Haditha Massacre of Iraqi Civilians
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Massacre at Haditha
A front page article in the December 15, 2011, NY Times about the massacre of 24 civilians on November 19, 2005, in Haditha by U.S. Marines did not make me proud to be an American. Despite the horrific killings of civilians, including children between ages 3 and 16, some in their homes, and a 76-year-old man in a wheel chair, no one has been convicted of misconduct. Charges against six marines were dropped; one was acquitted and staff sergeant Frank Wutterich is scheduled for trial next year.
The NY Times article was prompted by the discovery by a Times reporter of 400 pages of secret documents from the Marines' internal investigation of the Haditha massacre investigation in a junkyard outside Baghdad where an attendant was burning them to cook a meal. The transcripts of the testimony revealed that civilian casualties were common and regarded as unremarkable and "routine" by Marine commanders. Major General Steve Johnson commander of the Marines in Anbar testified that frequent civilian casualties were "a cost of doing business." According to the Times article, "Troops, traumatized by the rising violence and feeling constantly under siege, grew increasingly twitchy, killing more and more civilians in accidental encounters. Others became so desensitized and inured to the killing that they fired on Iraqi civilians deliberately while their fellow soldiers took pictures and were court-martialed."
"We had one where Marines had photographed themselves taking shots at people," Col R. Kelly testified saying that they immediately called the Naval Criminal Investigative Services and "confiscated their little camera."
Marine Colonel Barry Johnson, a spokesman for the U.S. military in Iraq, said that many of the documents from the Haditha investigation remained classified and should have been destroyed. "Despite the way in which they were improperly discarded and came into your (NY Times) possession, we are not at liberty to discuss classified information," he said, adding "We take any breach of classified information as an extremely serious matter." What abouit the killing of 22 civilians?
The high incidence of civilians killed by members of the U.S. military no doubt contributed to the Iraq' government's refusal to grant immunity to prosecution for U.S. troops in Iraq and the celibratory mood of Iraqi citizens over the U.S. troop pullout.
The Haditha massacre and the Marine Corps' apparent failure to deal with its perpetrators brings to mind our failure to punish Lt. Calley and 25 other U.S. soldiers for their role in the massacre of more than 300 civilian My Lai villagers in Vietnam. Calley was convicted and initially sentenced to life for personally killing 22 villagers, but was released after serving three plus years under house arrest. Charges against the other twenty-five soldiers were dropped.
3-11-12NYTimes--U.S. Army Sergeant Methodically Slaughtered 16 Afghanistan Civilians Including 6 Children
- U.S. Sergeant Kills 16 Afghan Civilians, 9 of Them Children - NYTimes.com
A United States service member methodically killed at least 16 civilians, 9 of them children, in southern Afghanistan early Sunday, igniting fears of a new wave of anti-American hostility, officials said.
3-11-12NYTimes--A Massacre of Afghan Civillians by Apparently Berserk U.S. Soldier
- American Is Held After Shooting of Civilians in Afghanistan - NYTimes.com
A U.S. service member walked out of a military base on Sunday and opened fire on three nearby houses, killing 16 civilians, including several children, local villagers and provincial officials said.
2-12-12AlterNet--"Why Was No One Punished for America's 'MyLai' in Iraq?"
- Why Was No One Punished for America\'s "My Lai" in Iraq? | | AlterNet
The U.S. military presence in Iraq was marked by the callous American attitude toward civilians, and the thorough lack of accountability in the military justice system.
1-25-11HuffingtonPost--Wuterich Let off With a Slap on the Wrist
- Haditha Killings: Frank Wuterich, Convicted Of Killing Iraqi Citizens, Escapes Jail Time
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. — The lone Marine convicted in his squad's killing of two dozen unarmed civilians in one of the Iraq War's defining moments escaped jail time Tuesday after defending his order to raid homes in Haditha as a necessary a
1-25-11NYTimes--Iraqis Outraged Over Failure to Try and Convict Haditha Perps
- Anger in Iraq After Plea Bargain Over 2005 Haditha Killings - NYTimes.com
Iraqis were outraged to learn that the Marine considered the ringleader of the 2005 killings in Haditha was sentenced on Tuesday to a reduction in rank but avoided any jail time.
1-24-11WashingtonPost--Marine Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich Accused in Haditha Slaughter of Women and Children Let Off in Deal for up to 3 months in the Brig
- Marine facing up to 3 months in brig for Iraqi deaths at Haditha - The Washington Post
Military prosecutors worked for more than six years to bring Marine Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich to trial on manslaughter charges that could have sent him away to prison for life. Yesterday he was let off in a deal for up to 3 months in the brig.
12-15-11NewYorkTimes "Junkyard Gives Up Secret Accounts of Massacre of Civilians in Iraq" by Michael S. Schmidt
- Marines’ Haditha Interviews Found in Iraqi Junkyard - NYTimes.com
Hundreds of pages of interviews with Marines, once closely guarded as secrets of war, were meant to be destroyed as the last American troops prepare to leave Iraq.
12-14-11National Journal--NYTimes Reporter Stumbles on Haditha Massacre Documents in Baghdad Junkyard
- Reporter Found Classified Haditha Massacre Documents in Baghdad Junkyard - Erik Hayden, The Atlantic
In a chance incident, New York Times reporter Michael Schmidt stumbled upon hundreds pages of classified documents of U.S. Marines being interrogated about the Haditha massacre--documents that were supposed to have been destroyed but ended up strewn
Haditha Killings--Wikipedia
- Haditha killings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Haditha killings refers to the incident where 24 Iraqi men, women and children were killed by a group of United States Marines on November 19, 2005 in Haditha, a city in the western Iraqi a city in the western Iraqi province of Al Anbar.
North County Times--Captain Randy W. Stone
- Capt. Randy W. Stone
Less than three months before the Haditha killings, President George Bush recognized one of the men charged in the Haditha
War Chronicle--"Defend Our Marines"
- Defend Our Marines
Defend Our Marines | Haditha
My Lai Massacre--Wikipedia
- My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
While 26 US soldiers were charged for their actions at Mỹ Lai, only 2nd Lt. Calley, a platoon leader in Charlie Company, was convicted. Found guilty of killing 22 villagers, he was given a life sentence but served only 3.5 years under house arrest.
War Made Easy and Collateral Murder in Iraq
- War Made Easy by Norman Solomon and Collateral Murder in Iraq Courtesy of Wikileaks
April 5, 2010 WikiLeaks released cockpit video footage from a U.S. helicopter gunship in Baghdad. The footage, which documented the killing of 12 people, was released in two versions: the full, original video and an edited video. Critics of WikiLeaks
Lapham's Quarterly "The Pinkville Incident at My Lai"
- The “Pinkville” Incident - Lapham’s Quarterly
It was a notorious area, and the men of Task Force Barker had a special name for it: They called it “Pinkville.” Task Force Barker moved out from its firebase headed for “Pinkville.” Its mission: destroy the trouble spot and all of its inhabitants.
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From Wikipedia: "Newsmax Media is a conservative American news media organization founded by Christopher W. Ruddy and based in West Palm Beach, Florida. It operates the news website Newsmax.com and publishes Newsmax Magazine.
Christopher W. Ruddy started Newsmax.com on September 16, 1998, supported by a group of politically conservative investors, including the family of the late Central Intelligence Agency Director William J. Casey. Later, Richard Mellon Scaife, Ruddy's former employer at the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review and a supporter of conservative causes, invested in the fledging company.[1] One of the initial board members was author James Dale Davidson who edited a financial newsletter, Davidson's co-editor, Lord Rees-Mogg, former editor of The Times and Vice Chair of the BBC, later became chairman of Newsmax Media.[2]"
NEWSMAX? Now there's a real "unbiased" source, Will. Instead of recognizing the fact that innocents were slaughtered . . .
"On May 17, 2006, Democratic Representative John Murtha of Pennsylvania, a retired Marine colonel and critic of the war, stated at a news conference that an internal investigation had confirmed the story.[62][63][64] He was quoted as saying:
"There was no firefight, there was no IED (improvised explosive device) that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."[65]
WillStar prefers to demonize "the left" with accusations of unpatriotic calumny when, in fact, he is guilty of it himself— just another knee-jerk reactionary filed with hatred, resentment and the malicious propaganda of Rush Limbauugh.
"Of course, Mr. Deeds did not tell you that it was all a lie!"
WillStarr, Just curious, why would you say that. The NYTimes article seemed quite credible to me. What part of it did you disagree with. If you have different facts about Haditha, please come out with them.
War is hell, Ralph, and civilians do get killed. In World War Two, more civilians died than soldiers.
Barack Obama is currently presiding over the predator drones that are killing hundreds of civilians in Afghanistan, Yemen, and Pakistan, but the leftist media like the NYT ignores it, preferring to talk about unproven, old news allegations in Iraq. That way, they can blame Bush and distract attention from Obama.
Civilians are unavoidably killed in wars. The My Lai and Haditha massacres were not unavoidable. They were cold blooded murder of women and children. And the Marine Corps coverup is inexcusable. The NYTimes has covered the drone operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan fairly thoroughly. However, it's true that the mainstream media hasn't directly criticized Obama's stepped up use of drones and the inevitable civilian casualties that result from their use. More progressive media have criticized their use and criticized the Osama bin Laden operation for not bringing him back alive rather than executing him on the spot.
Haditha is an unproven allegation. Nowhere in the NYT's article does it claim that it was a deliberate murder, so why are you?
True that the NY Times article didn't make the accusation of "deliberate murder." Perhaps unnecessary, avoidable civilian casualties would be more accurate. The reporter was more cautious than I am on the subject. The article provided enough credible details to convince me that the Marine Corps covered up the incident and was more interested in avoiding publicity on an incident that had the potential of becoming another Abu Ghraib, photos and all.
"Perhaps unnecessary, avoidable civilian casualties would be more accurate."
Is it?
Prove it.
It seemed pretty clear to me from the article that the killings were avoidable and the Marine Corps covered up the facts.
And it seems crystal clear to me that you have it in for the military, and want to believe the worst.
I have nothing but respect and gratitude for our men and women who served in Iraq and are serving in the endless war in Afghanistan. I object to the Marine Corps coverup of the brutality of a few of our soldiers who needlessly killed women and children in Iraq and took pictures of themselves with the bodies as if they were trophies on a Safari in Africa, not to mention the soldiers who slaughtered more than 300 villagers in My Lai. But my greatest contempt is for our leaders who sent them to Iraq and Vietnam, the mainstream media, and the American foreign policy establishment who supported these needless and tragic wars. (FYI, I retired honorably from the Army Reserves with the rank of captain after serving on active duty and in the active reserves in the United States between the Korean and Vietnam wars.)
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson
Good work Ralph. You should be proud for your boys who sacrificed their lives in Iraq or Afganistan but these guys are just stealing that pride. Hope another Cally example will be avoided by authority and if it happen again then it will encourage future involvement with such crimes of your soldiers.
Thanks for your comment from "down under."
Hey delete this message, but your first sentence says "December 15, 2012" and I'm sure you meant 2011.
Thanks!
HAHAHAH it really shut him up when you told him you served, for another example look at the footage released by John Manning of an American helicopter deliberately machine gunning Iraqi civilians, no one has been convicted of the crime but Manning is now facing a court martial, so ridiculous, what Will fails to understand is that murderers are murderers whether they are in the army or not and justice should apply in the same way I not even harsher because those men are there representing our country and armed with our tax dollars, if they do things like this they disgrace the whole nation, life in jail is what they deserve. And if it was accidental then criminal negligence and armed manslaughter charges should be brought against them.
Camp Pendleton, Oregon--Military prosecutors worked for more than six years to bring Marine Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich to trial on manslaughter charges that could have sent him away to prison for life. Yesterday he was let off in a deal for up to 3 months in the brig.
Excellent! Justice is served, and the far left did not get their pound of flesh.
And the women and little children got what they deserved??
War is definitely hell on civilians. Blame it on those who set off the IED.
As I said, the America-hating far left did not get their pound of flesh.
Unless you just find it entertaining, Sir, then I can assure you that arguing with a closed mind such as ...one person's that I know of, is a total waste of time.
True. I waste a lot of time on the forums and banging my head against stone walls.
A closed mind would be the one that wanted a conviction despite all charges being dropped for lack of evidence.
Dereliction of Duty was the best they could come up with, despite your fervent, far-left hope for American blood.
They had no case, and neither do you!
The case was perfectly clear, there were 4 eye witnesses and his bullets were found in the corpses, where's the lack of evidence? This is just double standards.
The last Marine accused will serve no time:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/24/marine-to-ser
Sorry leftists, but you'll get no pound of flesh from America's military this time.
Fox Propaganda!
It's about justice not loyalty. More reasons for the rest of the world to hate America. This country will sacrifice yet more "flesh" because nationalistic fools think America can do no wrong.
Let me rephrase that for you WillStar, what you mean is "Sorry America but you'll get no justice (yet again) for men in the military becuase they killed foreigners so I dont care" Just like how soldiers who massacred over a hundred in Vietnam at mylai were never punished and only one man got 3 years house arrest. That is called double standars and Will you should be very ashamed of supporting it, also as written above there is no shortage of evidence he is guilty.
Typical leftists...blame America, even if there's no evidence of wrongdoing! Demand that pound of American flesh.
The evidence has been presented, and it did not stand up. Case closed.
Good for the Marines!
I'm laughing at the angry liberal weenies who wanted to see America's military punished, but lost!
You know who you are!
^_^
1-25-11NYTimes--Iraqis Outraged Over Failure to Try and Convict Haditha Perps
Anger in Iraq After Plea Bargain Over 2005 Haditha Killings - NYTimes.com
Iraqis were outraged to learn that the Marine considered the ringleader of the 2005 killings in Haditha was sentenced on Tuesday to a reduction in rank but avoided any jail time.
So you think we should have found them guilty to mollify the Iraqis?
Throw them under the bus?
No. I think we should have found them guilty because they murdered innocent women and children in violation of their duty as US Marines and the Geneva Convention. What they did, as we speak, is being used as a recruiting tool by Al Qaeda and other extremists cells all over the world.
"No. I think we should have found them guilty because they murdered innocent women and children in violation of their duty as US Marines and the Geneva Convention."
A conclusion the military court obviously does not share! Why are you so sure they're guilty? What's your inside information?
There was no trial. The facts were reported by the media and never denied. It was a whitewash by the Marine Corps. Shameful. They diddled around with the case for a couple of years or so, hoping everybody would forget about it.
Read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/world/middleeast
Actually Wuterich pled guilty and was let off with a slap on the wrist.
What does it matter Will; you'd only refute it and indulge in more bitter projections about people who disagree with your stringent views.
It was a whitewash by the Marine Corps.
According to you and few other leftists like your buddy Whiz. Sorry, but the case is closed and you lose.
All Americans lose and the Marine Corps loses.
"All Americans lose and the Marine Corps loses."
Once again, only according to you and a few other sour-grapes leftists. I see no evidence that most Americans or the Marine Corps are unhappy with the verdict.
Just you.
Why Was No One Punished for America's "My Lai" in Iraq? AlterNet
The U.S. military presence in Iraq was marked by the callous American attitude toward civilians, and the thorough lack of accountability in the military justice system....
"The Haditha massacre fits this pattern. There was a coverup by the U.S. Marine Corps, which insisted that 15 Iraqis had been killed by an IED. When reporter Tim McKirk of Time magazine was alerted to the massacre by an Iraqi human-rights group, his reporting sparked a firestorm of attention. Rep. John Murtha, a Pennsylvania Democrat and Vietnam veteran who was a reliable supporter of the military, called the massacre “cold blooded murder” and decried the pressure being put on our troops, pressure that could result in tragedies of this kind."
Just like you, Murtha was a good liberal, so he never apologized to the Marines.
The Marines owe an apology to America and Iraq.
For what? Have you forgotten that they were never found guilty?
Why do you hate the Marines?
I don't "hate the Marines." But I don't like coverups as in this case in which the Marine Corps covered up the murder of innocent women and children. Also, as I recall, the moron commandant of the Marine Corps was a vocal opponent of his commander in chief's decision to end "don't ask, don't tell."
“I take that very, very seriously,” Amos said, adding he worried that openly gay troops in Marine Corps combat units would pull focus away from fighting...Surveys in the Pentagon report showed that the majority of troops believed a change in the law would have a positive or no impact on US military effectiveness. Mullen and Secretary Gates cited these findings in recommending a repeal."
"...the Marine Corps covered up the murder of innocent women and children."
Only according to leftists like you, who angrily refuse to accept their innocence. You would rather believe them guilty! Shame on you.
Allowing the Marine Corps investigate incidents like this is about the same as having policemen investigate their own misconduct. They both protect their own. The Corps' investigation was a joke, a coverup, an embarrassment to our country. By the way you don't get far on these forums by name calling, ignorant,right wing, moron cretin.
"By the way you don't get far on these forums by name calling..."
What name calling (other than your own)?
Did you intend "angry liberal weenies," "leftists," "sour grapes leftists," "your fervent far-left hope for American blood," and so forth as compliments?
Is "ignorant,right wing, moron cretin" a compliment?
You can dish it, but you can't take it.
You still have no case, and it's over. So stop whining.
What far left site is your source this time, Wiz?
It's always "us" vs. "them" with you, Will—you're always so predictably hateful.
I think he may be one of Joe Arpaio's deputy sheriff's in Phoenix.
Learn some new terms, Wiz...'hateful' is getting old and worn out.
And learn to stay on topic. Ad hom attacks are a logical fallacy. Look it up.
Will's been programmed by the same idiots that schooled George W. and his ilk, that is, he thinks loyalty should trump everything else—including the truth, justice and the once upon a time, American way.
Murder and mayhem is okay if OUR Marines did it.
I suspect that neither The Wizard or Ralph ever served a minute of time in the Military. Their kind rarely does. I would suggest they get together, visit a nearby Marine base, and try convincing a group of Marines face to face on how right they both think they are. It is amazing to me how those who are the most vocal forget who gives them the freedom of speech they so enjoy today with no sacrifice on their part. Sad but true.
Old Poolman, so happens I served in the Army between the Korean and Vietnam wars, retiring with the rank of captain in the US Army Reserves. The Marines who killed the women and children at Haditha besmirched the reputation of the USMC and the United States in my opinion as you and WillStar are doing in this forum. You should be ashamed of yourself. Did you find Abu Ghraib entertaining also? Are you old enough to remember My Lai? How did that strike you?
Ralph,
Like all other leftists, you enjoy attacking the US military whenever possible, but I'll bet you the farm that you have never attacked the ememies of the US for any atrocities. Your ilk never does! You attack your own country, but never those who behead Americans, or torture and kill American troops.
That's why you should hang your head in shame.
I know your type all too well. You are willing to forgive the enemy for anything, but never the US military. In this instance, the Marines have exonerated those charged, but you have the audacity to convict them anyway, simply because you are another far left zealot.
You are right. I'm a big fan of Adolph Hitler, Tojo, Stalin and Egg fu Yong.
Ralph, I guessed wrong then. You and I must have served about the same time, which would make us about the same age. I have no doubt things happen in war time that should never have happened. War really is hell and should be avoided unless that is the only solution. Of course I remember Mi Lai, and that was a disgrace. Thank you for your service Mr. Deeds.
No big deal. I'll check out some of your Hubs. I see you're from Arizona. I'm headed for Tucson next week to see my brother and sister. A little warm weather will be good for a change. It's about 10 degrees here in Detroit right now.
For the record, Poolman, I served in the US Air Force (Tactical Air Command) from '69 to '76 and was honorably discharged; so I'm very familiar with war, sacrifice and what it does to people.
Please don't make assumptions that are really more projections of your own bias and bigotry—I expect that kind of knee-jerk ignorance from Will Star, but your post surprises me because I gave you more credit.
Moreover, try to see the distinctions among the military values of loyalty, honor and justice. It's obvious Will Starr can't, nor can anyone who doesn't understand that the actions in Haditha, Abu Ghraib and Mi Lai helped destroy the honor and prestige of the American military, the U.S. and our reputation around the world.
Anyone who has been in combat knows the stress and the exigencies of war, but if you view this video you will see directly how some of these soldiers dishonored this country and the brave men and women who sacrificed their lives for it.
Loyalty doesn't trump everything else . . . unless you're an ignorant fool who doesn't know any better.
Hm. Ralph, you and I have long had an unspoken agreement to kind of just "let each other's work be", and I respect that--so if you want to delete this, I'll totally understand. Fair is fair.
That said, it seems to me that the particular case under discussion...well, truth be told, I'd be hesitant to judge it one way or the other. Obviously, BTAT is involved here, that being an acronym for "Both Things Are True".
That is, if the Marine coverup is fact, then yes, we've got a serious problem. And if it's not (and smear campaigns are not totally unknown in this less than perfect world), we have a serious problem in the other direction.
MY problem, though, is that I'm hesitant to accept EITHER the New York Times OR Newsmax as gospel. I've seen them both be right, and I've seen them both be wrong. With something like this controversy boiling, what I'd really like is a serious followup investigation from the top (i.e. the White House on down).
Not that anything of that sort is likely. Heck, we as a nation haven't even sorted out Fast and Furious all that well yet.
It does trouble me to see the emotions running this high on BOTH sides in these Comments. It looks like pretty much everyone posting here has military service. I'm certain every one of us honors our military as a whole, and I'm equally certain none of us condones cruel, wanton behavior from anyone, uniformed or otherwise.
(*sigh*) Guess I'm simply somber tonight. Just finished reading GABBY (by Gabrielle Giffords and Mark Kelly), then struggled to write a book review Hub on it, and the "humanity transcends politics" mood is still upon me.
Bottom line, I'd simply like to see the truth about Hidatha "out there" in a manner so convincing that ALL of us could say, "Yes, this is actually how it went down." If we had that, I doubt we'd have much argument on this page.
But that, unfortunately, is naught but wishful thinking.
Thanks for your comment. The facts would be clearer if there had been a trial. I suspect that the Marine Corps dragged its feet in the hope that the publicity would die down before letting the Hadigtha 7 off the hook. I've found the NYTimes news pages to be quite accurate. They are pretty good at separating their news from their opinion pages. My experience has been that in the corporate, government, church, hospital, drug company, banking and military worlds organizations' investigations of themselves often aren't very reliable.
3-11-12NYTimes--A Massacre of Afghan Civillians by Berserk U.S. Soldier
American Is Held After Shooting of Civilians in Afghanistan - NYTimes.com
A U.S. service member walked out of a military base on Sunday and opened fire on three nearby houses, killing 16 civilians, including several children, local villagers and provincial officials said.
And your point is...?
Leave it to Will to be oblivious to the obvious!
Will, and your point is?
WillStarr Level 8 Commenter 5 months ago
The truth:
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/
And how does the left feel about our great country? Here you are:
"A front page article in the December 15, 2012, NY Times about the massacre of 24 civilians on November 19, 2005, in Haditha by U.S. Marines did not make me proud to be an American"
Of course, Mr. Deeds did not tell you that it was all a lie!