES ACT sec 48"

So I pick up the phone and call the governors office and get patched through to someone who was the rudest person I've ever in my life encountered, she didn't want to give me any other info besides to protest and I asked to be put in touch with someone who wanted to do their job so she hung up on me.So I call back and after 30 minutes on the phone with a different rep so got me to her manager because she did not know why this was happening on my claim, the manager sees the reason right away, it was because of my employers initial response.No other fact finding forms were sent out after I reopened my claim.Now please keep in mind when I reopened my claim it was opened with a different reason so in my understanding is it should have been handled as such.So that being said the UIA office dropped the ball in my eyes now why should they punish me for this and make me pay this back or take away my benefits? Also now the manager wants additional info about my situation such as why I did not return after my LOA and is almost trying to make this into my fault when I've already sent in the letter from my Doctor that shows where I tried to have my job title/duties changed because they exacerbate my condition, the form that indicates the intermittent time frame and also my availability form that was completed by my Doctor that says I am able to work full time.Also I explained that my employer was willing to keep me just as long as I did not have anymore intermittent time and because I had over 26 weeks left at the very least which with my condition would of been used my employer claimed I was unable to work.I did not hold anything back.I feel as though because they made the mistake and I caught it now they are going to play hard ball with me and my benefits and I don't know where to turn or what to do we are talking at the minimum 6 weeks for them to make a determination again and then I'm sure its going to a hearing and who knows how long that will take.Please any help you could give me would mean so much more than you will ever know I'm 26 Ive had a job since I was 15 and never once got any state aid or unemployment and now me and my daughter are about to lose our home and my credit is being demolished because I cant pay anything the only income Ive had since July was the two week benefit check that I now have to pay back with money I don't have.I know there are so many people with my same story so I'm not looking to be treated any different or trying to feed you a sob story I just need a point in the right direction or to even know if I have a chance and from what Ive seen on your page your an honest person who really tries to help people.Thank you for your time and sorry to waste so much of it but I wanted to give you all the facts.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

Krista, your case is unusual, and I'm not sure I can provide an answer. However, it appears to me that you should be eligible for benefits. You may want to go to one of the unemployment agency's Problem Resolution Offices where you can sit down with a live human being and explain your circumstances. I've heard that the unemployment agency assigns knowledgeable employees to the PROs. Here's a link which shows the locations of these offices. http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--78925--,

In the meantime, keep calling MARVIN in accordance with agency procedures and appeal the determinations, requesting a hearing before an administrative law judge.

Good luck.

Susan 8 months ago

Hope all is well Ralph!

My friend finally has his hearing date. My question to you is whether he has an argument.

He was disqualified for misconduct.

5 years ago he was hired to do "ABC" during the school year, then over the summer he would do "XYZ". Two totally different jobs. His contract clearly stated that. If the summer program did not exist, he would not be employed over the summer. (I use the word contract loosely as it was an agreement within the budget).

In April he was told that his "school year position" would be eliminated on June 19 but they wanted him to stay on over the summer. Then once the summer was complete, all employment would be dissolved.

Over the summer once the "school year position" was eliminated, he decided to open his own business and run a few of the "ABC" programs on his own while employed with the summer position.

NOTABLE information: 1. The ABC programs were never ran over the summer thus the programs never competed.

The employer terminated him immediately for misconduct.

Can he use the argument that since they were 2 entirely different jobs and the actual program/product that he ran had nothing to do with the summer program thus their was no misconduct on his behalf.

Please advise.

Thank you in advance,

Susan

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

Susan, I really can't provide an opinion on your friend's chances of being found eligible for benefits. The burden is on the employer to prove misconduct which is defined as "wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest."

So, intent to harm the employer would be one element of the employer's proof. Moreover, it doesn't appear to me that your friend's effort to open his own business actually harmed his employer. On the other hand, the judge could find that starting a business in competition with the employer is misconduct whether or not actual harm occurred. It would be significant if your friend's contract contained a "non-compete" clause although that probable wouldn't be essential to the employer's case.

Anyway, I hope he gets a favorable decision.

Stacey 8 months ago

Hi,

I'm in Michigan and collecting unemployement. Do I have to accept ANY position offered to me? What if when I'm called for an Interview, I tell them by last pay amount and they decline to proceed further with an interview, ie they can only offer about half of what I was making. Could I loose my benefits?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

You can lose your benefits if you decline a "suitable" job offer. Some of the elements used to determine suitability are--pay rate (how it compares with your previous job), location (not too far from where you live), how well the job matches your training, skills and previous jobs you have held. If the company you are interviewing doesn't proceed with an offer you should not lose your benefits.

One other warning: the longer you are drawing benefits the more you are expected to accept a job that doesn't not pay as well as your previous job.

Justin 8 months ago

Hello Ralph,

New to this so bare with me, my employer ended my employment due to misuse of company time by forgetting to punch out for lunch. Which was a violation of policy. Now on my exit interview I was Involuntary Terminated due to Misconduct With Coachings. I was also Eligible for Re-hire. Now when I filled for UIA, the agency was notified I was discharged for Theft. Now this is what I don't understand. I went on my lunch, purchased my meal, and went to the break room, the amount of that that passed was 3-4 mins tops, I then went back to punch for lunch. The next day my manager says you were caught on camera for eating on company time, I told them I merely forgot to punch out, but I did. Now I'm not sure what to do, my employer says I stole. I filed for a protest, I revieved a letter stating It was found that I was fired for a deliberate disregard of your employers interest. How can I fight this? Thank you

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

Some employers try to call these kinds of incidents "time theft." I recommend that you request a re-determination and, if it's unfavorable, request a hearing before an administrative law judge. Forgetting to punch out for lunch on one occasion does not amount to misconduct under the statute, in my opinion. You should be eligible for benefits unless you have been warned for failure to punch out for lunch on previous occasions or unless you have other significant disciplinary actions on your record. Good luck.

dotnet4hire 8 months ago

Ralph: I was trying to find out some information on the recent changes in Michigan (26 weeks down to 20 weeks). Do you know if the new law has an effective date where if someone files UA before the effective date they would be eligible for 26 weeks not 20?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 8 months ago

The reduction is effective January 1, 2012, according to this article.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-03-29-mic

Brian Joseph 7 months ago

Hi Ralph,

I worked as a business development manager (salesperson) for a company in Michigan over the last 20 months. On July 1st I was discharged from my position for failing to meet the sales requirments of the position. I was asked to sign a document saying I was being terminated under Michigan Right to Work and Failing to Meet Sales Requirments. Three months later I received an inquiry from the unemployment insurance agency saying that my former employer was disputing my claim because I was discharged for falsification. That was never mentioned when I was let go, and the individual who fired me said I would be eligible for unemployment compensation. Three sales people were fired that day and the employer has lied about all of the reasons for discharge. Will I still receive unemployment compensation during the appeal process? Now I am being asked to potential pay back over $4k! How can I prove that my employer is lying? THank you so much for your help!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

You should reply to the Agency's last determination, explaining briefly what happened. They will make a determination either in your favor in which case you will continue to receive benefits or against you in which case your benefits stop. You have 30 days to appeal the Agency's re-determination and request a hearing before an Administrative Law Judge. In the meantime you should continue to certify by calling MARVIN in accordance with UIA procedures. Your employer apparently was untruthful in its response to the Agency's questionnaire after you applied for benefits. Employers's can't decide eligibility issues. They just reply to the Agency's questionnaire as to the circumstances of the termination. Then, based on their reply and the information you provided on your application, the Agency determines eligibility. From what you said it sounds to me as if you should be eligible for benefits.

Brian Joseph 7 months ago

Thank you for your response Ralph, your knowledge and experience have been a great help to all the peopl here. I keep wondering to myself how common it is for an ex-employer to change the reason for seperation after the fact, in an effort to reduce unemployment insurance taxes on their part. Do you think the agency is well aware of this as a common practice? I hope you are doing exceptionaly well, thank you again for your work.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Most employers are truthful, but a significant number are not. They have a strong incentive to prevent their employees from collecting benefits against their account--the minimum tax rate is under one percent and the maximum is upwards of 14 percent, last time I checked.

slava 7 months ago

Ralph, okay I got set up with an advocate last Monday and my telephone hearing is tomorrow. She said she will call me as we close in on the hearing date to discuss the case and I haven't heard back from her yet. Should I be worried? Would I be being pushy if I called her back?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Slava, don't be bashful. Give her a call. I spoke with my last claimant quite a few times before the hearing.

slava 7 months ago

The hearing went well. Afterwards my attorney said she would be shocked if we lose. She said I would get the decision within a couple of weeks. I have direct deposit for my payments; if I did win, do you have any idea how long before my payments will go into my bank account? That one might be out of your expertise.....

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Not sure, but I think it would be within 30 days. I'm glad the hearing went well. Let me know when you get the decision.

liketoremainanonymous. 7 months ago

hi i have been drawing unemployment but i just left to go on a construction job a shutdown at a powerplant. well i had been hanging around friends that smoke marijuana i know bad decision but they've been friends i've known forever. well i failed my drug test. my question is. is this going to mess up my unemployment claim?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Yes, it will if you worked for the construction company and were released for not passing the drug test. When you apply for UC the agency will send a questionnaire to the construction company asking why you were fired. If the company tells the agency you were fired for failing the drug test, that might disqualify you from benefits. I would argue that it shouldn't disqualify you because there was no proof that you used benefits at work or reported under the influence of drugs. However, the rules are very tough on drug use or abuse. If you were never hired by the construction company the agency I assume the unemployment agency would not know why you weren't hired. ???

Justin 7 months ago

Hi Ralph,

I did what you told you and sent a Re-determination for my forgetting to punch for lunch. I told them I sat down approx. 3-5min and realized I forgot to punch out, I have no provided sufficient information to provide a warrant reversal. The determination is Herby affirmed.It is found that you were fired for a deliberate disregard is your employers interest. I'm not sure what to think of this, should I continue and get a law judge involved?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

I encourage you to appeal your case for a hearing before an administrative law judge.

Justin 7 months ago

Okay Ralph I did the Appeal, now waiting for a response. Have to say I'm a a little nervous, never did anything like this before.

liketoremainanonymous 7 months ago

even if i havnt ended my claim yet? i mean techically i havnt worked yet and the only problem is sunday when i file my weekly claim they are going to ask if i turned down a job or if i was discharged or fired. so you still think it will.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

From what you said it doesn't seem to me like you were fired or turned down an offer. You were never hired. I don't see why you have to say anything about the construction job situation. Maybe I don't fully understand your case. However, I'm not suggesting that you not answer MARVIN's questions truthfully. But I don't see why the subject needs to come up.

liketoremainanonymous 7 months ago

thats basically it. in my line of work you work for 6 to 7 weeks at a time maybe less then you get laid off. you draw unemployment till you go on another job. well i had been drawing untill i went on this one. hadnt gotten hired on yet. i was in the drug screening part and i failed from being around people smoking marijuana so thats as far as i got with this job. so sunday is my time to file for another week. so is it something i gotta report or is the company going to report it i'm actually drawing from wages from a previous job from this company.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Just answer the questions truthfully. You don't have to volunteer anything about being turned down. As I see it you weren't hired and you didn't turn down an offer.

liketoremainanonymous 7 months ago

thanks man you've been a big help.

dotnet4hire 7 months ago

I see in many of your answers you give information about refusing a "job offer". An interview is not a job offer. I have been on many interviews and was never offered a job. Does the UA consider refusal to accept a job interview the same thing as refusing to accept a job offer?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

No. But the agency does require that you "seek suitable employment." And, if you're receiving extended benefits the agency requires to submit "tangible evidence" of two job searches per week.

Steven P. 7 months ago

Hello Mr. Deeds!

I have read SO many of your cases. I am amazed that you are able to still get back to people on here. With that being said, I figured I'd ask you what your opinion is on a case for me. I worked at a restaurant for 7 years as a server, was recently (June of this year) promoted to shift leader allowing me to have access to a free employee meal. Then I requested that I be demoted (too stressful and no adherence to any type of structured management system was in place) back to a server. One night I helped do extra things because of how busy we were (cooking, making food, and serving my own tables). After this, a chef told me to take a leftover food item home (no problem usually) as a reward for helping out. The manager heard of this but then asked me why I was taking the food home, he said, "ok, just making sure, you could get in trouble if you don't ask." I told him okay, and explained that it was given to me and I would never "steal" it. He agreed with me and told me to go ahead and have a great night. I did that and the next day I returned to work and was sent hom and told not to come in the next day as they had to investigate. Three days later they phoned me and said that I could return the following week (meaning a 3 day suspension in a way) The next day they called and told me I could NOT come back.

I filed for unemployement for taking food home even though the manager on that shift allowed me to take it home as it was given to me from the chef. Also, I would like to add that any food that is leftover is given to whoever wants to eat it at any point in time in any given situation and at frequent intervals. Therefore, firing me for that wasn't right as it is not enforced equally across the board.

I recieved unemployment as the first decision claimed that my company's dispute did not have substantial evidence of "theft."

This weekend I got a "redetermination" asking me to pay back for UI Overpayment.

I have read so many on here and I want to go see an ALJ person, but what do you think of what I have said so far?

(I am trying to keep it breif, but if you want to hear more, at your request I will provide it, I just don't want to be annoying if you're busy.)

Thanks if you're able to answer your opinion!

:)

~Steven P.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

StevenP, from what you said, it doesn't sound to me like your action amounted to misconduct. You were entitled to rely on the manager's permission to take the food home. I would surely appeal for a hearing before an ALJ. It would be to your advantage to sign up an advocate to assist you in the hearing. In the meantime keep certifying with MARVIN in accordance with agency procedures. If you think of it let us know how you make out. Good luck!

Steven P. 7 months ago

Thank you so much for your advice and input sir! I shall let everyone know. I am sending my letter of appeal tomorrow. I feel so comfortable after reading everything on here. Your services are much appreciated and this website is as well.

Steven P.

K. Smith 7 months ago

Hi Mr. Deeds,

I would like to know if I am eligible to file for unemployment if I quit my job for valid reasons. 1st, my employer has been having me charge customer credit cards (including gov't) even though we don't have the funds to purchase the products immediately - we have some customers that were charged a month ago and are still waiting for products. We have a contract with the government that states we are not allowed to charge cards until the products are shipped. The funds are being used to fund operations and older orders (robbing Peter to pay Paul). 2nd, he has reduce hours for all employees from 80 to 25 hrs per week in order to make payroll. I was hired and have a degree as an accountant - these actions are totally unethical and I can no longer be a part of essentially robbing customers.

Please let me know if I have grounds to file for unemployment. I have been looking for work but it has been difficult since I don't have any certification, but I would like to quit as soon as possible.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

The burden of showing good cause for quitting attributable to the employer is up to the claimant. Case law says that absent serious cause attributable to the employer, a reasonable person will find another job before quitting the one he has. The burden for establishing "reasonable cause attributable to the employer" is pretty high, i.e., the reasons which are clearly good cause are being required to do something unsafe, immoral or dishonest, or experiencing a significant reduction in earnings or benefits. Secondly, to be eligible claimants are in most cases required to make their complaint known to the appropriate person in the company and give the employer an opportunity to address and correct the issue. Your case may be in a gray area although it sounds a bit like a ponzi scheme. I think you might have to show more than a delay in filling the customers' orders. I can't predict where you would end up in a hearing before an administrative law judge. You would be expected to offer proof of what the employer is requiring you to do. Moreover, the judge's decision, if the employer's testimony denies what you are claiming, the judge's decision might well depend on whether he finds you or the employer witnesses more credible. Employers are not always truthful in their testimony in ALJ hearings.

TallyJan997 7 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

If I work a seasonal fulltime job and decide to work an additional part time job, wondering if I quit the part time job after 2-4 weeks and still had the full time seasonal employment would I still be eligible for unemployment benefits? I did not get laid off for another 3 weeks after I quit the part time job.

Tally

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Tally, that's an interesting question. I'm not sure of the answer, but I think you would be eligible. However, the question might arise why would you quit your part time job when you were about to be laid off from your seasonal full-time job. If you continued your part-time job you might still be eligible for a reduced benefit. You may want to do a bit of research here--http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

/Table%20of%20Contents.htm (I don't have time today.)

Beretta_gal 7 months ago

Hi Ralph, I have a question I'm hoping you can help me with.....I have been collecting unemployment for about 2 and a half years now and have NEVER had any issues with the UIA, about 2-3 weeks ago, I recieved a letter in the mail from the UIA stating that one of my employers is claiming i'm OVER reporting my wages to MARVIN...not really understanding what that meant,I called the Unemployment office for info reguarding this letter. She told me what it was saying is that one of my employers is claiming that when i'm calling MARVIN, i'm reporting MORE income than what they are paying me. I told the lady that this would be true as I have 2 part time jobs so when i'm making my bi-weekly call to MARVIN i'm claiming wages from BOTH jobs. She then told me that is the right thing to do and to write that on the back of the form and send it back. So that's what I did and sent it back the very next day. Now when I called to find out something about this, they said they recieved the paper but are now conducting an investigation and re-determination and could take 6 weeks....first off the employer is only going back on the dates week ending Jan 8th 2011 to Apr. 30th 2011. So my question is: Why is my employer doing this and only for those dates? and what does the UIA have to investigate?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

I have no idea what's on your employer's mind. As long as you have brrn accurate in your reports to Marvin you should have nothing to worry about. The unemployment agency is taking longer to do its job because of the huge number of claims.

Beretta_gal 7 months ago

Fast reply...Thanks!

I just thought the UIA was taking longer because maybe they are investigating from day 1 when I started claiming??? or are they only doing the dates that my employer is contesting? Seems like they would have kept their mouths shut because then it was less they had to pay!!!!!.....I just thought that was weird that my employer said this because I have been claiming more than what they pay me on every call to MARVIN and they are just bringing it up this year...now? I wonder if they were audited?

Lori 7 months ago

Hello,

I was fired from my job during my probation period. I was given a letter that stated just that, "Termination within probation period". I filed for unemployment but am worried I will get denied benefits for being fired. The only other verbal information the employer gave me was "Did not meet expectations".

Do you know if I will receive unemployment benefits based on this information?

Thank you

slava 7 months ago

Ralph, I received the decision from my hearing today. The re-determination has been reversed, and I am qualified to receive unemployment benefits. Thanks again for your help! Take care.....

Bella 7 months ago

Ralph, I was working for a company (#1) for over 11 years that was going bankrupt. As with the rest of the employees I found another job (#2) and voluntarily left the company. The job I went to, was very disappointing, no training and the manager was horrible. I left after about a month later. Then, I started working for a company (#3) as a contractor. Once the assignment was finished, I was out of work for a short time and filed for unemployment. I filed including all 3 employers and reasons for leaving. Out of the 3 employers, I was awarded from the one with the longest tenure, even though I gave the reason of leaving voluntarily. After 3 weeks of unemployment, I discontinued receiving funds because I started working again. However, I received a letter stating that I said I was laid off from the first employer. I responded with evidence, showing my answers that was in my UIA account. Then another letter was sent to pay restitution for the 3 weeks. The letter included 29(1)A Voluntary leaving, Credit to Employer (20(A) and Improper Payments 62(A). Why did they award me in the first place when I specifically stated this from the beginning? This is the first time I've file for unemployment. Do I have good reason to protest or appeal?

Freddy 7 months ago

Mr.Deeds Can you email me a list of metro Detroit Advocates. pacefred@msu.edu

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Lori, "termination during probationary period" does not amount to misconduct under the statute. The burden is on the employer to prove "wanton (serious) or willful (intentional) disregard of the employer's interest. Whether you are eligible will depend on whether your employer furnishes detailed information to the agency substantiating misconduct.

Slava, thanks for letting us know that you got a favorable decision. Good luck.

Freddie, you will have to get a list of advocates from the UIA. Sorry.

Bella, seems to me you should be eligible although your case is complicated. I recommend you appeal and if you are still unemployed keep calling MARVIN in accordance with Agency procedures,

Beretta_gal 7 months ago

Fast reply...Thanks!

I just thought the UIA was taking longer because maybe they are investigating from day 1 when I started claiming??? or are they only doing the dates that my employer is contesting? Seems like they would have kept their mouths shut because then it was less they had to pay!!!!!.....I just thought that was weird that my employer said this because I have been claiming more than what they pay me on every call to MARVIN and they are just bringing it up this year...now? I wonder if they were audited?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

I've never encountered a case like yours and I don't have an answer for you. If you think of it let us know the outcome.

Jay_Steel 7 months ago

I've worked for the same company for almost 5 years. Every now and then, work gets slow, and people get laid off. Sometimes its just for a couple weeks, maybe 2 months. We've never been informed to go down to Michigan Works, to fill out their questionaires, because we've always been given a date when we'll be returning to work.

Our employeer has never contested our unemployment, but recently UIA has been calling those of us whom have been recieving benefits for awhile, stating that because we're not registered with Michigan Works, we'll have to pay back the benefits we've received.

Is this standard practice of UIA?

Jay_Steel 7 months ago

Keep in mind, the following, is listed on the UIA website;

You must register for work if you do not expect to return to work within 120 days from your last day of work. If you are instructed to register for work, the "Notice to Register for Work" page will be provided for you to print and present to the Michigan Works Agency in person, to verify your registration.

----

I had a return to work date.

Sleepless in the Burg 7 months ago

Wondering what constitutes "Register", would this be having youre resume current on the Michigan Works Talent Bank website or simply having them stamp a pc of paper with the date you were in their branch? Or maybe both?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Jay,

The Agency's action makes no sense to me. You might find it helpful to go to one of the Agency's "Problem Resolution Offices" which are staffed by knowledgeable people with whom you can discuss your problem face-to-face. I've heard from several claimants who say that the PRO people are quite helpful.

PRO Locations:

*

Detroit - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-385, Detroit, MI 48202

*

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

*

Grand Rapids - 3391 Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

*

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

*

Mt. Clemens (temporary) - Macomb County DHS, 21885 Dunham Rd., Suite 7, Clinton Twp., MI 48036

*

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

*

Muskegon (temporary) - Muskegon County DHS, 2700 Baker St., Muskegon Heights, MI 49444

*

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Sleepless, I'm not sure, but you should find out and comply with what the Agency tells you to do. See comment immediately above which provides the location of the Agency's Problem Resolution Offices. It might worthwhile for you to go to one of them and discuss your issues face-to-face with a real live person.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Sleepless, I'm pretty sure "register" refers to signing up with Michigan Works.

Mark 7 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

Sir, I am unemployed, drawing benefits. However, I took a temp job at a temp agency that is expected to last 4 weeks total. I am able to work over 40 hours a week. How will this affect my claim? Will I be removed from unemployment, or will I just not receive any benefits during the weeks I am working? In other words, once my temp job expires, can I start to collect again? My weekly wages from the Temp job will exceed by weekly benefit by about twice the amount of the benefit.

Thanks

Mark

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

You should be eligible for benefits when your temp job ends. Make sure that you report accurately to MARVIN on your earnings. And very important, make sure you notify your temp agency when the job ends (within 5 days, if memory serves). Otherwise you will be considered a quit and ineligible for benefits. This reporting to the temp agencies trips when an assignment ends trips up a lot of people who are unaware of the notification requirement and assume that the agency is aware their assignment has ended.

agapegeart 7 months ago

Hi Ralph

The saga continues. I received the notice of redetermination of a determination and I'm still being found inelligible for unemployment benefits and they cited Sections 46(A) and 50. It's still being said that I was an independent contractor and not an employee of the company.

To summarize, you stated that the controlling case in my situation is Socher v Allegan Gen'l. Hospital and had to do with the economic reality test, given that I worked for the company for almost 13 years, was paid houly/bi-weekly, provided none of my own equipment or supplies, didn't have time to work for anyone else and didn't, etc.

Given all this I don't understand how sections 46 (A) and 50 apply to me. I did review them and yeah...it's greek to me.

I intend to appeal this in writing as instructed. Any words of advice as to what to state in my letter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Agapeheart

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

All you have to say is that you disagree with the redetermination and that you are requesting a hearing before an administrative law judge. You can say more if you wish, but the ALJ hearings are de novo which means based on first hand evidence presented at the hearing. When you get a "Notice of Hearing" with a date and time of a hearing you will receive a list of advocates from the unemployment agency. You should sign up an advocate and he or she will help you prepare for the hearing and represent you at the hearing, assisting you to present your case in a concise convincing fashion.

Tiffany H. 7 months ago

Hi. Ralph. I recently brought up some insurance concerns to my company. and the following week, after being with them for over 3 years I was asked to submit a random drug test(only hourly employee asked to do so, only the other mgr. was given test as well). It took me 2 and a half hours total (trip, clinic wait and visit, testing, and waiting on lab tech to write down findings) after which I returned to work and was written up 2 hrs later for an incident from 4 days earlier of no similar nature. Well I passed the drug test, lab tech had no issues to report, no tampering, perfect temp., and timely. came back to work the following day for my normal shift. I was told that I was suspended based on an anonymous phone call and I should go take another test (also labeled random, not even 24 hrs from the 1st test, only employee asked.) This was @ 3:45 and the clinic closes at 4. Seems like they were trying to give me an impossible task that was even legal. I called corp and they apologized and told me that having to take that test back was not neccessary, and that they would call and let them know that I wouldn't be. The following day I recieved a phone call to call them. They set a date for the following day to discuss my termination based on the follow up of a phone call(which they hinted was from a fellow co-worker that observed another employee talking on her cell phone to me asking me if everything was ok the follwing morning and how everything went. This employee the day of my test was 4 hrs away at a doctors and let me vent to her how upset I was about the whole thing.) How this constituted me being fired was was so ridiculous that I was not even bothered more less relieved when they told me after setting an 8:30 am time, which I would not be able to make so I asked if 4pm was ok they called back 10 mintues later and said let's just do this now ...on the phone. I was read the Seperation Notice only which stated Broke Company Policy. I have filed and wonder do I need to possibly submit my negative test results as well as a clear look that everything was a ok with the lab tech and nurses or will it be obviuos to them when they take a look that there has to be proof of such an offense not hearsay. Personally I feel as thought my character and unemployment were being torn down bc they now thought of me as a whistleblower...please help

Tiffany H. 7 months ago

...basically they didn't want me to get unemployment insurance as well as trying to make me look bad. Sorry for the typos*

Tiffany H. 7 months ago

The intial insurance concerns I brought up was not being told when enrollent time for dental came in...

Tiffan H. 7 months ago

They have not yet looked at the claim that will happen in 4 days. But I'm curious as to how low my job will go and since they put no explanation, simply "Broke Company Policy" on the notice. Also since they never told me what I was actually fired for. Just wondering what they will use as the explanation and should I go ahead and submit simple proof of me doing everything they asked and the negative test results as well as the 2nd test labeled random dated for less than 24 hrs later. It's almost Christmas and I don't wanna have to appeal ;o(

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Tiffany, the burden is on your former employer to provide the agency with information explaining why you were fired. "Broke company policy" won't get it. From what you said, I see no indication that anything you did amounted to misconduct. If the agency determines you are ineligible for benefits based on information furnished by your employer I recommend that you explain briefly what happened,i.e., that for some reason unknown to you, you were required to take a drug test which you passed. And you may send a copy of the lab results along with your brief statement. Then the agency will make a re-determination based on your statement and whatever your employer told them. If that is not in your favor you should request a hearing before an administrative law judge. In that hearing the onus will be on your former employer to prove misconduct on your part using first-hand, non-hearsay evidence. Good luck. (If you think of it let us know how your situation turns out.)

Susan 7 months ago

Hi Mr. Deeds,

Just wanted to update you on my friends case. He went to court with an advocate and a witness. The employer did not have an advocate. The burden of proof was on the employer ... they submitted no evidence ... needless to say with in 48 hours my friend had a letter from the AJ over ruling his denial and is now waiting on his check.

My advise to all EX-EMPLOYEES who are terminated and then denied for misconduct is to get an advocate, supply documentation, and witnesses. It is not a threaten place, formal but not like you see on tv. And, the judge just wants the facts and no drama.

Thank you again Mr. Deeds

Susan

Susan 7 months ago

One more question. How does unemployment work if you go to college part time and still seek employment? I've heard mix responses.

Thanks

Susan

Tiffany 7 months ago

Tiffany 1 minute ago

Hi Ralph,

i received a notice to hear my appeal few days ago. Originally, i filed the appeal against the agency redetermination ( claimant did not report as directed and is ineligible from 00/00/00 to 00/00/00 Sec. 28 (1) (A), but in letter they wrote Sec 28(1) (A) and Sec 62 and Sec 20 (A). what is that mean ? are these new issues that the agency have added or what ?

Thanks.

Tiffany H. 7 months ago

Thank you soo much! And FYI that is a different Tiffany speaking about an appeal right above me. The agency will make the determination on Monday. I will let you know how it goes... :o)

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Susan, going full-time to college complicates your eligibility somewhat. My understanding is that you can continue to receive benefits so long as you can certify that you are unemployed, seeking work and willing and able to adjust your course schedule in the event you receive a suitable offer of work. You may receive a bit of extra scrutiny from the unemployment agency.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

Tiffany, Are you sure the Notice of Hearing mentioned Section 28(1)(a)? That section applies only to benefits established before October 1, 2000. It provides that individuals are eligible who have "registered for work at and thereafter has continued to report at an employment office in accordance with such rules as the commission may prescribe and is seeking work." The reporting requirement may be waived if the layoff is definite for no more than 45 days.

Section 62 Refers to the recovery of improperly paid benefits. It defines the methods of repayment of improperly paid benefits and it provides that "except in a case of an intentional false statement, misrepresentation, or concealment of material information, the commission MAY waive recovery of an improperly paid benefit if the payment was not the fault of the individual and if repayment would be contrary to equity and good conscience."

Section 20(a) provides that "Benefits paid to an individual as a result of an employer's failure to provide the unemployment agency with separation, employment, and wage data as required by Section 32 shall be considered as benefits properly paid to the extent that the benefits are chargeable to the noncomplying employer."

Tiffany 7 months ago

i protested non payment of few weeks. They said you did not report as directed. The issue is that i did not report as directed. When i received the appeal number, they added two other issues (Sec 62 and Sect 20 a. Do i disregard these two issues ? are these issues cited by error ? thanks.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

If you lose the case before the judge Sec. 62 will cover possible restitution of improperly paid benefits.

Sec. 20a could be helpful if your employer didn't respond timely to the questions from the unemployment agency about the reasons for your separation.

Those sections were not cited in error. They could apply to your case.

Tiffany 7 months ago

First, i want to thank you for getting back to me promptly. Second, i said i certified and they said i did not for few weeks. That is the issue we are disputing. does it make sense for UIA to add another two issues such as sec 62 and sec 20 a . This is my point.

Thank you again

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 7 months ago

They added those issues "just in case." As I said above, the Sec.20 (a) may help you if the employer didn't respond in accordance with the agency's procedures. And Sec. 62 is a pro forma entry that they put on most Notices of Hearing. That could help you also if you received incorrect information from the unemployment agency. Your job will be to convince the judge that you did call MARVIN or otherwise report in accordance with agency procedures. Or that you had a good reason for not doing so.

Tiffany 7 months ago

Thank you very much.

dotnet4hire 7 months ago

Ralph:

I quit my job with a temp agency (had less than 2 months remaining on the contract) and immediately went to work on a temporary 1099 contract which will end next week. Should I be able to collect unemployment comp (from the temp agency) seeing that I started another job the next business day? On the UA forms it always ask for the "Employer" info. For the 1099 entry, should I put my dba as the employer seeing that I was self-employed or should I put my customer? I'd rather not have my customer be bothered with UA questions seeing that I was not their employee? I do realize that I cannot collect on the 1099 contract, but I do need to put that I started the 1099 job immediately after the temp agency job that I quit.

Sam 7 months ago

Hi Ralph,

If somebody went out of the country for a month or two but 1. was able and available for work

2. tried to certify but the computer returned a statement "ur certification is accepted. if ur eligibe and qualified, ur payment will be issued

3. on another occasion, the person tried to certify but received " you can not certify until a later date."

Can he or she collect for these weeks ?

Thanks.

S.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

Sam, I'm unable to answer your questions without knowing more about the circumstances involved:

1. I suppose you could be looking for a job out of the country and/or continue looking via the Internet while you were out of the country and you could be prepared to return on short notice if you received an offer or opportunity to interview for a suitable job.

2. The message apparently means exactly what it says.

3. I'm guessing that the individual's application hasn't been processed and approved for benefits. Applicants must certify as required in order to be eligible for benefits for any week.

Sorry I'm not able to provide better answers. Good luck.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

Dotnet4hire, you may not be eligible. The "leaving to accept" exception for quitting applies only to full time permanent employment. My guess is that the first temp agency will object to your eligibility on the basis that you left voluntarily without good cause attributable to your employer. Any time you quit the burden is on you to show that you had a good cause for quitting attributable to your employer or that you left to accept a permanent, full-time job. (Michigan)

Sarah Naeem 6 months ago

The common law of employment is ultimately a system of rules developed to protect the economic interests of employers?

DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT? IF YES THEN WHY? AND IF NOT THEN WHY?

I AM TALKING IN REGARDS TO CANADIAN COMMON LAW.

THANKS A LOT!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

I live in Michigan and am not familiar with Canadian common law. The unemployment compensation eligibility rules and court cases tend to favor Michigan employers. And our current governor Rick Snyder, a millionaire businessman, has made additional changes that favor employers: 1. Reduced the maximum number of regular benefits from 26 to 20 weeks. All other states have a 26-week maximum. 2. Abolished the state appeals board and re-constituted it in a combined agency with workers compensation appeals, appointing new members who are sympathetic to employers. 3. Began to charge 1% per month interest on benefits paid in error where restitution has been ordered.

Sleepless In the Burg 6 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

I finally have a hearing date for this week and have requested to appear in person rather than over the phone.

Thought that it might be appropriate to thank you.

Warmest Regards,

Sleepless in the Burg

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out if you think of it.

Steven P. 6 months ago

Hi again Mr Deeds!

I posted on here 3 weeks ago, I applied for a hearing with a ALJ and received a hearing date in the mail as well as a list of advocates. Then the next day, I received a letter that is something I can't figure out. It is a "Notice of Apllication for Removal or Transfer and Order Staying Proceedings." If it's important, it goes on to say "A party to the above captioned proceeding pending before the referee has filed an application for removal or transfer pursuant to R 421.1309 (Rule 309). The rule requires a stay of all proceedings during the pendency of the application. Pursuant to Rule 309, the Office of Referee Appeals and the Referee assigned to this case are hereby ordered to suspend further proceedings. After further review, the Commission will then issue a further order to either grant, show cause, or deny the petition to remove. The office of Referee Appeals shall forthwith deliver the file to Michigan Compensation Appellate Commission. The entire matter is hereby stayed until further notice."

What does all of that mean? I don't understand it and tried to go over it a few times and look different parts of it up on google, but I'm not getting anywhere. My hearing was supposed to be 2 days from now...so can you explain and advise me please.

I would appreciate your help again sir!

Steven P.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

"The entire matter is hereby stayed until further notice."

This means your hearing has been postponed at the request of your former employer. Stayed=postponed.

Your hearing will be re-scheduled, probably in two or three weeks. You will receive another "Notice of Hearing." In the meantime keep calling MARVIN.

Steven P. 6 months ago

Thank you, they make it so hard to understand sometimes lol. I appreciate your reply. Is there any recommendation on what type of advocate is better to use in these hearings--such as someone who used to work for the UIA, someone who used to be an ALJ, or someone in a private practice? Just wondering--if you can't stay, it's okay.

Steven P.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

Sorry, I don't have a good answer for that. All of the advocates have passed the Advocacy Program's test to be certified. And most will do a competent job. However, some are better than others. It's important to engage an advocate far enough in advance for him or her to have time to sign on as your advocate and get a copy of the case file, review it and discuss it with you. Ideally, the advocate will have successfully represented others before the administrative law judge assigned to your case and have some credibility with him or her. You could inquire of the advocate whether he has appeared before the judge assigned to your case and how successful he has been.

Slava 6 months ago

Hey Ralph, I have a couple more questions for you if you don't mind. The last I knew unemployment benefits could be collected up to 99 weeks, and I recently heard that now they can only be collected for 20 weeks. Is that correct? Also, I'm considering moving to Colorado to hopefully find better job opportunites (among other things), would I still be able to collect unemployment if I did that? What do I need to do so that I would still be able to collect?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

Slava, several months ago Governor Snyder signed a bill reducing the number of weeks of eligibility for REGULAR unemployment benefits from 26 to 20 weeks, effective January 1, 2012.. (All other states have 26 weeks.) I don't believe this will affect "extended benefits" which are provided by the Federal government in states like Michigan with high unemployment. I'll do some checking on the rules for eligible Michigan residents who move out of state and get back with you.

Slava 6 months ago

Thanks. I appreciate it!!!

shar 6 months ago

Can I still file unemployment if I am in a work release program for the jail system or do I have to wait until I am completely out of jail?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

Shar, I think so but I'm not sure. I'll do a little research and try to get back with you later today.

shar 6 months ago

Okay thank you so much!

agapegeart 6 months ago

Hey Ralph,

Is there an advocate for a hearing before an ALJ that you would recommend over another in re claimant missclassification?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

Agapeheart, some are better than others. But I can't make recommendations on line. If you give me a call or give me your email address and the hearing office location I might be able to help you.

agapegeart 6 months ago

Thanks Ralph I REALLY appreciate it. Email address is emnowlin@att.net and the office location is in Southfield...25660 W 8 mile Rd. Can't find any contact info for you on this site or I'd call you for sure. OBTW hearing is scheduled for 11/17. Thanks so much for your help.

Judith 6 months ago

My brother lives in Michigan and is a truck driver with an excellent record. He was in the hospital for a heart issue and is facing a pacemaker. His employer is cutting him loose. Can he draw unemployment for medical reasons beyond his control?

Toby G. 6 months ago

I worked for a MOm&Pop type employment, and was off due to an at home accident. I kept in touch with them trough-out this time, only to be told when I asked about my job , "Did you really think we would take you back?" I went months with them hem-hawing about my job, and stringing me along( they later told me things were too slow for me to come back- they always had excuses). I finally filed for unemployment, and when they found out they were mad that I did so, and are now calling me at home- which I'm sure is to now offer me some work hours, as I was told by the owner before hand that thy didn't want me to claim unemployment ( they have another one on it already). I understand I have to accept this offer- but what is to prevent them from letting me go down the line, and having to start the unemployment process all over again? Needless to say there are bad feelings here all the way around, and a lack of trust on my part. I want work but not back with them- it would be so stressful.

Any advice here would be appreciated, Tks!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

Judith, I believe he will be eligible once he has recovered and is available and seeking employment.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

Tilly/TobyG, I can't think of anything you can do to prevent them from laying you off if you accept the offer to return to work. If they do that you should be eligible for benefits. But you will have to apply again and follow the unemployment agency's procedures.

Judith 6 months ago

Mr. Deeds - thank you. I live in Texas so things are a little different. He has no insurance and now no income. I'm trying to help him in any way I can. It seems like Family Medical Leave Act should at least apply and allow him to go back to work at the same company, but it seems they don't want to give him time to even heal.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

Judith, I have had little or no experience with the Family Medical Leave Act. I agree that your brother should be entitled to a leave of absence under the Family Medical Leave Act. That should be almost automatic at any responsible employer. I'm not sure where he should go to file a complaint. As I said, once he is able to work he should be eligible for unemployment benefits.

slava 6 months ago

hi Ralph. Have you had any luck finding out about this: "I'll do some checking on the rules for eligible Michigan residents who move out of state and get back with you."

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

An eligible Michigan resident who moves out of state may continue to be eligible if he or she is "genuinely attached to the labor market in his new locality." Attachment to the labor market can be shown by job search evidence and by registering for work with the appropriate state employment office in his new locality.

Bingham v. American Screw Products Co. 398 Mich 546 (1976)

In this case the claimant moved to Kentucky and after moving he received an offer from his former employer in Michigan. He declined the offer and was found to be eligible because "to hold otherwise would restrict an unemployed person's right of freedom of movement to seek a job where it is best for him."

Dave 6 months ago

With regard to form 1680, what does, "I have satisfactorily pursued the approved training or courses" mean? What does failure or withdrawal from some or all approved classes mean for liability to the terms of the Waiver of Eligibility Requirements agreement?

Also, if EB runs out on a date that is earlier than the failure or withdrawal from classes, is there any liability to repay benefit amounts prior to the date of withdrawal or failure?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

1. I'm not sure what the effect of failure or withdrawal is for sure, but I suspect it would affect your eligibility.

2. If you withdraw from a class after your benefits run out I don't think there would be any liability to make restitution for benefits.

You may be well advised to check this with a representative of the agency at one of the Problem Resolution Offices. (There is a link above listing the locations of all these offices. The people there are usually quite helpful from what I've heard.)

Also, the people at Michigan Works could probably provide you with a reliable answer.

Dan 6 months ago

I suffered an injury at work and have been on workman's comp most of the year. I will be returning to work but the work season will probably be over in about a month and I will probably be unemployed for about 2 months. If I am laid off does the workman's comp pay count towards being eligible for unemployment benefits?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

I don't think so but I was not able to find a provision of the statute or court decision bearing on this issue.

In Section 44(1) of the statute which defines remuneration subject to unemployment insurance tax does not include worker's compensation. That is, employers are not required to pay unemployment compensation taxes on worker's compensation payments. Therefore, I do not believe these payments count towards being eligible for unemployment benefits (in Michigan). You may be able to find out for sure by checking with the Unemployment Insurance Agency.

Mr. Anthony 6 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

This is a great thing you are doing for the less informed and being a volunteer tax preparer I applaud your service.

My personal question is: I am currently running out of my last EUC Tier and into EB. I have been seeking work and actually have been "hired" for tax season as a tax specialist intern which is seasonal lasting from Jan 1st through April 15th. I estimate that as of Jan 1st I will have roughly 15 weeks of EB (If congress passes new legislation) left to claim. My internship is paid and so I spoke with a Unemployment Agent about how to notify MARVIN and how to proceed. I was told that I should just stop contacting MARVIN as of my first day of work and then when tax season ends I can just pick back up claiming on those remaining 15 weeks without any paperwork. I am still actively job seeking because I would like a full-time position in my area. My question is, does it work that simple that I just stop verifying with MARVIN and then just pick back up when the season ends? And would I have to answer ay questions differently after the season ends about having worked? Last question is I believe my benefit year ends in April so would I have to file a new claim because of that?

Thank you again and I appreciate your advice.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

I'm not sure, but the advice from the UIA rep sounds correct to me. Sorry I'm not able to be more definite. I haven't encountered that situation. Good luck.

susan 6 months ago

Recently, I went to the ALJ hearing and won the case.

What recourse can my former employer take? I understand they can do the following: Nothing, request a rehearing, or appeal to the Michigan Employment

Security Board of Review.

Can you explain the rehearing process? Are they allowed to submit new evidence? Are they automatically given a rehearing?

If you can, please shed some light on how this works.

Thanks

Susan

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

The ALJ may hold a hearing to determine whether, in his discretion, a re-hearing is justified. Newly discovered material facts or evidence which was not available through no fault of your employer, at the time of the original hearing may be presented.

Usually employers don't bother with re-hearings because the odds of getting the judge to reverse himself are small. Instead they simply appeal to the Board of Review in Lansing which will render a decision based on the transcript of the ALJ hearing and the case record.

Susan 6 months ago

Thank you.

If there is new evidence, how do I become informed of it? Is that what the hearing to determine whether there should be a re-hearing is all about. How does someone determine if there is a hearing to determine whether a re-hearing is appropriate?

Thanks for your help. Susan

slava 6 months ago

Thanks again Ralph!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

My understanding is that whether there is a re-hearing is up to the discretion of the administrative law judge. You will learn of any new evidence at the hearing to decide whether a re-hearing is appropriate, and you will have an opportunity to object.

Kellie 6 months ago

Please help im confused,ok I had my phone interview last week,and when i checked my check status online for the three weeks prior i filed it went from HD(pending investigation) to DQ which stated on the Nevada website meant DQ Week not eligible because a disqualification of benefits has been issued.

So does this mean I'm totally disqualified and will never receive IU? or does it mean temporarily, the internet says some are temporarily and you have to wait a few weeks, and some say forever. What do you think?

Can it be because I got 6 hours of vacation pay from my old job and my last time slip i faxed to them said holiday pay?

Please Help !!!

Mr. Deeds 6 months ago

You rock, thanks, for your help b/c unemployment never answers their phones. I don't have a medical doctor's note b/c you don't need one unless you call in 3 days consecutively and i had three seperate occasions. However I am seen by a psychiatrist for social anxiety and depression, so when I'm physically sick they usually go hand in hand, can I bring my medical records to appeal? Would mental illness be "just cause."

Thanks ALOT :)

Mr. Deeds wanted to update you on my status claim 6 months ago

I can't get through on the phones here always busy so I e-mailed them and here was there response

body

Dear Claimant,

You will receive your Determination letters soon, they were mailed 11/22.

Generally if it shows DQ, then you are disqualified, you must wait to receive the letters before you can file an appeal by writing a letter and faxing it in as instructed on page two.

The Internet Help Desk cannot help you with this issue.

Unfortunately the only way to inquire on your issue is to call in to speak with a claims examiner at the telephone claim center at:

Northern Nevada

(775) 684-0350 Select Option 3

Southern Nevada

(702) 486-0350 Select Option 3

Long Distance

(888) 890-8211 Select Option 3

Do not use REDIAL as it will take you back to the busy signal again each time.

The lines are experiencing an especially high call volume, but hundreds of people get through successfully each day, so please do not be discouraged.

Mistakes made on the weekly claims online require you to call in by phone to clarify the error.

What do you make of this reply from unemployment online?

the last sentence just seems like I did a clerical error..do you agree, I'm not ready for an uphill battle, so I hope I can just fax in and fix my mistake.

Thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

Wait for your determination, and file a request for redetermination and, if necessary for a hearing before an administrative law judge. Sounds to me as if your employer is objecting to your eligibility for benefits.

macjacks81 6 months ago

Thanks for the response. My case is currently at the Board of Appeals. It was overturned in my favor at the ALJ hearing, and my employer appealed to the Board. What are the chances of overturning it against me at the Board, and if so, will I be required to pay it back? Since it was no fault of my own to receive the benefits, I was told that if I am required to pay it back (alot of money), they would not make me.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 months ago

In my experience on the Board of Review for 5 years, the Board usually did not reverse the decisions of the administrative law judges. However, some judges were reversed fairly often, and others were almost never reversed. However, the Board of Review provided in the unemployment compensation statute was abolished by an executive order by Governor Rick Snyder. Snyder's order combined the unemployment compensation and worker's compensation appeals function into a single appeals board staffed, I've heard with members most of whom tend to be sympathetic toward employers. I hope the new appeals board members will rule fairly in accordance with the statute and prior court precedent. Time will tell. If the appeals body reverses the judge you will be required to repay the benefits you have received, plus 1% interest per month. The interest charge on payments determined to have been paid in error is another "Slick Rick" Snyder innovation.

macjacks81 6 months ago

I can hardly imagine that a 1% interest penalty per month would be assessed if the LAW Judge authorized payment and it was no fault of mine, except appealing and having the decision reversed in my favor. UNBELIEVABLE! Thank-you!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

I'm not able to provide an answer. In Michigan, most judges don't put a lot of credence in attendance systems based on automatic points for any absence. To establish misconduct the employer must show that you were absent without reasonable cause. Absences due to illness or medical problems are not without reasonable cause. Any medical evidence you can provide will be helpful in your case. I've had zero experience with the Family and Medical Leave Act.

Matt 5 months ago

Dear Mr. Deeds,

I love your name.

Quick unemployment question. I have been receiving unemployment for nearly my maximum 99 weeks (have been on it since 2009). In the beginning, I filled out my questionnaire and I was granted unemployment benefits. Then my employer appealed and I had an ALJ hearing. My former employer brought an attorney and my old boss (a little nerve-racking). We began going over paperwork and it was determined that I had not received necessary documents. So...case adjourned. A few months later, I go in for my hearing on the new date. There was a terrible snowstorm going on...I arrived on time, my employer did not. They called the court and were given a reprieve due to exigent circumstances. That was in February 2010. The next thing I ever heard from the DOL was a week ago...20 months later!!! How can I use this to my advantage? I barely remember the circumstances about my case. The court apologized and cited bureaucratic error...but they have to cut me a little slack, right? My employer will surely have written documentation in storage whereas I have barely any memory of what went on.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

Matt, well, I think it would be worth saying to the judge in the hearing just what you said above. And, if you should happen to get an unfavorable decision and sent a bill for restitution, it would certainly be valid to point out the unfairness of being asked to repay benefits for the period of delay for which the employer, the weather and the unemployment agency are responsible. Good luck on your case.

Kelly Schwarzkopf 5 months ago

How do I find out if I qualify for UI in Michigan? I have been employed continuously in 2006 for the State of Michigan at the Department of Community Health as a Student Assistant. This employment will be ending at the end of December, and I have not yet secured a new position? I graduated in May of 2011, and they have 'extended' my contract until the end of the year.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

Sounds to me as if you will be eligible when your job ends. I would go ahead and apply. You have nothing to lose. If you want to make sure, you could visit one of the unemployment insurance agency's Problem Resolution Offices (PROs).

http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--78925--,

Cathy 5 months ago

I appealed my first determination,now a new person from unemployment is reviewing my case and the statement i wrote them..why would they call a few days later of receiving my statement and ask for my second to last employers name, address,and reason for seperation?( I was fired by them to for the same rreason as my last employer attendance due to medical reasons)

are they going to consider what the second to last employer has to say about me? and base their final decision on that?

or do they solely only worry about what the last employer has to say?(I only worked there under 3 months)

Thank You for your time, I just need to know what to expect.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

In my experience, if your eligibility determination is appealed by your employer or by you, only your last employer would be sent a notice of the administrative law judge hearing. (I'm not absolutely sure about this.)

pkg1231 5 months ago

Hi, I would like to know if I will be able to receive UI. I was on intermittent FMLA for the last two years. I ran out of hours in Aug 2010 and called in using FMLA and received 4 points for the 4 days I called in after I ran out of FMLA hours. I got recertified after that. Recently, I was due to be recertified in Mid-July 2011 and my employer sent me a letter stating that due to excessive absences they wanted me to get recertified earlier, by June 15. I was on a very addictive medicine which I wanted to get off. My doctor wanted to put me on another addictive medicine. I was tired of this so I tried to get off the meds myself, which didn't work. My appts with the doctor the last couple of mths were inconsistent because I thought he was trying to keep me on meds. Needless to say, my Dr wouldn't fill out my FMLA paperwork and because I was still calling in using FMLA after June 15 I knew I would receive points like I did back in Aug 2010. The letter from my employer said if I didn't get recertified I would be subject to points and termination. I had 8 points before June 15 and its 10 points when your fired. I quit calling in around July 6 2011 because I knew I would be fired because I wouldve had more than 10 points. When this happened in Aug. 2010 I was suspended because of points and escorted out by security. I didn't want to go through the embarrassment of that again. My employer is saying that i had abandoned my job due to 3 no call no shows which are 4 points each and was terminated because of that. I have never in my life had a no call no show. Will I be eligible for unemployment?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

pkg, I'm not able to provide an answer. In Michigan, most judges don't put a lot of credence in attendance systems based on automatic points for any absence. To establish misconduct the employer must show that you were absent without reasonable cause. Absences due to illness or medical problems are not without reasonable cause. Any medical evidence you can provide will be helpful in your case. I've had zero experience with the Family and Medical Leave Act.

Cathy 5 months ago

My claim went to appeals board of review, no court date set yet,

I wrote alot personal medical information and doctors anmes in my appeal, will that get forwarded to my employer I put the claim against?

I read they send a notice to her that I appealed, but is the reason why and my personal info on there? or is just a statement saying I filed a claim?

Does she have a write to access my written appeal?

Thank you .

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

Cathy, I don't believe the Appeals Board sends information from your appeal to your former employer. Of course whatever you send in becomes part of the case file which both parties have a right to review if they request to do so. Technically, I think you were supposed to send a copy of your appeal letter to the employer's representative.

Cathy 5 months ago

They never told me I had to do that, and it's not in their manuel,but I wouldn't want to do that, b/c my appeal letter had alot personal testimony in it, and I don't want that getting in the hands of my old employer.

I thought the unemployment appeal board would just send her a letter saying I'm appealing their decision? Like the one they sent me when I was denied and stating the reasons?

How often in your experience have you seen Employers pull out of the appeal before the actual court date?

Because I don't believe my boss would go, and do they always have a represenative ? does their company supply that automatically?

Thank You.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

Well, in Michigan the Appeals Board hardly ever holds hearings and takes testimony. They base their decisions on the typed transcript of the hearing before the administrative law judge and on the case file. Only in very unusual cases involving large numbers of employees or other unusual circumstances do they hold a hearing. If your question is about an appeal of a determination or redetermination to be heard by an administrative law judge, the employer's representative, if he's doing his job correctly just about always gets a copy of the case file which would contain whatever you submitted in your appeal. If your question is about your appeal to the Board of Review or Appeals of a ruling by an administrative law judge, I would doubt that your employer would see the file.

Ashley M 5 months ago

I received unemployment payments from one company while I was working part-time for another company because I was working only 6-9 hours a week. While working part-time I went into the hospital with a complication during my pregnancy. I informed my employer and they immediately filled my hours for the remaining 4 weeks before my due date. Although I could've worked full-time after getting out the hospital after a day, I wasn't needed. I continued to collect unemployment. However, I received a letter saying that I need to repay back all those weeks since I had my child because I chose to go on a leave of absence. When I let my supervisor know that I could work up until I had the baby, she told me I wasn't needed. (I didn't think this would affect unemployment because of how few hours I work anyway). However, my supervisor did not communicate my desire for hours to her supervisor. When the unemployment contacted my employer, they said I did not want the hours.

I am going to try to appeal this redetermination in hopes to not have to pay back quadruple what they paid me! I thought when I reported to Marvin that I was answering honestly that I was available and willing to work part time and that I didn't refuse work.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

The judge will ask you for your explanation why you didn't disclose your part-time earnings to MARVIN. Without reading the case file I'm unable to offer an opinion on your chances of getting a favorable opinion from the administrative law judge. The unemployment agency comes down hard on people who collect benefits while not disclosing earnings they are receiving. Good luck.

Ashley M 5 months ago

I did disclose my earnings until I was no longer working. Their issue is that i was collecting while on a "leave of absence".

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

Well, maybe you'll be okay. At least you shouldn't have to make restitution 4x. You will have to convince the judge that, despite the fact you were on a leave of absence you were available and seeking employment and that you did not turn down your employer's offer of work during your pregnancy. Ordinarily when you are on a leave of absence you are presumed not to be available and seeking work. I don't see why you should be asked to repay quadruple the benefits you received. Good luck.

Cathy 5 months ago

Hey Mr. Deeds,

I checked online and my check status went from HD to IS

that means they were issued due u know how long it takes to get payed? are they going to send me a check or put it on my ATM?

Thanks

cathy 5 months ago

Sorry Mr. Deeds,

One more questions I just saw the response you left from my last question, so if Unemployment issued me a check, does that mean I still have to go to appeals? or did they base their decision off my statements i faxed?

Thanks

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

Cathy, I'm not sure how they will pay you. It usually doesn't take very long.

You should receive a redetermination finding you eligible. When you receive it, if it says you are eligible, there's no need to do anything else. If it says you are ineligible that means that the agency's right hand doesn't know what its left hand is doing and you should appeal the redetermination and request a hearing before an administrative law judge.

Cathy 5 months ago

Hey Ralph I got two questions please ;

Ok I got a letter yesterday in the mail saying my claim was redetermined in my favor and I would receive back pay from two months ago until now. that was great...i thought

then i get an e-mail today saying

"IS" means that there is an issue with your claim. This issue will be adjudicated and you need to be available for your interview. Make sure your phone number is correct and that you answer all your calls on the date of the interview. The call will come in from a private number, blocked, of an extension. Your interview is set for 12/12/11 and you need to be available from 7:30am to 4:30pm.

so does that mean I don't get any money at all until after the phone call???

and will it just be me and the adjunctioner on the phone ?? or my ex employer too ?

Thanks.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

Cathy, It appears to me that you won't be receiving benefits until the matter they want to interview you about in the phone call. I'm assuming you are not from Michigan because I'm not aware of the procedure you describe. It sounds to me that your employer has contested your eligibility and that there is an apparent inconsistency between what you have told the agency and what your former employer is telling the agency. I'm not sure whether you will be on the phone alone with the adjudicator or with the adjudicator and your employer. In Michigan telephone hearings are sometimes held by administrative law judges when it is not convenient for an employer or claimant to appear in person at the hearing.

Cathy 5 months ago

Thank You for the quick response, I believe it is about discharge, when the last employer fired me, however, shouldn't they send me a letter telling me what the exact dispute is before I speak with someone, how can I defend and prepare myself if I don't know what the true issue is ?

Would they tell me over the phone if I call unemployment tommorow, I want to be found eligible..I need a fair chance..I don't want to go in blindly.

Thanks.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

I think it would be only fair for them to notify you what the issue or issues are to be discussed. I don't know what information you could get over the phone. It would be worth a try. Where do you live? The procedure you describe doesn't sound like Michigan.

Cathy 5 months ago

Well I can't say exactly, not because I don't want to but because I'm fearful who see's what I write. It's west coast. I guess similar to California laws. I can't believe I never received a notification about this telephone interview.

I looked it up and it seems in this state, I will just be talking with an unemployment investigator ie. adjudicator, It seems they want to discuss the reason for my discharge from my last employer.

Can you give me some good advice on how to act during the interview? Do I just answer yes and no, and not give more information then they ask, or do I say what happened? I don't know if their on the side of me or the employer?

I mean I have logical reasons and truthful facts.I just don't know what to say and how to word it, and I don't know what the employer has told them exactly.

Wish you had an e-mail i could tell you in detail what was said, I could really use the help.

Thank-You.

Cathy 5 months ago

ok thanks you can take it down for you rown security, I'll e-mail you my story later if you dont mind.

Thanks so much .

chris 5 months ago

Wondering if you could answer this question since i cant find it anywhere else. I have worked on and off for ford as long term supplimental. My recent lay off was 3 weeks ago and i filed for unemployment and was approved but they only gave 150 a week when i worked for 10 months and made enough money and met all requirements to get max benefits. However they are basing this $150 a week on the fact i was laid of temporarely for 2 weeks in july, which did not give me enough time and earnings to get max benefits. Now, Ive done this 2 other times in last 5 years and both times I was laid off they always establish a new claim and at some point go back to old one.

Not to be too confusing but my hire dates and lay off dates and temp shut down lay offs have mostly fell around same months of year.

As of my most recent one i was hired on Feb 14 2011, laid off 2 weeks in july( thats where they established the $150) returned to work till nov 22 2011. But this time they just put me back on last open claim. Ive even had unemployment office tell me that with each lay off they are suppossed to reestablish new benefit year. Any help would be greatfull. I cant seem to find answers anywhere.

And if they are supposed establish a new claim how do i go about doing that. No one in unemployment will help

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

Chris, I don't know the answer to your question. You should try going to one of the unemployment agency's "Problem Resolution Offices where you can sit down and talk to a real, live, knowledgeable human being. I've heard from other claimants that they have gotten good help from people in the Problem Resolution Offices. Here's a list of the office locations:

PRO Locations:

Detroit - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-385, Detroit, MI 48202

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

Grand Rapids - 3391 Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

Mt. Clemens (temporary) - Macomb County DHS, 21885 Dunham Rd., Suite 7, Clinton Twp., MI 48036

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

Muskegon (temporary) - Muskegon County DHS, 2700 Baker St., Muskegon Heights, MI 49444

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

After cutting the maximum weeks of regular benefits from 26 weeks to 20 weeks the Republicans in our legislature in Lansing are proposing more cuts in unemployment benefits.

http://www.freep.com/article/20111210/NEWS06/11121

Cathy 5 months ago

Hey Mr.Deeds,

So on December 2nd I received a letter from unemployment stating you are entitled to benefits from 10/2010, if otherwise eligible. I waited and no benefits.

Then, on December 5th, I received another letter stating I have a phone call tomm, Monday with an adjudicator for additional information,

* The reason for your seperation from your last(this was already addressed) or second to last employer needs to be addressed, which I already did so over the phone and by fax, and I believe its about my second to last emloyer

* Your availability and Ability to accept emplyment needs to be addressed.

Ok, well I don't understand, b/c in my fax statement and every week when I apply for benefits it asks if you able and looking for work and I always put yes, so it behooves me to go over the same questions

2nd,both my last employers were for attendance, however I have medical reasons, in the past year I was ill and my illness was out of my control and being handled by doctors, and was on medicine which has caused adverse reactions, but now since ealy late October when I filed my 1st claim for UI, I have been feeling better and am willing and able to work, eventhough I'll always be on medications.

My question is how can I word that over the phone w/o giving to much info and make a validated argument?

what is that statement I should use about disproving misconduct? I want to say I never willingfly disobeyed my emloyers rules etc:

I mean if I was sick isn't that "good cause" to miss work?

BTW this will be my fouth call from and adjudicator,and I have faxed in many statements and pay stubs before.

Is this ever going to end? Am I fighting a lost battle here? I never in my life heard of other people going fo UI having these many problems?

I don't know why I'm still arguing this point with them, I feel they side with the opposing team, and don't really hear me out. I never had health insurance at my second to last employer for over a year, or did I qualify fo FMLA, they were and agency that just gave people like me work, whenever and did call me off quit frequently, I mean it was unreliable wok, but I did meet all eligibilty requirements with that agency for 4 quarters, so I am entitled to benefits even if they were an agency, i never had a contract or anything, the last place they had me at and used me mostly on the weekends and Mondays, was just a palce I went to, and afte a few times I cancelled shifts way in advance, b/c I was sick, they said I couldn't go back there, b/c they have a strict attendance policy, the Agency never again called em fo work, or did they update my profile with the certfications I needed,so is working for the agency going to cause me problems, I never denied wok from them, they never called me, and other jobs they had they didn't feel I had enough experience in and wouldn't send me.

Does agency's ahve different rules thaey follow when apply eligibility for employment?

So I ask you what are my validated points to bring up at tommorows phone inteview ( its just b/w me and the adjuductiner) please help me phrase this corectly.

I have been waiting ove 2 1/2 months for benefits from unemployment, and have not received any funds, I am going to be evicted in 4 days, loose my car and everything...its wrong what thei doing..I apply for work with no response, i mean I need unemployment or I'm really doomed, and I believe I'm entitled to it, I never meant to do anything wrong or cause any misconduct my illness was out of my hands, and really my second to last employer is pretty much the one's who would be paying for the UI benefits, and their not fighting it as far as I am aware at the present time, so whats the hold up?

Is it okay to ask the person at the end of the phone call tomm, when will I be receiving all my back pay?? or is that wrong? I need to know whee I stand...

I mean would it be rude of me to ask the person tomm. on the phone, when I can receive all my back pay, like it said I was entitled to on the second?

And afte this phone call how long does it take for the adjudctione to make her decision, I really feel like this is insane, I neve committed goss misconduct, apply every week for benefits and still nothing?

I'm at a loss what to say tomm, what to expect, please any help would be greatly appreciated.. I just don't want to ove due it, and do they even care I am completley broke, with no job responses, is it even worth mentioning?

Thanks Alot. I'm soy it was so long

So stressed..and being mislead.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

1. Explain that your absences were due to illness. Tell them you will send doctor's statements documenting your absences.

2. Explain, if that's the case, that your employers' attendance policy penalized you for any absence even when you were sick. Too many absences without reasonable cause is misconduct under unemployment compensation statutes, not absence for illness or other reasons beyond your control. Another factor they will consider is whether you called your employer when you were sick.

3. Also, you will have to convince the adjudicator that you are actually looking for work. Be prepared for him or her to ask for examples of what you have been doing to find a job, e.g., names of employers you have contacted or sent resumes to.

Cathy 5 months ago

Thanks fo you quick response

i Just looked on the bottom of that letter I eceived on the 2nd entitling me for benefits,fom 10/2011 and on the back page it reads :

notice to employer:

non -sepeation issues, no ruling applies

What does that mean? non-sepeation issues? is that good or bad ? no party of interest was put down, b/c I am the party of interest to my second to last employer

But doesn't non-sepeation issues mean I was layed-off?

and I have medical files and names of doctor's, but their at the doctors office,Can i just tell them over the phone what doctors and what illness and medications,I don't have doctor's notes, b/c they were never required at either job, they were seperate occasions and I told the person I spoke with I was ill and gave plenty of notice.

Technically, under the Americans with disability act I do not have to give my employer in depth about my illness, I did tell he I was sick and getting better, but my last employer had no sympathy, and said "maybe your too sick to work here." and smirked. I don't know if I should bring that up.

But my second to last employe was more understanding and said I know you have issues and I know things are out of your control right now, but they couldn't send me back to that agency job. b/c of there rules and no longer asked me for any other work.

So what is defined as non-seperation issues?

and If they ask me if I'm able to work eventhough I was sick this last year, I'll tell the truth yes, b/c i found a new great doctor who know put me on the right medications, he even tol dme it could take 6 weeks to take effect, by then my last employer fired me before 3 months. Should I tell them that as well, I want to tell thetruth without messing my side of teh story up.

Thanks Again.

Cathy 5 months ago

Thanks fo you quick response

i Just looked on the bottom of that letter I eceived on the 2nd entitling me for benefits,fom 10/2011 and on the back page it reads :

notice to employer:

non -sepeation issues, no ruling applies

What does that mean? non-sepeation issues? is that good or bad ? no party of interest was put down, b/c I am the party of interest to my second to last employer

But doesn't non-sepeation issues mean I was layed-off?

and I have medical files and names of doctor's, but their at the doctors office,Can i just tell them over the phone what doctors and what illness and medications,I don't have doctor's notes, b/c they were never required at either job, they were seperate occasions and I told the person I spoke with I was ill and gave plenty of notice.

Technically, under the Americans with disability act I do not have to give my employer in depth about my illness, I did tell he I was sick and getting better, but my last employer had no sympathy, and said "maybe your too sick to work here." and smirked. I don't know if I should bring that up.

But my second to last employe was more understanding and said I know you have issues and I know things are out of your control right now, but they couldn't send me back to that agency job. b/c of there rules and no longer asked me for any other work.

So what is defined as non-seperation issues?

and If they ask me if I'm able to work eventhough I was sick this last year, I'll tell the truth yes, b/c i found a new great doctor who know put me on the right medications, he even tol dme it could take 6 weeks to take effect, by then my last employer fired me before 3 months. Should I tell them that as well, I want to tell thetruth without messing my side of teh story up.

Thanks Again.

Cathy Part 2 0f 2 5 months ago

Sorry addn :

And during my year + with the agency they had called me off several times two hours before the shift stating, " so and so place does not need you today."

Is that even worth mentioning? or just stick to what they ask me, b/c honestly I may have cancelled shifts b/c I was sick, but they would have most likely called me off anyway. I would give them 12 hours notice to cancel shifts. And they would only give me two hours :/

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

"non -sepeation issues, no ruling applies

What does that mean? non-sepeation issues? is that good or bad ? no party of interest was put down, b/c I am the party of interest to my second to last employer

But doesn't non-sepeation issues mean I was layed-off?"

Sorry, I don't know the answer to these questions.

To be eligible, you have to be available to work, able to work and looking for work.

"And during my year + with the agency they had called me off several times two hours before the shift stating, " so and so place does not need you today."

Is that even worth mentioning? or just stick to what they ask me, b/c honestly I may have cancelled shifts b/c I was sick, but they would have most likely called me off anyway. I would give them 12 hours notice to cancel shifts. And they would only give me two hours :/"

Sure it's worth mentioning. Fair is fair.

Please let me know how your telephone hearing turns out.

Maria 5 months ago

Nov 1,2010 I was granted a medical leave of absence for 8 wks. Jan 31,2011 would be the last day of my leave. On Nov 3,2011 I saw my hand specialist for carpal tunnel syndrome that progressively got worse and prevented me from doing my job (physical therapist assistant). He recommended that I get an EMG done. I had left my employer know this is what the specialist recommended. I could not get the procedure done until March 3,2011, which was after my medical leave had expired. Again I had let my employer know this. In March I received a letter terminating my position because my medical leave had expired and he said he had not heard from me to how my situation is going. This is not true, I kept him abreast of everything. I was taken before the ALJ because unemployment said I was on medical leave while receiving unemployment benefits, this was proven not true and began receiving benefits again. Then the other owner asks for a rehearing, saying I failed to return to work. The specialist filled out a UIA form releasing me back to work but not at my old job(physical therapy assistant). Well, the ALJ found me ineligible. My advocate did nothing for my case and I lost. I filed a rehearing and she denied that! If I had sustained further injury at work, could not do my job and the doctor did not release me to return to the same job. How can I be disqualified?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

Your only option now is to appeal the ALJ decision to the Appeal Board in Lansing (if you are in Michigan) within 30 days. (The appeal board must receive your appeal within 30 days. A postmark isn't good enough.) What reasons did the ALJ cite for finding you ineligible? It's impossible for me to express an opinion without reading the decision, case file and transcript. From what you said I don't see why you would be ineligible.

Cathy 5 months ago

Hey Mr. Deeds ,

Just giving you an update, I really appreciate all your insight.

So I had my telephone interview on 12/12/11 and I believe it went well, I answeed honestly and did not ove elaborate, eventhough my feelings get in the way at times.

So i guess now I just wait for the letter for my redetermination in the above matter.

Today I received from e-mail from unemployment:

You must wait for all determination letters, also the discharge issue from ******.

The redetermination should be soon, but the discharge will take a couple more weeks because it was not reported on the original filing.

I don't know if they know what their doing or if their overwhelmed, take a few weeks for what?? I mean I answered those questions on Monday... I've been waiting two months for any benefits and answered timely and responded to all phone calls. When I called the appeals deptartment regarding a schedule date..she said that's funny we don't even have you scheduled but your in our system, since November and we already booked all our telephone hearings for December 2011 system..wonder if I'll ever get one.

Any suggestions what to do next ?

Thanks You.

Cathy 5 months ago

addendum:

I also took you advice and told him I was actively looking for jobs and I keep my log, and even went to an employment help center to get a listing of numbers and website which I use, he said that was good, and he also said that the medical info if I do go to appeals is important as you said, and I told him I am able to work , and he said that's good. SO i guess that part is a waiting game. Hopefully it went in my favor, but as I mentioned above where is my appeal date.

Sleepless in the Burg 5 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

Thought I might touch base to let you know the hearing went well and in my favor. So I am blessed I dont have to pay anymore restitution, I will admit I am very frustrated that I still have not been reimbursed the restution they helped themselves via a deduction from my unemployment benefits. It seems the last battle might be obtaining the funds they wrongfully deducted. I've been told that if my first protest wouldve been read that..there wouldnt have been a need for a hearing or even a redetermination.

Wondering if you might have any knowledge on who to contact about restitution reimbursement? I have tried on my own with no success.

Warmest Regards,

Sleepless in the Burg

PS The hearing date was beginning of November.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

If you are in Michigan I suggest you go to a Problem Resolution Office and speak face-to-face with a real live, human being. You shouldn't have to do anything. The UIA should automatically refund your restitution payments based on the judge's decision. Thanks a lot for letting us know the result of your hearing.

PRO Locations:

Detroit - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-385, Detroit, MI 48202

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

Grand Rapids - 3391 Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

Mt. Clemens (temporary) - Macomb County DHS, 21885 Dunham Rd., Suite 7, Clinton Twp., MI 48036

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

Muskegon (temporary) - Muskegon County DHS, 2700 Baker St., Muskegon Heights, MI 49444

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

Cathy 5 months ago

well i wrote you above 4days ago you never replied maybe you didn't see it..

anyway still no response back from unemployment this has been going on for over two months does it usually take this long to work out an issue for my UI benefits, or should I call and ask to speak with someone in administration?

Thanks.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

Cathy, I don't have a good answer for you. A telephone call to the unemployment agency wouldn't hurt. Slow action is common in states like California and Michigan where unemployment is high.

Sleepless in the Burg 5 months ago

Mr. Deeds,

I cant tell you how frustrating it is to call the number for restitution...they will gladly inform you on how to start to repay and obtain an advocate if needed. But ask the question of when to expect repayment of wrongfully deduction of restitution from my unemployment benefits and all I have been told is this " I have worked here for 20 years and that you should receive repayment 30 days after our office has received notice from the courts." It will soon be 60 day since the hearing date..and the documents were posted dated the day we had the hearing. I may take your advice and just after the New Year head to a resolution office.

Happy Holidays,

Sleepless in the Burg

PS Thank you again.

Cathy 5 months ago

Mr. Deeds

Just updating..wish I had any news I called the call center and the claims center..it's been 4 weeks since I filed an appeal and 3 + months since i filed my first UI claim..all they say is "that's odd , you don't have a scheduled appearance yet." and thats all they can give me

I'm like don't you people realize I'm about to loose everything I worked hard for??

She said whe you talk to the appeal referee tell him you need a speedy answer, and expalin your situation"

Wonder how that will fly with the appeal's referee, prob. tick him off..noone there cares and noone has answers ..I'm so broke and frustrated..

Well have a blessed holiday.

Heather 5 months ago

I applied for unemployment at the same time as another worker(April 2011. We both quit due to lack of hours. We were hired for 40 but only getting about 8 hours a week. We had both worked there almost 2 years. She had worked there about 2 weeks longer than I had. We were both denied and they stated we were denied because we stayed longer than they deemed we should have after our hours were dropped. She received a letter stating that her case had been reconsidered and she started receiving benefits. I did not receive this letter and never did appeal. Then today I received a letter stating "This is a reconsidered finding". It shows what I should be receiving weekly including what I will receive for my dependents. So my first instinct after not being able to reach anyone at the local office or the office that sent the letter was to call and certify as I have not done this since 4 weeks after applying since I was denied and my case was closed. I finally get a hold of a representative at the 1-888 number and she states I will have to appeal this case and that I cannot even certify for two weeks since I just reopened the case and she suggested I take the letter to my local office. So I take the letter down to my local office and they were VERY rude and got a horrible attitude with me for "reopening" the case when I was already denied and tell me that I must work so many hours and earn so much to be able to qualify for UE. I am completely confused about where to go from here or why I even received this letter if I was still denied and my case had been closed. Any suggestions on where I should go from here?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

Heather, my experience has been in Michigan. Procedures vary somewhat from state to state. However, here are some comments/suggestions:

1. From what you said it sounds to me as if you should be eligible for benefits because your reason for quitting was "good cause attributable to your employer.

2. Appeal your decision following all the procedures.

3. Document all contacts with the unemployment agency, keeping notes on date, time and name of individual with whom you had contact and the response you receive.

4. Continue to certify that you are unemployed, available for work and seeking work in accordance with unemployment agency procedures until your case is finally resolved.

5. Point out that another employee in similar circumstances is receiving benefits.

6. Sometimes it can be worthwhile to contact the office of your state legislative representative. In Michigan, at least, state reps have contacts at the unemployment agency and can be helpful in cases like yours where you aren't getting fair answers from employees at the agency.

Good luck!

vlrprks 5 months ago

Mr. Deeds, my issue is my unemployment insurance was denied because my employer said I quit, but they fired me! The boss was a complete bully, and he constantly had a bad temper. I was there only a couple of months, and didn't have to deal with him directly, so I actually enjoyed my job. This is a family owned business, so the wife was my immediate supervisor. Anyway, the day I was fired, he came in and started yelling at me at the top of his lungs for absolutely no good reason. The issue he was upset about was something we had never even discussed before and wasn't an infraction at all. After about 5 minutes of being screamed at I asked him to please not yell at me. He then yelled for me to leave immediately and turn in my key. So I left. His wife was there and at first tried to come to my defense, but let this happen to me. They completely lied to the Dept of labor, and said I quit! I was denied because of this and I appealed. In my appeal letter I told them I disagree because i was fired that I did not quit. I also added that there was bad working conditions and that I was treated inhumanely, and discriminated against. However, I added that I didn't quit. Will the burden of proof be upon them to prove? I really want to be able to represent my point that I was fired, and not even get into how I was treated. Even though I was treated badly I didn't quit, and I want that to be my point. I only have my word againts this couples word as to what was said that day. I asked for an in person hearing instead of phone because I prefer to set this straight in person. Can my word be enough?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

You have convinced me that you were fired. I can't predict what the judge will decide. You'll just have to look him or her in the eye and tell the truth. The burden will be on your employer to convince the judge that you quit. If you have an advocate he should be prepared to do some tough cross-examining of your former boss. You should point out that you didn't request a meeting with your boss. You had no intention of quitting when he came to you while you were doing your job and began to berate you about something. And when you asked him to stop yelling at you he asked for you to turn in your key which meant that you were fired. As you indicated, it probably would be best not to emphasize the mistreatment you had previously suffered because it might tend to strengthen your employer's case that you quit. The judge may ask both you and your employer exactly what words were spoken just before you were fired. Just look the judge in the eye and tell the truth.

Good luck. ()If you think of it let us know what the judge decides and how the hearing went.)

vlrprks 5 months ago

Thanks so much for your help. I'll take your advice and just tell the hearing officer exactly what happened. I'll let you know how it turns out, and thanks again for the your response.

Anthony Soldano 5 months ago

My case went before the 3 judges and I was denied my unemployment 2 judges said there wasn't enough evidence either way and one said he believed the denial was unjust and I shouldn't have been denied. I filed an appeal on they're decision back in July and they sent me a letter saying they received it but that's it. Now I get a letter telling me to quit reporting and have heard absolutely nothing on my appeal, not sure what to do now.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 months ago

In Michigan I advise clients to keep certifying in accordance with the unemployment agency procedures until all appeals are exhausted. You won't get benefits for any week or period for which you do not report or certify that you are unemployed, available and seeking employment.

Macdoctor56 4 months ago

I'm in Michigan and I still report even though they told me not to. Do you recommend I hire and attorney???

Lamaryah4 4 months ago

Hello Mr. Deeds.

Im a single mother of 4 in Illinois. I was recently discharged from my employer based on a point system. I missed a day from work due to me not understanding their scheduling system/inability to comprehend their varying scheduling of their staff. That was the first time I ever missed. I missed another day to my one of my children being hospitalized. Thanks to some positive points that I accumulated from being a good worker through the point system, I was warned that any tardy irregardless of the reason, will result in my automatic termination, my supervisor had me sign the paper with my first 2 absences on it although one was excused for the positive points I earned.

Unfortunately, My car broke down on my way to work. I called my employer to let them know and a taxi to try to make it to work anyway. I had to be at work at 7;30pm-7;30am, the taxi did not arrive until 10pm. My supervisor told me that they were getting another CNA to fill in for me, I asked her if this was counted against me due to the unforseen circumstances--she told me that it was. The next night another supervisor told me that I was not to come in(ultimately my termination). I tried to explain the circumstances once again to this supervisor as well. I let her know that my car had broken down and that I had no transportation but was in the process of securing transportation. It was to no avail. But something strange happened the next night, the same supervisor called me the next night asking me why I was not at work. I explained the situation and also reminded her that she fired me.

A little while later, I applied for unemploment benefits. Was ultimately denied because my employer told them that after I my car broke down--I was scheduled to work 2 more days after that. So the I was found ineligible for benefits due to misconduct.

Please note that my employer has a system where they call off individuals due to a low census policy. 4 people are "supposed to" work my floor, but the employer only makes 3 work the floor. I believe this was their way of getting rid of me by using the point system and counting days after I was terminated.

I filed an appeal which will take place soon. I have a copy of my call log showing I called my employer and the calls that were made to me. I have the proof from the police department showing that my vehicle was towed from on the side of the road.

I do not know what to do. I know that the employers usually win in situations like this and to be honest-I feel that my appealing is a waste of time. I literally have nothing. no income whatsoever, no transportation, nothing. I tried for unemployment benefits and I cannnot recieve them due to this. I could really use your advice on this matter. Should I just give up? or should I continue? Please let me know at your earliest convenience. Thank you.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

MacDoctor, The unemployment agency will provide you with a representative once your appeal has been scheduled for a hearing before an administrative law judge. The stages are 1. Apply for benefits. 2. Respond on time to Agency's request for information. 3. Receive determination of eligibility or ineligibility.

4. Appeal determination within 30 days. 5. Receive re-determination. 6. Appeal redetermination, requesting a hearing before an administrative law judge. 7. Appeal administrative law judge decision to appeal board in Lansing.

I can't tell from your query what stage your case is at. You may want to speak to a representative of the agency at the nearest Problem Resolution Office. I've heard from a number of people that the folks there are quite helpful.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

Lamaryah4, First, I don't have experience in Illinois. In Michigan, many or most judges don't put a lot of stock in attendance point systems for determining disqualifying "misconduct" under the statute. Absence, per se, is not misconduct. Absence without reasonable cause must be established by the employer. However, the more frequently you are absent the harder it can be to convince the judge that you should be eligible. Taking a child to the hospital should be considered an excused absence. Ditto for a car breakdown.

Don't give up. All you can do is go to the hearing and convince the judge that your absences were nearly all due to circumstances beyond your control and should not count against your eligibility for benefits.

Good luck. If you think of it let us know how your case turns out.

Macdoctor56 4 months ago

Ralph

I've been through the board of reviews, 2 judges said there wasn't enough evidence either way and one said he believed the denial was unjust and I shouldn't have been denied my unemployment, I appealed they're decision. I've been dealing with this for 2 years 5 months, It's now been 6 months since I appealed the boards decision and still nothing is happening.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

Are you in Michigan? In Michigan the next step after the appeals board in Lansing is to the circuit court nearest to where you live or work. I'm unable to sort our your situation. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to grant unemployed home owners up to 6 months of reduced or skipped payments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/12/business/unemplo

vlrprks 4 months ago

Hi Mr. Deeds, I posted this question above that you helped me with 2 weeks ago. I now have more info, and a new question about my appeal hearing coming up next week. The issue above that the boss was berateing me about was using space heaters that they provide to keep warm.We had never had a discussion saying not to use them. In fact, my immediate supervisor, his wife, told me to use the space heaters because they had not paid to have gas utility cut on, so the central heat doesn't work.In the fact finding statement to Department Of Labor, they lied and said that they do have central heat , and that the boss simply told me I can't use the space heaters so I quit. That's not true, they don't have heat, and they fired me, I didn't quit. I subpeoned the gas utility company, and I have a written statement saying there hasn't been gas on in that business in three years. The issues to be addressed in my hearing are: Georgia,sections, 1. Whether or not the claiment had a good work related cause for leaving or whether the claiment voluntarily accepted a separation 2. Whether the discharge or suspension of the claiment was for failure to fllow orders, rules 3. Whether the employer supplied written separation to Department Of Labor in a timely manner. My question is, should I have made one of the issues whether or not they have heat? It's probably too late now to add an issue. I mainly wanted to use that evidence to show that they didn't tell the truth about having heat, so therefore, they aren't telling the truth about saying I quit. I went to a lot of trouble to get that from the utility comany,and it's the only evidence I have. I've already sent copies to the employer and the appeals department prior to the hearing as we have to do per appeal dept. Will I be able to use this to prove my case, or did I have to make it a separate issue?Also, will the employer have to speak first to prove that I quit? It's confusing because the first issue on the hearing notice is whether or not I quit, and the 2nd issue is whether or not I was fired. I want the burden to be on them to go first if possible.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

I'm not familiar with the hearing procedures in Georgia. However, I think it would be to your advantage to introduce the evidence from the gas company that the gas hasn't been on for three years. You still should be able to testify that you were fired because of the dispute over the use of space heaters which was approved by your immediate supervisor. Your use of the space heaters doesn't prove that you quit your job. The judge's decision will depend on whose testimony he finds more convincing on the quit vs. discharge issue. In Michigan it's hard for claimants to win if the judge becomes convinced that they quit. There must be a quite serious issue go overcome the legal presumption that a reasonable employee will find another job before quitting the one he has unless there is a strong reason which he has called to the attention of his employer and given his employer time to remedy--e.g., a safety or health hazard, asking the employee to do something dishonest or immoral, a significant reduction in wages and/or benefits, clear racial discrimination or continual abusive remarks directed toward the employee. Violations of the wage and hour law would also qualify as good cause for quitting. Therefore, you must try to convince the judge that you didn't quit and that your use of the space heater was approved and in any event didn't constitute disqualifying misconduct under the unemployment statute. In Michigan court decisions have defined misconduct as "wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest." That can mean a serious single incident such as insubordination or repeated minor instances--e.g., tardiness and/or absences without reasonable cause.

Good luck!

vlrprks 4 months ago

Thank you so much for your advice, it's been very informative.

Macdoctor56 4 months ago

Yes I'm in Michigan.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

Macdoctor, ordinarily the next step after a decision by the Board of Review is an appeal to the circuit court nearest to where you live or worked.

stephanie 4 months ago

My previous employer is arguing my unemployment - I thought I was terminated but they are telling the UI department that the decision was mutual. I was called into the office on a Monday and they asked me loaded questions like do you really want to be here in 10 years and You don't really Love this job, do you? i was told that Friday would most likely be my last day. (no real reasoning) On Wednesday i was told to clock out at the end of the day I was dismissed. There was plenty of work to be done- It was before the holidays and I asked if I could stay on longer to help them get through the busy season-- They told me no A girl that was working part time was planning to come back on full time.

I have to rebuttle this today - Because I do not think that it was a mutual agreement!- (if anything I was fired for not doing anything wrong)

Is there anything specific I need to tell the unemployment office?

Please Help!! It would be Much appreciated as soon as possible

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

1. Tell the truth.

2. Point out that you had no thoughts of quitting and that you didn't intitiate the process that led to your termination. You were CALLED INTO THE OFFICE BY YOUR EMPLOYER. You didn't ask for a meeting.

3. There is no category in my experience of "mutual" Either you were terminated (fired or laid off) or you quit. If you are terminated you are not obligated to object in order to be eligible for benefits.

4. Try to remember as close as you can what your employer said and what you said at the meeting when you were terminated and tell that to the judge or agency rep.

Good Luck!

rwhite 4 months ago

I was just wonder how long does it take to hear back from the unemployment office after having a hearing with the administrative law judge .. that has said in the letter that i got that i am entitled for benifits. it been almost a month

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

In Michigan it usually doesn't take very long for benefits to start after an ALJ decision. You could try phoning the agency or the judge's office if it goes beyond a month.

jedwards 4 months ago

I was due for renewal of my unemployment since I normally filed during layoffs in December, however I've only been drawing regularly since I was fired in September. When I filled out the new application online I was told I would have to be approved all over again. Now it's been a month and the case is open, but they still haven't given my an answer. The local office says it could be up to twelve weeks, but I got an e-mail saying 4-6 weeks. If they don't give me their decision within a certain time period what are my rights? I can't appeal since a decision hasn't been made, but when I ask questions about what to do they give a canned response. I would think 6 weeks is more than enough time, but am I just at their mercy? Your advice would be greatly appreciated.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

Sorry, I don't know the answer to your question. You might try going to one of the Unemployment Agency's "Problem Resolution Offices" and talking face-to-face with a representative of the agency. I've heard that these offices are staffed with knowledgeable, helpful people. (A link to the PRO site can be found above.)

Here's the link: http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--78925--,

vlrprks 4 months ago

Hi Mr. Deeds, I wanted to let you know I won my appeal hearing. Thank you so much for your advice. The employer fabricated so many falsehoods which was very upsetting to me during the hearing. But I just kept to the facts that I did not quit, that I was fired. Also, they sent a 3rd party manager who wasn't even there when the incident happened to fabricate information . The decision came back that 1. It was their burden to prove I quit and they did not, 2. I did not commit misconduct because they told me I could use the space heaters THEY provided, and 3. they presented hearsay testimony which has no effect in that hearing. So thank you. I just looked the Hearing officer in the eye like you said, and told the truth.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

vlrprks, thanks for letting us know the good news! The judges are pretty good at detecting lies in testimony.

rwhite 4 months ago

Is there more then one number to to speak with someone for the agency. i only have one and i am getting no where been calling it for the last 3 days.

Pam 4 months ago

Raplh,

I was laid off July of 2008, so I started to collect unemployment. I then got a job Oct of that same year. Due to some issues that I was having I had to quit, I had only worked there for 2 months, but during that time I was still collecting unemployment (wrong I know) I applied for an ext months later but was denied. I then received a letter in the mail about overpayment. I went to the hearing and the employer never showed up. The Judge ruled in the employers favor. But on the paper is said that if the other party doesn't show then they rule in the favor of the party that does which was me. My question can I take this back to court since the employer never showed and get this overturned?

I was told to write to the board of reviews. But I dont know what I should write.. Can you give me some ideas?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

rwhite, you may want to go to one of the UIA's Problem Resolution Offices if there is one not too far from where you live. I've heard they have knowledgeable and helpful perople there.

PRO Locations:

Detroit - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-385, Detroit, MI 48202

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

Grand Rapids - 3391 Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

Mt. Clemens (temporary) - Macomb County DHS, 21885 Dunham Rd., Suite 7, Clinton Twp., MI 48036

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

Muskegon (temporary) - Muskegon County DHS, 2700 Baker St., Muskegon Heights, MI 49444

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

If you need help, please call one of our toll-free hotlines:

UNEMPLOYED WORKERS WITH QUESTIONS - If you are an unemployed worker with questions, please call one of our toll-free hotlines during the hours below:

Claims line, 1-866-500-0017

8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. weekdays

http://ralphdeeds.hubpages.com/hub/Unemployment_Co

slimgramma 4 months ago

Hi Ralph!

I have spent over an hour reading all of the posts..Can't seem to find one "just like mine" so I have to bother you.:(

I just received my denial. According to them I was fired for too many absences. I won't even go into that joke! I plan to appeal. I did notice somwhere that it is not misconduct if you have a legitimate illness or something. We were allowed 48 hrs of unpaid absences. In Nov I had two. I went to ER with brochitis and sinusitis. Had a breathing treatment and xrays. A week later ER called and said that I had a nodule on one lung and it was very important to have a CT scan. He said 3 times that it could be cancer..(it wasn't). Anyway it took another week to get that scheduled. So on that date I took 3 hrs off for the scan and waited for the results. All in all it was a 3 in 30days which brought my last warning and supposidly got me fired. I didn't bring in a doctors note or stuff from the ER because I was a little too worried about my scan and had been told many times not to bother with dr.s slips because they wouldn.t help me. Anyway, I DO have to slips.

UIA states I was fired for excessive absences and was aware that if I took any days off I would exceed the 3 in 30 which is concidered misconduct. Now I wonder if I should appeal..Thanks!

Oh yes! And In my termination papers it states two more incidents that I was written up for which I don't agree with. But that wasn't mentioned in my denial..Can they use those for a later date?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

Slimgramma, any administrative law judge worth his salt will not find that absences for documented illnesses are misconduct, regardless of the unfair employer rule or policy. Misconduct is too many instances of absence WITHOUT reasonable cause. Illness is a reasonable cause. That is the law in Michigan and I'm pretty sure in most other states as well.

slimgramma 4 months ago

Well Mr. Deeds my first thought is to jump up and down. But being the pessamist that I am...lol If you knew what these people were like you would probably advice me to get a lawyer for a hostile work enviroment!:) Thank you for a quick response even on a weekend! You are such a help to all of us unemployed..Thanks!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

sg, let us know whether my comment turned out to be correct. Good luck!

LST 4 months ago

Hello Mr. Deeds

I have a question about my unemployment case and I would love your input/advice. I am sending in a letter for monetary redetermination. I was reading your responses about quitting a job and I know there's a gray area when it comes to resigning. Here's my story...I was employed with my job for 7yrs prior to resigning. My mother became very ill and was hospitalized, in the ICU, with a deadly illness for several weeks. I was told that once she returned home, she would need 24hr care. I originally had someone that would be able to take care of her when I was at work but, at the last minute they backed out. The stress of finding someone to take care of my mom started to affect my performance at work. I ask my supervisor for a leave of absence. She informed me b/c I was contingent, (not full-time or part-time) I would have to quit. After 90 days I attempted to get my job back, but my position was already filled. I spent months looking for a job. During this time I did not file for unemployment. Never having to file for unemployment, I did not know the process. I was under the assumption that you could not file unless you got fired or laid off. It was not until Feb 2011 I found out differently. I received my last paycheck Jan 2010. These are the issues involved in my case: sec 46 a, b, c (benefit yr) sec 27b1 (benefit rate, weekly), sec 32 (claim for benefits).

I am aware that I have no wages after Dec 2010. Are they able to go back to my last year of employment? I have copies of my pay checks for that year proving that I made sufficient funds for each quarterly base period. Also, can you explain Alternate Base Period and how it works?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

LST, you have nothing to lose by filing, but if you're in Michigan where I've had experience the unemployment compensation statute and court decisions make it hard to collect benefits if you resign for reasons other than serious conditions attributable to your employer AFTER calling the condition to your employer's attention and giving them a chance to make a correction. The reasons include uncorrected work place safety or health hazards, significant reductions in pay or benefits, being instructed by your employer to do something dishonest. I wish I could be more encouraging. Good luck.

Here's a link to summaries of court decisions on the effect of resignation on elibibility for benefits. You may wish to review these summaries.

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

LST 4 months ago

Thank you Mr. Deeds. I am in Michigan and I will take a look at the link.

slimgramma 4 months ago

Hi Mr. Deeds! I called you "Ralph" before but no one else has soooo..:) I am addicted to you hub! My father is helping me write my protest for re-determination because he "uses better words". Like I stated in my post 4 days ago, we were allowed 48hrs of unpaid absences. And I did receive a written warning here and there. Long story. But it was AFTER that, that I had the time of when I was in ER and had to have to CT scan. Which I have documentation for. They actually stated in my determination that I took took time for a scan..Anywaaay, Can they use the 48 hours in their re-determination or can they only use the 3 days after that against me..?

It is so very sad to read these posts especially when the company lies and gets away with it..I know why I was fired. It had nothing to do with absences. Why didn't they just fire me and tell me it was because it was personal? It is an At Will Employer! On that note, if by PURE LUCK they determine I am eligible can the company change their reasoning to something else? Gee, I can't wait to get a job interview and try to explain why I was fired! Thanks AGAIN!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

Slimgramma, the unemployment agency bases its determinations and redeterminations on a quick analysis of information furnished by the employer and the applicant. Quite a few mistakes are made. The next step is an in-person or telephone hearing before an administrative law judge. These are "de novo" hearings, meaning that the judge's decision is based on first hand, non-hearsay testimony under oath at the hearing. The judge will take into account the reasons for the absence or absences that resulted in your dismissal as well as any previous write-ups or discipline for unexcused absences. He should not take into account any absences due to illness or other unavoidable reasons. However, the greater the number of absences the tougher he or she is likely to be when deciding whether or not your absences amounted to misconduct. Most judges in Michigan don't put a lot of credence in automatic attendance point systems because they recognize that nearly everyone is absent occasionally for reasons beyond their control--e.g., illness (a doctor's note is helpful), having to take a sick child to the doctor, and so forth. They aren't impressed by frequent unverified excuses--e.g., the alarm didn't go off, or my car wouldn't start (once might work). Good luck.

slimgramma 4 months ago

Hi again. Ok, now I am a bit nervous. There is so much more to the story but thats niether here nor there.:) Now I think I want to speak with an advocate if possible before the phone hearing. I do know of atleast one phone hearing with another employee that was terminated for "swearing" which is comical because even the supervisors dropped the F-bomb. The issue is that 1. The plant manager enlisted his group of witnesses. One employee said she never even heard the gal "swear". And she TOLD him that. But during the phone interview she was made to lie. She later got laid off but after that she stated that he made her lie and she did because she was afraid of losing her job..Which she lost later anyway. This man is one of the most intimidating I have ever met. If anyone has complaints they usually keep it to themselves for fear of losing their job. I am kinda scared to death now only because of him. Because he is very good at turning things around and obviously lying..He won that case. In a "court setting" I wouldn't have an issue I believe because I would have an advocate. But over the phone..another story!

I call and call the number given on the UIA web page but can never get thru...Any suggestions?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

You could try going to one of the UIA's Problem Resolution Offices if there is one not too far from where you live. I've heard they have knowledgeable and helpful perople there.

PRO Locations:

Detroit - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-385, Detroit, MI 48202

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

Grand Rapids - 3391 Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

Mt. Clemens (temporary) - Macomb County DHS, 21885 Dunham Rd., Suite 7, Clinton Twp., MI 48036

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

Muskegon (temporary) - Muskegon County DHS, 2700 Baker St., Muskegon Heights, MI 49444

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

If you need help, please call one of our toll-free hotlines:

UNEMPLOYED WORKERS WITH QUESTIONS - If you are an unemployed worker with questions, please call one of our toll-free hotlines during the hours below:

Claims line, 1-866-500-0017

8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. weekdays

http://ralphdeeds.hubpages.com/hub/Unemployment_Co

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slimgramma 4 days ago

Hi Ralph!

I have spent over an hour reading all of the posts..Can't seem to find one "just like mine" so I have to bother you.:(

I just received my denial. According to them I was fired for too many absences. I won't even go into that joke! I plan to appeal. I did notice somwhere that it is not misconduct if you have a legitimate illness or something. We were allowed 48 hrs of unpaid absences. In Nov I had two. I went to ER with brochitis and sinusitis. Had a breathing treatment and xrays. A week later ER called and said that I had a nodule on one lung and it was very important to have a CT scan. He said 3 times that it could be cancer..(it wasn't). Anyway it took another week to get that scheduled. So on that date I took 3 hrs off for the scan and waited for the results. All in all it was a 3 in 30days which brought my last warning and supposidly got me fired. I didn't bring in a doctors note or stuff from the ER because I was a little too worried about my scan and had been told many times not to bother with dr.s slips because they wouldn.t help me. Anyway, I DO have to slips.

UIA states I was fired for excessive absences and was aware that if I took any days off I would exceed the 3 in 30 which is concidered misconduct. Now I wonder if I should appeal..Thanks!

Oh yes! And In my termination papers it states two more incidents that I was written up for which I don't agree with. But that wasn't mentioned in my denial..Can they use those for a later date?

Deny

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 days ago

Slimgramma, any administrative law judge worth his salt will not find that absences for documented illnesses are misconduct, regardless of the unfair employer rule or policy. Misconduct is too many instances of absence WITHOUT reasonable cause. Illness is a reasonable cause. That is the law in Michigan and I'm pretty sure in most other states as well.

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slimgramma 4 days ago

Well Mr. Deeds my first thought is to jump up and down. But being the pessamist that I am...lol If you knew what these people were like you would probably advice me to get a lawyer for a hostile work enviroment!:) Thank you for a quick response even on a weekend! You are such a help to all of us unemployed..Thanks!

Deny

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 days ago

sg, let us know whether my comment turned out to be correct. Good luck!

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LST 3 days ago

Hello Mr. Deeds

I have a question about my unemployment case and I would love your input/advice. I am sending in a letter for monetary redetermination. I was reading your responses about quitting a job and I know there's a gray area when it comes to resigning. Here's my story...I was employed with my job for 7yrs prior to resigning. My mother became very ill and was hospitalized, in the ICU, with a deadly illness for several weeks. I was told that once she returned home, she would need 24hr care. I originally had someone that would be able to take care of her when I was at work but, at the last minute they backed out. The stress of finding someone to take care of my mom started to affect my performance at work. I ask my supervisor for a leave of absence. She informed me b/c I was contingent, (not full-time or part-time) I would have to quit. After 90 days I attempted to get my job back, but my position was already filled. I spent months looking for a job. During this time I did not file for unemployment. Never having to file for unemployment, I did not know the process. I was under the assumption that you could not file unless you got fired or laid off. It was not until Feb 2011 I found out differently. I received my last paycheck Jan 2010. These are the issues involved in my case: sec 46 a, b, c (benefit yr) sec 27b1 (benefit rate, weekly), sec 32 (claim for benefits).

I am aware that I have no wages after Dec 2010. Are they able to go back to my last year of employment? I have copies of my pay checks for that year proving that I made sufficient funds for each quarterly base period. Also, can you explain Alternate Base Period and how it works?

Deny

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 days ago

LST, you have nothing to lose by filing, but if you're in Michigan where I've had experience the unemployment compensation statute and court decisions make it hard to collect benefits if you resign for reasons other than serious conditions attributable to your employer AFTER calling the condition to your employer's attention and giving them a chance to make a correction. The reasons include uncorrected work place safety or health hazards, significant reductions in pay or benefits, being instructed by your employer to do something dishonest. I wish I could be more encouraging. Good luck.

Here's a link to summaries of court decisions on the effect of resignation on elibibility for benefits. You may wish to review these summaries.

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

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LST 3 days ago

Thank you Mr. Deeds. I am in Michigan and I will take a look at the link.

Deny

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slimgramma 15 hours ago

Hi Mr. Deeds! I called you "Ralph" before but no one else has soooo..:) I am addicted to you hub! My father is helping me write my protest for re-determination because he "uses better words". Like I stated in my post 4 days ago, we were allowed 48hrs of unpaid absences. And I did receive a written warning here and there. Long story. But it was AFTER that, that I had the time of when I was in ER and had to have to CT scan. Which I have documentation for. They actually stated in my determination that I took took time for a scan..Anywaaay, Can they use the 48 hours in their re-determination or can they only use the 3 days after that against me..?

It is so very sad to read these posts especially when the company lies and gets away with it..I know why I was fired. It had nothing to do with absences. Why didn't they just fire me and tell me it was because it was personal? It is an At Will Employer! On that note, if by PURE LUCK they determine I am eligible can the company change their reasoning to something else? Gee, I can't wait to get a job interview and try to explain why I was fired! Thanks AGAIN!

Deny

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Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 15 hours ago

Slimgramma, the unemployment agency bases its determinations and redeterminations on a quick analysis of information furnished by the employer and the applicant. Quite a few mistakes are made. The next step is an in-person or telephone hearing before

Tracy 4 months ago

Hello Mr. Deeds,

I was fired from my job in August of 2011 for not being able to sign up, take and pass a state test within a twelve day time period. For this UIA said that I was at fault because I knew about the date for over a year and that I allowed my license to expire. The truth is that I was told(which I have a letter from my former employer with the date on it) about the date twelve days before and I did not have a license so therefore it did not expire. Also there are still two others working at this particular place that do not have a license and the one individual is back in school. My first question is should I send these two people a supeona, or would it damage my case to have them there as neither one of them like me but yet they were not given any type of deadline like I was? Also my case has been sent to the Michigan Compensation Appellate Commission for a review for a stay for the employer. The reasons that my former employer gave were 1) their key witness would have to take an entire half day off work 2) the court house does not have enough van handicapped accessible parking. My case has been setting at the MCAC since November 28, 2011 and there is nobody that can give me answers as to when they will be done with it and when it will be sent back to the judge. I have emailed and called the governor's office, the senator's office and my local representative's office, is there someone else that I can contact to get some answers and to get my case moving?

Thanks Tracy

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

Under the Michigan unemployment compensation rules neither employers nor claimants have to provide a reason in order to get a stay. There is nothing you can do about this. Unless the rules have changed recently the Appellate Commission will grant your employer a stay. In fact they will grant several stays before cracking down. Unfortunately some employers use stay requests to delay the process in the hope that their claimant will give up and go away.

Secondly, subpoenaing witnesses who are still employees usually isn't a good idea because having to testify puts them on the spot with their employer. This means that due to employer pressure or their fear of retribution they don't always testify truthfully. When I subpoena a witness I like to be sure of what their testimony is going to be ahead of time, i.e., helpful to your case. I like to tell them what questions I'm going to ask them and find out what their answers are going to be. About the best you can do is that your advocate can skillfully cross-examine the employer's witness(es) and hope they are truthful. Sorry I'm not able to be more helpful. If passing a state test and obtaining a license is a legal requirement of your job you may not have an easy time. There are cases when taxi drivers or truck drivers lose their licenses and are fired they aren't eligible for benefits. On the other hand your employer's action doesn't appear to me to have been fair to you. A decent employer would have given you a second chance to take the test, in my opinion. If you think of it please let us know how your case turns out. Good luck.

Slava 4 months ago

Ralph, I hope all is well. I'm on unemployment and in the final stages of the interview process for a potential position with the same job title as my previous. The pay mentioned in the early stages of the interview process was considerably less than the amount made in my previous position (mainly probably because it involves less responsibility). I'm hoping that I'm chosen and offered something reasonable. One of the questions in the handbook asks if the claimant failed to accept any job offer. Will I forfeit unemployment benefits if I fail to accept the job offer based on a wage that is not comparable to my last? I would like to see what my options are before either failing or accepting the potential job offer because I doubt they will be able to get into the ball park of my previous earnings based on the earlier mentioned wage. Thanks.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 months ago

Whether or not your would be disqualified depends on how much lower the salary and benefits would be and whether or not someone (previous employer) finds out that you declined an offer and reports it to the Unemployment Agency. I don't believe you are obligated to report it. The longer you draw unemployment benefits the greater the expectation of the Unemployment Agency for you to accept a reduction in wages.

Slava 4 months ago

Thanks.

Tracy 4 months ago

Thank you for your advice, much appreciated.

giantonts 3 months ago

Hi Ralph

I stumbled upon this page after trying to find an answer to my question,never did so i am hoping you can be of great assistance. I worked at job for a month and left due to the chemicals i was working with bothered my stomach(health issues) and one month later started collecting unemployment , i got a letter in the mail stating that i failed to report that job, which is true ,must have slipped my mind. They now want a letter stating why "i quit" and "why i failed to report that job". The man i spoke to said that he has 50 guidelines in which he has to follow and if my reason fall under his guidelines the i get a slap on the wrist and to make sure it doesn't happen again.I would really appreciate your assistance as to an idea of what i should put that would fall under the guidelines as to why i failed to report?

Thank you

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 months ago

Provide any medical evidence (doctor's statements or any other evidence) to support your reason for quitting. Tell the truth about why you neglected to report the job and why you quit. The basic rule on quitting is that if you quit a job without a good reason attributable to the employer and without discussing the issue with the employer and giving him the opportunity to respond you are not eligible for unemployment compensation. The judge will ask you whether or not you discussed with your employer your reaction to the chemicals or not. If you didn't discuss this with your employer you are likely to be disqualified from benefits.

Ben 3 months ago

I recently lost my job due to absenteeism. We have the point system at my previous job and I missed too many consecutive days which pushed me over the 8 point termination limit. The reason I was absent and caused me to point out was because I was in jail. I made every effort not to lose my job. I even used my phone call to call off work. My missing work was outside of my control but I still got denied for unemployment. Should I appeal? What do you think about this?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 months ago

Predicting the outcome of an appeal is impossible without reading the case file and knowing all the facts. However, in my opinion, an appeal would definitely be in your interest. Here is a Michigan case that supports your eligibility:

MISCONDUCT DISCHARGE, Absence without notice, Incarceration

CITE AS: Jones v Hackley Hospital, No. 83-17596 AE, Muskegon Circuit Court (October 2, 1984).

Appeal pending: No

Claimant: Willie Jones, Jr.

Employer: Hackley Hospital

Docket No: B82 13563 RO1 86935W

CIRCUIT COURT HOLDING: Inability to get to work because of involuntary incarceration does not constitute wilful or wanton misconduct connected with the work.

FACTS: The claimant worked for the employer as a janitor. He was discharged after being absent for three consecutive days without notice to the employer. The claimant was under the constraints of a work release program from the County Jail. His work release privileges were revoked as a result of a complaint filed by his wife. The revocation of the work release privileges prevented the claimant from reporting to work.

DECISION: The claimant is not disqualified for misconduct discharge.

RATIONALE: "To hold that plaintiff's [claimant's] involuntary incarceration constituted misconduct connected with his employment would result in this court agreeing that wilfulness was present, where subject was held against his will, an interesting but illogical proposition. It is only reasonable to conclude that the word 'connected' as used in the legislative act, was intended to make a distinction between misconduct with reference to an individual's private life and misconduct arising during and related to his employment."

The claimant lost his work release privileges under circumstances which might have been completely beyond his control. "The reason behind the revocation of his work release did not have the slightest connection with his employment."

6/91

Moreover, most judges in Michigan don't put a lot of credence for determining eligibilty for benefits in automatic point systems which don't take into account why an employee is absent or tardy. Absences, per se, aren't misconduct. To establish misconduct an employer must take into account the reasons for absence. Also, the judge's decision would likely be influenced by your overall attendance, disciplinary and employment record aside from the incarceration incident.

Ben 3 months ago

How long does the whole appeal process usually take? I really need the money to pay bills.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 months ago

The answer depends on how you define the "whole appeal process." Here are the steps-

1. Apply for benefits

2. Determination--one month or less (appeal within 30 days)

3. Re-determination --one month or less, appeal within 30 days

4. Hearing before an Administrative Law Judge--the wait for a hearing to be scheduled can take from 1-2 months. The judges issue a written decision within two weeks, appeal within 30 days to Appellate Commission.

5. Depending on the backlog and the issues in the case the Commission may take a month to several months to issue a decision.

Beyond the above cases may be appealed to a circuit court, to an appellate courts, to the Michigan Supreme Court and to federal appeals courts all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. (Few cases go beyond the appellate commission or circuit courts.)

slimgramma 3 months ago

Hi again Ralph:)

I was just reading your last posts and I caught something I wasn't aware of. At the end of your comment to Ben, you wrote that:

The judges decision would likely be influenced by your overall attendance, disciplinary and employment record aside from the incarceration incident.

I have nothing bad on my record except the absence issues which I think are nuts. But my question is why would any past issues come into the whole thing when we were fired for absences? And just as an example, if you were hired to work 40 hrs per week at 52 weeks per year and you end up working 95-100 hours over that how can they consider you to be absent too many times? Just calculating..:) Still just waiting for my re-determination..

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Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 months ago

Well, most judges will say that an employer is entitled to expect its employees to be at work on time for their scheduled work, including reasonable amounts of overtime unless they have compelling reasons for being absent or late--illness of self or other family member, automobile accidents, attendance at a funeral of a close relative, after requesting to be excused. The burden of proving misconduct is ordinarily on the employer, except it shifts to the employee when he or she has been absent or late frequently. In the case above the employee was absent due to being in jail. In deciding his case the judge is likely to consider his previous attendance record. If he had a good attendance record he has a good chance of getting a decision in his favor, if not his chances are less favorable. At least that's my experience.

Newbie 3 months ago

Hello Mr. Deeds

I was pleased to find your blog and info, especially that you were in michigan where I am writing from.

I am a new employer 3yrs now, with no firings or layoffs. We had a model employe who felt her christmas bonus of $175 was an insult and was expecting $500. She did put in her verbal resignation one day before Christmas eve (our last day for the year) as we are a small business with 2 part time employees, this was a shock and a blow to us. My wife who runs the day to day of the business pleaded with the employee to give her a chance to figure something out " emotional based I admit". After she explained what happended to me, I was not so emotional about this as I have experience in manging people. After we had time to think about this we decided this was an attempt to hold us hostage for more money and we were not going to play this game.

The employee did work the last day of the year for us. We we returned to work for the new year my wife accepted here resignation and ties were then severed.

The employee claimed she was fired. We appealed and explained the above. The determination was there was conflicting info but the determination was she was fired an eligible for benefits.

1st I would like to know does one employee receiving benefits affect my Tax rate

2nd Is it worth fighting this for the principal of she resigned and wasnt fired.

Thanks

Newbie

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 months ago

1. Yes, your ex-employee's collecting benefits will affect your unemployment insurance tax rate. I'm not sure how this is calculated, but the effect is likely to be significant, depending on how long she collects benefits.

2, It doesn't cost anything for you to request a redetermination and, if you have already received a redetermination, it doesn't cost anything to request a hearing before an administrative law judge. The UIA will provide an advocate to assist you in preparing for the hearing and represent you before the ALJ. It sounds to me as if the ALJ's decision will depend on whose testimony he finds more credible.

agapegeart 3 months ago

Hi Mr. Deeds,

Not sure if you remember me. My case involved misclassification by my former employer who claimed I was an independent contractor. I had the ALJ hearing at which time the judge remanded my case back to the UIA for a field audit to clarify my status.

Today I received a determination from the UIA which states that "Based on a field audit review, the Agency concludes that the services performed by (My Name) ARE covered 'employment' as defined under Section 42 (5) of the MES Act and remuneration earned in payment for the employment is wages under Section 44 (1) of the MES Act."

Of course there is the Right to Protest paragraph at the end of the letter, but I don't expect the outcome to be any different if she does protest. And yes, I have been certifying with MARVIN all along.

I called the number on the letter and was told that I would be contacted by the benefits department.

My question to you is, what should I expect to have happen next? Given that the former employer never bothered to pay unemployment taxes, will I start receiving benefits and the state will bill her for the unpaid amount or what? It's been seven long months with no income and the bank is foreclosing on my home. I'd like to be able to tell them that I will be getting some relief from UIA in the near future in order to avert this. At the ALJ hearing my advocate told me I was "screwed" because the former employer failed to pay unemployment taxes. Again, what should I expect?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 months ago

I'm not sure of the answer, but I'm pretty sure you should start receiving benefits for any week for which you certified that you were unemployed and seeking work. You could take your paper work to one of the agency's Problem Resolutions Offices and talk face-to-face with a live human being. Unless there is an issue between you and your former employer, over the circumstances of your termination, i.e., if your employer acknowledges that you were laid off, you should receive benefits for the entire period since you were laid off, provided you continued to certify by calling MARVIN in accordance with agency procedures.

Here's a list of the Problem Resolution Offices:

PRO Locations:

Detroit - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-385, Detroit, MI 48202

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

Grand Rapids - 3391 Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

Mt. Clemens (temporary) - Macomb County DHS, 21885 Dunham Rd., Suite 7, Clinton Twp., MI 48036

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

Muskegon (temporary) - Muskegon County DHS, 2700 Baker St., Muskegon Heights, MI 49444

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

If you need help, please call one of our toll-free hotlines:

UNEMPLOYED WORKERS WITH QUESTIONS - If you are an unemployed worker with questions, please call one of our toll-free hotlines during the hours below:

Claims line, 1-866-500-0017

8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. weekdays

LST 3 months ago

Hello Mr. Deeds

My case is up for redetermination for the second or third time, I've lost count. They have given me an option for the board of review to look at my case or the judge. My question to you is which one should I choose? Which one would be in my best interest?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 months ago

It's hard for me to answer your question based on what you've told me. Ordinarily, you have to have a hearing before an administrative law judge before appealing to the Appellate Commission in Lansing. Ordinarily there is a "determination," a "redetermination," an ALJ hearing, and then an appeal to the Appellate Commission. I would think it would be to your advantage to put your case on the record before an Administrative Law Judge. Maybe you've already done that??

LST 3 months ago

Yes I already did that. I did that last month. What is an ALJ hearing?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 months ago

ALJ=Administative Law Judge. Okay, I understand now. You are trying to decide whether to take your case to the Appellate Commission or directly to a Circuit Court. Well, most people go to the Appellate Commission (formerly the Board of Review) before going to the Circuit Court. Most people hire a lawyer to take their case to the circuit court although the clerk of the court can explain the procedures for representing yourself (pro se). Which would offer the best chance might depend on how much sympathy the circuit court judge has for someone in your situation. If you think you might get a sympathetic judge it might be easier in court to get a favorable decision without taking it to the Appellate Commission, losing, and then having to get the circuit court to reverse the Appellate Commission's decision.

Jo 3 months ago

LST, ALJ is "Administrative Law Judge".

Ralph, I have a question similar to K. Smith's; I voluntarily quit my position because there were ethical concerns at my Michigan-based firm (financial firm basically stealing money). I was denied benefits, protested, and received an affirmation of the initial determination.

I'm terrified of trying to make a case in front of a judge, as I've never been in court before, and I'm actually starting a new job at the end of the month. I'm not sure whether I should even bother with an appeal. Should I?

Thank you.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 months ago

Jo, It doesn't cost anything to appeal your case to an Administrative Law Judge. The agency will pay for an advocate to assist you. However, the law isn't kind to people who resign. In brief, it says that a reasonable person will find another job before quitting the one they have UNLESS there is a compelling reason attributable to the employer which would cause a reasonable person to resign AND the employee complained about the issue and gave the employer an opportunity to correct the problem. Being asked to do something dishonest should be found by a judge to be "good cause attributable to the employer" for quitting depending on the facts of the situation, i.e., how egregious the dishonesty was. Could be a gray area. On the other hand there is considerable awareness these days about shoddy practices in the banking and mortgage industry. The burden will be on you to convince the judge that the practices you encountered were clearly dishonest and or illegal.

Jo 3 months ago

Thanks, Ralph. I won't be going through with the appeal.

kenn 3 months ago

Hello,

I have been dealing with UIA overpayment issues for two years now, they ruled that I did nothing fraudulent but they want me to pay them back, I cannot because I do not make enough money, wht will the UIA do if I cannot pay it back?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 3 months ago

My understanding is that the UIA will take 20% of any future unemployment benefits for which you may become eligible and they will grab any Michigan income tax refunds for which you may become eligible. As you probably know by now they will try to get you to agree to an "easy payment plan." I haven't heard of them turning claimants in your situation over to a bill collector. It would be unwise, in my opinion, for you to withdraw any funds you may have in a 401k or IRA in order to repay the UIA. I understand that under Governor Snyder the UIA is following the example of the NY Banksters and charging interest on unpaid restitution amounts.

BLK 2 months ago

Michigan

Hi Mr. Deeds

I have received benefits for the past 5 years and now the UIA has made a determination that I should not have been given benefits and must pay it all back. Reason is that I am the sole member of an LLC family business. When I first filed for benefits I talked to someone at UIA and told them this and they said I would receive less benefits because it was family business. Every new claim since I always marked family business when the question was asked. In the notice of determination they state "Your actions are considered to have been unintentional because there are no facts to establish that you intentionally withheld information to obtain benefits." also "Reason for overpayment does not come within the criteria for waiver." 1)The UIA originally determined that I was eligible. 2) MESA Sec. 62 States that the commission shall not recover improperly paid benefits more than 3 years after the date of receipt if fraud was not involved. 3) On the website Michigan.gov it states that "The law gives the UIA authority to forgive restitution under certain circumstances, where to collect restitution would be contrary to equity and good conscience (not sure what this means) and the improper payment was not the fault of the unemployed worker." 4) I do not have any money to repay what they are asking. 5) Notice of determination also states "If repayment will cause extraordinary hardship you may request a waiver due to financial status. What is considered an extraordinary hardship? Based on the above information what should be included in my request for redetermination and is there any possibility of getting some or all waived.

Thanks!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 months ago

You may wish to read the summaries of court decisions some of which deal with restitution linked here:

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/ham/mes/digest/mes_dig

Here's what the Unemployment Agency's Advocacy bulletin has to say about restitution:

What the law says: This issue is covered by Section 62(a) of the Michigan Employment Security Act. The law says that if a claimant for unemployment benefits receives a benefit payment to which he or she is not entitled, the claimant must repay to the UA the improperly paid amount.

The restitution, or repayment, may be paid to the Agency in cash, or it can be deducted from future benefit payments, but not more than 20% of any benefit payment can be used to pay back restitution...The restitution can also be collected by intercepting the claimant's state income tax refund.

However, the UA cannot collect restitution more than three years after the improper payment unless fraud was involved in the improper payment unless fraud was involved in the improper payment, or the agency files a lawsuit within the three years, or the Agency issues a determination to the claimant within the three years notifying the claimant about the restitution.

The law give the Agency authority to forgive restitution under certain circumstances, where to collect restitution would be contrary to equity and good conscience and the improper payment was not the fault of the claimant.

What Agency Guidelines say: The Agency can forgive repayment or restitution when the incorrect payment was due to the Agency's in calculating the benefit payment; or when the error occurred because the employer failed to provide the Agency with requested information or provided incorrect information; or WHEN THE CLAIMANT HAS A LOW HOUSEHOLD INCOME AND REPAYING THE AMOUNT WOULD CAUSE THE CLAIMANT EXTREME FINANCIAL HARDSHIP....

Proof at the hearing: the Agency would have to prove that benefits were overpaid. The claimant could deny the payments were overpayments, or could disagree with the Agency's refusal to forgive repayment (that is, could prove that the UA abused its discretion when it denied forgiveness of collection of restitution.)

My understanding is that you could within the 30-day time limit appeal the Agency's decision not to forgive restitution. Further, my understanding is that the Agency does not garnish wages or bank accounts or attach liens to property in order to obtain restitution. You could argue that the error was the Agency's, not yours and that restitution would be a severe hardship on you and your family. I'll take a look at the court cases to see if there is anything helpful.

Let us know the result. Good luck.

agapegeart 2 months ago

Hello again Mr. Deeds,

Just wanted to give you the results of my unemployment benefits battle w/ my former employer. I am the claimant who was improperly classified as an independent contractor by my former employer and the UIA field audit determined that I was in fact an employee and am entitled to benefits under the law. It took over 7 months but finally late last week I received all my retroactive benefits--about $10k. In addition, I filed a complaint with the Wage and Hour Division and received a phone call today from a very nice man from that department informing me that my former employer essentially was tired of dealing with it all and she submitted a check for 3 year's worth of unpaid overtime--to the tune of about $8k.

Just a word to all the claimants who follow your postings: Hang in there, keep certifying, know the law and all your rights under it and the UIA will eventually come through. Lots of hoops to jump through but never give up if you know you're in the right.

I have yet to file my taxes but I intend to file an SS-8 this year and hopefully I'll be 3 for 3.

Thanks for all your advice, Mr. Deeds. I finally feel vindicated and that the law really works.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 months ago

That's great news! Thanks for sharing.

slimgramma 2 months ago

Hi Mr. Deeds!

I too wanted to let you know the outcome of MY appeal! Filed my first clain Dec 14th. Today, March 8th I finally won my appeal and received my back unemployment! I think I may just frame the letter from UIA! Thankyou so much for all of your help and support!

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 months ago

Thanks for letting us know the good news!

Joe 2 months ago

Ralph, Hello. I received my Unemployment Benefit Debit card. Does that mean I was approved?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 months ago

Yes. However, your employer may still have the right to protest your eligibility depending on the circumstances of your termination. Good luck.

Joe 2 months ago

Thank you!

Samara 2 months ago

Hello Mr. Deeds I was told by a friend that you are a very helpful person for people that feel lost in the unemployment web. My story I'm sure seems odd but please try to help because I'm at a total loss. I had been on unemployment for a year then I was told I had to re apply so I did and everything went fine so I thought. During our call I told the agent that I had wages during the beginning of my claim which I did report and when she asked me what happened with that job I told her I was fired because they couldn't hold open my job while I went to a funeral. I got a letter in the mail very quick that my claim was approved because the employer validated what I said but since it was less money than what I was getting on my old claim we canceled it and I was to continue on my old claim. A week later I received a letter in the mail for possible fraud because during the time that I was let go I certified that I did not quit my job I did not accept any job offer and I did not get fired. Now here is where I'm stuck when I certified I was 100% honest I did not get fired from the temp service I was just told that the company that I was assigned to did not need my services but they would help me find other work when it came in. It was a complete case of miscommunication on my part to the rep that I spoke with but I did not know any other way to explain it to her because I didn't quit, there wasn't a lack of work ect so the only other way I could put it was I was let go of. What do I do they have to know I'm still employed with the temp service based of the letter they got back I'm at a total loss I can't sleep I'm scared to death because I don't know how to prove this to them. Please help thank you in advance for any information you can give me.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 months ago

1. Request a redetermination or a hearing before an administrative law judge within the 30-day time limit.

2. Continue to certify by calling MARVIN in accordance with UIA procedures. Even if you prevail in your appeal you will not get benefits for any period for which you did not certify that you were unemployed and seeking work.

3. Go to the nearest UIA "Problem Resolution Office and discuss your case face-to-face with a real, live human. I've heard that the people in the PROs are knowledgeable and helpful, particularly in complicated cases like yours. Here's a link to the UIA PRO site:

http://www.michigan.gov/uia/0,1607,7-118--78925--,

PRO Locations:

Detroit - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-385, Detroit, MI 48202

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

Grand Rapids - 3391 Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

Mt. Clemens (temporary) - Macomb County DHS, 21885 Dunham Rd., Suite 7, Clinton Twp., MI 48036

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

Muskegon (temporary) - Muskegon County DHS, 2700 Baker St., Muskegon Heights, MI 49444

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

Sorry I'm not able to provide a better answer to your situation. Good luck!

bosco1robert 2 months ago

Mr. Deeds i hope you can help me because im very new to this and have a few questions i cant get a firm answer on. i have not filed for unemployment yet and was laid off late jan. after 32 yrs. in mich. i still had 4 wks vacation comming, and the owner hierd me to sorta be a caretaker on a 1099. its only like 3 hts a week. was this a bad thing to do on my part ? also do i have to sign up in a certain amount of time ? and if i sign up next week, how many weeks, with federal exts. would i be able to collect ? im over 57 and have a 401K i could tap into till im 62

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 months ago

Robert, my recommendation is that you file for unemployment compensation starting after your 4 weeks vacation pay ran out. Actually, if you received the vacation pay in one lump sum you are disqualified only for the week in which you received the check. Once you have filed for unemployment benefits you will be instructed to certify that you are unemployed and seeking work and report any earnings you received during the weeks for which you are certifying. The amount of your benefit will be adjusted by the amount of earnings you received during the certification period. It's very important that you follow the Agency's instructions to the letter. If you have a problem it would be worthwhile for you to go to the nearest unemployment agency "Problem Resolution Office" and discuss any questions or issues you have face-to-face with an agency representative. You probably will get better results that way than over the telephone. Here are the locations of the PRO offices.

PRO Locations:

Detroit - 3024 W. Grand Blvd., Suite L-385, Detroit, MI 48202

Gaylord - 400 W. Main St., Suite 102, Gaylord, MI 49735

Grand Rapids - 3391 Plainfield NE, Grand Rapids, MI 49525

Lansing - 5015 S. Cedar St., Lansing, MI 48910

Mt. Clemens (temporary) - Macomb County DHS, 21885 Dunham Rd., Suite 7, Clinton Twp., MI 48036

Marquette - 2833 U.S. 41 West, Marquette, MI 49855

Muskegon (temporary) - Muskegon County DHS, 2700 Baker St., Muskegon Heights, MI 49444

Saginaw - 614 Johnson St., Saginaw, MI 48607

londongirl 2 months ago

good day to you Ralph,

my husband was unemployed for the whole of 2011 and the last four months of 2010. DMC fought his claim because he was fired, eventually he got his claim. at the time i got ill, we got evicted had to move. he also signed a waiver that said he was attending college. now because of our eviction , my surgery, moving our car going ka put he was unable to complete his study. for the whole of last year he looked for work, certifed got his check . then in september we recieved a letter asking us why he didnt complete. my husband didnt complete the form and evidence on time. however in December i sent it in explaining why it couldnt be sent on time ( ie we moved, papers were everywhere) our request was denied this week, now we have to pay 14 thousand dollars back. i'm going to ask for a redetermination, because no fraud was involved, but i'm not sure what exactly to say in the letter asking for a hearing with an ALJ. and how do i get the judge to even consider the case without him just throwing the case out, this is real hardship for us we are really struggling here. plus with this BS determination they take all your tax refund. help please.

thanks for your reply

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 months ago

All you have to say is that you request a hearing before an ALJ because you disagree with the determination. The ALJ hearings are "de novo" meaining the decision is based on evidence and testimony presented at the hearing. Make sure you get your appeal in on time and hope for a sympathetic judge. And continue to certify by calling MARVIN until your case is settled.

londongirl 2 months ago

thank you for your reply Ralph i appreciate it. we are doing that this week and i'll let you know how it goes.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 2 months ago

Good luck.

Bobso I went back on my extinsion 6 weeks ago

Hello MR.Deeds I had a few friends tell me your the go to guy for help with unemployment.Long story short I just got a letter that I have a hearing with M.Grant in 10 days.I guess my last employer filed and it skipped re determination and went right to a hearing.The thing I'm floored by is the claim they are protesting is not even the one I'm collecting on that claim was denied for not having made enough money so I went back to my extension.I have no Idea what I'm walking into or why this even happening can you tell me what happens in a hearing and what to expect what proof do I get together anything that will help please I'm so scared I have just 10 day to figure this out.

Andrea 6 weeks ago

Hey Mr.Deeds I'm not very good with words like others on here so I'm going to try to give you as much info as I can.I have a phone hearing to go to and I know everything looks real bad and I dont know what to do or how to make the judge know I'm telling the truth.I called in back in sept 2011 to ask about reporting my work the lady told me if I'm not full time hired in dont report or I will lose my benifits I didn't understand her so I let my friend get on and she told him the same thing.Now its time to redo my claim and I'm being looked at for fraud because I didnt report income for three weeks.I just did what I was told now I might go to jail please help me I know I dont have a chance because so many people do this all the time and they are going to think I did it to even now I sick thinking about this I'm so confused.My other thing I wounder about is if I get one of the people that unemployment gives us to rep us do they talk for me?I know I will mess up if I talk for my self because I don't always know the right words or things to say.My last question is worst outcome being they say I have to pay back and go to jail would it be all 35 weeks or just the 3 weeks I didnt report.I do think I should have to pay back the three weeks dont get me wrong I thought that when I spoke to the lady but I trust that the reps wont give wrong info like this.Any help and info you can give me about this matter would mean so much thank you

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 weeks ago

Bobso, without knowing more about your case it's hard to advise you other than to recommend that you should sign up with an advocate to assist you at the hearing. You will receive a list of advocates from the Unemployment Agency a week or so before the hearing. An hour is allotted for each hearing. You and the employer witnesses will have an opportunity to testify under oath. The hearings are tape recorded in case either party appeals to the Appellate Commission in Lansing. You should bring copies of all pertinent documents to the hearing, and make sure you get there on time or preferably a few minutes early to discuss any loose ends with your advocate. Your testimony will be in the form of your answers to questions from your advocate and from the judge. Tell the truth and hope for the best. Good luck.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 6 weeks ago

Andrea, you asked quite a few questions. It's hard to advise you without knowing more about your case. First, Although the law provides for criminal penalties for fraud my impression is that these penalties are rarely invoked. Failure to report earnings is considered a serious matter and as you have been informed can result in having to make triple restitution for the benefits received as a result of intentional fraud/failure to report earnings. Based on what you have said your best chance would be to convince the judge that your failure to report earnings was NOT INTENTIONAL and resulted from a misunderstanding on your part, if that is the truth.

You will be required to testify under oath at the hearing in response to questions from your advocate and the judge. It will be to your benefit to obtain an advocate to assist you in preparing for the hearing and in your testimony at the hearing. You should receive a list from the unemployment agency of advocates available to assist you without charge. Good luck.

Andrea 6 weeks ago

Thank you Mr.Deeds for your quick reply back I don't know 100% sure fraud is the reason but thats the only thing I know I did and the paper that I got has a 366-6660 number as my employer number and thats a wage company and the reasons my paper list are 29(1)(a) I was not discharged for mis conduct with work voluntary leaving my apply.20(a) credit employer 62(a)restitution may apply 32a(1).I dont understand what I'm being charged with there is no real issue on here.Also I read online that if its fraud it gets mailed out 20 day early and thats how mine got mailed out.Also what would I have to pay back all of the weeks I collected or just the weeks I did not report my income?And would it help to bring the other person that spoke to the rep also?Thank you again for all your help

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 weeks ago

Andrea, my understanding is that you would obligated to repay only the for which you failed to report income. If the judge decides your failure to report the earnings was intentional you will be required to repay triple the benefits for the weeks you failed to report earnings. The repayments may be made by a 20% deduction from future benefits, by a direct payment (one payment or by instalments) or by taking any future Michigan income tax refunds for which you may become eligible. And, yes, it might be helpful for your friend to come to the hearing and testify as to what the Agency rep said. It would be very helpful if you can convince the judge that you were following the instruections, as you understood them, of the Agency rep to whom you spoke.

Andrea 5 weeks ago

Thank you so much for all your help I'm trying to get phone records and everything together too I just pray that the judge will be understanding but with so many people trying to scam things I just know its going to be hard for the judge to think of me any diffrent but all I can do is be honest.Also with the info that was on my paper the 20(a) 62(a) and the 32a(1) does that mean thats what I'm being charged with?

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 weeks ago

It's not exactly accurate to say that you are being "charged" with anything. Those are the paragraphs of the unemployment compensation statute which define the issues which may be discussed at the hearing which will determine your eligibility for benefits and whether or not you will be required to repay any of the benefits which you have received. It's not clear to me whether the hearing was requested by you, by your former employer or by the unemployment agency. Have you received a notice from the agency stating that you are obligated to repay benefits that you received?

Andrea 5 weeks ago

I got a notice that manpower is the one requesting the hearing and the issues are 20(a) 62(a) and 32a(1).I never got any notice that says I have to repay anything back but when I typed in the number for the employer it came up as a wage/hour worked service you can google it if you want 800-366-6660.My claim is not even including the time I worked at manpower.I dont really have a clue thats the only thing I can come up with.Well and the fact that uia website says if its a hearing for fraud they will mail the letter out 20 days in advance.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 weeks ago

I might be able to better understand your case if you provided the wording of the agency's determination, redetermination and the "Issues" at the bottom of the Notice of Hearing.

Andrea 5 weeks ago

Here is what it says Notice of Hearing Appellant:Employer

Issues involved:Determination

sec 29(1)(b) claimant is not disqualified as a result of a discharge for misconduct connected with work

Section 29(1)(a) Voluntary leaving may apply parties aare to fax any documents received by or submitted to the agency to the hearing

Section 20(a) credit to employer may apply

Section 62(a) restitution/improper payments may apply

Sec 32(1) appeal has by passed redetermination & is being sent directly to hearing from determination

The thing I don't understand is the manpower claim was not approved I have the letter I went back on my euc claim.And the other thing that is throwing me off is for the employer contact number it list a wage reporting company.If it was for the wages wouldn't they list that in my reasons for the hearing??I really want to thank you for your fast reply and for going out of your way to help me...Bless you and your Family Ralph

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 weeks ago

It appears to me that your former employer is appealing your eligibility, claiming you were fired for misconduct (which is defined in the law as intentional disregard of your employer's interest which can be one serious offense or repeated minor offenses after warnings.) I don't see where failure to report earnings or fraud comes into the picture. As I recommended, sign up an advocate and follow his or her advice.

Andrea 5 weeks ago

So I called today and what I was told is they are saying it was job abandenment.I asked the uia rep if they can even file that because they are not on my claim and she said yes anyone can file against you at anytime for any reason which I dont understand.Also I'm like how do I prove that I moved to take of my father who is ill and cant take of himself.I gave them notice and they said they understood but the company they sent me to was not willing to hold my job.I know I dont have a chance I just wanted to come and let you know what I found out and thank you for everything.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 weeks ago

Well, Section 29(1)(a) Voluntary Leaving covers resignations, quits and "job abandonment." An employee who resigns is not eligible for unemployment benefits unless there is "good cause attributable to the employer" for example, asking the employee to do something unlawful or immoral or work in unsafe conditions. The law won't help you if you quit to take care of your father which is admirable but not a reason attributable to your employer. Sorry I'm not able to be more optimistic.

Lillyana 5 weeks ago

Hello Ralph,

I have been going through your list of questions to try and find one close to mine but can not,so here goes...I quit my job to move 40 miles away because I lost my home,I don't have a drivers license to be able to get to and from work I let my job know however they were not willing to work with me.I have to be at a hearing next week,one I have no way to get there so I was woundering if they work with people in my situation and two if you think I even have a chance.I know everyone says if you quit your not going to get anything but do they take time to look and see sometimes people have no other options? Thank you for any help you can give me.

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 5 weeks ago

Lilyana, If you have no way to get to the hearing you can call the judge's office and request a telephone hearing. However, I don't think your chances are good for the judge finding you eligible for benefits. With few exceptions when you quit your job, unless there is a good reason attributable to the employer, or you requested a family leave for child birth and were refused, you are not eligible for benefits. Sorry I'm not able to give you a more optimistic answer.

Mark 4 weeks ago

Mr.Deeds

I won't take all your time up with my story I'll cut right to it my employer told me I could take sometime off work and while I was on break I was called and told my services were no longer needed so I got my unemployment started now after all these months we are going to a hearing they are saying I just never came back how or what can I do to prove I am telling the truth?Everyone I've talked to said I have no chance that the hearings are always in the employer favor.I got a paper in the mail that they got one of the same people who rep us in the hearing to rep them as well I thought they would have their own lawyer???What can I do to help myself here???

Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds Hub Author 4 weeks ago

1. It's not true that the hearings always are in the employer's favor. Judges rule fairly often in favor of claimants.

2. If you are in Michigan it will be to your advantage to use the Agency's Advocacy Program and get an advocate to assist you in preparing for the hearing and in your testimony at the hearing.

3. All you can do is look the judge in the eye and answer your advocate's and the judge's questions truthfully.

4. It sounds to me like you were laid off and should be entitled to benefits. It would be helpful if you can recall the date, time and name of the person who told you your services were no longer needed.

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